home

Author Topic: Army Book: Captain of the Empire  (Read 10356 times)

Offline kk14

  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« on: February 18, 2010, 08:48:08 AM »
Captain of the Empire

Same as before. 50 points.
Add: Special Rule: "Steady Men!" Once per game, a unit of State Troops joined by the Captain may reroll a failed psychology check or Rally Check.


Other ideas:
Any unit of State Troops joined by the Captain of the Empire can reform immediately and for free if one of its detachments within 3 inches is charged.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 04:03:43 AM »
My main ideas around this guy are allowing him to be kept basic, or upgraded to a Hunter, Seneschual, Witch Hunter or Leader of Men
I would say 25pts each (only 1 allowed per captain). Let me know if you think this is too complicated for your intention.

Hunter has him equipped with less armour options than normal, with a scout option.

Seneschual has him equipped as per a Knight captain, with an ignore state troop panic rule, and a requirements to be used in a knight unit.

Witch Hunter has him equipped as per normal, with a hidden rule, and perhaps a set of special weapons.

Leader of Men has him equipped as per normal, with a rule which allows his leadership to be used within 6" in the same way as the general.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 04:20:42 AM by Warlord »
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10067
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 09:46:04 AM »
I would like stubborn and/or re roll for panic checks in 6" for the leader of man choice (similar to a kislevite boyar)

The hunter/ could have something like the scout rule and option to hochland long rifle (would put engineer even more away from the fighty role.


Offline kk14

  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 07:24:08 PM »
I like the upgrades idea, Warlord. As long as the rules are kept simple and few, it works. That said, balancing them will be hard, and they are more complicated than what I had put in. I like that most of the balancing is done with equipment.

I will think on it.

I also want to keep the 1/battle re-roll a psych check rule. Maybe that will be 'leader of men'.

I think the scout will be fine with a pistol. I don't think HLR should be available to any Captain. Stubborn is too much, but the re-roll psych within 6" might be a good compromise betweein 'Steady men' and Warlord's 'Leader of Men'.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 05:49:15 AM »
Reroll psych sounds good.

Basically the upgrades give a special rule and change the equipment options.

Captain
May have the following equipment:
Additional Hand Weapon, Halberd, Great Weapon, Lance
Handgun, Pistol, Brace of Pistols, Longbow
Shield, Light Armour, Heavy Armour, Full Plate
Warhorse, Barding, Pegasus

May choose one of the following upgrades - 25pts each.
Battle Standard Bearer
- May carry magic banners
Hunter
- May scout
- May not be equipped with any armour other than shield, nor ride any mount
Seneschual
- Character and knightly unit ignore state troop panic
- Free Barded Warhorse
Witch hunter
- May hide (like assassins)
- May have poisoned, killing blow, flaming and/or magical attacks for +5pts each. Cannot ride Pegasus.
Leader of Men
- Reroll psych tests within 6"
- Cannot ride Pegasus

What do you think?
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Davido

  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 07:56:59 AM »
I'd give the witch hunter killing blow and flaming for free but only against enemy wizards, kinda makes him fit in with the fluff better. maybe give him some anti magic items. I think that character would be pretty cool.
Yay my rocket battery finally killed something.What do you mean those are my halberdiers.

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 06:53:48 AM »
Confers Magic Resistance (1) on the unit he's with.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 07:11:42 AM »
Killing blow on Wizards is good actually. Perhaps remove it as a normal upgrade, and make it a standard ability for the Witch Hunter coupled with his 'hidden' ability.

I don't think he should have MR - Witch Hunters often travel with Warrior Priests; thats where the true magic protection should come from.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 08:10:47 AM »
If he has any MR to speak of it should simply be something like a dispel die.  since he would essentially be like unto a priest but without the prayers and more martial this would be something I could see a witch hunter having.  Essentially a faith in the Gods and an inherent disbelief in the competency of enemy magics to perform as intended, thus a dispel die which depending on the WH's faith this turn may be strong or weak. This should not be an always thing confering a constant d6 (for each spell) to the unit or WH but should be a single die per turn placed in the dispel die pool for each turn.   
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 11:39:07 PM »
No, it shouldn't.

Witch Hunters do not possess magical ability. Dispel dice and MR are inherent to magic beings. They know of and don't like magic, do not possess any ability in it, and attempt to kill those that do - all because magic is in essence chaotic.

Like I said, they often travel with Warrior Priests for them to provide the magic assistance.

Witch Hunters should not possess magic ability.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline kk14

  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 01:41:53 AM »
Define 'wizard'

How about Tomb Kings who cast invocations, Vampires, etc.
Killing blow on Vamps would be sweet.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 01:54:37 AM »
Define 'wizard'

How about Tomb Kings who cast invocations, Vampires, etc.
Killing blow on Vamps would be sweet.

You do raise a good point - it does make his rules a bit more complicated.

Anyone who inherently casts a spell. So normal wizards, tomb king priests and mummies, warrior priest priests, Vampires (are clearly wizards), Chaos Sorcerors, as well as Horrors. Characters or champions that carry a bound spell item and do not normally have the ability should not be able to be killing blowed by the Witch Hunter. Or should they?

The main question would be Treemen, Greater Demons, Vermin lords and the like. Should the Witch Hunter be able to Killing Blow big monsters? What about Ogre Butchers? My first instinct is no.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 03:32:24 AM »
Killing blow on any character who has actions in the Magic phase, I'm sticking to my guns on the dispel die though.  He just doen't believe that magic can be used against him, that belief to a witch hunter is as powerful as a warrior priests prayers. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline The newbie

  • Posts: 113
  • Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 03:34:37 AM »
how about any model with magic level 1+ that is US 1 before any mount is bought?

that removes ogres and greater daemons and any characters with bound items.
Fantasy GT09 Heat 1: 30th
LoTR GT09: 47th
LoTR GT10: 14th (and a member of the winning team)

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 03:42:00 AM »
hmmm what I'm meaning is any character who himself has as part of his profile an action in the magic phase which should include demons but not include frex, a brettonian lord with a bound spell as part of his equipment. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 05:28:10 AM »
I'm sticking to my guns on the dispel die though.  He just doen't believe that magic can be used against him, that belief to a witch hunter is as powerful as a warrior priests prayers.

He doesn't believe such a thing though. He knows that magic can hurt, which is why he hunts magic users.
Have you read the Witch Hunter handbook?
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline kk14

  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 07:54:01 AM »
Note: unless stated otherwise, killing blow does not affect models with US greater than 2 (mounts not included).

Tomb Kings and Princes inherently cast as well. Are they KB'd?

I say no MR, no DD, if we make a witch hunter option. Besides, can you imagine giving him 'hidden' and 'this unit has MR'?  lol
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

  • Posts: 1079
  • Adversus Malum Pugnamus
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 08:14:09 AM »
ahh welllll fair nuff then, I'll cede the point.  It still sounds groovy though :icon_wink:

and yeah I'd say then that KB should affect tomb kings and princes, as well as any elves, dwarves, etc with a US of 1. 

what do you think of including ogre butchers and demon characters minor and major. 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline kk14

  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2010, 06:13:15 PM »
Well, the rules for Killing Blow usually allow only models with US up to 2, so bigger things would be unaffected by Killing Blow.

Personally, I don't think Killing Blow is a very Empire ability. How about: has re-roll to hit and wound against? Or has +1 to hit, +1 to wound against? Or simply just 'hates spellcasters'

I have been thinking quite a bit about this, and have some questions, as I want to keep the captain as plain and simple as possible, while I also like many of the ideas here.

What if the options were magic items? (i.e. Headband of hunting - 10 points, Captain only this model gains the 'scouting' special rule; Hat of the witch hunter - 25 points, this model gains 'hidden' while not mounted and has Killing Blow (or a replacement) against any model that can cast spells (or bound spells)).

What if the options were like this:
Witch hunter: 10 points, cannot take magic items, has killing blow (or a replacement) against models that can cast spells (see above)
Scout: 10 points, cannot be mounted, nor can he wear full plate (or Armours that are the equivalent of Full plate)
Seneschal: 10 points, may only join a knightly orders unit, he and any unit he joins are immune to panic caused by allied infantry.
Leader of men:10 points All state troops within 6" may re-roll failed psychology checks. He may not be mounted
BSB: 25 points
Vanilla: 0 points, allows a unit he joins to re-roll a psychology test once per battle.

EDIT: Alternatively, we could turn the scouting one into a magic item, the Witch Hunter and Seneschal into unit champion upgrades, and make leader of men the basic, once per battle make a reroll on the Captain. This is actually simpler, I think, than trying to balance these different options. Also, we could change witch hunter to something like: 'this unit has eternal hatred against any model than generates dispel dice.'
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 06:19:20 AM by kk14 »
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 02:13:38 PM »
Scouting Captain can be a magic item.

Seneschual ignore panic could be a magic item.

Leader of men 6" infantry reroll psych can be base captain ability. Though it does kinda take away a good portion of the utility of the Imperial Banner...

Hows about we treat the Witch Hunter like Dark Elf Assassin then?
Unit upgrade for state troops (make pistoliers state troops also, but no ability for detachments).
Subset of item upgrades.
Perhaps Witch Hunter into a seperate topic?
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10067
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2010, 05:28:40 PM »
If you include the Witch Hunter how about this

hiding rules like assassin

magekiller - as soon as he is in contact with any spellcaster (prayers, invocations, bound spells etc. count) he can issue a seperate challenge in which he is allowed to re roll all to hit and to wound rolls.

Offline Ulricsberg

  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2010, 02:50:41 PM »
Me and a friend were discussing the option of having a captain able to issue orders to his parent unit, like the  Imperial Guard in 40k.

things like. 

1st rank fire, 2nd rank fire - Shooting units + detatchments may fire in two ranks if a leadership test is passed. (on flat terrain obviously)

Re-form - melee units can reform to face the attacker if charged in the flank if a leadership test at -1 is passed, if charged in the rear the test is at -2.

The idea is that Empire troops are supposed to be highly trained, not just a rabble. Captains and Generals for that matter should be barking orders.

Offline Frost27

  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2010, 12:41:31 AM »
I think the scout should be able to take a Hochland Long Rifle, or just give it as a Captain option in general. I know that sounds sort of engineer-ish, but I see the engineer as more of a support class whereas a Captain as a guy who can go out and get stuff done. Plus the captain already has BS5 which would essential for a sniper.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 8891
  • Sydney, Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2010, 09:56:20 AM »
Leader of Men ability obviously would be better in 8th ed as 'Units may use the Captain's leadership if within 6", just like the general'. The re-roll psych is now inherent to BSB's.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline TheElectorCount43

  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Re: Army Book: Captain of the Empire
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2011, 04:59:31 PM »
Because of the new Citadel Finecast range, the captain of the empire with hammer and pistol seems like a good buy..
I might just get it, give him Armour of meteoric iron and a sword (hammer) of might.
So he has a 1+ save, strength five, initiative 5 and an extra attack.
Pop him in a unit of Greatswords and leave him to it...