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Author Topic: Ships  (Read 77379 times)

Offline patsy02

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Re: Ships
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2008, 10:11:37 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluyt
http://www.horribledeath.com/age3/fluyt.htm
It had a very narrow deck to escape toll rules of the time, a bloated cargo hull and was shaped sort of like a wooden shoe.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2008, 10:25:59 PM »
Nice!  I'd come across the English reference to a flute before but didn't make the connection.

Thanks for the links! :::cheers:::
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline patsy02

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Re: Ships
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2008, 05:07:26 PM »
Damn, now I feel like making a Fluyt. It's my own fault, but I need someone else to blame...
*Eyes Von Kurst*
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2008, 05:45:36 PM »
Woo Hoo! Another poor sod laboring in the yards!  :evil:

It'll be great!  :::cheers:::
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2008, 07:32:00 PM »
Its Orctober on Da Warpath.

Check out this thread for ships and SEA MONSTERS!
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=22350&st=0

 :biggriin:
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2008, 04:02:22 PM »
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2008, 11:33:59 PM »
Another useful article on ships for 28mm miniature games

http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/2008/10/setting-sail-collecting-ships-for.html

So much coolness!

js
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Ships
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2008, 03:17:54 PM »


GIS for "fluyt" turned up this result on the first page!

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/7531/flyingfluyt8av.jpg

I'll just add that to my long list of future projects.


Offline patsy02

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Re: Ships
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2008, 06:04:58 PM »
That's the real flying dutchman.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2008, 08:23:26 PM »
Thoughts about playing naval games.

Back when the General's Compendium came out one of my friends built several ships and the accompanying scenery, wreckage and sharks.  I already had a ship that qualified as a medium and 2 others in our group started ships of their own.  We played one 4 player game with a GM.  Had fun. Never did it again.

One of the players in that game and I started playing a game every 6 months to a year apart.  (The guy who ran the first game has never played with us again...oops.) We also use our small ships and dingys in Mordheim games. Years pass.  I start playing in the Crisis in Marienburg.  There are MoW players.  Sea zones.  My friend choses Marienburg.  I chose Middenheim.  We played 2 or 3 naval games.  I lost every one except one that we had to call a draw because the store was closing.  I discover Megablocks ships and purchase a Black Pearl. (So cool.  A toy for toddlers?)

I start playing in the Animosity 3 campaign.  (Why don't more of you?)  My intention was to build more ships in an Arabian style.  Big dream, no real progress.  But the Pearl started an arms race.  My friend buys 4 large ships (Megablocks--a Pearl, a Flying Dutchman and Stormstalker and Disney's Black Pearl toy as well.)  I get a Stormstalker because he found a deal for 2.  We play our first duel between large ships.  Really interesting game.  I win so I have lots of fun. (I had fun losing too, but winning was better.)

Pros of playing naval games.

-a BIG change of pace. Not your usual Warhammer game.
-hobby intensive.  Even if you go with converted toys as I do, there's still lots to learn and do.
-high adventure, cannon duels, boarding actions, using the wind to advantage.  Each game is a different challenge.
-scenarios.  The GC came with some and the White Dwarf articles added several others.  We haven't played with flyers or sea monsters yet.

Cons of playing naval games.

-no real rules. The General's Compendium rules are not comprehensive.  Despite being in their second edition Warhammer Ahoy doesn't seem much better. This is a problem if the players are not interested in playing a game but rather are focused on winning at all costs.  My friend and I are primarily interested in playing with the toys we have made or purchased.  Thus we iron out what rules we are using and make things up on the fly. We've had a couple of rocky moments especially when a year had passed since the last game. (Since we are making up the rules, saying something isn't in the rules is not a useful argument...)
We are always play testing.
-time.  Like all Warhammer games the more toys you try to include at once the more time it takes to use them.  Our first and only battle featuring 7 ships took 8 hours to set up, play and take down.  Made us grumpy.
-space.  I don't ever want to play a game on the floor.  I think 6x8 would be the perfect table, but we usually have a 4x6 or 4x8 available.  Our first duel between large ships happened on a 4x8. It turned into a battle of maneuver and the table worked despite the fact that each large ship was at least 2 feet long.  Both of us were very conscious of the table edges.
-scale.  I used to think that using large ships was silly.  Now that I've played a couple of games with them, I'm hooked.  But space and time mean that I doubt we'll get to play more than once a month or so.

Does anyone on this forum play naval battles?
js

“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Sharkbelly

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Re: Ships
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2008, 03:24:37 PM »
Yup, I've played a few. Although the rules can get a little rocky, it really emphasizes the two sides of the hobby that I like the most: building and modeling cool pieces, and playing with them. The winning part becomes second priority.

I think you summed it up well in your post, although with a little more practice the battles do go a little faster.

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: Ships
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2008, 05:44:37 PM »
Most late Medieval/Renaissance ships were the fat bellied, clunky looking merchant kind and mostly hugged the coast lines for (relative) safety and ease of navigation.
Much of the Ancients' knowledge about ship building, star constellations and such had been either lost or suppressed by the church, so it wasn't until the late Renaissance and the so-called 'Age of Reason' that seafaring took off again.
Most of the  'Galleon' or 'Pirate' type ships you might find in toy stores and such are really too 'modern' for the WH Empire background.
If you want to nitpick, that is.......

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2008, 03:27:15 AM »
Most late Medieval/Renaissance ships were the fat bellied, clunky looking merchant kind and mostly hugged the coast lines for (relative) safety and ease of navigation.
Much of the Ancients' knowledge about ship building, star constellations and such had been either lost or suppressed by the church, so it wasn't until the late Renaissance and the so-called 'Age of Reason' that seafaring took off again.
Most of the  'Galleon' or 'Pirate' type ships you might find in toy stores and such are really too 'modern' for the WH Empire background.
If you want to nitpick, that is.......
And Columbus takes 3 of those fat bellied, clunky merchantmen and sails the Atlantic...

My current fluff--I got a galleon from the Brets!

Sharkbelly--have you seen my latest posted sea battle against the Ogres?


 :biggriin:
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline sniperjolly

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Re: Ships
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2008, 03:41:38 AM »
And Columbus takes 3 of those fat bellied, clunky merchantmen and sails the Atlantic...
one of them doesn't make it back...
What's up with that Phillyt guy... he's not what I would call '' pleasant''.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2008, 05:04:22 AM »
Ja, pretty much par for the Age of Discovery.
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Ships
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2008, 05:14:45 AM »
-scale.  I used to think that using large ships was silly.  Now that I've played a couple of games with them, I'm hooked.  But space and time mean that I doubt we'll get to play more than once a month or so.


This brings up an interesting thought... There are plenty of manufacturers of inexpensive* 15mm fantasy and historical figures. What about using a reduced scale?


* 15mm figures that are significantly cheaper than Warmaster 10mm figures -- my friends and I used to play Warmaster in 15mm for that reason. 15mm is also still large enough that you could potentially base figures individually as in WFB.


Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Ships
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2008, 11:01:47 AM »
Isn't playing with larger boats pretty similar to having a warhammer skirmish? Unless you have a huge space available, there can't be much room to maneuver, so I imagine the boats just crashing into each other and having a boarding action.

Isn't it better to play Man o' War (or something similar)?

On the other hand, I have got this:

« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 09:43:11 PM by Midaski »
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2008, 02:24:17 PM »
Isn't playing with larger boats pretty similar to having a warhammer skirmish? Unless you have a huge space available, there can't be much room to maneuver, so I imagine the boats just crashing into each other and having a boarding action.

Isn't it better to play Man o' War (or something similar)?


Nice ironclad!

I have a couple of answers to your question.
1) it depends on what you want your game to simulate.  If you want to be the admiral of your fleet, Man o' War is the game for you.  If you want to be a ship captain, you'll look for something else.

2) The game is what you make of it. Back when I started playing Warhammer, I was fighting a close game at a local store.  One of the bystanders, a 40K player, commented, "all you do in this game is move a couple of times and then roll dice for the rest of the game. BORING!"
I was shocked!  My cavalry had swept in from the flanks to save the infantry blocks that had barely held my opponent's charges.  My guns had pounded his advance.  My mages had protected the army and inflicted some damage themselves.  The army generals had fought a decisive duel in the center of the field!  The battle I was playing was high drama!
I've written stories about almost every naval game I've played. Some are over on the Imperial Office. If you cut out all the fluff, they boil down to the boats crashing into each other and a boarding action. I thought that was the point!

 :biggriin:
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Ships
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2008, 02:57:01 PM »
Fair enough.

I've never played a game with big boats, so I don't really know what it's like.   :icon_smile:
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Ships
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2008, 03:17:59 PM »


Assault cannon gyro?  :icon_eek:

Did you make the ironclad yourself or is that a kit?


Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Ships
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2008, 03:33:20 PM »
It's a gatling cannon, as in Man o' War.

The ironclad was from this company:

http://www.flagshipgames.com/catalog-pirates.htm

Though I gave it a bigger gun.

That company have a rules set as well for boat games.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Mogsam

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Re: Ships
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2008, 03:47:28 PM »
If Man O War isn't your thing/too expensive you can allways sculpt your own.  :happy:

My Thumb O War Fleet! (Pictures are quite old have had alot of work done since then however i'm too busy to work on them at the moment.)
Pirates/Orc's

Ironclad.

Ironclads.


Mogsam

Curse you and your ability to stay within the lines.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Ships
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2008, 03:51:21 PM »
Hey, those are cool!  :icon_biggrin:
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Ships
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2008, 04:03:20 PM »
Rufus--thanks for the link!  More cool stuff!

Mogsam--great job on the fleet!  Did you just start this project for A3 or have you been working on it for awhile?
“Why is the rum always gone?” -Captain Jack Sparrow
"It is, it is a glorious thing To be a Pirate King."
 -Gilbert, Sir W(illiam) S(chwenck)

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: Ships
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2008, 04:19:29 PM »
I'd put Columbus on the very tail end of the period the WH Empire is (more or less) based on.
Plus, he had no idea how far exactly he was going to have to go to get anywhere (other than the Edge of the World....).

Simulating naval warfare on a scale larger than a one-on-one boarding action is going to be very problematic space wise for most gamers if you want to use your 28 mm Warhammer figures.
One thing you could try is to run something like a campaign (assuming you can get a few other gamers interested in that sort of thing) where the naval action is simulated by Man O'War or other naval rules (Wooden Ships and Iron Men, for example) and once the crews of 2 ships actually come to blows, you switch the action to a standard wargames table and play it pretty much like a regular WH game.

Most gamers don't have the attention span for that sort of campaign, but maybe you are lucky and know a few people who do.