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Author Topic: Dogs of War.... 2.0  (Read 18356 times)

Offline Midaski

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2009, 08:31:04 PM »
Again Pete I agree with your approach.

You can have a unit of 'wild men' subject to frenzy and people could model them as Arab Dervishes, Norse Beserkers or Cathayan Crazies ............... depending on the flavour of their army and its theme.

If you look at most of the Fanatasy races they tend to have generic units. It was more evident before they started things like ASF, but the basics are still there.

Kroxigor, Ogres, Rat Ogres, 40mm base stuff for example ............

We as Empire players probably tend towards uniformity - we pick a state and then use a couple of base colours as our pallette.
The nice thing about a DoW army is that it would allow you truly to build an army from across the world.

Personally although I have my standard Altdorf and Averland armies, I have my Kislevs, a Middenland army created from the basis of a CoU army, .......... and  the minis squirrelled away in boxes in cupboards for my Estalian and Arari projects.
So out of 6 Fantasy Empire related armies, only 2.5 are really Electoral Province based.

The prospect of adding a miriad of themed units from a generic DoW army is very appealing.

PS.
Someone mentioned elephants earlier - oh yes - find a unit like a 'junior' stegadon - that can carry a few troops in a howdah.
Again it could be a concept that Elephants, Stegadons, Rat Giant, Bull/Minotaur could fulfill.


PPS.
If GW are to be enticed to reconsider DoW then it has to be in a way that is easy to integrate to the current rules set and existing armies.
It also has to be 'sales attractive' - encouraging sales of more plastic kits for conversions, or allowing them to make one-off units from other areas of the Fantasy world.

I think Philly said something about the areas outside the existing races like Tilea, Ind, Cathay, etc., and GW would not be developing them.
They really don't have to - they exist, because they are already mentioned in fluff, shown on maps and related about in the fiction.






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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2009, 10:47:13 PM »
On another note, have you considered using the Nationality special rule from the Crisis in Marienburg to represent all the different peoples that would be fighting together,

Great idea!  :icon_lol:
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Offline offroadfury88

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2009, 10:53:31 PM »
Fluffwise, Dogs of War are primarily Tilean mercenaries, based on the Italian mercenaries of the Renaissance.  The crossbow and pike are the two weapons most associated with them.  I have tried to honor that in this list, and stay true to the source material.  Adding in units from areas of the old world that GW has no intention of exploring would defeat the purpose. 

Alright make you stupid Empire 2.0 list, sense your so hell bent on it
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Offline Michael W

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2009, 03:49:28 AM »
Really, the way to see GW reconsider Dogs of War is a 2-part White Dwarf article.  Part I is Lords, Heroes, and Rares; Part II is Core, Specials, and Who-Can-Hire-Whom.  Feature the classic models (that are still available) and plenty of conversions, and one Battle Report of Tileans vs. Skaven.

While such a release didn't favor Blood Angels too well - since it went for simplicity - that same concept (simplicity) applies well to Dogs of War.  They aren't - and shouldn't be - complicated.  DoW magic items are a quarter page, and they don't need more.  Units shouldn't have non-core special rules (besides Pikes).
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2009, 11:33:05 PM »
Quote
Alright make you stupid Empire 2.0 list, sense your so hell bent on it

Thanks for the vote of confidence!   :icon_mrgreen:
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2009, 02:51:29 AM »
Quote
Really, the way to see GW reconsider Dogs of War is a 2-part White Dwarf article.  Part I is Lords, Heroes, and Rares; Part II is Core, Specials, and Who-Can-Hire-Whom.  Feature the classic models (that are still available) and plenty of conversions, and one Battle Report of Tileans vs. Skaven.

While such a release didn't favor Blood Angels too well - since it went for simplicity - that same concept (simplicity) applies well to Dogs of War.  They aren't - and shouldn't be - complicated.  DoW magic items are a quarter page, and they don't need more.  Units shouldn't have non-core special rules (besides Pikes)

I don't think GW would take an article for WD from a non GW writer.  I also don't think they would promote DoW unless they were ready to bring out some new sexy models.  There's still a lot of rancor about the way they handled the Storms of chaos army lists so I don't think a half-assed WD Dogs of War list would go over well.

The object of this project is to create a workable "unofficial" Dogs of War list to stir up interest in Dogs of War as an army.  If we can stir up a sizable amount of interest GW will take notice and hopefully give them a good revamp.  I'm trying to stay true to the spirit of the old list, while ironing out some of the wrinkles that plagued the old ruleset.

As far as simplicity goes, I don't want to introduce a bunch of weird special rules for the army.  I've taken a few liberties with army composition (ogres give you access to gnoblars, halflings get you a bonus hotpot, etc), but rules-wise there shouldn't be too much to worry about.  Most of the crazier ideas I have will be reserved for Regiments of Renown.

I do want to give dogs of war an actual magic items list.  This is one of the HUGE weaknesses of the list.  Apparently GW figured that giving the Regiments of Renown a bunch of crappy and poorly thought out magic items would be a good substitute for a real magic items list for the DoW.  The problem is that the regiments of renown totally suck, and it's kind of pointless to give out the few decent items to crappy heroes with fixed equipment (which also happens to be crappy).

At the present I'm fleshing out the core list.... adding stats, and equipment options, and all that other tedious stuff.  Characters will come after I've got the basic list ironed out, but they will be pretty close to what they are now.  I'm tinkering with some options for the characters but those may not turn out to be in the final version.  We'll see.
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2009, 04:00:28 AM »
Been very busy at work the last few days, but here's a basic list of core troops, in a more polished format.

----------
Core Units
----------

-----------------------------------------------
Pikemen

8 Points/Model

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  3   3   3  3  1  3  1  7 

Unit size: 10+

Equipment: Hand Weapon, Pike, Light Armor.

Special rules: Pikes- Requires 2 hands, Fights in 4 ranks, Counts as a defended obstacle when charged from
the front, +1 strength when charged by cavalry, chariots, or monsters from the front.

Options:  May upgrade to heavy armor for +2 pts per model.
        One pikeman may be upgraded to Champion for 10 pts (+1 Attack).
        One Pikeman may be upgraded to musician for 5 pts.
        One Pikeman may be upgraded to Standard Bearer for 10 pts.

------------------------------------------------
Veteranos

8 Points/Model

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  4   3   3  3  1  3  1  7

Unit size:  5-10

Equipment: Hand Weapon, Light Armor, Great Weapon.

Special rules-Skirmishers, Support Unit- You may have 1 unit Veteranos for each unit of pikemen in your
army.  Each unit must be deployed at the same time as the pikemen unit to which it is attached, and must
be deployed withing 3" of the parent unit.

Options:  May upgrade to heavy armor for +2 pts per model.

-------------------------------------------------
Mercenary Company

5 Points/Model

Unit size: 10+

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  3   3   3  3  1  3  1  7 

Equipment: Light Armor, Hand Weapon, Halberd. 

Special rules:

Options: May purchase shields for 1 point, or swap thier halberds for shields or an additional hand weapon at no cost.
       One Mercenary may be upgraded to Champion for 8 pts (+1 Attack).
       One Mercenary may be upgraded to musician for 4 pts.
       One Mercenary may be upgraded to Standard Bearer for 8 pts.
----------------------------------------------------
Crossbowmen

8 Points/Model

Unit size: 10+

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  3   3   3  3  1  3  1  7 

Equipment: Hand Weapon, Light armor, Crossbow

Options: May take pavises for 2 points per model (+2 AS vs shooting/magic missiles)
       Champion May upgrade his crossbow to a Tilean repeater crossbow (x2 shots) for 10 pts.
       One Crossbowman may be upgraded to Champion for 5 pts (+1 BS).
       One Crossbowman may be upgraded to musician for 5 pts.
       One Crossbowman may be upgraded to Standard Bearer for 10 pts.
-----------------------------------------------------
Heavy Cavalry

19 Points/Model

Unit size: 5+

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  4   3   3  3  1  3  1  8

Equipment: Hand Weapon, Lance, Heavy Armor, and Shield. 

Mount: Warhorse. 

Options:  May purchase barding for thier mounts for +2 pts per model.
        One Knight may be upgraded to Champion for 14 pts (+1 Attack).
        One Knight may be upgraded to musician for 7 pts.
        One Knight may be upgraded to Standard Bearer for 14 pts.
             One unit may carry a magic standard worth up to 50 points.
-----------------------------------------------------
Light Cavalry

11 Points/Model

Unit size: 5+

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  3   3   3  3  1  3  1  7

Equipment: Hand Weapon

Mount: Warhorse

Options:  May purchase Spears (+1 pt/model), Shields (+2 pts/model), and/or Bows (+3 pts/model).
        One Horseman may be upgraded to Champion for 14 pts (+1 BS, +1 Attack).
        One Horseman may be upgraded to musician for 6 pts.
        One Horseman may be upgraded to Standard Bearer for 10 pts.
-----------------------------------------------------

A pretty vanilla list so far.  Pikemen and Crossbowmen get free light armor (much good it will do them!),

Crossbowmen can upgrade to pavises (making the light armor worthwhile).

Mercenaries can be fielded with two hand weapons (like free company), if you like.  This makes the mercs a little more versatile.  I felt spears would be too good combined with pikes (and a bit of an anachronism besides), but an additional hand weapon seems more balanced.



Here are some ideas I'm considering:

Pistol option for heavy cav champion.  An extra shot is always nice, but is it worth it on a BS 3 model?
Crossbows for light cav.  The crossbow's move or fire rule means your fast cav have to choose between moving and shooting.
Should the heavy cav be allowed more than one magic banner?
Should light cav have a magic banner option?  I think they'd be neat with a war banner, or something similar. 
Paymaster's bodyguard as a 0-1 core unit.
Duellists reborn, but as a special choice (and with more options).
I'm dropping the Kislev troops, and will make them part of their own list.  They'll still be hirable, but as allies rather than mercs.

What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 02:50:24 PM by Pistol Pete »
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2009, 04:40:26 AM »
The Paymaster:

In the current DoW ruleset, the Paymaster is pretty lousy.  He's a mediocre combat hero (like a warrior priest) who also functions as a BSB, but without the ability to take a magic banner.  If he dies, the whole army takes a panic test (there goes your battle line!), and he's not exactly a hard guy to kill (thanks to a crappy selection of magic items).  Sure, all your units will now HATE the unit that killed him, but that's small consolation if those units you were counting on turned tail and fled. 

Oh, and you HAVE to take a paymaster.  So you've got to give up a valuable character slot to field this turd of a character.  I think I'd rather be forced to take an empire engineer!

So anyhow, do we fix the paymaster? Or just dump him in the bin of crappy ideas (intrigue at court!) that nobody liked?  There have been a few people here who have argued that he should be kept, just for the sake of uniqueness.  So here are a few questions for you guys:

Should the paymaster be kept?
Should he be a mandatory character, or should he be optional?
Should he take up a character slot, or should he be "free".
Should he be BSB, or should he serve some other function?  (Support character of some kind?)
If a BSB, should he have the option of a magic banner?
What abilities, if any should he posess, and does he have any drawbacks?

 :?
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2009, 06:02:40 AM »
What about throwing spears on the light cavalry?

What about Mercenaries carrying pistols?

I think champions of all units should have a wide equipment choice, to give units flavour.


To be honest, though the paymaster is hated, I think he would be inappropriate any other way.

He should be kept as mandatory. He should take a character slot. He should IMO be a quasi-BSB like he now, however don't exclude a capatin from being a BSB also. He should not be able to carry a banner (thats the BSB captain's job). Panic and Hatred I think are also appropriate.

What i do think however, would be that he can have the option to ride a paychest chariot thingy like Mydas the Mean's servant does. And that paychest can operate in much the same way.

Yes, I know that then becomes just another chariot buff thingy, however to be fair, it was already in the DoW list. Possibly even upgrade it to be a Paymasters Coach which would have higher toughness, better armour and more crew (think Mordhiem stage coach)
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Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2009, 07:16:25 AM »
Throwing spears would be really cool. The Roman medium cavalry utilized throwing spears in what was like faster version of the Caracolle. That way each missile had more hitting power than an arrow.
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Offline Davros

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2009, 10:18:33 AM »
Thet are doing something similar over at thta the new Dogs of War website . Have you had a look there for any further ideas ?   

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2009, 11:54:23 PM »
Quote
Throwing spears would be really cool. The Roman medium cavalry utilized throwing spears in what was like faster version of the Caracolle. That way each missile had more hitting power than an arrow.

Javelins? For light cav?  Neat idea.  I'll consider that.  One idea I've got for a RoR unit is a block of infantry with hand weapon and shield plus javelins (based on the classic roman legionaries), so javelins have been on my mind lately.

Quote
Thet are doing something similar over at thta the new Dogs of War website . Have you had a look there for any further ideas ?   

I have not been to any of the DoW sites in awhile (they're awfully quiet).  I planned on finishing this here before going over there to get their opinions.  I'd prefer to finish my version before looking at anybody else's.  After it's done, though, I'm willing to bring in other ideas to flesh it out more fully.

Quote
What about Mercenaries carrying pistols?


No.  The mercs are supposed to be *basic*.  Pistols will be available on the modified duellists, however.  Actually, I'm thinking about adding a pistol option for the Light Cav.  A unit of demilancers would be cool (pistol & spear), but I may just save that for the Kislev list.

Quote
What i do think however, would be that he can have the option to ride a paychest chariot thingy like Mydas the Mean's servant does. And that paychest can operate in much the same way.

Interesting.  I'm thinking of something more like the corpse cart, as I don't have the rules for Midas.

Quote
Panic and Hatred I think are also appropriate.

Thematically, I can see that, but game-balance wise it's a disaster.  The panic, I mean.  That panic test could cripple or destroy a major part of the army, and on a mandatory character it's doubly cruel.  To offset the increased risk to the whole army I'd have to make the list cheaper or more powerful.  And then it would be VC all over again.  Kill the leader and watch the army crumble, or get steamrolled.  No thanks.

My current inclination is something more like this...
--------------------------------------------
Paymaster

75 points

M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
4  4   4   4  4  2  4  2  8

Your army must include 1 paymaster. You may not have more than one paymaster.  He may not be the general in any DoW army over 1000 points.  The paymaster does not take up a character slot in your army.

Mount: The paymaster may ride a warhorse (+10pts) which may have barding (+4pts).

Equipment: The paymaster may have an additional hand weapon (+4 pts), great weapon (+4 pts), morning star (+2 pts), or halberd (+4 pts).
He may have a longbow (+10 pts), crossbow (+10 pts) , pistol (+7 pts), or brace of pistols (+14 pts).
He may wear light armor (+2 pts), heavy armor (+4 pts), or a shield (+2 pts).
If the paymaster is mounted, he may have a spear (+2 pts) or lance (+4 pts).

Special Rules:

Paymaster- The paymaster and any unit he joins are Stubborn.  Paymaster counts as a Battle Standard Bearer (though he may not carry a magic banner).

Paymaster's Key- The paymaster's key counts as a battle standard for all intents and purposes.  If captured by the enemy, all friendly units will *hate* the enemy who has captured the Paymaster's key. 
-------------------------------------------------
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2009, 12:21:05 AM »
Mydas' paychest was basically a light chariot, that allowed units within 6" to reroll failed psych tests - as the sight of the money makes them fight on.

I would like to question though why a Paymaster cannot be the general? I know thats what the current rules are, but why not?

Stubborn on any unit he joins is good, and worth the increase to 75pts.

Maybe just any friendly units that have LOS to the paymaster panic? I think such a downside is still needed - now more than ever after you add the stuborn ability.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2009, 01:17:08 PM »
Quote from: Pistol Pete
Crossbows for light cav.  The crossbow's move or fire rule means your fast cav have to choose between moving and shooting.

As I said, crossbow light cavalry are essentially useless. Don't bother.


Quote from: Pistol Pete
One idea I've got for a RoR unit is a block of infantry with hand weapon and shield plus javelins (based on the classic roman legionaries)

Wait, I thought you said you wanted renaissance-y Tileans?



Quote from: Warlord
Mydas' paychest was basically a light chariot, that allowed units within 6" to reroll failed psych tests - as the sight of the money makes them fight on.

It's a pretty stupid concept though. Why would anyone take their money to the front line of a battle?

I think the paymaster panic rule is a remnant of 5th edition and should be removed.
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Offline Michael W

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2009, 11:51:50 PM »
Quote from: Pistol Pete
Crossbows for light cav.  The crossbow's move or fire rule means your fast cav have to choose between moving and shooting.

As I said, crossbow light cavalry are essentially useless. Don't bother.
Eh, Crossbow Light Cav could be worth it if they're not charged on a purely compositional basis for their equipment (ie, 3pt human + 8pt horse + 5pt crossbow), since pieces don't compliment each other.

What about starting light cav at around 9 pts instead of 11, and making crossbows a 2 or 3 pt/model upgrade?  Would that encourage you to take them, Rufas?
Let them taste Reikland steel!
----------------------------

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2009, 02:37:07 AM »
Really, the way to see GW reconsider Dogs of War is a 2-part White Dwarf article. 

Call me crazy, but I think the most likely way we would see anything resembling DoW is in an Ogre Kingdoms book.  Merging them or Chaos Dwarves with Ogre Kingdoms will help both armies get to some sort of even footing and see a little support without making a whole new book.

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Offline Michael W

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2009, 04:18:58 AM »
I'd love to see Chaos Dwarves make it into the Ogre Book - Ogres as-written are a little too dull and are one of the weakest armies right now; making it a "Hordes of the East" or some such could incorporate Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and Hobgoblins in a single list, with plenty of variety and fluff.  Great idea.
Let them taste Reikland steel!
----------------------------

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2009, 02:07:29 PM »
Yes, I think that the most likely scenario for chaos dwarfs, and some DoW to get back, is to make them part of the new Ogre kingdom book.
Would surely add to them ogres if they could use some Chaos dwarf infantry and hobgoblin cavalry.

If we are to belive GW wants to keep up with their "Back to the roots" approach, I would not find it out of question that they fling in pikes as some special Empire choice. In an old Empire list, I belive Nuln had pikes.

In a way, it seems more beliveable that the DoW will be divided between many armies, rather than being an army on their own.
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Offline jturner

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2009, 03:50:33 PM »
Why not make the paymaster's race optional? Instead of a static stat line for the paymaster, make it an upgrade to an existing hero. Someone HAS to be the paymaster, but Why does the paymaster have to be human? Ogre, elf, dwarf..whatever. Maneater Paymaster? why not? the model exists. And that could open up other options as well (If paymaster of X race is in a unit of X race, the unit is unbreakble instead of stubborn?) as well as wpn options (maneaters still get their standard wpns options, just now they are the paymaster as well)...something like that.

Also, I worked for a brief time for GW about 8 years ago as a manager, and they absolutely DID accept articles from no GW employees (that's how alessio got started out!).

However, rather than submitting an army book, I would recommend submitting an article. Like putting the pegasus strategies into article form. You are more likely to get published (although GW owns your work and will not compensate, if I remember correctly) and then have opportunities later on.

Also, I think your pike/detachment system is a little too buff for the points cost. I don't think they should be allowed to use the 'detachment' rules "as is" maybe a "mercenary hesitation" rule...they can counter charge, but they fight after the enemy unit (unlike the regular empire troops) to represent the fact that they are fighting for coin (should we REALLY  jump in there?) Something like that.

j

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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2009, 11:21:58 PM »
Quote
Also, I think your pike/detachment system is a little too buff for the points cost. I don't think they should be allowed to use the 'detachment' rules "as is" maybe a "mercenary hesitation" rule...they can counter charge, but they fight after the enemy unit (unlike the regular empire troops) to represent the fact that they are fighting for coin (should we REALLY  jump in there?) Something like that.

The pikes DO NOT use empire detachment rules.  The Zwiehander units do not have the ability to support or countercharge.  They are also capable of causing panic (although I might change that down the road).  They are designed to offer a little bit of str 5 punch to the pike's wimpy str 3. 

Of course, you don't have to have a zweihander unit support your pikes (they can go off to do other missions if you like), but I limited them to 1 unit per pike unit to keep them from becoming a problem.

The idea was to create a unit to support the pikes that made more sense than the duellists.  Doppelsoldiers were often used with pike formations, so it fits in with historically (though GW takes plenty of liberties there), and seems like it would be a neat and useful unit type for a DoW army. 

I'm tinkering with some rules for a new duellist type unit, so you can still field them if you like, but they will be more limited in numbers than they were before (but with more customizable options).

Quote
Why not make the paymaster's race optional?

Don't get me wrong... I like the idea of multiple races, but it makes things WAY more complicated than they would otherwise be.  I have considered allowing 1 mercenary captain to represent another race (and/or some other types of bonuses), but I think the paymaster should be human for simplicty's sake.  Yes, the ogre paymaster is groovy, but trying to make ogre captains a balanced addition is very tricky.

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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2009, 11:28:27 PM »
Quote
One idea I've got for a RoR unit is a block of infantry with hand weapon and shield plus javelins (based on the classic roman legionaries)

Quote
Wait, I thought you said you wanted renaissance-y Tileans?

The legionary unit is not for the basic DoW list, but for Regiments of Renown, which are much more exotic than the standard DoW list.  This could represent a Reman Legion, or some other type of exotic mercenary.  Basically, the bread and butter DoW list will be rather basic, while the Regiments of Renown will be more funky and off the wall. 

Quote
It's a pretty stupid concept though. Why would anyone take their money to the front line of a battle?
I think the paymaster panic rule is a remnant of 5th edition and should be removed.

I could never figure out why a glorified accountant (paymaster) would put himself on the front lines where he might lose his extremely valuable key.

 :?
Desperately seeking Chaos Warrior heads & Skull banner tops from new empire missle troops sprue.  Will trade for bitz, barter, or $$$.  PM or email me to discuss details.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 9303
  • Sydney, Australia
Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2009, 08:17:24 AM »
Why not make the paymaster's race optional? Instead of a static stat line for the paymaster, make it an upgrade to an existing hero. Someone HAS to be the paymaster, but Why does the paymaster have to be human? Ogre, elf, dwarf..whatever. Maneater Paymaster? why not? the model exists. And that could open up other options as well (If paymaster of X race is in a unit of X race, the unit is unbreakble instead of stubborn?) as well as wpn options (maneaters still get their standard wpns options, just now they are the paymaster as well)...something like that.

I like this idea. A lot.

Except make it that the DoW book has to work in conjunction with another book. Simply take the basic combat hero of any current book, and add a 'paymaster' upgrade to him. That then opens up the DoW and all its (accessible) choices to you, so you can have a mixed army. Of course Core DoW choices would then drop off, meaning that core would need to come from the 'Parent' armylist, while the specials and rares could come from either.

Of course only some races can have paymasters, others (evil races) would work differently, but have a similar equivalent.

Kinda like Ally rules, but the allies units you can choose from are from a set list.

For example:
Empire Captain becomes a paymaster, Empire Core is only available Core. Can then mix in DoW RoR, special and rare choices to make a more varied list.
Orc Boss becomes paymaster, Orc Core is only available Core. Can then mix in allowed DoW RoR, special and rare chocies.

The key is having appropriate rules regading which race can take which unit.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Malerun

  • Posts: 51
Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2009, 10:49:54 AM »
Why not make the paymaster's race optional? Instead of a static stat line for the paymaster, make it an upgrade to an existing hero. Someone HAS to be the paymaster, but Why does the paymaster have to be human? Ogre, elf, dwarf..whatever. Maneater Paymaster? why not? the model exists. And that could open up other options as well (If paymaster of X race is in a unit of X race, the unit is unbreakble instead of stubborn?) as well as wpn options (maneaters still get their standard wpns options, just now they are the paymaster as well)...something like that.

I like this idea. A lot.

Except make it that the DoW book has to work in conjunction with another book. Simply take the basic combat hero of any current book, and add a 'paymaster' upgrade to him. That then opens up the DoW and all its (accessible) choices to you, so you can have a mixed army. Of course Core DoW choices would then drop off, meaning that core would need to come from the 'Parent' armylist, while the specials and rares could come from either.

Of course only some races can have paymasters, others (evil races) would work differently, but have a similar equivalent.

Kinda like Ally rules, but the allies units you can choose from are from a set list.

For example:
Empire Captain becomes a paymaster, Empire Core is only available Core. Can then mix in DoW RoR, special and rare choices to make a more varied list.
Orc Boss becomes paymaster, Orc Core is only available Core. Can then mix in allowed DoW RoR, special and rare chocies.

The key is having appropriate rules regading which race can take which unit.

I like!

Maybe allow DoW core as "not counting towrds minimum core" and limited in some other way. Say, max 1 DoW core for each 1 or 2 "own" core?
Malerun

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 9303
  • Sydney, Australia
Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2009, 03:12:09 AM »
Why not make the paymaster's race optional? Instead of a static stat line for the paymaster, make it an upgrade to an existing hero. Someone HAS to be the paymaster, but Why does the paymaster have to be human? Ogre, elf, dwarf..whatever. Maneater Paymaster? why not? the model exists. And that could open up other options as well (If paymaster of X race is in a unit of X race, the unit is unbreakble instead of stubborn?) as well as wpn options (maneaters still get their standard wpns options, just now they are the paymaster as well)...something like that.

I like this idea. A lot.

Except make it that the DoW book has to work in conjunction with another book. Simply take the basic combat hero of any current book, and add a 'paymaster' upgrade to him. That then opens up the DoW and all its (accessible) choices to you, so you can have a mixed army. Of course Core DoW choices would then drop off, meaning that core would need to come from the 'Parent' armylist, while the specials and rares could come from either.

Of course only some races can have paymasters, others (evil races) would work differently, but have a similar equivalent.

Kinda like Ally rules, but the allies units you can choose from are from a set list.

For example:
Empire Captain becomes a paymaster, Empire Core is only available Core. Can then mix in DoW RoR, special and rare choices to make a more varied list.
Orc Boss becomes paymaster, Orc Core is only available Core. Can then mix in allowed DoW RoR, special and rare chocies.

The key is having appropriate rules regading which race can take which unit.

I like!

Maybe allow DoW core as "not counting towrds minimum core" and limited in some other way. Say, max 1 DoW core for each 1 or 2 "own" core?

The problem with that though is that all DoW Core is human. Taking a Orc Boss Paymaster, it seems a little weird that they could take a whole bunch of humans as 'not counting as Core'. Rather the special, rare and RoR choices give the racial variety.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline MiB

  • Posts: 724
Re: Dogs of War.... 2.0
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2009, 07:49:55 AM »
Should the paymaster be kept?
Should he be a mandatory character, or should he be optional?
Should he take up a character slot, or should he be "free".
Should he be BSB, or should he serve some other function?  (Support character of some kind?)
If a BSB, should he have the option of a magic banner?
What abilities, if any should he posess, and does he have any drawbacks?

 :?

Give him a War Altar... or as the Italians called it a Carroccio