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Author Topic: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)  (Read 8393 times)

Offline Marwynn

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The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« on: October 09, 2010, 06:43:27 AM »
This is very much a work-in-progress and merely a thought-exercise, not a presentation of anything resembling balanced at this point.


THE EMPIRE

ARMY WIDE RULES


STATE TROOPS
The Empire is home to the largest body of professional soldiers in the Old World, a grim necessity as it is constantly beset by implaccable and ancient foes. The strength of the Empire's armies lies in its highly trained and disciplined State Troops. These normal men have stood against living horrors and won, and do so everyday.

State Troops are made of Main and Auxiliary inits. Though Main and Auxiliary units can be formed out of the same unit type, their roles on the battlefield differ greatly.

MAIN UNITS
These regiments form the battle line of any Empire Army. They're expected to act in coordination with other Main units on the overall battle. Characters may only join Main units. Only Main units may purchase Magic Items.

Parade Ground Precision - Main units may ignore the 1" spacing between other Main units.

Forward! - When rolling for charge distances, Main units may use the higher charge distance results of another Main unit within 6" to maintain line cohesion.

Plug the Gap! - If a Main unit breaks in combat, or is completely destroyed, or flees then Main units within 3" may Plug the Gap! (Swift Reform) even if it is already in combat. Must pass a Leadership test. The intent is for closely deployed units to expand to cover the gap caused by the broken or fleeing Main unit. Plug the Gap! is performed right after the broken unit flees (if not destroyed outright) and right before the pursuers move.


AUXILIARY UNITS
These regiments support the Main units, working to protect the flanks or screen the army. They're expected to aid a Main unit in combat. Auxiliary units never cause Panic in the Empire army and do not count against the Core minimum requirement.

Push Back! - Auxiliary units not in combat can be called up to shore up holes in the line. If a Main unit breaks or flees within 6" or is destroyed, then the Auxiliary unit can declare a charge against the enemy unit that is pursuing, during the Combat Phase. Combat doesn't actually occur till the next Combat Phase. The Auxiliary unit must not have marched that turn.

Just Passing By - Auxiliary units may move, charge, or march through Main units not in combat as long as the Auxiliaries do not end their movement within a Main unit. Must have enough movement to not be placed inside a Main unit.

Cover Fire – If a Main unit successfully charges an enemy then Auxiliaries within 3” may provide cover fire by shooting their missile weapons at the same target during the Movement Phase. They cannot fire again during the Shooting Phase. The Auxiliary unit must not have marched that turn.

Support Fire – Auxiliaries may declare a Stand and Shoot reaction when a Main unit within 3” is charged by the enemy. They do not suffer the -1 Penalty for Stand and Shoot. Must not have been charged that turn else they shift the Stand and Shoot against one of the units charging them and suffer the standard penalty.

Counter Charge – When a Main unit is charged or is charging that turn, an Auxiliary unit within 3” may declare a Counter Charge. Even if the Auxiliary must normally charge the front facing it may charge the flank as long as it has LOS and the charge roll is successful.


MILITIA
Vagabonds, patriots, criminals, and everyday luckless heroes, the Empire’s Militia is a ragtag mix of necessity and desperation. Though they appear similar to the State Troops they are far, far less disciplined but sometimes much more eager to fight.

Archers, Free Company, Crossbowmen, and Spearmen can be taken as Militia instead of as State Troops and do not count against the Core minimum requirement. Militia, for various reasons such as drunkenness, ignorance, or even heroism, have the following effects:

Independently Minded - May use only use their own Leadership value unless a Character joins their unit. Insane Courage on 1s and/or 6s.
Vagabonds - They do not cause Panic in the Empire army, except to other Militia units. Militia units have the free option to become Skirmishers at the start of the game. Militia may not purchase Standard Bearers or unit upgrades.
Huntsmen - Archers and Crossbowmen may purchase the Scout upgrade at +2 Points Per Model. Limit 1 per 1000 points.
Forward Force - Spearmen and Free Company may purchase the Vanguard upgrade at +2 Points Per Model.  Limit 1 per 1000 points.
Archers and Crossbowmen - Unit Size is limited to 5-15. Archers and Crossbowmen are considered to have several varied and interesting hand weapons in close combat. The unit has D6 bonus attacks in each combat phase.
Spearmen and Free Company - Unit Size is limited to 10-25. Spearmen and Free Company are considered to be equipped with a variety of personal, small ranged weapons but for simplicity’s sake treat them as using pistols. Unit has D6 pistol attacks per shooting phase and may Stand and Shoot.


COMMANDERS OF THE EMPIRE

Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
General        4  6  5  4 4 3 5 3  9
Grand Master   4  6  4  4 4 3 6 4  9
Captain        4  5  5  4 4 2 5 2  8
Equipment: Heavy Armour, Handweapon
General: Tactics of the Empire; Ancestral Heirlooms; Leader of Men
Grand Master: Tactics of the Empire; Battlemaster; Leader of Men
Captain: Tactics of the Empire; Battle Standard Bearer; Leader of Men


GENERAL
Tactics of the Empire: Generals of the Empire know 3 Orders from the Tactics of the Empire list and have a command range of 18". May purchase 2 additional Orders at +10 Points each.
Ancestral Heirlooms: If your army is led by a General of the Empire then State Troops units may purchase Magic Banners with a combined total of 50 points. State Troops that are Special choices can have their Champions purchase Magic Items as well, but the total Magic Banners and Items must not exceed 50 points for all State Troops. Additional Generals of the Empire add 25 points to this total.
Leader of Men:If your army is led by a General of the Empire then all Empire units count as having an extra rank for Steadfast purposes. The General's unit is Stubborn. If already Stubborn then the unit becomes Immune to Panic. These bonuses disappear should the General be killed or flee off the field.

GRAND MASTER
Tactics of the Empire: Grand Masters know 1 Order from the Tactics of the Empire list and have a command range of 12". May purchase 2 additional Orders at +15 Points each.
Battlemaster: Immune to Psychology. Causes Fear.
Leader of Men: If your army is led by a Grand Master then any unit he joins counts as Stubborn unless he joins a unit of Knights: then the unit also gains Immune to Psychology. These bonuses disappear should the Grand Master be killed or flee off the field.

CAPTAIN
Tactics of the Empire: Captains know 1 Order from the Tactics of the Empire list and have a command range of 9". May purchase 2 additional Orders at +10 Points each.
Battle Standard Bearer: May become a Battle Standard Bearer at +25 Points. May purchase any Magic Banner or 50 points of Magic Items. May not lead the army.
Leader of Men: If your army is led by a Captain of the Empire then any unit he joins may re-roll to-hit rolls. The bonus disappears should the Captain be killed or flee off the field.


TACTICS OF THE EMPIRE
Empire Generals, Grand Masters, and Captains are schooled in the art of war, wielding their forces as effortlessly and skillfully as a swordsman does a blade. They have the ability to give unit specific Orders to State Troops within their range of command (18" for Generals, 12" for Grand Masters,  9" for Captains). The unit receiving the order must roll a Leadership test using the Order giver's Ld, if they pass the order is carried out. A State Troops unit may only carry out one Order per turn. A Commander of the Empire may only give out as many Orders as he knows; it may be the same Order applied to different units.

Rapid Reform (General only)
Movement Phase.
Unit may perform a Reform and may still move normally and shoot this turn.

Intercept (General only)
Enemy Movement Phase or Combat Phase.
A unit that has not marched that turn and is not in combat may be issued an Intercept order. The unit charges an enemy unit that has charged a friendly unit this turn, or is pursuing a friendly unit. Move the enemy unit halfway first, then roll for the interceptors' charge. If the enemy unit is pursuing and catches, they destroy the unit as normal but will still be intercepted before reforming.

On the Double (General and Grand Master only)
Movement Phase.
Unit gains +D3 to its Movement this turn for Marching purposes only. Cannot be given another order that is activated in the Movement Phase in the next turn.

Come About (General and Grand Master only)
Compulsory Movement Sub-Phase.
Unit rallies automatically and may Swift Reform.

Ready Fire (General only)
Shooting Phase.
Unit may shoot even if it has moved or marched this turn as long as it is not in combat. Must pass an Initiative test or else suffer an additional -1 Penalty to shooting.

Incline
Charge Reaction.
Unit may change facing once as a Charge Reaction. Must not already be in combat.

Hold! Hold!... Fire!
Charge Reaction.
Resolve unit's Stand and Shoot reaction as if it were made at Short Range instead of Long Range. Must not already be in combat.

Fire at Will
Shooting Phase.
Unit gains the Multiple Shots rule but suffers the -1 Penalty this Shooting Phase and the next Shooting Phase. Cannot be given another Shooting Phase order in the next turn.

Raise Shields
Remaining Moves Sub-Phase.
Unit equipped with Shields gains +1 Armour Save against shooting attacks to the front this turn. May not Charge (or attempted to have charged) this turn.

Swift Reform
Movement Phase
Units that do not have a Musician may perform a Swift Reform. No additional Leadership test is required.

Into Them!
Movement Phase
Unit gains Swiftstrider rule. Cannot be given another Movement Phase order in the next turn.


CORE UNITS

HALBERDIERS 5 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Halberdier     4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Sergeant       4  3  3  3 3 1 3 2  7
Light Armour, Halberd, Hand Weapon
State Troops; Wall of Pike;
Unit Size: 10+
Halberd - Unit gains +1 Strength on all attacks and also gains +1 Initiative when fighting Cavalry and Beasts.
Wall of Pike - On the turn a unit of Halberdiers are charged to the front an extra rank may attack to the front.

SPEARMEN 5 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Spearman       4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Sergeant       4  3  3  3 3 1 3 2  7
Light Armour, Shield, Spear, Hand Weapon
State Troops; Militia; Wall of Pike
Unit Size: 10+
Spear - Unit fights in three total ranks to the front, including Supporting Attacks on turns the unit did not charge.
Wall of Pike - On the turn a unit of Spearmen are charged to the front, the unit has the Armour Piercing rule for attacks to the front.

SWORDSMEN 6 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Swordsman      4  4  3  3 3 1 4 1  7
Sergeant       4  4  3  3 3 1 4 2  7
Light Armour, Shield, Sword (Hand Weapon)
State Troops; Duellists
Unit Size: 10+
Duellists - At the start of each combat phase, instead of attacking normally, Swordsmen may elect to sacrifice their attack but increase their Parry save to a 5+ Ward. They may instead choose to lower their Initiative by 1 and lose the Parry save to gain +1 Attack, though Supporting Attacks still only allow for one attack from the second rank.

CROSSBOWMEN 7 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Crossbowman    4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Marksman       4  3  4  3 3 1 3 1  7
Crossbow, Hand Weapon
State Troops; Militia; Pavise
Unit Size: 10+
Pavise - +2 Points Per Model. Made popular in the Empire by Tilean mercenaries, a wall of pavise shields are lain protectively side by side as makeshift cover. Provides a -1 Penalty against shooting attacks to the front of the unit, must not have marched that turn.

HANDGUNNERS 7 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Handgunner     4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Marksman       4  3  4  3 3 1 3 1  7
Handgun, Hand Weapon
State Troops; Pavise
Unit Size: 10+
Pavise - +2 Points Per Model. Made popular in the Empire by Tilean mercenaries, a wall of pavise shields are lain protectively side by side as makeshift cover. Provides a -1 Penalty against shooting attacks to the front of the unit, must not have marched that turn.

ARCHERS 7 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Archer         4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Marksman       4  3  4  3 3 1 3 1  7
Light Armour, Longbow, Hand Weapon
State Troops; Militia; Pavise
Unit Size: 10+
Pavise - +2 Points Per Model. Made popular in the Empire by Tilean mercenaries, a wall of pavise shields are lain protectively side by side as makeshift cover. Provides a -1 Penalty against shooting attacks to the front of the unit, must not have marched that turn.

FREE COMPANY 5 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Fighter        4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Brawler        4  3  3  3 3 1 3 2  7
Light Armour, Two Hand Weapons
State Troops (Auxiliary); Militia; Rowdy
Unit Size: 10+
Militia – Free Company can only be taken as Militia or as Auxiliary units.
Rowdy - When taken as Militia the unit gains the Swiftstrider rule.

KNIGHTS 23 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Knight         4  4  3  3 3 1 4 1  8
Preceptor      4  4  3  3 3 1 4 2  8
Full Plate Armour, Barded Warhorse, Hand Weapon, Lance and Shield or Great Weapon
State Troops (Main units only); Knight Orders; Inner Circle
Unit Size: 5+
State Troops - Knights may never be Auxiliary units.
Inner Circle - +3 Points Per Model, gains Strength 4 but unit now counts as a Special Choice.
Knight Orders[/u[ - +2 Points Per Model (Optional). All Knights belong to one Order and these have served the Empire proudly, though some Orders are far older and more storied than others. May also upgrade to these Orders' Inner Circle Knights at an addtional +5 Points Per Model, but the unit now counts as a Special choice.
Knights of the White Wolf - Stubborn. Must use Great Weapons. Inner Circle: Strength 4, Toughness 4.
Knights Panther - Re-roll failed to-hit and to-wound rolls. Inner Circle: Strength 4, Immune to Psychology on the turn they charge.
Reiksguard - Weapon Skill 5. Inner Circle: Strength 4, Devastating Charge.
Knights of the Blazing Sun - Requires one less rank to disrupt ranks. Inner Circle: Strength 4, and Magical, Flaming Attacks on the turn they charge.


SPECIAL UNITS

GREATSWORDS 10 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Greatsword     4  4  3  3 4 1 4 1  8
Victor         4  4  3  3 4 1 4 2  8
Full Plate Armour, Greatsword (Great Weapon), Hand Weapon
State Troops (Main units only); Stubborn; Bodyguard
Unit Size: 10+
Bodyguard - Characters in Greatsword units can choose to not be targetted in close combat as long as there is one Greatsword in the unit to protect each of those that want protection. Character must not be in a challenge.
Options:
Shield: +2 Points Per Model. May choose to use Greatsword or Shield and Hand Weapon before combat begins. (May exchange Greatsword for Shield at no cost. Call them Elite Swordsmen or something.)


PISTOLIERS 18 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Pistolier      4  3  3  3 3 1 3 1  7
Reiter         4  3  4  3 3 1 3 2  7
Warhorse, Light Armour, Brace of Pistols, Hand Weapon
Fast Cavalry; Pistol Charge; FIee and Fire
Unit Size: 5+
Pistol Charge - When charging, Pistoliers each fire a loaded pistol at nearly point blank range. After successfully rolling for a charge, each Pistolier may make a Pistol shooting attack as if they were 1" away from their target. The enemy unit doesn't test for panic.
Flee and Fire - Charge Reaction. Instead of declaring a Stand and Shoot or a Flee reaction, Pistoliers can declare a Flee and Fire. As soon as the enemy unit enter's the pistol's range the Pistoliers fire and the unit "stops". If the unit is already within range then the Pistoliers shoot then Flee. Else, the Pistoliers Stand and Shoot at max range, then Flees. The charging unit does not complete its original charge move any further and may choose to pursue or restrain themselves.
Upgrades
Outriders: +3 Points Per Model. Unit replaces Brace of Pistols for Repeater Handguns. Reiter may have a Repeater Pistol and Pistol instead of a Repeater Handgun for free, or a Hochland Long Rifle for +5 Points. Unit loses 'Pistol Charge' but keeps 'Flee and Fire'.

REITERS 22 Points
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Reiter         4  3  4  3 3 1 3 2  7
Lancer         4  4  4  3 3 1 3 2  7
Warhorse, Heavy Armour, Gun-Lance, Hand Weapon, Pistol
Medium Cavalry;
Unit Size: 5+
Medium Cavalry - The unit has Free Reform and Fire on the March rules.
Gun-Lance - One use only, on the first successful charge. Strength 5, Killing Blow, Ignores Armour Saves.

GREAT CANNON 100 Points


MORTAR 85 Points

Offline osterknact

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2010, 09:40:22 PM »
may be a tad bit overpowered like the effort and system though!

Offline Novogord

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2010, 07:33:36 PM »
The last unit reminds me of Polish Lancers with their special lances and something from 40k (rough riders).
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Offline Marwynn

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 03:40:22 PM »
Yep, I borrowed liberally from the Imperial Guard book. At least, in concept. I always felt that the Rough Riders would fit in with The Empire though, what with their gunpowder and cavalry; back then, when I was an IG player, the Knights and Pistoliers of the Empire were at their height of coolness.

Osterknact, thanks. Balancing and trimming can be done, of course, but I'm no master at that as I tend to be quite biased.

Question: State Troops wearing Heavy Armour, should they be Special choices or just "non-minimal Core"?

I was thinking of providing that as an upgrade, perhaps at +2 points each, to some of the State Troops.

In the future: Lore of the Empire? Wizards and Battle Wizards, Warrior Priests and Steam Tanks, and Provincial bonuses (maybe).

Offline GambitGriffin

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 06:51:18 PM »
Make one unit of statetroops wear heavy armour or even full plate if you take a general. They are part of the force the counts are required to have by the emperor and the general is their commander. He must be deployed with them and at the same time.
Not sure about point cost, +1 for HA and +2 for FPA?

Offline Marwynn

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2010, 02:14:09 AM »
I would say +2 for Heavy Armour and no options for FPA, that's the realm of the Greatswords: it's a fairly significant upgrade.

Any ideas on the rules so far, gents?


Dragoons (Special)
Code: [Select]
               M WS BS  S T W I A Ld
Dragoon        4  3  4  3 3 1 4 1  8
Sergeant       4  3  4  3 3 1 4 1  8
Heavy Armour, Shield, Handgun, Hand Weapon
State Troops; Fire on the March; Vanguard

This is just a concept of a unit. Dragoons were mounted infantrymen who dismounted to fight. They didn't fight on horseback (originally) but used the horsies to get into position. This unit is meant to represent those fellas, not the light cavalry they became.

Initially, I thought that Scouts would do the trick, but that would be too much. So Vanguard seemed like a good choice.

Offline Hendrid

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 12:04:40 AM »
I like the whole Demi-lancer/light or lighter cavalry thing but I don't think the Reiter is the way to go. A bit too steam punk feel to it.

Interesting idea though.

Offline Johedl

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 02:59:36 AM »
Why should the Empire have all special rules for giving orders? It seems to me that the rules all ready ignores orders to make the game system easier and faster and if we have them then why not Dwarf, High Elves, Dark Elves or any other army list with standing armies and trained commanders?

Offline Marwynn

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2010, 05:00:43 AM »
Simple: Because this is an Empire Army ideas thread and not a HE/DE/Dwarf thread.

Facetiousness aside, my 8th Ed High Elves thread (on ulthuan.net) incorporates many of these things, however not as Orders. I have expanded on it for the Empire seeing as how they don't have Always Strikes First troops or those with Eternal Hate or T4 and S4 and whatnot.

Discipline is the foundation of the Empire army, and orders are what set them apart. Not greater fighting prowess, but tactics.

It is extremely possible that I have far too many Orders up there, I haven't bothered editing yet still trying to nail down the magic/divine and the gunpowder side of things before I go back and iterate on the Orders.

But this list will keep them in one way or another.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2010, 11:55:08 AM »
I would like a rule for the General

"A leader not a killer!" 

The General makes the unit he joines stubborn and he also has 18 " leadership bubble with his ld of 9.

Offline Helgrim

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 11:10:00 PM »
Also orders should be foe just the Empire to better represent the fact that it is the *only* standing army in the warhammer world.

Offline jimbibbly

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 07:38:03 AM »
I would like a rule for the General

"A leader not a killer!" 

The General makes the unit he joines stubborn and he also has 18 " leadership bubble with his ld of 9.

Agreed, but have the increased zone only when he is on his own (leading from the back as it were) and not in a unit.

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Offline LordMunchkin

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 09:38:30 PM »
I think you've done a great job to shift the focus of the empire away from magic and religion to discipline and interconnectedness. Personally, that's the way I'd like it. We're an army of men, not one of magicians. :biggriin:

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2011, 09:41:43 AM »
I think empire now are quite well done, th only real unit choice we lack right now is a medium cav unit (outriders don't count) something like:

Imperial Rieters
In order to take the pressure of scouting duties and highway protection from the Pistoliers and outriders, the Imperial Rieter corps was formed from several large and powerful knightly orders and the Imperial Schools of warfare, the Reiters incorporate professional soldiers and young knights/nobles and train them to act as a body of fast moving medium cavalry, not as ponderous or devastating as the Knightly orders, but able to assist in running down fleeing troops and harassing the flanks of units in a battleline, these professional soldiers are a very great addition to any Imperial Generals arsenal.


            M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
Reiter   4    4    3    3  3  1  4  1   7
Horse   8    3    0    3  3  1   3  1   5                                      15pts per model
Equipment; Heavy armour, lance, hand weapon, warhorse.
May take; Pistols for +4pts a model.
Or instead may take shields for +2pts per model
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline finngoalie

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Re: The Empire (In Light of 8th Edition)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2012, 10:09:35 PM »
Maybe next edition guys. This edition's author doesn't even know we exist.