Topic: Are Spearmen the new Halberdiers

[TheElectorCount43]

Fucking Crudface. 

If I remember correctly, I was the first to use that term so........... Bagsy! 

[The Peacemaker]

WHat would you say to me taking 80 Spears parent with 2 * 30 Halberds as detachments instead of 80 halberds as parent?

Saves me 80 pts which i can spend elsewhere

I would say if you have a 80spearman parent block then go with 2 x 40man detachments of halberds. lol, you can send them in horde formation too!

Halberds vs Spearmen  ----> tactically they are different.
This is what I do:
If I want a large parent block to hold then I'll take spearmen because I want more bodies. I'll typically sit back and let my cannons and hellblaster do the work. With a large parent block comes large detachments. When your detachment is 30men strong it can do more than just 'support'.

If I make a list where I feel I need to do some manouvering and I need my infantry to do more than hold then halberds is what I take.


From the games I've played however I'm finding that with all the buffs, spearmen tend to be better just for numbers to withstand any casualities and grinding. Empire is points heavy now so a 60man spearmen block gives you so many bodies for the cheapest points it compensates for the lack of strength.

[Ambrose]

I am tending to lean towards spearmen, simply to have more bodies and the higher save.  My thought is, like mentioned above, to use the large block to hold the enemy until I can flank them with harder hitting units.  Too bad I made all my guys halberdiers.   

[rothgar13]

You can have more bodies or a higher save, not both. A Spearman with a Shield costs the same as a Halberdier. I think Halberdiers are the superior infantry choice myself - Spearmen are the cheapest for a reason.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Cool, I'm usually facing 200-300 of the buggers.

[rothgar13]

300? Does your opponent shout "This... is... Sparta!" when he charges?

Seriously, though, that works for Skaven because of how cheap they are and the fact that they have stuff that can shoot into combat and otherwise grind you down (not to mention things like Gutter Runners to go about hitting vulnerable targets). I can't see it being much more than delaying the inevitable coughing up of points in Empire.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

No, he calls it Ratacus, no joke.

It's also not coughing up many points. Your run-of-the-mill unit will be crushed over time, and it's usually not the Empire that can bring something else to bear on this combat. It took 30 Swordsmen and 30 Greatswords two turns to defeat even one unit of 85 Slaves last game for a measly 170 points. That was enough to get 100 more and a DW into the GS front and rear and crush them.

Of course now that I know I should've used Spearmen, I foresee much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Underempire! Fear the First Regensburg Rodent Rabble Rousers! Use more alliteration!

[Rutgar of Wissenland]

Wouldn't a decent sized detachment beat those Skaven pretty easy?  They would only get one rank of attacks back and I've found that 10 attacks from the flank can help tip the CR.  Not to mention remove their rank bonus.  This is great in a grind as it usually means they are testing to break, not you.  Also, for Skaven, it means they lose their bonus to LD.  I'd rather put the points into a detachment than a huge horde.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Wouldn't a decent sized detachment beat those Skaven pretty easy?  They would only get one rank of attacks back and I've found that 10 attacks from the flank can help tip the CR.

You realize we're taken this thread completely off topic?  In short, yes, it would help - IF you can get to a flank. They might still be LD 7 re-rollable.

[Fandir Nightshade]

But to take it even further off topic we have the biggest equalizer Lore of Life!

Dweller his grey seer dead inside of a unit 50 % of the times and while doing that half his big chunky unit of slaves.

[Steven1984]

How do you think 40 spearman with two detachment units of 20 halberdiers would work ?

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Should be okay I think. I'm starting to use a unit of 50 with 2*15 Swordsmen and CoC which isn't so far removed from your idea, and so far it looks decent enough.

[PhillyT]

But to take it even further off topic we have the biggest equalizer Lore of Life!

Dweller his grey seer dead inside of a unit 50 % of the times and while doing that half his big chunky unit of slaves.

And that is why I hate8th edition!

[Folken]

Heh thats why we play ETC rules.

[Mathi Alfblut]

It so much depend on the circumstances. I just saw a my spearhorde and my Halberdier horde in action. The spears, who were somewhat unlucky since my opponent very lucky enough to have his wight king land a killing blow on my general, and I forgot about steadfast and they ran because he also managed to kill a few of them so despite flanking his black knights they ran like chickens. Their str3 did not bite enough on the heavy cavalry while his strength four did kill and also removed my save.

Had they faced skellies or zombies I guess they would have done better, but I really missed the shields. While my halberdiers died just as easily they smacked a skeleton regiment to pieces and cut down my mates grave guards below half strength before his BsB managed to drop my BSB and break them.

It will so much depend on what you meet. But I think I will give my spearmens "heavy armour" from now on. I do think that detachemnts of 20 plain spears can be good though.

[Steven1984]

I agree if I use spearmen I only use them as detachments now

[Rhasis]

I prefer to use spearmans, because thay gain more benefit from priest's reroll wounds and fit perfect with my defensive play style.

[Steven1984]

I am currently using 40 swordsmen as a parent unit with 2 detachments of 20 halberders but I do have 40 spearmen as well which I have not really used yet because I play quiet an ofensive play style but it is good to have them there still just in case I fancy a change from time to time

[Newt]

No matter what, I think ST 4 is much better then STR3.  Yeah you can get 5 or 10 more attacks with spears, but the +1 str and -1 armor save is really nice.  I think the price difference was to convince people just to buy spears, but in all reality, they arent going to perform as well.  Maybe if you do a horde of spears with 2 supporting halberds blocks it would be ok....but you cant auto flank charge with them anymore =(.  Stick with halberds, you know you want the str and -1 save!

[Clymer]

Yeah the S4 is a double bonus with that -1 AS. They just can't be beat. If you're taking 6 levels of shadow and can guarantee getting Okkam's than maybe spearmen would be ok, but I think they are just a chimera... not in the three-headed, throat tearing sense of the word chimera, but the ephemeral, will never be actualized, is only a fantasy sense of the word chimera.

But to take it even further off topic we have the biggest equalizer Lore of Life!

Dweller his grey seer dead inside of a unit 50 % of the times and while doing that half his big chunky unit of slaves.

And that is why I hate 8th edition!

Is Dwellers still an issue? Here's a fix: 4 units of 3 DGK a pair of cannons and a pair of steam tanks. I think you'll be able to negotiate the next time your buddies are thinking about going dwellers heavy 

[Eighty]

No matter what, I think ST 4 is much better then STR3.  Yeah you can get 5 or 10 more attacks with spears, but the +1 str and -1 armor save is really nice.  I think the price difference was to convince people just to buy spears, but in all reality, they arent going to perform as well.  Maybe if you do a horde of spears with 2 supporting halberds blocks it would be ok....but you cant auto flank charge with them anymore =(.  Stick with halberds, you know you want the str and -1 save!

so important!

i play very few armies with t3, wounding everything on 5+ would make combats so much tougher.

a horde of halberds w/ WP and hurricanum support is a painful unit to charge.