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Author Topic: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles  (Read 577 times)

Offline Padre

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Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« on: August 31, 2020, 10:29:53 AM »
I thought I ought to have a thread to allow discussion of matters relating to my Tilea campaign, as well as a place for me to put posts about the hobby aspect of it (in many forms).

Having just completed my first 'Play by e-mail' battle, where the Skaven assault the Brabanzon in the city of Ravola, I am now in the early stages of of starting the next battle: Duchess Maria's Undead are to attack Lord Alessio's Alliance army at the bridge of Pontremola.

The tabletop

Lord Alessio has the Tilean List 'Mercenary Command' skill "Strategist" which allows him to move two terrain pieces up to 6" in any direction. This skill doesn't make sense at the Bridge of Pontremola as he can't move the river or the bridge!  Also, the battlefield already appeared in an earlier battle so its layout is set (http://forum.oldhammer.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=38023#p38023) in which the following field of battle was fought over ...



And so I decided that Lord Alessio's skill would be represented by the player getting a say in the design of the fortified camp his army built at the bridge, which incorporated the river as a defensive feature (see a story about the camp's construction at http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,46787.msg1058253.html#msg1058253)

In terms of game play, first I sent three images to the player for camp layouts ...

Layout A

This layout features lots of earthwork and timber fortification, but not much room for maneouvre. The outer stone tower has been demolished to improve fields of fire. The whole of Alessio's side of the river is well fortified, with some room between defences and river for other troops.

The river, btw, in Spring, is in full flow, and will count as dangerous terrain even for infantry!

Layout B

This layout has a bit less fortification, some more maneouvre room. Both stone towers have been demolished, one having had a wooden bastion built over it suitable for a machine. The Bridge is well defended, the rest of the defences are further back from the river. This would allow missile  troops and engines to shoot over other troops heads BUT it would out them further back range-wise!

Layout C

Here there us more room for maneouvre, the bastions being a gun platform and for missile troops. Both stone towers are still intact, but there is more room to maneouvre around the bridge area.

I also listed the following possibilities

Possibility D - Even less defences, maybe just a big artillery bastion? Towers demolished or not.
Possibility E - Some other version described by the player with the river, bridge fixed, and towers either demolished or not.
Possibility F - March out and fight elsewhere in open ground. Some scenery. Your general gets to use his ability.

I told him to be aware that all troops could suffer if they attempt to cross the river. The river is in full spring flow. The enemy may lose a good few zombies in it.

I also stressed he should keep possibility F in mind if he doesn't want the defences and river to 'cramp his style' regarding tactics.

The player responded saying something between Layout B and C. So I came up with this, probably the final format ...

Final Layout




Not too much by the way of space-hogging defences. This layout is made to defend the bridge, giving deployment areas for troops, using river as defensive obstacle too whilst missile troops and engines can shoot over melee troops' heads!

The field of battle view shows both armies' deployment zones and the 24" field of fire from the main artillery bastion. One side of the bastion will struggle to see the other side of the field, but engines at the tip and on the bridge side get great views of the the centre and the bridge. Anything at the tip can see everything!

I also sent views of the towers with troops on to give a clear idea of the scale.

I hope Lord Alessio is happy!

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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2020, 10:45:28 AM »
Quite the effort with all of that! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:

Noticed in the first picture there is some terrain in front of the bridge that doesn't show up on the final selection.  Does that mean the defenders have cleared it all, even leveling the hills?
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Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2020, 10:53:55 AM »
I moved the river up because the camp was built behind it, and so I knew most of the hills would not feature. Then I was so keen on getting the pics to the player regarding camp layout, I forgot to place the two that might still be on the field.

I will either put the two outside ones on the field, or using a kind of 'artistic licence' (as they will have zero effect on the game being so far back and in the deployment zone of a non missile army) leave them out.

I'll probably stick them on though! Thanks for reminding me GP!

I might put some of the small hedges back on too, alongside the road area. Very little in the undead army would suffer terrain tests going over it though! But I reckon Lord Alessio might just have removed them to prevent someone (something) sneaking around behind them!
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2020, 12:20:07 PM »
True on the hedges.  Seems lot's of time and effort on building more fortifications, so would there have been time to take out whole hills?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 12:22:51 PM »
The rear line of hills aren't on the table any more as the area of battle has shifted and the river is further towards the middle. Only the two outer hills will go on the field. But considering they will make no tactical difference whatsoever, most likely, and their only contribution will be to tip up figures, I may not put them on!
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Offline Von Zorn

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 12:30:07 PM »
An excellent layout. This is not going to be an easy attack for the undead! Perhaps the water being able to flow through rib cages will make the river less dangerous for them!

I wonder if Duchess Maria is conscious of the fact that her predecessor's rampage was halted here in the past! Will Biagino remember he fought here as a brave mortal? Quite profound that the battle is taking place here, actually!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 12:33:46 PM by Von Zorn »

Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2020, 12:48:34 PM »
Interestingly, the undead cavalry have ethereal rule and so can travel over and through any terrain. That's got to help.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2020, 01:04:47 PM »
The rear line of hills aren't on the table any more as the area of battle has shifted and the river is further towards the middle. Only the two outer hills will go on the field. But considering they will make no tactical difference whatsoever, most likely, and their only contribution will be to tip up figures, I may not put them on!
Such is the value of visual integrity. :icon_wink: :icon_cool:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2020, 04:33:33 PM »
Here are where the new table edges are, so you can see how the rear line of hills are no longer on the battlefield. Now I have measured carefully I can see that more of the front two hills are on the field than I thought (I thought they would be chopped in half) so I will put them on!



Also, Damo just noticed that I have flipped the towers on the bridge, so that will definitely need correcting!
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Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2020, 05:33:12 PM »
We have the final, full field of battle!



And the final camp, with the large square bastion moved over the ruins of the correctly placed tower!





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Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2020, 11:33:40 AM »
The two allied Undead armies laid out for the player's perusal. He needs to get a feel for the sizes etc before issuing deployment orders!



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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2020, 12:08:08 PM »
Massive, the way a titanic WFB game can be! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2020, 06:11:52 PM »
Following. :)

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Forget the 6'x4' game, focus on the story beyond that. Because fantasy matters.

Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2020, 08:49:12 PM »
Just stopped for the night. We have deployed! Lots of discussion, and me taking lots of photos (for the story and for my players).

Here are two of my favourites so far ...

The Colossus of Portomaggiore


The zombie cultist hordes
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2020, 08:54:55 PM »
Presuming the Colossuss moves?  Will the undead be able to stop it?  Stay tuned!  :icon_cool: :icon_mrgreen:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2020, 09:15:54 PM »
It does. He paid dearly for it's inclusion in his army, in terms of campaign and points costs, and it is directed by a particular wizard, It slows his army down in the march (being hauled on massive wagons!)

It uses slightly modified Tomb Kings Heirotitan rules. It once stood over the gate of his city, but he brought it on campaign with him!!!!
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2020, 09:18:57 PM »
It causes me to cheer for Portomaggiore ...

Huzzah!  Huzzah!  Huzzah!
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2020, 09:29:43 PM »
I am in the very early stages of running the next play by e-mail game. I have a table top! Here is Ravola (last seen in battle 5 years ago!)



The Portomaggiorans will be assaulting it, with the vampire Biagino (and a much weaker force) defending.

Walled and moated - some challenge, huh?
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Offline Padre

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2020, 01:25:49 PM »
Here are the zones which need to be controlled for victory points.



Siege (assault) Ebino Scenario.

The moats are basically impassable - not just dangerous terrain. Except for the stone bridge, they can only be crossed by the mobile bridges.

This game has 9 defensive sections which can be contested for the victory conditions. There are also rules re: counting the inside 2 sections for more victory points. In terms of movement, however, towers and walls count as separate sections.

In a nutshell - there are 5 walls, a gate section and 4 towers to take or hold (that's 9 sections), with 2 more sections within for grabs (so a total of  11), in a 7 turn game. Either side needs to hold more sections than the enemy to win the game. It is a lot of sections, but it is a whole city!

I am likely to make it an 8 turn game if it seems very 'silly' to stop at 7, especially if the attackers are in the process of completely overwhelming the defenders, or vica versa! The fact that the moat needs crossing, means that the attackers know they are in for a long slog!

Note: As per the rules below, the defenders can split large (20+) regiments into two to defend neighbouring sections. That's fine. But, I will also allow attackers, once they take sections, to split a large regiment into two to do the same (provided it has 20 or more models remaining). Not to occupy the interior, but to hold sections.

..............................................................................................

Siege Rules for Tilean Campaign (various rules added and modified all though the campaign red)

Modified Building Rules incorp’ some 6th ed, pp.247 – 258 siege rules. GM indicates all sections at start of game - see above.

Castle Wall Sections & Castle Wall Gate sections.
Castle wall sections are 10” - 12” approximately. Can be assaulted using ladders.

Castle Wall Tower Sections & Tower Gate sections
Cannot be assaulted using ladders. Can be assaulted with siege towers.

Movement onto, off & between Castle sections
Use old rule: Defenders move onto a wall section by moving into contact with the wall. Also, they can move each turn from one section (wall or tower) to a neighbouring one.

How much room is there?
Each section (wall or tower) can only hold one unit, unless both units are 8 or less models. Large units (20+) can (at the GM’s discretion) split into two to defend different sections, usually neighbouring ones.

Assaulting Castle Wall Sections with ladders
Ladders can be relatively easily made, so infantry units are assumed to be equipped with ladders.

Charge: Each defended wall section can be assaulted by a single unit during each movement phase. Multiple charges are not allowed as the unit needs room to place its ladders (unless both units are less than 8 models). If multiple units are forced to charge a wall, then the controlling player decides which of the units reaching it gets to assault it. The other unit fails its charge.

Resolve the charge as if the wall was the target unit – free wheels, closing the door, bringing as many as possible into contact etc.

Charge reaction: Defenders can choose to flee, hold, or stand and shoot as normal. If they flee move them a distance from the base of the rear side of the wall. Fear and Terror have their normal effects, but because they are on a wall, defenders who fail terror can re-roll the test.

Fighting: The fight takes place via the ladders – defenders pushing ladders, dropping things, stabbing at the foe; attacker’s desperately ascending and trying to attack the defenders at the top and get over the parapet. There are no charging bonus for the attackers – no bonus, no impact hits, etc.

Who can strike: The attacking player chooses up to 9 models from the attacking unit to be in the fight, the defender chooses up to 12.

Bigger things:
Cavalry cannot assault castle walls. Monstrous Infantry or Beasts count as 3 models. Monsters (which fly or can reach the wall) count as 5 models.

Allocating attacks: Blows struck in Init’ order, but defenders have +1 Init. If characters are involved (& no challenge is occurring), up to 3 of the foe can choose to attack them (characters are doing their ‘derring do’ thing). Casualties are taken from the back as per normal, so extra models are assumed to ‘step up’ (in this case up the ladder!), assuming there are enough to do so.

Challenges:
A single challenge may be issued & accepted as normal, using models involved in assault or defence parties.

Special Attacks:
No-one can stomp. For items that affect models in base to base contact – assume each model is in base to base with one model.

Weapons: Two handed weapons or spears cannot be used by attackers, only hand weapons. If models are armed with 2H weapons or spears, assume they draw their hand weapons for the assault. If they gain the wall, those behind can pass or carry up their special weapons. Attackers cannot use the shield ward save or count their shields as part of their normal saving throw.

Modifiers: The attackers have a -1 to hit modifier due to hanging from a ladder! In addition (this makes castle walls better than simple stone walls) the defenders have a +1 to hit modifier.

Combat Resolution
Only wounds count for combat resolution points, including overkills from challenges. Standards, ranks, flank/rear, etc, do not apply. Musicians will still win a drawn combat. IE Combat based purely on casualties.

Note: In what ways are the defenders in a better position? (Answer) 12 of their models fight instead of 9 attackers. They get +1 Init, +1 to hit. Their enemy gets -1 to hit & can’t use specialised weapons or shields.

Defender Loses
Take a break test – they are allowed to re-roll a failed break test once per battle (after all they are defending the very place they would run to!) as if they are within the effect of an army standard. If defenders fail the break test they flee directly away from the inside base of the wall. The attacker occupies the wall OR if choosing not to, moves back 1” from the wall. Undead (being unstable) lose models as usual due to defeat, but as defenders they count as if within the range of the battle standard, and so suffer one less wound than normal.

Other results (draw, passed defender break test or attacker loses)
If the defender passes the Break test or draws/wins the combat, the attacker is nudged 1” back from the wall. Close combat ends, and another assault can be tried next turn if the attacker wishes. Assaulting unit does not need a Break test if they lose the combat as they know the defenders are not going to pursue and run them down.

Attacking from one already occupied section to another
This is resolved using 8th ed. building rules, except the defenders can opt to flee (moving to the next section or out into the courtyard - player's choice). The attackers can pursue (they just need a higher pursuit roll to reach and destroy. If they fail to reach they end up occupying the section they assaulted.

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Panic Tests and Castle Walls
Units garrisoning walls get to re-roll panic tests because it should feel pretty safe on the walls.

Shooting from walls
If the wall is big enough to hold two ranks (usually are), then two ranks can shoot as usual.

Shooting from Wall Towers
Assume shooting works like a building with two levels.

Shooting at defenders on a Castle Wall
Must be able to trace a line of sight to the wall section. The defenders are in hard-cover. The garrison too spread out to be affected by multiple rank piercing weapons.

Template weapons
Apply as usual to the men on the wall – whose bases are covered etc

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shooting at the Castle sections (i.e. war machines shooting)

Use the siege rules in the old 2006 rulebook, pp. 252 – 253. Cannons auto hit, except see p. 252 chance that hit tower/wall instead of gate. Remember that gates with portcullises have a -1 modifier to the damage chart. Once a gate is destroyed, the gate tower becomes a normal tower using normal building assault rules.

Adapt/modify 6th ed rules for movement, grappling hooks, siege towers, cauldrons/boiling oil, rocks, rams, mantlets, siege towers etc. Fighting over rubble same as fighting over a defended obstacle (wall)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Siege Towers (Modified from Ed 6 rules)

Can attack towers and walls.

Movement
Moves 2D6 towards the wall before the start of the battle (reflecting its defensibility). Then it moves at the normal move rate of those pushing it, being 4” for men. It can charge to reach the walls as per the normal rules. 12 men are needed to push this big tower - its move is reduced by 1” for every 2 men less than this.

Crew and pushers
Up to 8 men can occupy the top level of the tower, the rest of the unit being below to push it. The men on the tower can shoot missile weapons as if occupying a building (note, there can be 8 on this large tower, all on the top, not 5/floor as in buildings).

If troops attack the tower, the attack the pushers (who array as per skirmishers to receive the attack).

Shooting at the tower
+1 for shooting at a large target. Distribute hits 1-2 crew on the tower, 3-6 tower. Can try to shoot the pushers, but they  (most likely) count as in hard cover or soft cover. If tower destroyed, all those riding it need to pass I test or suffer Str5 hit.

Assaulting the walls/towers
Up to 8 men can attack from the tower against up to 8 defenders, with charge bonuses as usual in the first turn of combat and none of the penalties of using ladders. The pushers count as rear ranks for the purpose of replacing casualties, but not for rank bonuses.

Tower: WS0   T7   W6   I1

----------------------------------------------------------------

Victory Conditions

 
A castle/fortress/city walls is divided into a number of sections (wall, tower, wall-gate, tower-gate, sections of bigger towers). GM outlines these at start of game (as usually some clarification on classification necessary). The castle/city interior can also count as up to two sections.

Game lasts 7 -8 turns (GM determined)

The attackers force must capture fortress; the defenders must defend and repel the assault. To do so, both sides need to capture, hold and control sections - the number they have at the end of turn 7 (or turn 8) determines the result. Only GM identified sections count towards the result. To control a section, a player must have an unbroken unit within it. Flying units cannot claim sections. If a section is contested, it cannot be claimed. Units fleeing in a section do not count as contesting it. Unengaged and not fleeing units within the city also count as having captured or held a section, but to a maximum of two - see the areas on the map - and only if there are no unengaged, non-fleeing enemy in the same section.

Results

Draw: Both sides have an exactly equal number of sections. Attackers are still besieging the castle next turn, defenders stay in possession. All regain casualties as per Draw rules, with a +1 modifier to the recovery rolls for any dead characters and monsters, and most units who fled the field can make casualty recovery rolls (this applies to defenders who flee from the table edge inside the walls, and attackers who flee from the table edge outside the walls).

Minor Victory: One side has one extra controlled section.

If the defenders are up by one, the attackers are still besieging but sort casualties as per the normal Draw rules. The defenders stay in possession of the fortress, and regain casualties as per the Draw rules, but with +1 modifier to the recovery rolls for any dead characters and monsters, and any units who fled the table (from the edge inside the walls) can make casualty recovery rolls.

If the attackers have won, the defenders flee the fortress to a neighbouring hex, the attackers possess the castle and hex. The attackers regain casualties as per the Draw rules, but with +1 modifier to the recovery rolls for any dead characters and monsters, and any units who fled the field can make casualty recovery rolls. The defenders take casualties as per the Draw rules.

Victory: If one side has 2 or greater controlled sections more the other.

Sort casualties according to the win/lose rules. If the defender wins, the attackers retreat to the next hex, although if they outnumber the defenders by 2 to 1 in points then they can stay in the hex and continue to count as besieging next turn. If the attackers win, defenders inside the castle become prisoners, defenders outside flee to neighbouring hex.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario specific rules


Mobile moat bridges and petard


The petard
I put a question on an 8th edition WFB forum but got no answers. Xmas distractions?

Movement: With 8 men attending, with 4 of them pushing, it can march move. Once the attendants fall below 2, it cannot march. Once there are no attendants,  it loses 1" movement per lost pusher. It must be pushed right up to the gate, then the fuse lit.

Explosion: I reckon we should modify the shooting at the gates rules from 6th ed, p.252 -253. Auto hit the gate (for obvious reasons - it will be placed right against it). Roll artillery dice twice for misfire chance (as per the packing an extra charge rule) but the worst misfire result actually counts as a success!!!!! Damage cause = Str 10 + D6 +2. That's a +2 to the standard rules. 15+ breaks the gate, 16 + destroys it utterly (so need a 3+ roll on the D6). If it's a miss a turn type misfire, it can be relit by one of the petardiers for another try!

The moat bridges
These will start behind the 24" line, with the pushing unit behind, and can march move unless they have to do anything other than a straight line forwards. They should be dropped at the start of turn 3, and although technically the carriage has to be pulled aside, I will allow the unit behind to declare a charge over and against the walls (should be a 10" charge). A failed charge means that the rolling aside of the carriage prevented their progress! They can then attempt their charge in turn 4

Movement: With 15 men pushing, and at least 5 attending, the bridge can march move normally. Once the attendants fall below 5, it can only march move in a straight line, if it turns it is a non-march move. Once it falls below 15 pushers, it cannot march move at all.  At only 10 pushers it loses 1" movement, then 2" lost for 7, 3" lost for 4. At 3 or less, it cannot move at all.



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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2020, 02:01:29 PM »
Awesome detail on the siege rules!  :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

Offline S.O.F

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Re: Companion Thread to Tilea's Troubles
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2020, 02:53:34 PM »
The petard
I put a question on an 8th edition WFB forum but got no answers. Xmas distractions?


I was just curious as to whether pertard rules were covered in any of WAB or older WFB stuff I had came up with nothing. I wonder if the Warhammer ECW book had petard rules.

WAB Siege and Conquest is a very useful book but for the most part your translations of older WFB stuff is pretty much on par with the rules found there.
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