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Author Topic: New Greatswords  (Read 31017 times)

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #150 on: December 23, 2009, 01:39:17 PM »
Not for our 1 attack T3 lightly armoured dudes. . . for chaos warriors, yes.

I  say that is pretty good, unless we want to flee from a charge.
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Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #151 on: December 23, 2009, 10:09:21 PM »
I mostly agree with Commandant, although I can see where the appeal of 2 attacks comes from. There are just so many elites with 2 attacks nowadays that kills seem important. The truth is, though, that greatswords are not designed to be killy. That is why they have full plate and stubborn instead of extra attacks and WS, or other such attack power increases. Our killy units are our shooting, our knights, and occasionally our characters.

Then Greatswords are doing very little that can't be done by a unit of swordsmen for less points and they shouldn't be cutting into the number of inner circle knights we can take by being a special choice.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline kk14

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #152 on: December 24, 2009, 08:11:05 PM »
Greatswords are doing very little that can't be done by a unit of swordsmen for less points and they shouldn't be cutting into the number of inner circle knights we can take by being a special choice.

That is true, except that they are stubborn Ld. 8. This means they are able to take much heavier charges, and don't have to be in range of the general all the time. It's not a big difference, but, when combined with their greatweapons, I say it's about a 4 point one.  :wink:
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Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #153 on: December 28, 2009, 07:03:41 PM »
So how about making them a core choice?

If we can't get two attacks for them, how about making them strength 4 base (precedent IC knights) I4 (precedent Swordsmen) and have their greatswords count as halberds?

They'd be the same total strength (5) but they wouldn't automatically strike last and there's a possibility (however slight) that they might actually kill something before dying.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline kk14

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #154 on: December 29, 2009, 01:59:24 PM »
So how about making them a core choice?

If we can't get two attacks for them, how about making them strength 4 base (precedent IC knights) I4 (precedent Swordsmen) and have their greatswords count as halberds?

They'd be the same total strength (5) but they wouldn't automatically strike last and there's a possibility (however slight) that they might actually kill something before dying.

 :laugh:
I can see that you are not easily dissuaded.  I still feel that greatswords with killy faces, or any infantry besides possibly flagellants with killy faces, is not really in the Empire fluff.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

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Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #155 on: December 29, 2009, 07:28:22 PM »
So as opposed to the Silver Horde, who were the best at not dying, our Greatswords are simply best at not running away?

Maybe we should just change their names, instead of Greatswords we can call them "Really Stupidly Brave Swords" instead.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline Joelatron

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #156 on: December 30, 2009, 03:07:05 AM »
Is unbreakable when a GoTE is in the unit too OP?

They can already be unbreakable with a warrior priest.

I use Great swords (22+ Warrior priest on barded warhorse with icon of magnus, GW, HA, and Ench Shield) with either 2 9 man swordmen detach or 1 9 man sword detach and 5 archer detach.

They consistently walk over everything they touch-except korn knights and other super heavy Calvary. In fact at the last tournament I took them to EVERYTHING that could flee as a charge reaction did (incl chaos warriors...boo hiss!) and those that couldnt (VC stuff) got cut down in a turn or two. The hatred + prayers and the immune to fear thing made them very, very scary.

The secret is to get the charge , or set up the detachments to guarantee the rank breaking counter charge.

Offline Zarkdon

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2010, 05:04:54 AM »
Greatswords need to be core and 8 pts. Maybe give them shields and take out the handweapon (IE they have a 3+ AS against shooting but cant use it in melee).
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Offline Utsujin

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #158 on: February 01, 2010, 07:23:05 PM »
I agree with the 8 point part.  Either have really killy stuff like all the newer army books.  Or make them cheaper.  Maybe have one unit upgradable so you can have greatswords with 2 attacks for 10 points.  I mean as of right now.. black guard.. have higher ws, strike before, and 1 more attack for only 3 points more?  A price drop to 8 would be in order.  2 attacks really isn't that bad considering they are the most elite infantry we have... and if we only have 1 unit of them.. not that bad really.  That would be like, say the best 100 men in the empire fighting.  Options for shields for 1/model.  No strength upgrade. 

Offline commandant

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #159 on: February 09, 2010, 08:04:44 PM »
:laugh:
I can see that you are not easily dissuaded.  I still feel that greatswords with killy faces, or any infantry besides possibly flagellants with killy faces, is not really in the Empire fluff.

The interesting thing is that my greatswords normally out kill my knights by a long way.   Funny isn't it?

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #160 on: February 09, 2010, 10:25:44 PM »
Only because they hold and can strike at s5.

But think of it this way, greatswordsmen are the best fighters we have. . .against ourselves.
And possibly orcs.
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Offline commandant

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #161 on: February 11, 2010, 04:45:00 AM »
Only because they hold and can strike at s5.

But think of it this way, greatswordsmen are the best fighters we have. . .against ourselves.
And possibly orcs.

Greatswordsmen are the best fighters that we have against anything, they just need a slightly more skillful general to ensure the charge

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2010, 07:30:22 AM »
Yeah, getting the charge is important. But even then, our six to 8 attacks(depending on warrior priest) isn't gonna kill more then a chaos warrior or two.

while they butcher our rank back, I suppose I should just start making strategies for a charge, fight till my next turn, then hit them with flankers.
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline Joelatron

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #163 on: February 17, 2010, 09:01:35 AM »
Greatswordsmen are the best fighters that we have against anything, they just need a slightly more skillful general to ensure the charge

Agreed. Backed by 2 detachments, I have had chaos warriors opt to flee instead of facing a charge of 7 wide greatswords + WP with 2 9 man swords detachments.

I think 10 points plus the option to take a magic banner of 50 points (assume griffon banner goes down to 50 points) and 1 unit as core if take GoTE.

Still slightly over priced, but getting a  really good banner choice + ability to take as core makes up for it.

+ we have to factor in the fact that they can become unbreakable and have hatred (re; WP)

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: New Greatswords
« Reply #164 on: February 20, 2010, 03:05:32 AM »
yes hatred only if you take a priest, and what if you don't want to field the same army all of the time?

And our powerlevel of four unbreakable, very tough to crack considering all the 7+ dispel dice armies out there .
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::