Topic: Questions on game versus SPEs (High Elves)

[nub5]

Heh folks.  During the game versus the SPE some questions came up and I was hoping to get confirmation or an answer to these items.  (Queek are you scurrying around so you can chime in?)

1. Eagles - Opponent says they are flying units and do not count as Monsters.  I ended up not taking "The Beast Cowers" so this would be a known issue.  However I stated from the base size and being US 3 (equal to wounds) that Great Eagles are considered monsters.  Per the rulebook it states Eagles as monsters.
Question: Is any rule / faq that specifically states that Great Eagles are not monsters?

2. Flames of the Phoenix Spell - There was discussion if this spell can be cast into combat.  Opponent say nothing in the FAQ or rulebook said it did not.  However I quoted the same goes for burning head spell and is has been FAQ that the spell cannot be cast while in combat and that FotP could not either.  In the end, we decided to let the spell go through even while in combat.
Question: Can Flames of the Phoenix be cast at a unit in Combat or whilst the wizard is engaged in Combat?

3. I had my Captainsus destroyed by fleeing through an Eagle (US 3) and my Nilla Nights destroyed by fleeing through two Cav (US 4).  Per my recollection you have to be US 5+ to autodestroy fleeing units.
Question: Is there a special High Elf rule that allows them to autodestroy units that flee through their unit even though it is under US 5?

4. I had one of his elite infantry (they have cloaks that give +2 AS v. shooting) charge my greatsword unit.  However the great swords were ~7" away and he charge through ~4" of difficult terrain.
Question: Do High Elves ignore movement penalties through forest?

Appreciate any answers that can be provided to the questions above.  Overall Empire pulled a draw against the SPE's.  However after that battle we noticed that he built a 2250 point army versus my 2000.  So I'm pretty happy being a 250 point underdog fighting Teclis and 3 level 2 mages and pulling out a draw 

As a note, again I was told by my friends that I am fielding a gunline.  Now I field 10 handgunners, 5 outriders (Champ w/ Hochland), 2 5-man archer detachments, and 6 xbow detachments.  I thought a gunline would include all of the above plus another 20-30 handgunner models at the very least. Now I'm thinking of making a gunline to show them what one is and how unfun they are to play, but then I think I'll be burned by all good empire generals 

[t12161991]

1. They are monsters. He's talking shite.
2. Does it require LoS? If it does, no, if not, yes.
3. No.
4. Just those White Lions. Only them though.

And (talking as a Wood Elf player here) I would appreciate it if you don't use the term SPE. It's rather unspecific...

If he's pulling Teclis, respond with all the cheese at your command. Show him what a gunline is. With dual stanks. Tell him you won't be forced into fielding it again if he doesn't take Teclis again.

Also, if you have more questions (like the moving through woods one), demand to see his book. There is absolutely no reason that he should deny you knowledge in writing of stats and special rules. Heck, buy it. Know thine enemy.

[Feanor Fire Heart]

I dont have my HE book handy but I though shadowhunters could move through cover as well.

But yeah the cloak ones can move through cover.  Also any unit with the magic standard of Ellyrion can move through difficult terrain like it was nothing.

I agree, If you feel uncomforatable about what he is saying about his units ask to take a look at his book.  If he denies you then I wouldnt play him. Ever.  However dont be a jerkstore about looking at his book.  use tact as he might feel you dont trust him.

other than that what t12161991 said

[Marwynn]

That was just a poor player, I'm sorry to say, looking to abuse instead of play. Not even a "power gamer" because Teclis is best used on his own with a L2 for support... maybe.

While Flames of the Phoenix isn't a Magic Missile spell it doesn't specifically state that it ignores LoS or can be cast into combat. So auto-No on those.

[Folken]

Unless a spell can be specifically cast into combat or w/ no targeting restrictions, you cannot cast it at a unit in combat the idea being it would risk your own troops and they aren't skaven.
Shadow Warrior are skirmishers so naturally ignore terrain.
t12161991 is right on the rest.

[Sig]

That bloke is just a cheat.

[minnh]

And just in case he needs a specific quotation from the rulebook to be pacified (because I know a lot of tournament players around my area are only ever compliant when I invoke the might of the 7th Ed Rulebook), here are a few that you may find useful. Hopefully I'm not breaking any copyright laws...

"Fleeing troops that have to move through non-fleeing enemy units with a unit strength of 5 or more are immediately destroyed as soon as they move into contact with such enemies." (p.41 Warhammer Rulebook)

"Wizards cannot cast spells at units engaged in close combat, unless the spell only affects the caster himself or the spell's description specifies otherwise." (p. 107, Warhammer Rulebook)

As about the Great Eagles...

"There are two types of flyers: flying monsters and flying units." (p. 68 Warhammer Rulebook)
"Flyers follow all the rules for normal units, except for the differences described below." (p. 68 Warhammer Rulebook)

The book doesn't really go into specific detail distinguishing the two, though:

"Most flyers are single model units, like monsters or characters, but some units of troops can fly too, like Harpies and Carrion. Such units are clearly identified in their army lists." (p. 69 Warhammer Rulebook)

From the above statements, I'm under the impression that all flying models that are not flying units are considered flying monsters, with flying units specifically noted as such in their respective Army Books. I believe this has some credibility, as I seem to recall the tournament players in my area all agree that The Beast Cowers can affect a Bloodthirster.

The Elves running wily nilly through forests has already been discussed at length.

Hope this helps. Remember, the Rulebook is your friend!

[Lord Drakehel]

2. Flames of the Phoenix Spell - There was discussion if this spell can be cast into combat.  Opponent say nothing in the FAQ or rulebook said it did not.  However I quoted the same goes for burning head spell and is has been FAQ that the spell cannot be cast while in combat and that FotP could not either.  In the end, we decided to let the spell go through even while in combat.
Question: Can Flames of the Phoenix be cast at a unit in Combat or whilst the wizard is engaged in Combat?

Flames of the Pheonix does not explicitly state that it can be cast at a unit in combat, so no it can't. Warhammer Rule book Page 107, CASTING SPELLS Paragraph 6.


Units fleeing through enemy units are only ever destoyed if the enemy is unit strength 5, no exceptions. Warhammer Rule book Page 40/41 MOVE SURVIVING FLEEING TROOPS Paragraph 6.

Great eagles are on 50mm bases when properly based, and are monsters. Warhammer Rule book Page 71 UNIT STRENGTH CHART.
Note, that Great Eagles are included as the example on the **.

As for moving through woods, as previously mentions, The White Lion unit does indeed ignore woodland terrain, get +2 armour save against normal missiles only, not spells, and units with the filthy 15 points banner can ignore all soft cover also. High Elves Army Book Page 58 WHITE LIONS, in the special rules section.


Hope that gives you some clarifications as well as references to show this cheat the proper rules.

LD

[Dannyfave]

you get a 3+ armor save from shooting with a lion cloak, they can move through woods without penalties.

Eagles are monsters and this guy cheats.

[Rodman49]

Out of curiosity what is SPE?

[Warlord]

Out of curiosity what is SPE?

Stupid Pointy Ears.

[gladius]

Thanks Warlord, I too was wondering what that meant but did not dare asking lest I be burnt on a stake. I sort of guessed for the PE and would have thought the S to stand for a much less polite term though.

[queek]

Great eagles are on 50mm bases when properly based, 

40mm, actually.  There's been some recent miss-packing that has caused some confustion.  Other than that, spot on.