Topic: Huntsmen: The Role Of Scouts

[Talben21]

I wouldn't modify my army at all for the 1+ roll. It is still only 1+ (yes it raises your odds but there is no warrant)

Not warranted? Do tell.

Really Odo that is your avatar? A politically charged picture of George Soros using the President of the United States as a puppet? You know most of the hate against Soros is due to the fact he is Jewish. Amazing this site doesn't boot your ass to the curb for that crap.

Go take the Right Wing hate speech elsewhere. We are here to talk games NOT politics so change your avatar.

(For the record the same would go for any tool head that posted things from any other political spectrum. Its just not warranted here).

Happy Holidays!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

TBH, i don't feel going first is a big bonus at all. If your using handgunners or even xbows, then your oppenents first turn is simply going to move them within half-range

Half range of handguns is 12". In the standard scenario, only M7+ units opposite your shooters are even able to move into half range. It's better with Crossbows but if you're using warmachines, the chance to take out something important is much better than another wound from the gunners.

[Odominus]

@Talben....Puh-lease

Do you even know the definition of the word hate? Might want to research that before you start dropping it in the Elector's Forum. I don't hate Obama, I just oppose his quasi-marxist policies. And I haven't thought about Soros being jewish until you just said it. I could give a crap where he comes from. I judge a man by his actions. You are projecting.

"We are here to talk games NOT politics so change your avatar."

Sorry your Highness. I will not capitulate. Such authority you project when you give me this command. Get used to non-compliance.  Btw, it was you who went off-topic.

I'm not sorry if my avatar caused you to pee pee in your skinny jeans a lil bit. Boot me to the curb? LMAO. Grow a set oh ye of the thin skin.  If you want to have a talk about George Soros, start a thread in the Back Table. We'll talk about George and his relationship to the Obama machine.


Now back to the topic before Talben's head explodes:

If you are playing a "let them come to me" tactic, then going first is huge. I cannot tell you how many times my opponent is missing their Grey Seer, Stegadon, Walter, Fateweaver, etc. by the end of the top of turn 1. Going first gives you an extra round of shooting before your troops get into hth

[towishimp]

Going first is definitely huge, and a big reason not to take scouts if you're playing a war machine heavy army.  Threat removal is job one for my Empire army, and going first lets me kill things before they have a chance to do any damage whatsoever. 

[Noght]

I wouldn't modify my army at all for the 1+ roll. It is still only 1+ (yes it raises your odds but there is no warrant)

Not warranted? Do tell.

Like a 16% differance in going first.... .  Seriously, scouts affecting your ability to WM an extra turn is huge if you plan on running a modified Gunline at all.  Besides these guys are sooooo bad.

Noght

[Athiuen]

I think the type of list running huntsmen might not worry about shooting first.

At any rate, noght is right, huntsmen are bad.  A cannon is more useful.

[Eglard]

Well my comment was a general one. It applies better to armies that actually have scouts worth taking, like DE and WE. And IMO the possibility of gaining 16% chance to get the first turn is not worth it if you really need scouts. Empire doesn't and that is why it is a moot point. I never said that someone should take huntsmen. I said that the possibility of loosing the 16% chance to go first is not a very good reason not to take scouts, if you think they would complement your army.

And the first turn is not a very good thing if your opponent is wise enough to prepare for the worst in his deployment phase. That means that your cannons won't have anything worth shooting at and that your missile troops will be out of range or out of suitable targets. Sounds like a wasted turn to me.

[Delthos]

And the first turn is not a very good thing if your opponent is wise enough to prepare for the worst in his deployment phase. That means that your cannons won't have anything worth shooting at and that your missile troops will be out of range or out of suitable targets. Sounds like a wasted turn to me.

I have to dissagree. Putting your units into positions where they can't be shot at can hurt more than it helps in Fantasy. That logic is good in 40k, where hiding behind something is viable as it's easy to move and shoot, but that generally isn't a good idea in Fantasy as it can effectively put your units in poor position. Having to moveout from behind a building can really hinder you and slow your advance down. I've had few games in 8th edition where I couldn't get a shot off on pretty much everything I wanted to, barring some really crappy terrain layouts, like at the last tournament I played in. Way too much terrain that made for some frustrating games.

[TheBelgianGuy]

Sometimes, the psychological threat warmachines give is good enough.
If the enemy gives up a part of the terrain so he won't be seen by your cannon, than your cannon already did his job.

That said, I think archers can be useful, BUT DROP THEIR POINTS!
Just a little!
Say, 6 for archers, 8 for huntsmen!
8 points for a M4, S3 bow, T3, is too much, 10 for a huntsmen with the same stats is even worse, I think!

[Syn Ace]

I don't hate Obama, I just oppose his quasi-marxist policies.

[Odominus]

Again wrong thread. Wrong forum. Jeez people.

[Syn Ace]

Well, you put up a politically-charged avatar on a game site and obviously want a reaction, so don't act surprised when you get them.

[Perambulator]

Before this thread gets any further off track: Let me state that I will be asking the other Moderators and Site Administrators to discuss whether or not we should have a policy on avatars - we don't currently have one. But I will at least bring it up for discussion. Please go back on topic for now. Thanks for your patience.

[Phloop]

This is the reason I set my forum settings to "Do not display Avatars"
Back on topic:

Don't forget, deploying scouts means you give up +1 to go first unless your opponent has scouts too then it's a roll off.

Erm, mind pointing me to the BRB page where it says that? Because I might owe lots of people in my club an appology!

Scouts, no matter how crap, can make their points back big time if they send a huge group heading the wrong direction. Speaking as a High Elf player, I've had my Shadow Warriors win games for me by sitting in the opposite corner of where I deployed with my main force. They don't kill a damn thing, but I've removed entire hordes out of the main battle by keeping them chasing a junk unit.

[Jörgen Andreasson]

This is the reason I set my forum settings to "Do not display Avatars"
Back on topic:

Don't forget, deploying scouts means you give up +1 to go first unless your opponent has scouts too then it's a roll off.

Erm, mind pointing me to the BRB page where it says that? Because I might owe lots of people in my club an appology!

Scouts, no matter how crap, can make their points back big time if they send a huge group heading the wrong direction. Speaking as a High Elf player, I've had my Shadow Warriors win games for me by sitting in the opposite corner of where I deployed with my main force. They don't kill a damn thing, but I've removed entire hordes out of the main battle by keeping them chasing a junk unit.

If you play by the rules and you put the last unit on the board your opponent get a +1 on the die. The scout rule do not make an exception to this.

Though, we play it like you do anyway. We don't count scouts for this purpose, for us it is a little counter intuitive on the purpose of using scouts in the first place.

I find scouts useful in any army that has them no matter how good they are at killing stuff. Just the power of surprise or restricting their unit with vanguard move is a big plus. The scouts can also give you the vanguard move you like without the enemy ruining the day for you with their scouts or vanguard units.

Archers in general is also super at protecting war-machines against fliers and light cavalry with their skirmish and able to move and shoot effectively, including standing in the way.

[Syn Ace]

Yeah, the whole fluff of scouts is they arrive before the rest of the army, so it doesn't make much sense to me the way it is now.

[The Peacemaker]

Who or what is 'obama'.
Je suis Canadien!

Huntsmen look awesome! too many points.
If the scout rule could be conferred to characters that join the unit then it might be usefull. Put a captain with the dragon bow in the unit, extra melee weapon, then huntsmen wouldn't be so bad. They would actually be able to inflict a wound. You could scout them and occupy a buildign really quick, with the captain in there they would be a bit more difficult to oust from the building.
Still alot of points but they could do something.

You can argue that in an empire army they are priced correctly. With all the shooty empire has they are the only unit with skirmish, and they can move and shoot. As simple archers they are usefull for the ability to turn around and shoot enemy scouts or ambushers. But you can also aruge that the hellblaster volley gun does a better job at that, and pistoliers do a better job with vanguard then the huntsmen do as scouts.

Another thing I don't like is that alot of ability likes poison or armour peircing and alot of spells do not apply to ranged weapons. So its very difficult to up their damage potential. I think flaming sword of ruin is the only spell that entirely works for any attack.
I did play some games when I first started and I used flaming sword of ruin alot, a few times on my huntsmen and it worked very well, they actually killed some things.

I played a game where there was a fungus forrest and my archers got the poisin ability from sitting in there(forgot the rule that poisin in the forrest does not apply to shooty), they did very well.

[Swan-of-War]

Obama is the President of the United States.
Derp

[Siberius]

I think it'd help if you could take them in 5s again. I'd take them sometimes.

Bs4 and longbows would make them a little more viable and a bit more fluffy. Then I would really take them...

[Darknight]

Obama is the President of the United States.

And the United States is that big country just to your south (Detroit and Alaska and bits of New England excepted)

[Prince Nuada]

I realise that there are a lot of Americans on game forums but I am Australian and I personally do not care about US domestic politics.
Foriegn policy is another matter but it certainly does not belong in this thread.
I made the mistake of going off-topic and voicing a controversial opinion on this site once before and the ensuing arguement got out of hand (I might as well have shot myself in the foot) and the thread was quite rightly locked-down.
When you are asked to get back on topic please respect the moderators, your fellow members and our guests and do so without having to have the last say.
If you are offended by an avatar (let's face it, it happens) have the discression to PM the person &/or a moderator rather than having a public rant.
I respectfully and here publically ask the moderators to institute a policy to edit/delete offensive rants in the future and politely PM offenders before things can spiral out of control.
Thank you for you patience ladies and gentlemen.
Can we please get back on topic now.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

If you are playing a "let them come to me" tactic, then going first is huge. I cannot tell you how many times my opponent is missing their Grey Seer, Stegadon, Walter, Fateweaver, etc. by the end of the top of turn 1. Going first gives you an extra round of shooting before your troops get into hth

We ARE using different warmachines with very different rules, aren't we?  Another turn of shooting often just kills a couple of models. I've *never* seen first turn shooting kill a big thing. In fact, I've never seen shooting kill a big gribbly over the course of a game in about a hundred games.

[TheBelgianGuy]

If you are playing a "let them come to me" tactic, then going first is huge. I cannot tell you how many times my opponent is missing their Grey Seer, Stegadon, Walter, Fateweaver, etc. by the end of the top of turn 1. Going first gives you an extra round of shooting before your troops get into hth

We ARE using different warmachines with very different rules, aren't we?  Another turn of shooting often just kills a couple of models. I've *never* seen first turn shooting kill a big thing. In fact, I've never seen shooting kill a big gribbly over the course of a game in about a hundred games.

You don't have cannons 

[Alleton]

I think he meant his don't perform as well as Odo's

[Syn Ace]

My army sits back mostly, so going 1st is huge for me. Last game I knocked out my friends' Ogre Skytitan cannon of doom thingy in turn one and knocked off a Mourne Fang and forced a leadership check which he blew and ran off the board.