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Author Topic: Design the empire book?  (Read 7892 times)

Offline kk14

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Design the empire book?
« on: December 18, 2009, 07:33:37 AM »
What the subject line says.
Basically, I propose that it is time we find a group of conservative, fair-minded people and ask them to debate and come to a consensus on the best, most balanced Empire army book they can.

The list designed would take suggestions from all over, and might come out quite interestingly.

I remember the high elves doing something similar on asur.org a year or so before their book came out. The list was in no way legal or to be used outside of friendly games, but was nicely balanced, and the dev team purportedly borrowed ideas from it when they started the HE book.

When will we, if that is the plan behind this board?
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 12:25:09 PM »
I think the question is really about coming up with an approach. For the most part, people seem happy enough to just post what they think and move on. We need it to be a Work in Progress piece of construction. How we do that using this medium - I don't quite know.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 12:28:19 PM »
I would be in! with ideas and typing of stuff perhaps even some fluffworks if someone proofreads it.

It would be cool if we had some designer that could format the information to look like a proper army book....if we can make this I would say army book: bears should be next.


Offline kk14

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 01:22:03 PM »
I think we would want a panel to go over the more common or meritous ideas for each thing, and they would have to vote or come to a concensus.

Fluff and extra submissions should be allowed by everyone, and again, the best would stay. Hopefully, but not necessarily, the Empire's fluff would be similar, but not identical to what it is.

How do we select the decision-making panel(s)? Well, they would have to be people who have played for a while, know most of the nuances and abuses available in the rules. People who play frequently, or who play more than one army would probably have a better sense of balance, both internal and inter-army, so would probably make better judges of the rules, whereas the fluff could be selected by creatively minded people, or even voted on by the whole forum.

I think a work in progress approach would be best. Come up with some sort of judgment on an issue, say the halberd, :icon_rolleyes: and then post the judgment for all to see. The board could discuss it more. To it would be added the next such judgment, until everything was compiled. No matter what, they would have to be people willing to evaluate all (or most) suggestions and ideas presented.

I do not think that the entire forum should be deciding or judging on the rules side of the book, because as we have seen some ideas are simply way over the top. Nomination would probably be the best way to select the rules judges, if they are willing.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 06:20:51 PM »
F_L_E_X_I_B_I_L_I_T_Y
especially in army design, this way a player general can design an army based on the percieved scale and military role his table top army is supposed to be performing. 

Beyond that I'd be up for even designing a set of campaign house rules we could use unofficialy.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline kk14

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 03:22:45 AM »
F_L_E_X_I_B_I_L_I_T_Y
especially in army design, this way a player general can design an army based on the percieved scale and military role his table top army is supposed to be performing. 

Agree. But then, I always saw the Empire as flexible. Hopefully the players desingning this would also be fleixible-minded.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline kingfisher

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 08:48:09 PM »
I think that the new book should be flexble for us to use some of our own models but I belive that GW should as it fans what they would like to see in the book !

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 08:52:53 AM »
Ok what would be nice (except the obvious people who do the work on the book)

a lead designer ....he says jump all the others jump he has the final word in ...well everything. Be it fluff stories, pictures, or rules for the single models.

some playtesters would be nice too.

Perhaps we also should skim through the last couple of army books to steal ideas.

Offline kk14

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 09:07:09 AM »
Perhaps we also should skim through the last couple of army books to steal ideas.

Especially this.

I really want to do this, I think after Christmas I will see how exactly to go about doing it.

I will do some research on how other armies' forums have done similar things in the past.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 11:14:51 AM »
What I really would like would be to include some of the great fluff stuff from this very forum AND what I really would like that isnīt in any army book yet is a battle report.

To include a battle report in the army book with a 2000 points sample army list and some pictures would be great to get a feel for the army. (not only the strange lists they put inside) a list with some background a neat introducing story like they did in the older white dwarves and some analysis who the battle went and why it did go this way.

Offline Obi

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 04:15:04 PM »
Okay, I'd definitely be up for doing this. Although I haven't posted that much in the forum (after all the ideas have been mentioned, it just a pointless bickering of 'my idea is better, because x' and 'no, mine because y'), I have been reading it.

I think that making a team was always the goal when Grutch created the forum, as he knew that letting everyone say what they want just won't work.

I think that Inarticulate should be in this team, if he wants to.

Now, on to the suggestions:
Fluff from this forum should be included, however that is an entirely different subject. That would require two teams- one doing the army book (IMO the most important part for a new book) and a second one for the fluff. Sample army lists are pointless IMO, let everyone come up with their own ideas. We already have the forum for that anyway! Pictures are a must.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 06:39:17 PM »
How would you guys think about the battle report idea?

Offline Obi

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009, 07:36:17 PM »
How would you guys think about the battle report idea?
I think it wouldn't work- it is way too complicated to add in a book. Just post them here!
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

caveat lector
I killed a duck with a spear, can't read train timetables though
"To be is to do"-Socrates;
"To do is to be"-Sartre;
"Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra

Offline kk14

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 07:12:16 AM »
How would you guys think about the battle report idea?
I have given it some thought - it seems like it would be a great idea for a real army book, because it would show how the army could be played. Also, a well-written battle report (with pictures) is one of the best rules and tactics learning tools available.

Obi has a point: it adds another complex dimension to the army book, one which could actually detract from the overall work. However, just because something might fail is not a reason to exclude it IMHO.

So I say include it. It can't hurt, and will add more to the book than a simple list of rules.

That said, let's not do anything too drastic to the Empire fluff. Keep it the same, but add to it, instead of changing it. That way we are not a 'different' Empire, but the Empire 'balanced' or 'alternative' version.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2009, 03:54:39 PM »
Them green boyz over at da Warpath have come up with something like this but I'm not sure how they approached it. 
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 04:01:47 PM by wissenlander »
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Offline Grutch

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 06:31:21 PM »
I don't think this could be designed by committee per say.

Make your own version of the army list.. In fact I think I'll post what I wrote up with the gaming group I played with at work in San Diego.  I took their input seriously because most of the group was built around excellent game desingers. 

I'll post my list in the next week when I can dig up the files.  I might even play it with the group Im playing with now.

-Grutch

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 11:56:38 PM »
I would be in for this, it would be a great project to work with.

My qualifications are:

Been playing warhammer for 9 years, 40k for 4.
Empire was my first army, have over 7000pts worth and numerous battles under my belt.
Tomb Kings was my next army, have had them for four years. 3800pts
Recently my newest army is all night goblins, only had them for 1.5 years 2250pts

Been involved with numerous discussions on the empire on this site and with our dedicated gamer group where I live. Can play test lists and help with list construction as I am not a power gamer, my numerous Empire army designs are proof of this(always led by a general, even when the arch lector became the staple all through seventh) and I am checking this site every day for new tactics and list designs.
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline osterknact

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2010, 08:18:48 PM »
id like to help too.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Design the empire book?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2010, 03:34:00 PM »
I've been playing war hammer and warhammer historical since 2nd edition and I'm also a graphic designer and would be willing to take this on as a project for my portfolio.  I have the cs5 suite and have been working at several magazine and book projects in school so would like another excuse to use my new skills.  It'll be good practise for typeography and page design in iD.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.