Empire list for ETC-like environment

[ukko]

Hello all.

I've been playing a cav-heavy empire army for about 6 months now and it's been a lot of fun (there's actually a colletion of brief reports in my blog if anyone's interested). However, I want to make something that can work in an ETC-like context i.e. a solid shield army within the restrictions. Unfortunately, the cav-heavy army is very match-up dependant in my experience and offers a lot of easy VPs, so I've been thinking something like:

Arch Lector, altar, speculum, charmed shield, heavy armour, biting blade
- when used defensively to protect the light stuff, I don't find he needs much gear. Charmed shield is ace as it lets him wander out in the open for one turn though and biting blade introduces some much needed magic attacks.
lv4 with holy relic (shadow or light)
- although I've been running life on my lv4 in the cav list, I don't think it's necessary in this one, due to the much altered role of the stank. As a result I'm drawn towards either shadow (great utility lore and withering and mortars seem horrific) or light (magic missiles may help greatly against light shooting units which can really hurt a lightly armoured army like this, and area-of-effect mindwarp opens up the rush option).
BSB with flaming banner and full plate
- can join the xbows to de-regen things before the artilelry fires, or can join greatswords and try and position himself out of combat
Engineer
- haven't wrote an empire list without one, awesome value for 65 points
30 flaggelants with prophet
- drop like flies but are best option for core imo, due to their reliability and raw killing power in the first round of combat
20 xbows with banner, musician 
- had been running two small units but this unit provides a character bunker which can be kept safe between the two big blocks
5 knights with gleaming pennant and musician
- love this unit for the adaptability and combat reach it brings. The glemaing pennant also means they can be left isolated and sent off to clear shades, skinks, etc without so much fear of panic checks
38 greatswords with full command and 5 halberdier detachment
- haven't tried greatswords yet but they seem like a solid wall to hold the centre of the army. Was tempted by a priest to give them hatred but the points seem better spent making the unit larger (the unit can now horde to get extra attacks anyway)
2 mortars
2 cannons
- pretty standard, some people reckon only one cannon is necessary but 2 is important against other gunlines.
Stank
- has a bit more of a free role in this army than previous builds, where it had to cause bottlenecks and tie up whatever I couldn't run down with the cav. Looking forward to seeing it in a killier role.

Greatly appreciate any feedback, especially from anyone who has experience in this environment.

[RockabillGR]

hey.
i have a small expirience from ETC *(just starting)i trust you're ok with the restrictions.
with that in mind, i would swap the detachment of 5 halberbs for 5 free companies. s3 ok but 10 attacks.

i would also consider adding a horde of halberbs and soem pistoliers.
hope i helped :icon_biggrin:

[Joelatron]

Hey

List has a good start.

One thing I would like to ask you: is 2 cannons, 2 mortars, Stank the most efficient use of your 5 warmachines?
Do you need 2 cannons? ie-what is the likelihood of coming across "need 2 cannon" armies?

Would 2 mortars, rocket battery and stank work better? Cannons count as template weapons, so you still fit the restriction, but this way you have a way to hammer a hell cannon (your cannon), hurt the maurders (2 mortars), blow some holes is the warriors (rocket battery) and still hold up something else (stank).
I just feel a lack of rocket battery and the surplus of 2nd cannon.

[ukko]

Cheers for the feedback. Yeah, I've considered that switch as well, not least because of the raw destructive power of the rockets. All the same, there are three main reasons why I'm reluctant:

1. The single rank template defence. Most people (myself very much included) faced with two mortars and a rocket will deploy in long single ranks to avoid giving up kills. Confident of not giving up VPs, they will then take down the odd warmachine and bit of chaff to get ahead. On the other hand...
2. Cannons net VPs. If a rocket maims a unit, it usually hides to preserve points. This is great when you're pushing forward and trying to run over units but doesn't actually get you into the black if you're playing with a defensive army. If a cannon hits a single model and kills it, it's VPs in the bank. Over the course of a game two cannons are often metronomical in racking up kills. They also tip the balance against other armies with artillery - 2 cannons will down a warmachine a turn, giving you a serious leg-up in the latter stages of the game.
3. The 0-1 restriction on engineers. My experience with rockets is that you almost need a dedicated engineer to get real value from them. With 2 cannons and 2 mortars, you can usually fire the cannons without needing the engineer. This then allows you the luxury of rerolling scatters on the last mortar to fire - something which has made a big difference many times for me.

All of that said, nothing equalises a bad match-up like a direct hit from a S5 large template... I had hoped for a bit of help from the withering/mortar combo on that front but any plan that involves magic is ropey. Hmm, I'll have a think about it and maybe play a few games before making up my mind.

Cheers again