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Author Topic: Ships  (Read 77232 times)

Offline ekilday

  • Posts: 84
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Ships
« on: October 09, 2008, 08:17:14 PM »
I plan on making ships for my empire army and for an orc army and wondered what type of ships were used during the Renaissance?
Edward Kilday
General of Sigmar

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Ships
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 08:36:58 PM »
Well, you got the karaks and caravells, such vessels as Columbus used. And then the galleons came in the later 16th century.
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Florian Geyer

  • Posts: 163
Re: Ships
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 08:50:12 PM »
Right, maritime history isn't really my area of expertice but perhaps others can fill in and/or correct.

The first thing that should be said is that it depends of where you are. Different kinds of galleys were widely used in the Mediterranean, but not in the Baltic Sea or the Atlantic. Spain and Portugal were probably the most advanced countries when it came to naval technology at the time and had Caravels and Galleons, both of which were developed from the Carrack, which perhaps would be what one could expect that the northen German states used.

Obviously sailing has been around since pretty much forever but I don't see orcs using too advanced developments of it, if at all. Heavy galleys would seem fitting to me. Different kinds of square-rigged ships could work as well, perhaps long ships.

GW had a game for naval battles back in the day, Man O' War, might be worth checking out for inspiration.
Tights and puffs are for real men, only pansys and women wear skirts and dresses.

Offline Zarkdon

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Re: Ships
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 09:35:38 PM »
The fighting style of ships in the 15th-16th centuries were more along the lines of boarding then cannon bombardment. The Spanish armada in 1588 had if I remember right only two or three shots for their cannon and where planning on boarding English ships. As the 17th century got going ships started to use artillery more until you get to the battle ship in the late 1800's
"Yours in not to question how or why, yours is but to do or die."

Preceptor of the Knights of the Yellow Streak before their failed feartest outside of Holdensburg

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 03:56:53 AM »
SHIPS!  :smile2:

Historically, what they said.  I recommend the Wickapedia article on Galleons, the one on Carracks and along the way you should encounter a link to the Mary Rose's site as well.  All will provide a great overview and some good ideas.

In Warhammer terms I spent some time yesterday just browsing all the ship building articles in the B&P. There's lots.  The most recent was titled Ogre ships or something like that.

Do you have a General's Compendium or the White Dwarfs that featured ship battles? Lots of pictures and how to articles.

I am currently following the Sartosa 3 campaign on Da Warpath. For Monday's ship fight featuring Da Hogwasha --

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=22901&st=75&#last

I also recommend browsing through Sartosa 1 & 2 and The Grudge of Sheer campaign also featured on Da Warpath.  (Dose Orcy pirates iz dead serious about dey ships.) Somewhere on Da Warpath there is also an article on building da Hogwasha.  And for Empire, my friend Playtable has his ship photos at this site

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/playtable/Warhammer/Ships/

If you would like to start with some or indeed most of the work already done for you, I recommend the following toys:

Playmobil's Pirate Dingy (really a galleon hull with a schooner's rig)  It comes with bunches of useful bitz and is the right size for a General's Compendium medium sized ship.  (Photos posted on the B&P about 2-3 weeks ago in the Ogre ship article...)
Its good to go right out of the box or you can do what I'm doing and convert, convert, convert.

Weapons and Warriors Pirate Battle Game.  Comes with 2 ships, 2 dingies, 12 useable ship's guns, a tower and a bunch of other stuff.  May be OOP but you can still find it on Ebay.  There is an article in the B&P (with lots of photos I couldn't open) on converting them.  I picked this box up years ago.  The ships are small but can be converted easily into useful sizes for warhammer games.  My mainstay ships until 2 weeks ago.

Mega Blocks #1017 The Black Pearl.  The mother lode of Empire shipping.  A Large Ship.  (2'-0" long) She's a galleon so the historical look is not 100% right. BUT wonderful detail, lots of room for modeling and conversion or stick it together and play out of the box. Some parts are scaled for Mega Blocks figures but she's so nicely done that replacing the ship's wheel with one in 28mm scale was not a problem.

My friends and I caught the ship battle craze about 8-9 years ago. Got re-energized by the General's Compendium and then sailed again for the Crisis in Marienburg campaign.  We've been having lots of fun, but my workspace is swamped with hulls, guns and masts.  I decided to re-do all my older ships plus convert the Black Pearl.  All for a battle Sunday at 1 pm.

Fair winds and calm seas matey,
js

“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Acadian

  • Posts: 403
Re: Ships
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 09:52:59 AM »
Making ships sounds really fun.
If you ever make some pics, pls show them to me,
i would be thrilled :icon_biggrin:

Offline ekilday

  • Posts: 84
  • Hi
Re: Ships
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 12:12:53 PM »
Thanks for the inspiration.  During my Cristams vacation some ships will set sail.  I'm a teacher so that is when I will have time.
Edward Kilday
General of Sigmar

Offline Dihenydd

  • Posts: 1542
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Re: Ships
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2008, 06:28:25 PM »
Now if you want to be Fluffy in your ship choice.  Grab some Man o War literature and then copy those ship designs.  You'll find that those ships won't match the nicely stated history above. 
Blah

Offline Spiney

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Re: Ships
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2008, 06:39:32 PM »
From GW's fluff Imperial ships were mainly war galleys of various sizes, utlilising oar banks and sails as dual means of propulsion. These were invariably used as platforms for various crazy war engines of doom like the hellhammer cannon and the giant Ironfist mortar. The exception was the Imperial Capital ship, the Greatship, which was essentially an extremely heavily armoured galleon.

Orc ships were largely built out of whatever the orcs could lay their hands on and were known as "hulks". Their most defining feature was a large hammer which crushed other vessels after they had been captured by the orcs grapplers.

pictures can be found at the Man O War Yahoo group here
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/theseaofclaws/

Brain wounder: for when you don't want to kill your enemies, just leave them bedridden and pissing themselves.

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2008, 07:37:53 PM »
pictures can be found at the Man O War Yahoo group here
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/theseaofclaws/
Boy that's a really annoying site if you have an old browser, or perhaps just if you are an old browser...

Grumble, new fangled..., mumble

When Man O' War was current I gave thought to replicating the Wolf ship, etc but that project just never got off the ground.  I'm sure someone has done it, but the B&P and Da Warpath mainly follow the GC which is basically design your own sailing ship even though there are rules for galleys and steam ships. 

The exception was the Imperial Capital ship, the Greatship, which was essentially an extremely heavily armoured galleon.

The Greatship was heavily armed not armored... Only the Dawi had armor. Quibble.

Its all about what you intend to do with the ships you build and who you play with.  My group has used the GC since it came out (with lots of tweaks and house rules) because it was intended for use with the current (6th) rules.   For yet another take on Warhammer sea fights visit Warhammer Ahoy!

Mind the shoals,
js
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Sharkbelly

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Re: Ships
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2008, 07:11:20 PM »
I decided to re-do all my older ships plus convert the Black Pearl.  All for a battle Sunday at 1 pm.

Best of luck!

I've been having a go at ship combat lately, and I can see more on the horizon with the new rules for raiding campaigns in White Dwarf.

The advice above is spot on. I bought the W&W ships and Plamobil Dinghies, and they converted very well:





Plus, like they said, you get a lot of other bits. The PM set comes with a goodly number of chests and barrels for use as decoration or objectives.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 09:41:53 PM by Midaski »

Offline ekilday

  • Posts: 84
  • Hi
Re: Ships
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 09:49:05 PM »
I will have to try that web site.
Edward Kilday
General of Sigmar

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 02:50:16 AM »
Last Sunday I fought a huge ship battle in my friend's garage.  We used the General's Compendium rules with some house rules of our own.

I got an e-mail with a link to a photobucket album of our Sunday battle. My Ostlander/Hochlander/Middenlanders would be the Pearl and the WIP mostly unpainted ship (a heavily converted W&W ship), my worthy opponent's ships would be the beautifully scratch built and fully painted ones...

The photos pick up around my turn 3 when the crippled Pearl smashed into one of his small ships in hopes of capturing it to continue the fight.

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/p...%20vs%20Empire/

Our battle had one medium ship and 4 small ships on the Marienburger side. The Empire of Middenland had one large ship and one small ship. We used Crisis in Marienburg lists for 1500 pts per side.  I got there at 1:45 pm and was packed to leave at 9 pm.  His medium ship avoided the Pearl and boarded my City of Kurst, a small ship.  The Marienburg Alliance Ship Enigma (his medium) was down to 1 hull point for the last 3 turns. (My Smashers couldn't do that final hit!)  The Pearl boarded and captured one small ship and sank another. It was fighting a stubborn boarding action on another ship when the game ended (and the Pearl sank).

It was a grueling battle of attrition, with lots of cannon duels, boarding actions and sunk or abandoned ships. One small Marienburg vessel changed hands twice in as many turns. Great fun, but tiring.

For step by step instructions on building a ship see Goomb's blog on Da Warpath--

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=22660&st=0

And Adm'rul Kurgan's Ironfang Pirates at

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=7227

Enjoy!
js
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Mentat

  • Posts: 89
Quote from: chinaryan
They are just drunk midgets...kill them all.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Ships
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 07:40:12 AM »
"This Item is not available"  :-(
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 02:01:52 PM »
this ship http://www.edinburghwargames.com/J10%20Images/DSCF0886.jpg

was made from this:  http://disneyshopping.go.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DSIProductDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10051&productId=1206459&langId=-1&categoryId=14982

Only $13 each.....

I'm thinking of getting a couple


So much to choose from.  So little room...  If they also sold a Flying Dutchman to compliment that Pearl that would be heaven.  I imagine since they are OOP they will show up on e-bay.  Not for $13 though.

Adm'rul Goomb has also put a ship building tutorial on the Animosity 3 forums along with links to articles on the Dhow.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Animosity2/index.php?showtopic=651

It may be winter here in the north lands but its summer there lads.  Did I mention War Elephants!
js
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Mentat

  • Posts: 89
Re: Ships
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 03:20:15 PM »
"This Item is not available"  :-(

Crap, It was available the last time I looked at it :)

Quote from: chinaryan
They are just drunk midgets...kill them all.

Offline neverness

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Offline Victor

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Re: Ships
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2008, 08:10:33 PM »

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2008, 09:02:01 PM »
Great ship!

 :smile2:
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Acadian

  • Posts: 403
Re: Ships
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2008, 05:52:31 PM »
In this ship,
my army who hates water, would raily sail of ;)

Offline patsy02

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Re: Ships
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2008, 06:06:46 PM »
That looks like a Fluyt with undersized sails.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2008, 07:39:36 PM »
That looks like a Fluyt with undersized sails.

A what? 
 :?
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline patsy02

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Re: Ships
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2008, 09:10:10 PM »
A large Dutch trading vessel with a very distinct shape that doubled as a warship.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Von Kurst

  • Posts: 1415
Re: Ships
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2008, 09:26:33 PM »
Got it! Thanks.  Any pictures?  Always looking for more research on ships... :smile2:
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)