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Offline Warlord

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UPDATED 12/12 - Characters that should be in the Army book
« on: December 05, 2007, 06:19:01 AM »
Along the same lines of ‘Provincial Traits’, I decided to compile some thoughts I had in regards to characters that should actually be in the Empire Armybook, that were missed opportunities. These in general work off a framework of the existing characters, to make them more unique – similar to Kindreds in a WE book I guess…

Feedback / suggestions welcome.

CAPTAIN
The Captain may be ‘upgraded’ in one of the following ways:
-  Hunt Master
-  Witch Hunter
-  Seneschal

HUNT MASTER
A Hunt Master is an expert woodsman of the Empire whom has gained reputation for his skills in tracking and killing the nastiest of beasts, as well as leading parties of scouts and huntsmen into the deepest of forests.

A Captain may be upgraded to a Hunt Master for 20 points
Equipment: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Hunters Cape.
May not be equipped with any additonal mundane or magical armour
May be equipped with a Hochland Long Rifle for 20 points
May not ride a Warhorse or Pegasus
May not carry the army’s Battle Standard

Special Rules:
HUNTER - a Hunter can scout. He can only join units of Archers, Huntsmen or Free Company. A Hunter can never be the Army General.

HUNTERS CAPE - a hunter carries a cape which he often uses to conceal his presence while hunting his prey. A Hunters cape confers a -1 to hit penalty on the hunter for missile (magic and mundane) attacks, and also adds an additional +1 to his Armour Save against missile attacks.

HUNT MASTER - Any unit of Huntsmen he joins may upgrade their bows to Longbows for +1 points, or to Handguns for +2 points.

WITCH HUNTER
With the taint of Chaos spreading across the Empire, Witch Hunters are finding more and more work driving out insidious cults and burning heretics, all in the name of Sigmar. For better or worse, they are becoming accepted in society, and their stirring speeches are know to place both fear and hope in the hearts of people across the Empire.

A Captain may be upgraded to a Witch Hunter for 30 points
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Pistol
May not be equipped with a shield
May not ride a Pegasus
May not carry the army’s Battle Standard

Special Rules:
BLESSED WEAPONS
The weapons of the Witch Hunter have been specially prepared to battle the forces of evil.
All Witch Hunter attacks (close combat and missile) count as magical. Furthermore, the Witch Hunter also benefits from killing blow in challenges against any champions or characters from 'Evil' Armies (Hordes and Beasts of Chaos, Skaven, Undead and Chaos Dwarves).

UNQUENCHABLE ZEAL
The Witch Hunter and any unit he joins may re-roll any failed fear or terror tests as well as a reroll for any break tests that require insane courage to hold.

WE HAVE FOUND A WITCH. SHOULD WE BURN HER?
If you choose a Witch Hunter, the number of wizards you take may not exceed the number of Witch Hunters in your army. Furthermore, if you take a Witch Hunter, a Wizard Lord can never be your General.

SENESCHAL
Grand Masters are not always available to lead all contingents of knights from their order, as knights may be campaigning across multiple fronts. In these situations, a Seneschal may be sent in place of the Grand Master to lead the order to victory.

A Captain may be upgraded to a Seneschal for 20 points
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Full Plate Armour
May not be equipped with any mundane or magic missile weapons
May not ride a Pegasus
If riding a Warhorse, must equip it with barding.

Special Rules:
KNIGHTLY VIRTUE
A Seneschal may never join a unit of Archers, Huntsmen, Crossbowmen or Handgunners.

KNIGHTLY ORDER
A Seneschal is immune to panic, as is any unit he joins.

SECOND IN COMMAND
A Seneschal follows orders only from other members of his Order. If a Grandmaster is present in the army, the Seneschal and any unit he accompanies will treat the Grandmaster as the General for the purpose of leadership tests, instead of the designated General. If a Grandmaster is not present, a Seneschal shall use his own leadership.


WARRIOR PRIEST
The Warrior Priest may ‘worship’ one of the following gods:
-  Sigmar
-  Ulric
-  Morr
-  Taal
-  Manann
-  Myrmydia
-  Verena
-  Ranald

Notice the only difference is the prayers that are cast, and the equipment available. All other rules are the same.

WARRIOR PRIEST OF SIGMAR
Equipment: as per Empire Armybook

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF SIGMAR
as per Empire Armybook

WARRIOR PRIEST OF ULRIC
A Warrior Priest may worship Ulric for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Wolf Cloak

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF ULRIC
- Crush the Weak
Ulric’s followers respect strength, and despise the weak, and Ulric rewards this.

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins gains +1 Strength on the charge. Remains in Play.
- Wolf Howl
The howl of the White Wolf is said to cause fear in the hearts of men and beast alike

Warrior Priest causes immediate terror test for all enemy units within 6 inches.
- Spirit of the Wolf
The hungry hunting nature of the wolf drives on the followers of Ulric

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins may roll an extra dice when pursuing an enemy broken by combat, and discard the lowest. Remains in Play.
- Wolf Speed
Ulric sees it fit to bestow the form of a wolf on his champion.

A selected character on foot within 12 inches gains Movement 9.
- Fury of the Wolf
The Warrior Priest lashes out at his enemies with the fury of the Wolf God himself

Any enemy models in base to base with the warrior priest or his unit take a S4 hit.

WOLF CLOAK
+1 Armour Save against shooting.

WARRIOR PRIEST OF MORR
A Warrior Priest may worship Morr for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Mace
May not take any additional mundane weapons.
May be equipped with Full Plate Armour for 8pts.

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF MORR
- Morr’s Stare
When faced with the emissary of Morr, one can't help but hesitate to consider their own mortality

One enemy unit within 12 inches cannot do anything their following turn (unless Immune to Psychology). Remains in play.
- Morr’s Call
The eerie call of Death himself can make all but the bravest of warriors flee for their lives

Any enemy units within 6 inches take an immediate panic test (unless Immune to Psychology).
- Morr’s Touch
Those that are victim to the violation of the sanctity of death, Morr reaches out to take them back with him

Any undead models in base to base with the Warrior Priest take a S3 hit with no armour saves.
- Morr’s Protection
The devout champions of Morr in this realm have his blessing

A character or champion within 12 inches is immune to Killing Blow and Poison. Remains in Play.
- Death awaits
Morr does not fear those that cheat death and disturb the peace of others. On the contrary, they fear him.

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins are immune to fear caused by undead armies. Those units that cause Terror will only cuase fear. Remains in Play.

MACE
Hand Weapon. Bestows a -2 Armour Save modifier.

WARRIOR PRIEST OF TAAL
A Warrior Priest may worship Taal for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Staff
May not take any additional mundane weapons.

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF TAAL
- The Birds and the Bees
Even the smallest of Taal’s subjects can band together to defend themselves

A unit anywhere on the Table (within LOS) takes D6 S1 attacks.
- Nature’s Call
A ghostly vision or sounds can be heard from the nearest wood or hill. Distracted by the haunting sight or sound, enemy formations fall apart.

An enemy unit within 12 inches (unless immune to psychology) must in make an immediate move towards their nearest terrain feature (within LOS). If currently in a terrain feature, cannot move or shoot in their following turn.
- The Beasts Devotion
A mount its rider form a unique bond. Taal calls forth to the beast, and strengthens the animals devotion

A Monstrous steed within 12 inches (Friend or Foe) will automatically be hit by missiles (rather than randomizing between rider and mount). Remains in Play.
- All of Taals creatures
All creatures great and small are loved by Taal.

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins are immune to fear and terror caused by a monstrous mount. Remains in play.
- Master of Fauna
The calming voice of the Priest of Taal can calm even the most terrified of animals

A mounted fleeing friendly single model or unit within 6 inches automatically rallies.

STAFF
Staff bestows either +2S to the bearer, or +2 Armour Save. Priest must designate at the beginning of each round of close combat.

WARRIOR PRIEST OF MANANN
A Warrior Priest may worship Manann for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Trident
May not take any additional mundane weapons.

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF MANANN
- Tidal Wave
A huge wave of water is projected from the Warrior Priests body knocking over warriors and slamming them to the ground

Measure a 6 inch line from the Warrior Priest. Any models under this line take a S5 hit. Any units hit that use gunpowder can no longer use these weapons for the rest of the battle
- Southerly Wind
The gentle southerly wind boosts morale of the troops, as their glorious banners flap in the wind

All units within 6 inches of the Warrior Priest that have Standard Bearers gain +1 Leadership. Remains in Play.
- Northern Wind
This strong gust of wind makes firing anything but the strongest of firearms all but impossible

All enemy units within 12 inches of the Warrior Priest cannot fire their weapons (unless they are war machines). Remains in Play.
- Manann’s Mist
Sailors often pray to Manann to guide them through thick and heavy mists

If the table has any water feature a 6 inch thick mist appears all around it blocking line of sight. If there are no water features on the board, a 6 inch thick mist appears around the warrior priest (not his unit). Treat the mist as though it is difficult terrain for both movement (chariots don't take damage) and line of sight purposes. Remains in Play.
- Blessing of Manann
At sea, there are Magic Creatures that will seduce and prey on hapless sailors. Manann blesses his worshippers, protecting them from the creatures' evil influence

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins gain Magic Resistance 1.

TRIDENT
The Trident is counted as a Halberd in all respects.

WARRIOR PRIEST OF MYRMIDIA
A Warrior Priest may worship Myrmidia for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Spear
May not take any additional mundane weapons.
May ride a Pegasus for +50pts

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF MYRMIDIA
- Hold the Line
The warriors around the Warrior Priest are inspired by his determination and conviction of the battle plan.

Add +1 combat resolution to each combat taking place within 3 inches of the Warrior Priest or unit he has joined. Remains in Play.
- Battle Formations
Myrmidia whispers in the Priest’s ear the key to defeating the approaching foe.

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins may make an immediate reform (only if not in combat).
- Feigned Retreat
A common effective tactic used by followers of Myrmidia is to feign retreat, often leading enemies into traps.

Any unit that flees through the Warrior Priest or any unit he joins does not cause panic and automatically rallies in their following turn. Remains in Play.
- Superior Manoeuvring
A priest is exceptional at co-ordinating and directing troops to weaknesses in the enemy line.

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins that has detachments can use all detachment special rules up to 6 inches away, rather than 3 inches. Remains in Play.
- Myrmidia's Plan
For a few moments, Myrmidia's plan is crystal clear in the eyes of commanding officers. This gives them the confidence to proceed as planned.

A selected champion within 12 inches of the Warrior Priest gains +1 Ld. This cannot equal greater than the General’s Leadership. Remains in Play.

PRIEST OF RANALD
A Warrior Priest may worship Ranald for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon
May not take any additional mundane or magical weapons. If during the course of the battle the Priest acquires magical weapons, he may not use them.

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF RANALD
- me’ lucky charms
Worshippers of Ranald often carry around lucky trinkets with them

Priest and any unit he joins gain a 6+ Ward Save. Remains in Play.
- What Flag?
Nothing pleases Ranald more than a crafty prank

The Priest and any unit he joins, the next time they get into combat, will not fight; however the enemy can. The Priest's unit will lose combat by -4 (unmodifiable). If broken, rather than dropping their own banner, they will steal the enemy banner (which counts as a banner won through breaking an enemy unit for the purpose of calculating Victory Points).
This spell can be dispelled by the enemy in their phase, however is not dispelled if the Priest casts another prayer.
- It’s my lucky day
The luck of Ranald allows his children to escape unharmed

Priest and any unit he joins may roll an extra dice when fleeing, and discard the lowest. Remains in Play.
- Don’t like fighting
Ranald does not like fighting, and neither do his priests

Priest has a 3+ Ward Save as long as he does not fight. Remains in play.
- Gotchya Wallet
Stealing something from someone who is ungrateful to the fortune they have received is definitely not something frowned upon by Ranald

Priest randomly takes a magic item from a selected enemy character in base to base.

WARRIOR PRIEST OF VERENA
A Warrior Priest may worship Verena for 10 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Greatsword
May not take any additional mundane weapons.

Special Rules:
PRAYERS OF VERENA
- Scholarly knowledge
Verena has learnt the enemies secrets and passes on her knowledge to the believers

The enemy must reveal all magical items within 12 inches of the Warrior Priest.
- Guardian of the Righteous
Verena ensures that those that are performing her work are protected harm.

One friendly champion or character (including the Warrior Priest) within 12 inches benefits from Regeneration. Remains in Play.
- Duel of Retribution
Often if facts of a case are missing, the accuser will duel with the accused, and Verena will bless her champion. 

One friendly champion or character (including the Warrior Priest) with 12 inches, if fighting a challenge benefits from Killing Blow. Remains in Play.
- Vengeance for the Bereaved
Verena bestows the gift of vengeance upon her followers, so that they may enact final punishment for the guilty.

Warrior Priest and any unit he joins gain Frenzy. Remains in Play.
- Final Judgement
Guilt is assigned, and judgement has been made.

One enemy in base-to-base with the Warrior Priest takes one S10 hit.

ENGINEER
The Engineer may ‘specialise’ in one of the following fields:
-  Field Weapons
-  Experimental Weapons
-  War Machines
-  Steam Tanks
An Engineer will still retain the ‘Extra Crewman’ rule as per the Empire Armybook.

FIELD WEAPONS
An Engineer may be upgraded to a Field Weapons Specialist for 5 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon, Handgun, Brace of Pistols and Repeater Handgun
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons
Cannot ride the Mechanical Steed

Special Rules:
FIELD WEAPONS
Being a specialist in the common gunpowder weapons of the Empire, the Engineer has assisted in calibrating their weapons before the battle.
Any unit the Engineer joins gains +1 to hit as long as he uses the same weapon as they do in the shooting phase.

EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS
An Engineer may be upgraded to an Experimental Weapons Specialist for 5 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol, Grenade Launching Blunderbuss, Hochland Long Rifle and Pidgeon Bombs
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons
Cannot ride a Warhorse

Special Rules:
EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS
The Engineer has spent his time in the Engineering School inventing and testing new weapons. He is an expert in their usage and best applications, and demonstrating them in battle should hopefully increase their usage in the Empire army.
The Engineer can use any 2 of these weapons in the shooting phase.

WAR MACHINES
An Engineer may be upgraded to a 'War Machines' Specialist for 5 points.
Can also be upgraded to have the 'Repairman' special ability
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Pistol
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons
Cannot ride a Warhorse or Mechanical Steed

Special Rules:
WAR MACHINES
Specialising in War Machines, the Engineer has calibrated all war machines before battle, and is able to easily suggest slight adjustments throughout the battle to increase the accuracy of these might machines of war. 
Any one War Machine within 3 inches of the Engineer can use the Engineer’s re-roll ability in the situations described in the Empire Armybook (Re-roll misfire for cannon, reroll scatter OR misfire for Mortar) as well as re-rolling on the misfire chart for the Helblaster.
REPAIRMAN
Furthermore, the Engineer has brought along his personal toolbox, allowing him to fix most War Machines on the spot, should they take damage through the course of the battle.
The Engineer, for one shooting phase may forfeit using his WAR MACHINES Special Rule, and instead may repair any 1 war machine within 3 inches. All wounds for that War Machine are restored, however it cannot fire that turn. If in the previous turn, the War Machine suffered a MISFIRE of "Cannot fire this turn or next" the engineers repairs will incur no additional penalty.

STEAM TANKS
An Engineer may be upgraded to a Steam Tank Specialist for 5 points.
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Repeater Pistol
Cannot take any additional Experimental Weapons

Special Rules:
STEAM TANKS
Spending the better part of his term at the Engineering School pouring over plans of the Steam Tank, and making constant repairs to existing Steam Tanks, there are few who can match this specialist in his knowledge of how these metal behemoths work.
OLD RULE:
If the Engineer moves in base-to-base contact with a Steam Tank, he can restore 1 wound per turn to the tank. The tank may not be in close combat. This wound is restored at the end of the movement phase. He can even add additional wounds on to the tank. Only one Engineer can repair one steam tank at any one time.

NEW RULE
The Engineer is not deployed as a seperate character, it is assumed he is now helping out inside the hull of the tank. Each Empire shooting phase, the Engineer can expend 1 steam point to repair 1 wound back onto the steam tank. Furthermore, neither the Steam Tank or Engineer may shoot in any way that round.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2007, 01:45:27 AM by Warlord »
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline CaptScott

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 06:36:29 AM »
Awesome idea.

Hunt Master should cost a little more, the hunters cape alone would be around a 25 point magic item, and the ability to upgrade a units weapons at no additional cost is uber-powerful.

I would say perhaps keep it at 10, but put a price on the cape (25 points) as well as 1-2 points for each archer/huntsmen upgraded.

As for Warrior priest upgrades some sort of Commissar (like IG 40K) or inquisition model could be good - if a unit panics the commissar can execute the unit champion in order to restore order.
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Offline Wyzer1

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 06:37:58 AM »
Wow, very nice list Warlord  :-D

very well written, and only one thing (i noticed anyways) that I think could use a little "adjustment"

Under Hunt Master, any unit of Archers can upgrade their bows to handguns for free?

Sounds a little abusive to me, Skirmishing handgunners (think a unit of 20 of these guys... scary)

Maybe leave the (Upgrade to Longbows) for free and change the (Upgrade to Handguns) for +2 points per model and change the unit size to 5-10? Or perhaps limit them to 0-2

Otherwise I like the list alot...


Just another idea, if you did the Warrior Priest... You could also do one for the Arch Lector (High Inquisitor?  :roll: )

 :::cheers:::
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Offline BAWTRM

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 07:43:14 AM »
I think the Witch Hunter is way too cheap.

A lone Priest is not very usefull ina a low magic army except for the Hatred ability he has, but wait! You can get the same cheaper, with better combat stats and better equipment choices! And then I'm not even adding Unquenchable Zeal (which is a little unclear because it talks about break tests as well, I take it it only applies to insane courage needed when in risk of auto-breaking from a Fear causing enemy?).

Furthermore I don't see why the Huntmaster's cloak would also work in CC (Ok I can see the gaming reason as it would be pretty lame if it only applied vs shooting for a character which is guaranteed to be in a unit almost all the time) as you can get a guy in full camouflage outfit in front of you but it's still pretty clear where you should hack and slash to bring him down.

I do like all these customisation rules though, I wonder what your Priest will look like, and maybe you'll think up a Wizard upgrade for an Ice Wizard?
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Offline FR1DAY

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 10:14:28 AM »
Great stuff Warlord.

For the huntmaster I'd agree with the others that it is too cheap. The 10 pts for scout and -1 to hit shooting. No combat modifier. Can be armed with a long rifle at +20pts. I'd leave out the unit upgrades i think. the rest the same.

Witch hunter, i agree with BAWTRM, far too cheap. I'd put in a no FPA caveat on him. Allow him a brace of pistols and a hand weapon. I like the flaming attack rule. The hatred should only apply to milita and archers I think. No sure on the fear one. I like the flavour of it but the rule doesn't do it for me. Maybe make it like the icon of magnus rule. Total cost 40pts. Mostly from the icon rule. Also add the caveat of may not be used in a army lead by a wizard lord and the number of wizards in the force cannot be more than the number of witch hunters. They may be licenced but you've got to keep an eye on them afterall. That will limit their abuse. They would be great against undead but limit you magic defence at the expense of strengthning the battleline.

The seneschal rules seem well balanced.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 12:20:00 AM »
Excellent feedback guys, thanks. I have updated my list in the first post.

I have also added some Priests into the mix - more yet to come
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 03:43:16 AM by Warlord »
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline offroadfury88

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 09:54:13 PM »
I think the priest of Morr should be more exspensive for having the killing blow special rule, but the rest seem fine to me.
Happiness never decreases by being shared.
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Offline Michael W

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 10:49:30 PM »
Hot.  If I had time, I'd put in a few thoughts...they'll have to wait until later this evening, though. 

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Offline Qrab

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 03:12:22 AM »
I like the initial characters, but I'm not diggin' the priests.

Offline Burek

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 09:09:39 AM »
Love the priests of Ranald!
Imagine this:1 unit with 3 priests:
1st casts "What Flag?"
2nd casts "Gotcha wallet"
3rd casts "It's my lucky day"
 :icon_mrgreen:
Take magic items,and get the hell outta dodge!

Offline Warlord

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 01:02:07 PM »
Love the priests of Ranald!
Imagine this:1 unit with 3 priests:
1st casts "What Flag?"
2nd casts "Gotcha wallet"
3rd casts "It's my lucky day"
 :icon_mrgreen:
Take magic items,and get the hell outta dodge!

I really like the Priest of Ranald too. The god of luck and tricky - these rules I wrote were fun to make.

But come on everyone, gimme some feedback!
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Helborg

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 05:12:25 PM »
I love the priests of Morr extremely effective against pitiful goblins  :::cheers:::. A great effort and some cool feels I was kinda angry that they only had sigmarite prayers the prayers didn't suit the other gods  :eusa_clap:


Sanj
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Offline Mystic Force

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 05:54:28 PM »
I love the priest of Ranald, we need some more magic items associated with him too, for some one who wants some randomness without an Orc army.
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Offline offroadfury88

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 08:30:05 PM »
Why would a priest of Rananld go to war?

I do like the rest of the priest though, Mannan especially.

I'm not to keen of the upgrades for the Captain. I would never take the Hunt master, he seems kinda useless and just a way to get a HLR on another guy with bs 5.  Nor do I like the witch hunter (since it just seems to be filling the fetish Empire players have with them these days).  the Seneshal seems fine to me.

no offense to your efforts though :blush: 
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 -The Buddha

An act of kindness surpasses a thousand prayers
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Offline JGraham

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2007, 04:37:07 PM »
WITCH HUNTER
With the taint of Chaos spreading across the Empire, Witch Hunters are finding more and more work driving out insidious cults and burning heretics, all in the name of Sigmar. For better or worse, they are becoming accepted in society, and their stirring speeches are know to place both fear and hope in the hearts of people across the Empire.

A Captain may be upgraded to a Witch Hunter for 30 points
Equipment: Hand Weapon and Pistol
May not be equipped with Full Plate Armour
May not ride a Pegasus
May not carry the army’s Battle Standard
Sounds good to me.

Quote
Special Rules:
BURN THE HERETICS!
All close combat attacks by the Witch Hunter count as flaming.

Certainly not a bad rule, but not one that would get folks to take the witch hunter.  How often is flaming useful?  Treekin, Treemen, and TK characters?

Overall, I'd suggest changing the flaming rule to something more characterful and useful.  How about:

BLESSED WEAPONS
The weapons of the Witch Hunter have been specially prepared to battle the forces of evil.  All Witch Hunter attacks from non-magical weapons count as magical and have Killing Blow against Daemons, Undead, and Forest Spirits.  This applies to close combat and ranged attacks.  The Witch Hunter can always chose to use non-magical weapons at the start of any close combat, even if armed with a magical weapon.

This rule would let the Witch Hunter excel at what they are supposed to do best - routing out and destroying evil.  Even against undead, daemons, etc. it wouldn't be overpowering, but would add something to give their opponent a bit of a pause.  It might also be good to include Wizards in the list of enemies who can be KBed by blessed weapons, though perhaps not.

Quote
RABBLE RAISER
Any unit joined by a Witch Hunter will hate all enemies. A witch hunter may not join a unit that has the ‘State Troops’ special rule.

I don't love this one.  Hatred is the special ability of priests, and it would be good to not have any overlap between the two.  I'm also not sure the no state troops rule is necessary.  Wouldn't a witch hunter just as likely be on their own, or be lurking around (not necessarily leading) any unit that's handy?  Couldn't a witch hunter convince the civic authorities to lend them some of the local garrison?

Quote
UNQUENCHABLE ZEAL
If the Witch Hunter finds himself in contact with the forces of Chaos (Chaos, Skaven, Chaos Dwarves) or Undead, then the Witch Hunter and any unit he joins may re-roll any failed fear or terror tests as well as a reroll for any break tests that require insane courage to hold.
This seems like it could more easily be represented by having the witch hunter cause fear.  It would serve the dual purpose of reflecting the "fearsome reputation" the witch hunters have, as well as making the unit the witchhunter joins immune to fear and partially immune to terror.  As written the rule seems overly complicated.

Quote
WE HAVE FOUND A WITCH. SHOULD WE BURN HER?
If you choose a Witch Hunter, the number of wizards you take may not exceed the number of Witch Hunters in your army. Furthermore, if you take a Witch Hunter, a Wizard Lord can never be your General.

I like it!


To sum, I'd suggest:
Equipment Restrictions - keep 'em
BURN THE HERETICS 
BLESSED WEAPONS 
RABBLE RAISER  Hatred is for Warrior Priests!
UNQUENCHABLE ZEAL The rule seems overly complicated, and better represented as:
FEAR
WE HAVE FOUND A WITCH. SHOULD WE BURN HER?  Keep it!

Re: point cost, heroes of Nurgle pay what, 40 points for fear and an extra wound? 30 points sounds fair for fear and some special attacks against a particular foe.

If Warhammer Online proves popular, we might actually see rules for Witch Hunters in FB one day.

Great work!
Jim

Offline Victor

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2007, 05:27:36 PM »
Where is the representive for Myrmidia ?!!  :closed-eyes:

Offline Wyzer1

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2007, 05:33:01 PM »
Where is the representive for Myrmidia ?!!  :closed-eyes:
At home cooking and feeding the children





 :engel:

Nice list Warlord, keeps getting better and better
Long time Wood Elf and Empire player with newly acquired High Elves

Offline Warlord

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2007, 02:01:27 AM »
To sum, I'd suggest:
Equipment Restrictions - keep 'em
BURN THE HERETICS 
BLESSED WEAPONS 
RABBLE RAISER  Hatred is for Warrior Priests!
UNQUENCHABLE ZEAL The rule seems overly complicated, and better represented as:
FEAR
WE HAVE FOUND A WITCH. SHOULD WE BURN HER?  Keep it!

I both agree and disagree with some of these.

I have updated the character in the areas suggested... although not exactly as you described.

I love the priest of Ranald, we need some more magic items associated with him too, for some one who wants some randomness without an Orc army.

He was great fun to write - a lot of the prayers just came naturally.

Why would a priest of Ranald go to war?
He wouldn't. But he may have been stealing from some soldiers, and got caught in the middle of a conflict. Who knows. They are tricksters afterall...

I do like the rest of the priest though, Mannan especially.
What in particular do you like about him?

I'm not to keen of the upgrades for the Captain. I would never take the Hunt master, he seems kinda useless and just a way to get a HLR on another guy with bs 5.  Nor do I like the witch hunter (since it just seems to be filling the fetish Empire players have with them these days).  the Seneshal seems fine to me.

Thats your choice. I see it more as having the ability to have a hero level character in a unit of scouts. Most other armies that have scouts allow it - so why can't we?
And the witch Hunter is absolutely to satisfy that fetish. But you should also question why wasn't he already satisfied? He has a place in Empire Armies, however you dn't have to take him if you don't want to.

Where is the representive for Myrmidia ?!!  :closed-eyes:

Added. As well as Warrior Priest of Taal, and my Engineer upgrades.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 04:17:18 AM by Warlord »
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Michael W

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Re: UPDATED - Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2007, 05:00:44 AM »
Two thoughts on the new Engineers:

a) The War Machine Engineer's ability to grant BS to a Helblaster w/in 3 inches looks a might over-powered.  He's supposed to grant his BS 'cause he's actually manning and aiming the machine; reserve the BS for if he's actually joined the crew only.

b) The Steam Tank Engineer's ability to grant extra wounds to the Steam Tank doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  However, I like the idea of field repairs.  When does he return the wound? (ie, end of movement, start of shooting, etc...just because it might make a difference, and better to have it answered before hand).
Let them taste Reikland steel!
----------------------------

Offline Warlord

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Re: UPDATED - Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2007, 05:26:16 AM »
Two thoughts on the new Engineers:

Fixed as per your suggestions (wasn;t sure about that Helblaster one...)

I have also added the Warrior Priest of Verena.

Come on people, gimme some feedback!!
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: UPDATED - Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2007, 09:08:33 AM »
I don't really like the idea of warrior priests of anything but the angry three (Sigmar, Ulric, Myrmmidia). It just doesn't seem right. Nevertheless, the rules you've made look like they would be fun to use.

Please, no scythe for the priest of Morr! It's not associated with Morr in any direct way, and is not in character for his priests.

Why can't witch hunters wear full plate? It's part of the required trappings in WFRP (V1).

Not even light armour for huntmasters? Why?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 09:11:31 AM by rufus sparkfire »
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline offroadfury88

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Re: Actual Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2007, 09:58:49 PM »
Why would a priest of Ranald go to war?
He wouldn't. But he may have been stealing from some soldiers, and got caught in the middle of a conflict. Who knows. They are tricksters afterall...

Yeah I guess, there could be better warrior priests though. Like Myrmmidia

I do like the rest of the priest though, Mannan especially.
What in particular do you like about him?

I like how fluffy he is, like the water spells the trident and he just seems to work in general, you know what I'm saying?

I'm not to keen of the upgrades for the Captain. I would never take the Hunt master, he seems kinda useless and just a way to get a HLR on another guy with bs 5.  Nor do I like the witch hunter (since it just seems to be filling the fetish Empire players have with them these days).  the Seneshal seems fine to me.

Thats your choice. I see it more as having the ability to have a hero level character in a unit of scouts. Most other armies that have scouts allow it - so why can't we?
And the witch Hunter is absolutely to satisfy that fetish. But you should also question why wasn't he already satisfied? He has a place in Empire Armies, however you dn't have to take him if you don't want to.

Eh, yeah but that dosnt really mean we need to have a hero that can scout. Since we still have to take the huntsmen in numbers of ten. That unit coupled with the edtion of a weaker character is just easy victory points in a army that realies on denying victory points.  But we already have a great warrior priest and a lord level warrior priest, it just seems like he is low on the list of things that the Empire army needs.

Happiness never decreases by being shared.
 -The Buddha

An act of kindness surpasses a thousand prayers
 -Sa'di

Offline Patch

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Re: UPDATED - Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2007, 11:03:47 PM »
What about Priests of Shallya? Sure, they wouldn't really be in the thick of it, but spells of healing, calming and anti-adverse psychology would be theirs...
The (less than) triumphant return...

Offline cisse

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Re: UPDATED - Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2007, 11:12:28 PM »
What about Priests of Shallya? Sure, they wouldn't really be in the thick of it, but spells of healing, calming and anti-adverse psychology would be theirs...
You said it, they wouldn't be in the thick of it.

Actually, the name and profile of "warrior priest" is not suited for a lot of the deities above. Sure, Sigmar and Ulric and even (when the need is high) Myrmidia, Verena and Manan, are gods that'd encourage their priests to be able to defend themselves and their cult if need be, but a priest of Ranald? Or of Shallya? Surely, T4, A2 and WS4 doesn't really fit these characters. Some of these priests would rather benfit from a wizard-like profile I think.
cisse

No matter how fast you run, your ass will always be in front of me...

Offline farmer

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Re: UPDATED - Characters that should be in the Army book
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2007, 11:53:41 PM »
I like the engineers rules  :icon_biggrin:  it makes them worth taking. I would like to bring up one point. I like the fact that the engineer can repair the Steam Tank out in the field. However, I feel taking the Steam Tank beyond its starting wounds is a little over powering.
"We fight them with our steel, we fight them with our courage, but above all we fight them with our faith in Sigmar!"

(Magnus the Pious outside the gates of Kislev)