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Author Topic: Gamer thread  (Read 77514 times)

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8725 on: April 20, 2015, 12:53:39 PM »
I haven't played DS2 yet so it will all be new to me!

As far as the cthuhlu girl, yeah, she was messed up while sleeping.  I didn't bother her!  Such an amazing game though.  I love it.The whole old one thing is just so neat.

I have four umbilicals.  Need to eat the three and kill Gehrman, but he was pretty tough the first time I fought him.  Like fighting a super hyper hunter!

The question of the "good" ending is interesting.  The only real good one I can see is waking up.  The one where you kill Gehrman without eating the cords seems like the evil one, like you are so invested in the hunt you cannot escape.  The one where you become and Great One is the oddest of them.  Is it good or bad?  Are the Great Old Ones just naturally a bad thing?  If you are Lovecraftian you know they are not inherently evil, they just see most humans as inconsequential and ant like, being totally on a different plan than they.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8726 on: April 20, 2015, 01:15:17 PM »
They are evil in that they are pointlessly malicious. It's just that for Lovecraft the idea of evil doesn't have much meaning. But they are definitely pointlessly destructive and malicious.

This isn't Lovecraft though, just has echoes of it.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8727 on: April 20, 2015, 01:24:21 PM »
I see it very much as a Japanese take on Lovecraft.  And by that, it means insane insanity.

Even in Lovecraft, some Old Ones weren't necessarily evil.  Some were even helpful to humanity is a fashion.  But most didn't care.  They were on a level that saw no consequence in their actions and they couldn't fathom why what they were doing was anything other than what it had to be.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8728 on: April 20, 2015, 01:40:41 PM »
There's definitely some Dracula in there too I think. It's a bunch of influences. But yeah, insanity.

I think with Lovecraft the term evil doesn't have much meaning because there is no absolute good or evil. The Old Ones are evil because they hurt us, nothing more. They know it hurts us but they just don't care, because we don't mean anything. To them it's not evil at all, but it doesn't make them any less evil or horrific to us. It's made harder for someone like me because I've only read a little bit of Lovecraft and a huge portion of what is billed as "lovecraft" turns out to be written by others. But it seems like terms such as evil meant basically nothing to him.

The plague caused by Erebrias and her ilk threatens our survival, so killing her is justified. Furthermore, they don't exist on a plane outside our comprehension - unlike Cthulu, Erebrias and others are very killable by just a single human, so not really all that special!

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8729 on: April 20, 2015, 01:51:49 PM »
True to a degree, but really, they are only killable within a Dream.  The Host touches on the notion that he is a Dreamer, looking for knowledge in an alternate world and when killed screams that he will forget everything.  This is EXACTLY what Lovecraft created with his Dreamlands.  In the Dreamlands, many of the Old Ones or Outer Gods were more mortal or at least vaguely approachable.  And in theory, a powerful enough Dreamer might, with the right tools, knowledge, and skills, induce some benefit from them.  Certainly not kill them like in Bloodborne, but do them harm.

Really, this game is amazing.  I agree though about your concept of Lovecraftian evil.  The evil comes from a lack of concern for the welfare of anything.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8730 on: April 20, 2015, 01:55:35 PM »
Interesting. But poor Micolash, he is already dead. You enter the nightmare by approaching his corpse. He isn't going to wake up and forget everything... he isn't going to wake up at all.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8731 on: April 20, 2015, 01:58:09 PM »
I was wondering that.  Is he though?  Who knows if his corpse on the throne was really his corpse or just another aspect of the dream that served as a gateway into the nightmare?

Lovecraft's idea was that you could live lifetimes in the Dreamlands but when you awaken, you won't remember and only the most powerful Dreamers could "pick back up" where they left off when their Dream ended.  Similarly, only the best could retain what they learned.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8732 on: April 20, 2015, 02:27:48 PM »
Hmm. I guess we will never know then. We don't even know if the Yharnam we play in is the real Yharnam or just a dream. The Hunter's Dream is a dream, obviously based on the Abandoned Workshop. The Nightmare of Mensis is self explanatory. But when you die and wake up in the first ending, is that the same Yharnam you just spent the night in? We must be in the last days of Yharnam if so, since the Healing Church is destroyed by the Hunter and the Great Ones annihilated, except for the Moon Prescence and the child Mergo.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8733 on: April 20, 2015, 02:49:30 PM »
I was thinking that. I woke up in my executioner robe wearing my bell head, so I was thinking that too.  I assumed the entire thing was somewhat a dream and the Hunter's Dream was just another level of that.  But it could very well be that the only two dreams are the Hunter's Dream and the Nightmare area.  I assumed all of it had to be a dream because your awakening after each "death" was only possible because of the dream state.

This shit is deep!
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8734 on: April 20, 2015, 02:56:19 PM »
Crazy! But I love it. Imagine if Inception had been crossed with Lovecraft and Dracula.

Even Patches is back, leering through a door. Then you find out he's a spider! This game is on another level compared to the past ones.

Did you realise the lullaby that plays during the fight with Mergo's Wetnurse is the same as comes out of the Tiny Music Box? And that after you kill the Wetnurse, the dead body of Viola, the wife of Father Gascoigne disappears?

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8735 on: April 20, 2015, 03:04:50 PM »
Wait... Viola, wasn't she dead at the Tomb where you fight the Father?

I noticed the tiny music box tune.  What I failed to do was meet patches before dropping into his room and killing him!  I never talked to him!  Only afterwards did I realize I had just missed out on an NPC.  I also didn't remember him from the other Dark Souls games (though I have only played one!).

Who was the lady in white outside the wet nurse place?  Did you kill her or anything?  I didn't.  I assumed she was the mother of the child.  The ghost of the mother anyway.

How messed up was the whore and her little spawn? CRAZY.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8736 on: April 20, 2015, 03:35:37 PM »
Yeah, she was dead in the Tomb. But after the fight with the Wetnurse (according to the net, haven't confirmed myself yet) her body is gone... and her music box shares the theme with the Wetnurse...

I haven't done the Wetnurse yet, but I think the lady in white is Yharnam, Pthermu Queen. I think Yharnam might be the mother of Mergo, and might be the reason the land and town named after her is in such a mess.

Patches was in both Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls. But he was a human those times. In Dark Souls he kicks you down a hole in Tomb of the Giants.

The whore and her spawn were so nasty. I felt really bad for her, it wasn't her fault at all, unlike the imposter Iosefka. Though in my game I killed Iosefka before Rom, so got her rune instead of a Cord. Only need three, so it's ok. I haven't seen the third ending, the Cord one, since that's the one I'm aiming for. I know roughly what happens but still don't want to watch it and spoil it.

Offline Brad

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8737 on: April 21, 2015, 04:43:20 AM »
Turns out there was plenty more of Unseen Yarglebargle that I hadn't actually, er, seen.  Including another boss.

Well, one less boss now  :-D   One Reborn, pff, more like One Rekilled, amirite?

Very reminiscent of Tower Knight, actually, although much yuckier.

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8738 on: April 21, 2015, 07:40:43 AM »
Spoilers ahead, ye be warned....


Quote
The question of the "good" ending is interesting.  The only real good one I can see is waking up.  The one where you kill Gehrman without eating the cords seems like the evil one, like you are so invested in the hunt you cannot escape.  The one where you become and Great One is the oddest of them.  Is it good or bad?  Are the Great Old Ones just naturally a bad thing?  If you are Lovecraftian you know they are not inherently evil, they just see most humans as inconsequential and ant like, being totally on a different plan than they.

I personally find the easy ending as bad as the second ending. From how I see it, that ending implies your hunter has been cut out of the dreams completely.  Who can say that the world he "awakens" in is the true one? I see it as the hunter's soul being put in a reality crafted by the great ones, no longer having control of his own fate(something akin to the matrix). In essence it's a game of monopoly, there are players and pieces. The true ending makes you a player, the second one makes you a piece. The easy ending makes you nothing more than a tile on the board.

I see it very much as a Japanese take on Lovecraft.  And by that, it means insane insanity.

Even in Lovecraft, some Old Ones weren't necessarily evil.  Some were even helpful to humanity is a fashion.  But most didn't care.  They were on a level that saw no consequence in their actions and they couldn't fathom why what they were doing was anything other than what it had to be.

Not just insanity (though that plays a large part), it also focuses on seeing the truth beyond the abilities of human eyes and mankind being a large part in it's own downfall. Eyes are a large part of the lore (and emphasized by several enemies, the witches actually wear cloaks composed of eyeballs) as a gift from the great ones (gift being similar to chaos's  "gifts") is the giving of eyes, Rom was one who recieved such a gift.

There are several parts revealing mankind's part in the insanity. The main one is the church of healing being actually created to worship the great ones and enact their plans. A lesser example is the city's fall itself, it is implied that the "miracle cure" actual caused the city to be swarmed by the sick who wanted the cure, it remains to be seen if the cure was a tactic by the church to get more subjects for the great ones.

(Heavy spoilers, garnered from tropes wiki)
It all cumulates with Provost Wilhelm however, he caused it all to happen. It's the reason I compared this to a game of monopoly, he made a bargain with the great ones and they kept their end of the bargain. They were sold Byrgenwerth, Hemwick and Yharnam in exchange for Provost and his colleges to gain knowledge not meant for mortal minds. Upon receiving the gift of eyes he and his fellow scholars minds all became stillborn, Willem was the only one to live. The great ones are now using the cities as a kindergarten to raise a new great one.

In that light one could see them as not being completely mad and evil so much as eldritch beings making the most of a bargain, it's not their fault the scholars expired from the gift and their child needs playthings.


Patches was in both Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls. But he was a human those times. In Dark Souls he kicks you down a hole in Tomb of the Giants.

The whore and her spawn were so nasty. I felt really bad for her, it wasn't her fault at all, unlike the imposter Iosefka. Though in my game I killed Iosefka before Rom, so got her rune instead of a Cord. Only need three, so it's ok. I haven't seen the third ending, the Cord one, since that's the one I'm aiming for. I know roughly what happens but still don't want to watch it and spoil it.

Par the course for Patches really.

The whore spawning a horror and the red moon that ushers in a setting of madness are shout outs to Berserk(so is Patches, I believe). All the soul series have heavy influences from it.

Turns out there was plenty more of Unseen Yarglebargle that I hadn't actually, er, seen.  Including another boss.

Well, one less boss now  :-D   One Reborn, pff, more like One Rekilled, amirite?

Very reminiscent of Tower Knight, actually, although much yuckier.

Well done, Brad, nice to hear you bested that horror. Out of curiosity, what build do you use and what does your character look like? I'm thinking of doing something "special". :icon_wink:


Also, what do you lads think of dark souls 2: First sin, worth getting or skip it?



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Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8739 on: April 21, 2015, 01:42:02 PM »
I'm buying it today!!

I'll post a picture of my guy.  He has the bell helmet, executioner robe, and now the tomb pants and gloves.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8740 on: April 21, 2015, 02:25:47 PM »
I played the first two DLC of DS2, but not the third.

If you never played DS2 I'd get it. It's a good game, more Souls and with a better combat system than DK1 in my opinion. The builds are more diverse, the magic is significantly better thought out and organised. The spells are definitely viable, and going physical damage is also viable. However the enemies are not as "fair". They can wheel around mid swing very easily, so you often can't dodge them - they just track mid swing and you get hit. The bosses are just not as good as DeS or DS1, or Bloodborne.

From an artwork, level design and setting/lore point of view, DS2 is the weakest entry. From a PVP point of view, I think it's stronger than DS1 by a huge margin. I didn't do much pvp in DeS so can't comment on that, and I've only had one (laggy) fight in Bloodborne but the guy was very scrubby and easy to kill.

The 3 DLC for DS2 are quite good. Not Artorias of the Abyss good, that was gold standard DLC for me, but still very good. But even with them it's the weakest entry in the series for me. Honestly, DeS is still the best.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8741 on: April 21, 2015, 04:59:05 PM »
See, I have no idea what parts were DLC and what weren't on DS.  I bought the collector edition and there was no easy way to determine what was original!

I am stoked about DS2.  I am waiting a little bit since I am finishing Bloodborne and I then I need to do a little Elder Scrolls Online with my buddies.
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8742 on: April 21, 2015, 05:12:35 PM »
In Dark Souls the DLC was the pendant that allowed you to get grabbed by the giant hand and pulled back in time to Oolacile, fighting that lightning spitting guardian, the Knight Artorias, the black dragon and Manus, father of the Abyss. Everything else was in the original game.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8743 on: April 21, 2015, 05:29:12 PM »
I don't remember any of that...

I don't think that was in the collectors edition!
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Offline Sig

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8744 on: April 21, 2015, 05:50:22 PM »
Then you might want to pick it up! The DLC area and added content was amazing.

It's set long ago, and you meet the knights who have left their rings behind for the main story. Gough, who had the Hawk Ring, helps with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xfjON-4G9g

That keeps Khalameet from flying during your fight with him. He's pretty rough, but if he can fly...

You can also find the young Sif, and have him aid you against Manus. If you find Sif in the DLC before fighting him in the main game, he recognizes you during the boss fight at the tomb and howls with sorrow before picking up the sword to fight.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 05:58:32 PM by Sig »

Offline Brad

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8745 on: April 21, 2015, 08:21:15 PM »
Turns out there was plenty more of Unseen Yarglebargle that I hadn't actually, er, seen.  Including another boss.

Well, one less boss now  :-D   One Reborn, pff, more like One Rekilled, amirite?

Very reminiscent of Tower Knight, actually, although much yuckier.

Well done, Brad, nice to hear you bested that horror. Out of curiosity, what build do you use and what does your character look like? I'm thinking of doing something "special". :icon_wink:

Blades of Mercy, and Knight coat and Hunter hat, makes me look like a dashing highwayman  :engel:

I've never used any of the sharing stuff on PS4.  Can I get a screenshot with it?

[/quote]
Also, what do you lads think of dark souls 2: First sin, worth getting or skip it?
[/quote]

Probably if you never played the original, but on PC at least from what I've seen not enough visual improvement over the free patch that gave most of the new content anyways.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8746 on: April 21, 2015, 09:42:17 PM »
http://youtu.be/45GOZ60JTZw

Here is my dude, Mr. Philly.

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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8747 on: April 21, 2015, 09:45:51 PM »
While I don't understand why the hat*, it looks quite cool.




*Not why anything. Just why.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8748 on: April 21, 2015, 10:32:02 PM »
It's extremely Japanese Gnu!

Most of the hats are more normal.
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: Gamer thread
« Reply #8749 on: April 21, 2015, 10:34:09 PM »
It's extremely Japanese Gnu!

I have to write a story around that sentence. :icon_biggrin: