Topic: Empire Hordes

[Moopy]

My escalation campaign is ramping up and Im faced with the choice - to horde or not to horde?

I wrote an army list with 40-man units of swordsmen and halberdiers that I was planning on running as hordes but I am wondering if it wouldn't be best to play them in 6x5 blocks of 30 guys instead. The 40-man block seems like too much when I could put points elsewhere and buff other more elite units. Im thinking that other armies play better hordes than Empire, and in a list already supported by warmachines and a level 4 wizard, I should be good and able to thin my opponents before they reach me. How do you guys run your State Troops in games over 2,000 points? If you've ran a horde, how did it do?

[Davido]

I like hordes, I find they are pretty good in the new edition as the enemy has to kill all of the guys in the unit to get any VP's. Also if you are taking alot of missile fire you can just reform them out of horde formation to preserve your rank bonus, that has saved me quite a few times.

hope that helped

[warhammerlord_soth]

I used 50 man halberdier and spear hordes so far.

Drop in a WP or even AL and you get a killing machine. The large size is points denial, and creative use of the various reforms gives you the neccessary flexibility.

I'd recommend hordes any time. Combined with adequate artillery of course.

[Derek Contyre]

I don't find 10 wide hordes that good personally, too hard to manuever and so easy to nullify with large magic blasts and other artillery with templates.

I have been running my state troop blocks in units of 40 but six wide and 8 deep, then buffing them with light spells to dramatically increase their combat output. I find that they chew through anything, except probably chaos warriors or other elite heavily armoured multi attack troops.

Also, support stuff like detachments and artillery to make our lives easier...

Also, Helstorms for the win.

[Talben21]

I think its really lame how powerful chaos warriors are. Its like they are the Space Marines of WFB.

They made a lot more sense in 6th edition. Very, very good but nothing Godly like they are now.

[Fandir Nightshade]

?



why....and how? Empire has no problem dealing with chaos warriors as it is.

With what unit size of Chaos Warriors at what point size which markings and which characters in his unit do you have trouble?

[Beowolf]

Yea, I kinda agree on WoC, they are a though bunch to dance with. specialy the chosen.
Thier Knights is okay too deal with thou, but when his warriors hit your lines you better be prepeared for it and have a plan and backup units to flank em.

I know ppl love the HBR, and it is good against Chaos. But I prefear 1-2 HBVG with a engineer when faceing em.

[Talben21]

?



why....and how? Empire has no problem dealing with chaos warriors as it is.

With what unit size of Chaos Warriors at what point size which markings and which characters in his unit do you have trouble?

I just meant from a concept standpoint. Back in 6th edition elite troops were very good, but having any body with 2 attacks was extremely rare. Then in 7th they added all types of attacks. Chaos Warriors, Saurus, Grail Knights; they all had their attacks increased. You just never had troops like that in 6th and I think it made for a better gaming experience.

[Warlord]

Agree.

Fortunately, 8th has helped single attack models as they are not penalised for second rank attacks the same way elite are.

[black,water]

I run a horde of halberdiers with a wp, horde greatswords (havent tried with a wp but i suspect it would be fun) and a horde flaggelants.

Havent lost an 8th game yet. Only played 7-8 or so though.

Thing is, people forget you dont HAVE to have them in horde formation, they can be reformed etc etc. or placed in a non horde formation for starters.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Elite infantry was really....really really really bad in 6th edition....chaos warriors in our gaming group were called the Dodos of Warhammer as their only mission in games was to die in a hail of fire and flail away at some statetroopers and lose the CR.

Right now elite infantry has elite feel to it, you HAVE to stop them or grind them down 18 chaos warriors have their issues with 60 halberdiers

[Eighty]

i saw 17 tzeench chaos warriors survive a charge from a stegadon, 30 saurus/spears and a 7 attack scarred vet.. the great rolling by the WoC player was a big part of it yes, but i dont know anything that i could field that would take that many attacks and still survive

having said that i played the same lizardman, my cannon removed the old blood, who paniced the saurus off the field (fuck yeah!) and my halberd horde w/ AL (GW and hammer of sigmar buff) destroyed the stegadon on his charge, giving me the reform to charge into his salamanders and take the game.

go go first use of halberd horde! you bet I will be running it again

[Archon]

In my playtests, they've been fantastic--- even if you just run 50 halbs 5 wide and 10 deep, the points denial is amazing.

Unfortunately, I don't have the models to do something like this in any real games, and I probably won't for a long time (need to round out my characters, and oh yeah.. those Dark Eldar for 40k came out... at least another 9 months before I get more state troops).

Definitely use them when able!

[Union General]

I never run units smaller than 20. Period. With detachments, I rarely go below 30 (including parent unit and detachment strength).

-The General

[Eighty]

I never run units smaller than 20. Period. With detachments, I rarely go below 30 (including parent unit and detachment strength).

-The General

a lesson i have learnt through the spilling of my brave swordsmens blood

swordsmen?
swordsmans
swordsmench

[Delthos]

I was running spearmen hordes when hordes weren't cool! In other words 7th edition and I've carried on into 8th.

[Peasant Count]

i saw 17 tzeench chaos warriors survive a charge from a stegadon, 30 saurus/spears and a 7 attack scarred vet.. the great rolling by the WoC player was a big part of it yes, but i dont know anything that i could field that would take that many attacks and still survive

With the 3+ward and stubborn from the eye of the gods chart; nastiest unit in the game IMO.

On the topic - I like my 48 Great Swords Horde with an Archlector and BSB, very formidable. 

[Duke Igthorn]

i saw 17 tzeench chaos warriors survive a charge from a stegadon, 30 saurus/spears and a 7 attack scarred vet.. the great rolling by the WoC player was a big part of it yes, but i dont know anything that i could field that would take that many attacks and still survive

With the 3+ward and stubborn from the eye of the gods chart; nastiest unit in the game IMO.

On the topic - I like my 48 Great Swords Horde with an Archlector and BSB, very formidable.

Wow. It should be. Isnt that an 800 point unit?

[Peasant Count]

i saw 17 tzeench chaos warriors survive a charge from a stegadon, 30 saurus/spears and a 7 attack scarred vet.. the great rolling by the WoC player was a big part of it yes, but i dont know anything that i could field that would take that many attacks and still survive

With the 3+ward and stubborn from the eye of the gods chart; nastiest unit in the game IMO.

On the topic - I like my 48 Great Swords Horde with an Archlector and BSB, very formidable.

Wow. It should be. Isnt that an 800 point unit?

Pretty Close, it also has a 19 detach of swords.  We play 2500pts.  (Everyone is hording up and having slugfest combats, win or lose the games are more fun than Blood Thirsters or Dragons rolling your army.)  I also run a L4, 40 block of swords w/20 halb detach, 50 block of halberdiers.  2 Cannons, 2 Mortars and a Stank.  (Just glued the Stank together - haven't used it in 8th.) 

I love infantry, always have.  I usually weaken my lists by loading up on them but I love the look of infantry blocks.  8th allows for me to have the army look that I like and it still be competitive.   

[Shadowlord]

Empire Hordes? Pfft...

This is a horde:

[Helgrim]

 

Reload! Reload!

Just to point out, a unit in horde formation will take much less damage from artillery templates than a unit of the same size in battle bus formation. I do struggle to take out horded grave guard with either regen or the 4+ward against shooting, due in oart to the templates hitting little, or nothing. I have a plan now! steam tank to the face!

[Dirk Hardpeck]

Everyone I play with takes a Horde formation, so in order to last long enough in combat, I'm forced to take Hordes of State Troops and Great Swords, whether I want to or not. I've lost far too many a game because my guys ran, and thus were chased down, because a Horde of "X" chewed through 2+ ranks of men men and snake eyes or slightly better was needed to avoid running.

I've had great success with a Horde of 48 GS, BSB, & an AL. BSB is, of course, built to the hilt for Armor and is given the 4+ Ward while the AL's gear changes time from time, but VHS is always on there. This unit ate through about 500 points of WoC Heros and a unit of Chosen one game. It single-handedly won it for me by holding up his Elites for 4 turns, allowing me to roll his flanks.

I've also toyed with a 10x12 unit of Swordsmen. The idea being you tie this in with a Horde of GS and have two stubborn units. The Swordsmen Horde is more for holding up more powerful units so the GS Horde can roll into the flank. Yes it's big, I know. It's a fun idea and really only for kicks, but the look on the opponents face is priceless as I've played it once, and it helped me win my game by doing just what it was supposed to do.

[Odominus]

48 GS? Wow! Very cool

Thats a lot of meatballs..

[Peasant Count]

I am used to playing competitive GT players and when they started throwing hordes down on the table, I knew there was something to them.  I really wanted to avoid a Stank but with all of the hordes running around it is one tool that the Empire has.  I have been buzz-sawed by the 20 Chosen of Tzeentch, but they might not be as good as the 40 Grave Guard unit that hits on 2+ and combo that with Vamp magic, just brutal.  With the reform rules, getting away from these types of units seems impossible.  I know people complain about Dwellers but it is an answer for these mega units.  Great Swords are the only choppy unit the Empire has to hang with the other hordes so I despite being a point sink, they are the best way to go for me.