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Author Topic: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"  (Read 2879 times)

Offline Maza

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"Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« on: November 21, 2011, 07:17:23 PM »
Wouldn't it bee cool if the Empire had a special rule called "Faith, steel and gunpowder"? I don't know what it's effects would be though, I just like the name :-)

Maybe some synergy when you have warmachines, priests and close-combat infantry on the table at the same time? +1 CR to state troops representing their confidence in the might of their nation? +1 Ld (they always use someone else's Ld anyway)? +1" when charging?

What do you think?

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 12:37:25 PM »
I think there are plenty more than enough oddly named special rules.
Btw, just in case there's a connection, Guns, Germs & Steel is pseudo-science crap.

Offline Maza

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2011, 06:58:13 PM »
No, the whole point is that it is a reference to the fluff. One of the emperors said "Three things make the Empire great: faith, steel and gunpowder". I was thinking of it as a condensed description of the spirit of the Empire, and thought it would be a good name for a special rule. Special rules, I think, are there to capture the character of the different armies in the gameplay. Detachments are fun, but I want more soul, man!  :mrgreen:

Offline Thomas Aagaard

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 09:41:57 PM »
I would have said Faith, disciplin and gunpowder...

Thomas Aagaard
"Stirland Kampfgruppe Forwards!"
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Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2011, 01:37:12 PM »
Soul, spirit & fluff = all good.
More special rules - not so much.
Most of the time, these army specific special rules end up being part of the WH arms race, making the army with the most current rule book the most powerful.
Which suits the GW business model just fine, of course.......

'My State Troops get +1 CR because the War Priest had his pet monkey blessed by Sigmar AND my General wears the Sigil of Mo' Bettah Resolutionism AND it's his grandma's birthday!'
'Yaha! But my Flaming Tzeentchers get +2 CR because Khorne is in ascendence over the Temple of the Bloody Fart (determined by a d6 roll, naturally) AND my Bloodletting Khorners carry the Banner of IWinAutomatically AND my Bald Hotties with Lobsterclaws have their period feeding Khorne's frenzy!!'

Offline Doomduck1988

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2011, 06:42:00 PM »
I think there are plenty more than enough oddly named special rules.
Btw, just in case there's a connection, Guns, Germs & Steel is pseudo-science crap.
What makes you say that book is crap? I'm half way in to the book and I'm digging it. It makes a ton of great case and point arguments about the science behind human origins. Pm me as I'd love to hear your thoughts about the book as I'm in a town where reading is borderline Witch craft.

As for the faith, steel, and gunpowder rule I think it should be more of a theam than a rule but if it had to be a rule I'd say make it similar to brets and give the a prayer of some sort that gives +1 to hit or some sort of ld bonus.

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 12:12:25 AM »
Nothing 'borderline' about it.
Reading, Sir, IS witchcraft.
Expect the Imperial  Inquisitor at your doorstep any time........

It's crap because the author takes whatever historical facts support his pet theory, disregarding all others.
Fine when creating backgrounds for fantasy novels or games, not so good when writing abourt actual history.

Offline Maza

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2011, 10:17:35 PM »
'My State Troops get +1 CR because the War Priest had his pet monkey blessed by Sigmar AND my General wears the Sigil of Mo' Bettah Resolutionism AND it's his grandma's birthday!'
'Yaha! But my Flaming Tzeentchers get +2 CR because Khorne is in ascendence over the Temple of the Bloody Fart (determined by a d6 roll, naturally) AND my Bloodletting Khorners carry the Banner of IWinAutomatically AND my Bald Hotties with Lobsterclaws have their period feeding Khorne's frenzy!!'

OK, I see your point. If someone asked me "do you think warhammer needs more special rules?", I would probably say no. But I still liked the idea of FS&G.

As for the faith, steel, and gunpowder rule I think it should be more of a theam than a rule

What do you mean? Please elaborate!

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 12:40:14 PM »
Understood.
I totally support the idea of a theme, I guess right now, then theme of the Empire army would be 'detachments'.
As for gunpowder, to my way of thinking, there's already too much gunpowder in what is supposed to be a High Fantasy world.
And the weapons using it are too common and acxcurate.
There's a game system called Slaughterloo, made by Alternative Armies, based on a humoristic fantasy version of Napoleonics (roughly), and their musketry etc. is just about right for early 19th century conditions.
Compared to that, late Medieval/early Renaissance Warhammer cannons have laser sights and electronic homing devices......

Offline iggy666

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 07:50:12 AM »
Honestly, I think that quote is a small piece of tactical advice. It is saying that the strength of this army is the combination of elements, unlike most armies who have their obvious strengths and weaknesses.

If you really want an army wide special rule... maybe something like:

Faith, Steel, and Gunpowder:
As long as there is at least one Warrior Priest or Arch Lector, one unit of at least 10 Halberdiers, one unit of at least 10 Spearmen, and at least one war machine on the battlefield that is not fleeing the entire army gains +1 Combat Resolution and may reroll all fear, terror, and panic tests. These units/models must be on the field (and not fleeing), otherwise this rule is lost.

It may be similar to mark of slaanesh for chaos, but it would make sense that units would be less likely to flee in general if they knew they were being backed up by warriors priests, war machines, and of course, more state troops. I also felt that adding spearmen to the special rule gives more incentive to take them, sense spearmen and halberdiers are the fluffy
mainstay of any imperial army. Also, I think this would help solve the NEED for a BSB, especially in smaller games.

Offline Maza

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 08:07:04 AM »
I guess right now, then theme of the Empire army would be 'detachments'.

Yeah, detachments are fun to play with, but not enough soul  :mrgreen:

Honestly, I think that quote is a small piece of tactical advice. It is saying that the strength of this army is the combination of elements, unlike most armies who have their obvious strengths and weaknesses.

Nice interpretation, I like it. But if it should be a rule, it is a good idea that it should somehow make them less likely to flee.

Maybe I would settle with:

"Faith, Steel, and Gunpowder:
As long as there is at least one Warrior Priest or Arch Lector, one unit of state troops, and at least one war machine on the battlefield that is not fleeing, regiments of state troops may reroll panic tests. These units/models must be on the field (and not fleeing), otherwise this rule is lost."

This way, it would just be harder to break a line of state troops using the "panic"-mechanism.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:13:37 PM by Maza »

Offline TheBelgianGuy

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Re: "Faith, steel and gunpowder"
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 08:09:38 PM »
Like all High Elves having ASF, all dark elves having Eternal hatred, dwarfs having magical resistance, Skaven have that strength in numbers thing,...  I wouldn't mind every army having one specific bonus.

And then call it a race-specific trait instead of a rule, win-win for all!