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Author Topic: New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria  (Read 3705 times)

Offline Atchman

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Do you have trouble winning consistently against the Lizardmen?  Well here is a very indepth article analyzing their lists and specific tactics and styles of play that can beat them.  So point your browsers at the War Room or just read the article here:

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/war_lizardrev1.htm
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline bigrin42

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2004, 03:34:48 PM »
As a rabid anti-lizard Empire player, I give much praise to the Atchmen!  Great article!  It is easy to see that a lot of effort went into it.

Just goes to show the kind of "Know thy enemy" analysis that can come from having regular opponents that play a certain army...plus lurking (spying) on the message boards of the enemy.   :biggriin:


Geat job!   :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:
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Offline Kyle

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2004, 08:36:57 PM »
A very long and interesting article that took some time to write up I'm sure.  It was a great read, as I read through I copied a few things down that I found ether interesting, didn't know or just made me laugh. :-D  :wink:   Here they are:

Quote
Sword of the Hornet (strike first): Many Lizardmen players do not use this item though I do not understand why. I would think it would be excellent on a hero leading a unit of Saurus warriors, much like the Blade of Sigismund in an Empire army.


I know, I'm the only one who uses it...  My Scar-Veteran has beaten a unit of 30 Giant Rats on his own with this blade and a few other nice items.  The amount of attacks I would loose half of the time if I didn't use it is astounding.  After beating the Rats it went on to do serious damage to an Empire Spearmen unit and was only just run down, he failed his break test by one, other wise I would have beat the unit and won the game.  The game was a 3 way between Empire, Skaven and my Lizardmen.

Quote
Weaknesses: They are crap at everything. Even the lowliest Empire unit is far superior to the common Skink in close combat.

 
:lol:  :lol: So true.  This part made me laugh... :lol:  :lol:

Quote
Even a modest sized infantry unit can hold against Kroxigors and chip away at them until they break.


I agree, but oddly enough my unit has beat units of 25 big Dark Elf Spearmen for three games now, they are on a roll.

Quote
A Stegadon, moving at less than full speed, just to shoot the bow, is a wasted Stegadon.


Yep I agree, never fire the bow unless you can only move 6" or less.  The Stegadon is much better used in combat.

Quote
The very silly hit location table effectively gives the Stegadon a 5+ Ward Save. Though also one of its weaknesses, being a large model means it can declare charges “over” other troops that are charging.


What hit location table?  Where did you learn about this?  And where is the Lizardmen FAQ you talk about at some points in the article?  I can't seem to find them.  There not on the UK Lizardmen section on the Games Workshop web site...

Quote
Special thanks to Kaz and Karl Schimmelfennig, and Kyle Workman


Glad I could help, thanks for the help on my article, it was nice to see it mentioned in yours. :P  :wink:

All in all a very good article Atchman, well done. :-D  :wink: :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:
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Offline Malvolio

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Re: New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lus
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2004, 03:46:51 PM »
Excellent article, Atchman.  Thanks!

Offline Clarkarias

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2004, 01:28:54 PM »
A great work as always.

Even gave me some ideas of what to do with my Lizardmen army  :wink:
Actually, forget Karl-Franz. I want rules for Thyrus Gorman on a dragon. - Rufus Sparkfire

Offline Atchman

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2004, 02:57:34 PM »
Quote from: Clarkarias
A great work as always.

Even gave me some ideas of what to do with my Lizardmen army  :wink:


HEY!  NO FAIR USING THE TACTICA AGAINST US!!!  Did you see that I mentioned your name and in fact gave you an entire paragraph?  

You know when I wrote the article I soon realized that it will help both Lizardmen players AND Empire players.  The reason being is it is a compilation of all of the good Lizardmen tactics as well.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline Clarkarias

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2004, 03:32:49 PM »
I'm really disappointed that I haven't found time to finish read it yet, considering you e-mailed it to me over a week ago to ask for edits and such....and I found some but still haven't finished reading it   :oops:  

Sorry

Although I do like the Bane Head/Rule of Burning Iron combo  :-D
Actually, forget Karl-Franz. I want rules for Thyrus Gorman on a dragon. - Rufus Sparkfire

Offline Atchman

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2004, 03:47:41 PM »
STOP STOP STOP...I thought all of you guys knew about that.  Don't pass it along to them!!!!! :evil:

Crap, now I've gone and done it!
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline Count Alexander

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2004, 07:21:52 PM »
As someone who has never played against the lizards but is fascinated by their army, I really enjoyed the article.  Now if I can only find a lizard to stomp  :twisted:
"Come, it is time to prove yourself a worthy spearman, a man of war!"  The Illiad

Offline Sigmarvin

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Very nice
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2004, 02:48:02 AM »
Nice job with a great article.  I found myself thinking about the matchups you mentioned, such as how I would so love to catch a block of Halberdiers with Sallies, but would hate to see Knights across from them, etc.

I can say from experience that if the Empire general plays the way Atch advises, the Lizard opponent will be in for a tough game.  It's never easy to get things how you plan in a battle, but this is a good plan.

I enjoyed the article quite a bit, as no doubt everyone else did.

The mention was just plain bonus!  :-D

Good work here, Atch!

PS BigGrin, you are busted  :twisted:

Offline Atchman

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2004, 03:03:45 AM »
Thanks for the nice emails and suggestions from many of you.  Some of them I've tried to fix already, like the SMP spellcasting thing (I actually fixed it a couple days ago, maybe I forgot to save it).  I mention it later in the article.  

For those of you that think Steamtanks have lots of rules, and poorly written rules, write an article about Slann.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline InfernalDesire

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2004, 08:13:53 PM »
Great article, as a Lizardman general myself, it certainly covered all the bases and even suggested a few tactics for me.

From the reverse perspective, I find Empire a tough match-up for my Lizards. The things that really hurt are:

1. A double rank unit of Inner Circle Knights. Apart from a tooled up OldBlood, there's nothing much that we can hurt them with.

2. 3 warmachines, deployed across the board. As long as you stay away from good scouting locations, I never seem to have enough war-mchine hunters.

3. Really big spearmen units (with the Griffon standard of course). About the only thing (other than Ironbreakers or Khorne Chaos Warriors with 2xHW) that I'm worried about.

4. Huntsmen march-blocking my Saurus warriors.

What I like to see in my opponent's empire army:

1. Pistoliers on a flank. Wiped out by Salamanders or Swarms.

2. Wizards, especially using lores other than heavens. I'll outgun you even with Skink priests.

3. Handgunner lines. Normally wiped out by blowpipes or Salamanders.

My record against Empire is 4-3-1.

Offline Atchman

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2004, 09:41:02 PM »
HEY!  I'm not supposed to be helping the Lizardmen!

Anyway, thank you for the kind words.

 Handgunner lines properly protected are the bane of Lizardmen.  I agree if they aren't protected correctly they are Skink bait.  I try and use a unit of knights deployed near them to protect them or send out a suicide detachment to occupy the Skinks.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline RedSkink

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Very nice article
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2004, 08:22:24 PM »
Atchman,

You've given a very good summary of the Lizardman list, as others have noted.  I just wanted to point out a few omissions from the magic item summary.

1.  The first one isn't a major omission, as it's not a very commonly-taken item, but I've been itching to find a way to sneak one of these into my list--the Shield of the Mirrored Pool.  Essentially, it acts as a normal shield, but if the character carrying it (or his unit) is targeted by a magic missile spell, there's a 50/50 chance that the spell will rebound and hit the caster.  Against Empire, I suspect the utility would be limited, but against Skaven it could be really handy as a deterrent to all those Warp Lightning spells the little rats love to toss around.

2.  Another rarely-taken item is the Blade of Realities.  This caused a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth when the book came out, because it ignores Ward saves.  The reason it's never taken, however, is that it doesn't negate armor saves.  Maybe useful against Demons, but not against most armies.

3.  One of my favorites is the Venom of the Firefly Frog, which makes attacks from a character's mundane weapons count as both magical _and_ poisoned.  The poison ability isn't that helpful (I tend to forget about it, and in any event a great-weapon wielding Saurus character is usually wounding on 2s), but the magical attack ability could come in handy against Ethereal critters or High Elf Mages with Walk Between Worlds.  

A lot of Lizardman players (myself included) are actually of the opinion that our magic item list is one of the more limited ones in the game--not because there aren't some really, really nice items, but because they're all clustered in the Enchanted Items category.  That, coupled with the relatively low number of magic items in the list (at least compared to other races) means that you tend to wind up seeing the same combinations of items in almost every Lizardman list.  Again, the items that get taken are great, but there's not a lot of variety.

One comment on the Skink Priest--they do have the ability to Scout, but I can't ever imagine a situation in which you'd actually encounter this.  Skink Priests are restricted to the Lore of Heavens, and most Heavens spells, even with the revisions, have good range and don't require line of sight.  If I allowed my Priest to scout, I'd just be placing him closer to a lot of things that can hurt him--with Skink Toughness and lousy leadership, that's just begging for trouble.  They're fast enough that you can get them where they need to be without having them Scout, and you can protect them while you're doing so.

Again, very nice article--it's very interesting to read the reactions of non-Lizard players to the book and army list.

Offline Atchman

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New Article in the War Room: Against the Lizards of Lustria
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2004, 09:19:56 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments.  I left out some items on purpose.  My reasoning is that they were rarely seen items that are of limited utility against the Empire.  As this wasn't an all comers tactica, I tried to keep it Empire specific.  I cannot imagine the magnitude of trying a "generic" beating the Lizards article!

Again, thanks for the comments!
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"