Topic: 8th Edition Feedback ? Who's actually fought using the new rulebook?!! Tell me!!

[mr chumley warner]

Guys I have tailored a new list, but yet to field ......

Who has played yet using DG Knights, Buff Wagons etc?!

Show us the feedback!

[middenheimer]

Probably not what you want to hear.... but...

I've played a few games without the new toys, it works fine without them, and that's the way I intend to keep it

Middenheimer

[csjarrat]

played two games with the new book:
DG's are good flankers but very very easy to overestimate. go with lances over halberds. the riders are just there to give the griff a save they suffer from all the usual stuff that knights do (steadfast etc) but can take a beating and still remain dangerous.
the wide frontage can make maneuvering difficult though so make sure you leave plenty of space for them.

priests are nice for drawing DD, i've only got one prayer off in both games but a 5++ is very handy and will draw a lot of attention, good for making way for birona's
captains are really good for HtL. dont have to be expensive but are nice touch in CC (a few GW attacks never goes amiss)

detachments are cool again, they still wont kill much but obviously benefitting from stubborn/hatred/prayers is a massive boost.


i built my army around  stubborn halberd horde and greatshorde with full detaches for both of halberds and swords respectively, a CoC captain and priest in the halberds with bsb and priest as general in gs-horde with banner of discipline.
they dint move an inch backward in either game.

the new griff is pretty tasty too. some bait and flee from pistoliers drew the bsb out of the enemy lines and then bloodroar scared big chunks of his army away. very nice all in all. cant comment on walter or chariots, wont be buying them!

[pippin_nl]

I have played with 3 wagons, one of each and a tank, halberdiers, flagellants and lots of knights and managed to massacre some O & G thanks to the war altar buffs. Star players were the flagellants who wiped out enemy trolls.

Will try out pidgeoneers and chicken knights next week.

[Mordenkai]

Played a game last night (2200 pts vs Beastmen). Use the army i posted in Parade Ground.

Tried out some of the new shiny stuff.

My impressions are belew (keep in mind its only form 1 game, so it is a bit biased)

Demi Griffs:
Quite good, even if i misused them a bit (Note to self: Don't charge Giants!). I ran a unit of 3. (I think 4 is better, as i lost 1 qiute early, and 2 doesnt pack enough OOmpf!)
I of 4, with Str 5 is good. Be careful of stuff that removes armour, since you only have T 3.
My 3 killied a giant (with luck!), and wiped out 15xGors (through grining), but got hit by MinoBus w/ GW and died messily.
I think it is easy to overestimate them (I did at least)

Helblaster w/ engineer
Surprisingly good. BS 4 really helps. It survived the whole game, and fired in 5 of the 6 turns. It kept the 2xHarpy units honest (killed 'em both, even with skirmish & long range), it also created a 24'' 'no-go'-zone for his Minos.
I think its the first time in 8th Ed., that my Warmachines have survived the whole battle!
It is much more reliable & deadly, but needs the babysitting engineer, wich makes it quite costly.

40xSpearmen bus with Warrior Priest, BSB & Hurricanum
Also quite good. Due to some bad judgement (I blame the beer!) I actually charged my 40 man Spearbus into a 30 x Gor unit with Beastman lord and BSB....!!! In the 2nd turn... (Yeah, stupid I know). But it showed how good our Inf can be when all the buffs kick in together. Combination of Hatred, Priest buff spamming and Hurricanum, I acutally outgrinded the Beastmen...! (Surprised me & him!). The only big problem is keeping the Priest alive... After the first round, my opponet wised up, and started to attack the Priest. And he isn't very survivable... And then you are back to having reguler state troopers. Hold the line & Steadfast kept me in the fight, but doesn't help against our troopers dying in droves. In the end, we wiped each other out.
(But I am looking forward to try the same in my next match, but with Greatswords... If I can afford them, pointswise).

Hurricanum seems good. Forgot about the extra PD. (Blame it on old age).
Only got the  bound spell of once, and didn't do much. But the +1 to hit is very nice. Especially with Miasma reducing opponents WS.

It was a fun & extremely bloody game, wich ended in a Minor Loss for me (he won with app. 400 VPs).

Pros with new book:
-Troops are much more dangerous with multiple buffs. We can actually outgrind ppl.
-Helblaster is scary again
-Prayer spam is funny (and frustrating for opponent)
-Very solid in Ld department, with HtL

Con:
-Very buff relliant
-More expensive / Much smaller army (my army felt literally tiny) Also had to drop the 'fun' stuff.
-Not much survivabillity. We die as easily as before, and have less warm bodies. This is a problem.
-Reliant on WP's. Who also die very easily, even to R'n'F. Smart opponents will knock out our WP/Captains, and the it ts a much bigger struggle.

But, we had a very fun & friendly game, and I am really looking forward to play again, next thursday (against Demons & Lizardmen).

This time with Greatswords!

Game on, ppl.

-Mordenkai

[Eighty]

Hurricanium is great

i use the bound spell to draw out dice. Comet spam is great (won one game with 3 comets, second game... i killed more of my army than his with comets but still won thanks to cannons! )

New Steam tank
Makes steam points more reliably
Still prone to hurt itself (misfire on steam creation/cannon shooting at least once every game) I even had it remove itself with 9 wounds remaining

Demigryphs
Strong, need to learn how to use them (they are a little wider/more dangerous than vanillaknights)

WP
Cant take him with a low save, the word has gone around my group, kill the WP - no hatred and no annoying prayers.
So im working on finding away to keep him safe and cheap  not working out just yet.

Mortar
yeah s2 blows chunks, but this machine will still eat t3 troops with a direct hit. Extra useless against t4 .

Witchhunters - I havent been able to deliver him into contact with his foe yet Anyone with good idea's here please share!

[sammay23]

I've played 3 games so far with new lists. Brets, HElves and Ogres. I've won all three.

Life is good.

I've been taking much more mobile armies, with anywhere from 5 - 9 combat-effective elements. My last list has 5 WPs in 3 units of DGs and 3 units of knights. All units had no command except musicians. It was wonderful. I darted across the board, isolated the Ogre deathstar with 1 unit of DGs and simply proceeded to kite them around. With 2 units for every one he had, I owned the battlefield - a very strange feeling for an Empire player who has been used to holding a line of 150 infantry.

WP spam is AMAZING. With a lvl 4 on the board, I've been throwing dice at big spells early in the phase, letting my opponent dispel those, and then romping around with prayers. So far, it's been very effective. By late-game everyone is letting my big spells through in order to prevent the prayers. With an army that is super-fast and flexible, I've been able to maximize either situation by fleeing charges when not buffed, or six-dicing prayers if I desperately need them for an already-committed unit.

DGs are very nice. They're fast and dangerous and I4 is wonderful. IC Knights are also great core.

I've enjoyed both wizard carts. They draw a lot of fire, and neither has survived a game, but they're durable enough to draw enough fire to make them worth their points, since other stuff isn't getting shot up.

I have a lot to learn still about thinking several turns ahead and setting up good combo charges. My opponents have been surprised to see such a mobile force on the field, and they'll adapt pretty quickly.

I've noticed that I'm killing a LOT less stuff than I used to, but feeling a greater sense of control and, yes, offensive ability.

I did play a mixed army against HElves, with 100 halberdiers in two units, and 2x 3DGs and 10x IC Knights. Again, the stars of the battle were the cav units, which kept a unit of 30 White Lions kited the whole battle. The infantry did quite nicely against spearmen. They were buffed with WS 10, I 10 and the Hurricanium, which meant they hit on 2s.

All in all, I've adapted my play style pretty dramatically, and I'm having a ball. I get my first Stank ever in the mail today. Wheee.

Oh, and hellblasters are fantastic.

[tcklein]

I played my first game against skaven last night with the new book (2500 points).

I ran 40 Halberds with 2x 20man detachments, 9 IC Knights, 3 DGs, cannon, helblaster, stank, hurricanium.  Character wise, I ran with 2 warrior priests (1 on foot 1 mounted), TGM w/ Runefang and OTS, BSB, a level 4 of heavens, and a witchhunter (for kicks and giggles).  Sadly we only got to play 2 complete turns before we ran out of time.  That combined with an apparent miss-reading of the warp lightning cannon (it was the first time seeing it on the field for each of us) meant it wasn't a very good test, but the steamtank is pretty amazing and running that made up for only running 1 cannon.  The Demigryphs also took a charge from 20 stormvermin and ripped them to shreds (unfortunately I failed to restrain them so I couldn't reform to kill his seer).  The TGM was also pretty awesome for his points.  The hurricanium was pretty nice though it's bound spell is kinda terrible (especially the fact that the scatter distance determines the effect and the best effects are further scatters... wtf)

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Hmm, interesting. I should play more games at the club it seems.

20 Stormvermin without character support aren't really a good test. What else did your opponent run, tcklein?

Here's one of the lists I face (2,500):
GS on Bell
               
BSB, L1, Pestilence L2, Warlock w/ pistol
               
100 Slaves, Spears, muso
2*85 Slaves, muso
31 Clanrats
2 Rat darts
5 PCB
5 Gutter Runners
HPA w/ spikes
DW
Cannon

Not sure your battalion, knights and DGK's could stand up to that.

[tcklein]

I'll see what I can remember (I don't know what upgrades he brought).  I know it wasn't an optimal list for skaven (though us thinking the WLC bounced the entire template down the line still let it destroy my main battle line)

Gray Seer
Engineer
Queek
BSB

2 units of 20 stormvermin
1 unit of 30 stormvermin
3 Poison-wind mortars

Doomwheel
Hellpit
2x WLC


I'm kinda unsure how to field my empire anymore.  The increase in trooper cost really does hurt our lines.  On one hand, a big block with decent sized detachments provides the best use of our buffing, but significantly lowers mobility.  Breaking the Parent and detachments into individual units provides the mobility but then you're spending more points in support?  Arrrgh!  So confusing...

[Spiney]

Had my first game against a fairly middle of the road HE list
Used my wizard lord on foot because my hurricanum is as yet not fully painted (and as such unbuilt)

Cannons are as good as ever they were, dropped the moon dragon prince on T2 with a double hit from both my cannons, the steam tank ate a unit of Spearmen pretty much by itself, the heavens spell that makes units -1 to hit and -1Ld won me the game when the archer bunker containing both the HE wizards ran off the table from panic after the dragon lord died next to them.

Spearmen with a halberdier detachment in the flank (hatred all round from a priest) made a mess of the second Spearmen unit and my cannons teamed up with my helblasteer to eradicate the swordsmasters before they got into combat. The only slight sticking point was the dragon princes, but my IC knights got the jump on them thanks to the steel standard and kept them busy long enough for the greatswords to flank and destroy them. All in all I had some good luck and the right tools to undo my opponent, a massacre.

[tcklein]

I'm planning on running several games against my HE to get a feel for the new empire.  It's not going to be an ideal test, but perhaps it will help me see what performs and what does not.  And I may or may not have some of the other FLGSers stop by for some matches.

[Spiney]

I'm planning on running several games against my HE to get a feel for the new empire.  It's not going to be an ideal test, but perhaps it will help me see what performs and what does not.  And I may or may not have some of the other FLGSers stop by for some matches.

The helblaster exceeded my expectations in my game vs high elves (my opponent's as well apparently, I doubt he'll be putting his SMs on the same side of the table ever again), and I certainly want to try it with an engineer next time, the reroll and higher BS should turn it into a powerhouse

[Timothias]

I played a very, very tough optimised ETC Skaven list against an opponent I have only beaten once, and actually drew! Was a great leap in results, I am normally tabled.

Buffs, buffs, buffs. Stank is great. Hold the Line... fantastic. Looking forward to getting more games in - have a meeting with Wood Elves this weekend.

[mr chumley warner]

fought for 1st time this weekend, 4K then 2K games,

both conceded by me in turn 4...

gutted,

luck not on my side, but I still can't fathom Goblins = 3 pts with spear and shield vs Halberds = 6 pts ,

especially when netted both units might as well be equal stats,

who cares about initiative when you have 100 goblins in a unit etc etc

[Unuhexium]

So far 8th ed. Empire has worked really well for me (something like five games). When I've lost, I really feel it's been mostly due to me becoming dumb at the worst possible moment. Had a 2k game vs chaos dwarves today (the old book). It was a fun and hard fought game against a really good player. Tried a Hurricanum and it seems like a really good choice for 130 pts. The +1 to hit stacks really well with halberdiers with a warrior priest. Favourite unit by far is halberdiers by the way. It is really easy to increase a unit's chance to hit, but harder to increase its hitting power (strength of the attack), thus my preference for halberdiers over spearmen. Biggest disappointment so far are my knights, but that might be me playing them completely wrong since people seem to think that they are pretty good.

Did Cruddace go over the top with the nerfing? Yes, in some cases. Did he write a good book? Need a few more games against more and different opponents, but so far I'm inclined to say yes.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I've only played one game so far, 1000 points against someone who turned out to have 1300 points including a steam tank and Marius.

For myself, the mace is nice for whacking steam tanks. Runefangs are just plain evil, especially when you don't make your 4+ ward saves.

Great weapon knights are good for grinding, except when taking four hits from a runefang... 

Handgunners can kill halberds, perhaps not as well as a helblaster, but enough to weaken them in combat.

Light magic is fun, but I'd probably go with shadow next time.

I'm painting up my recently acquired but old model of Marius. He'd be 4 points cheaper than my Lector and I get to have a runefang too.

[Johan Willhelm]

All 3 of my games in the last year have been with the new book.

New magic is lovely and makes sense. Random charge distance is . . . strange to old school folks like myself but kind of makes sense.

Errrrr what else . . . Armour / Ward / Regeneration clarification is good!

Oh and no 1+ to hit for missile troops to large targets is blooming annoying . . .

[Syn Ace]

I've played 2 games with the new Empire book and both were draws though I should have lost the 2nd one because of a couple bone-headed plays on my part.

2nd game against warriors of chaos, I actually ran 25 flaggies and they did okay, nuking a unit of chaos hounds and then overruning into a hellcannon and beating it up. You definitely want to attack the right unit because of the auto-martyring. You have an excellent chance of rerolling wounds and hits. I'll need a couple of more games to decide on their effectiveness, but regardless, I'll run them every so often just because I like to mix it up and like to see how my generalship is with a non-optimized list.

STank did great first game, blew a boiler test early 2nd game and missed the charge. Got charged by 40 flail-swinging Khorne Marauders and a unit of Trolls. Held them up for a couple of turns though the Troll vomit is a pain because no armor save if he wounds you with it.

Demigryphs killed 3 chaos knights, but he made his brea test and next round the DGs whiffed but the chaos  hero on the juggernaut and the chaos knights didn't. Lost 2 DGs and the 3rd on ran. I do like this unit though.

I have yet to do anything effective with the buff carts -- against chaos I took the Lumenark and a Hurricanum but I had power dice issues and then he got of Pandemonium which I failed to dispel and it caused one of my Wizards to Miscast which ended my magic phase. I was never able to get their bound spells off.

Haven't had chance at a supporting charge with my detachments yet.

[Kimiko]

Hurricanium is worth taking for the +1 to hit and +1PD , don´t ever waste PD on the bound spell unless it's the only thing on the table that can spend them (by that time you should have already lost the game  )

[Borgio the Besieger]

Witchhunters - I havent been able to deliver him into contact with his foe yet Anyone with good idea's here please share!

How about a forlorn hope? Have you considered taking him in a moderate sized unit of Huntsmen, deploying close to your target and then charge turn two or postition so he charges you turn one. The huntsmen will not survive long, but then again do they ever? The goal is just to do some damage to an important character (enemy mage, etc) early on or with good luck take them out. Empire is fairly vulnerable to enemy magic. Dead enemy wizards cast no spells. 

[Darknight]

Dead enemy wizards cast no spells.

Necromancers and Liches beg to differ.

[Ambrose]

Played one 2500 point battle against ogres.  I lost, but it was a good learning experience.

TGM with runefang and OTS is AWSOME.  I had him in with Knightly Order of 8 with WP.  They decimated his ogre Mournfang calvary of 4.  My 3 demigryphs destroyed his stone horn.

Hold the line is awesome.

WP are awesome.

I tried the Luminark and believe the Huricanum is WAAAY better.  I didn't get the bound spell of at all (dispelled or not enough PD) and the ward save did not save much.  Too random for my taste.  The Huricanum's +1 is guaranteed and a better choice IMO.

Helblaster with Engineer = awesome.

I think I lost because I failed four very important leadership tests at critical moments throughout the game.  This kind of sucked because all my horde units were stubborn (Greatswords and CoC on second unit).  Yes, rolling 11+ four times at critical moments sucked, but no set of rules will help against bad dice rolling.

Detachments worked well if used right.

I like the new book.

Ambrose

[RockabillGR]

Demigriffs rock.

The end.

[pippin_nl]

I played a tournament this weekend with my empire list, it was the most important team event in the Netherlands, so some strong players there.

My list (no double rares, no triple specials, no SC's allowed):

Wizard Lord (Death) + dispel scroll
Mounted WP (General) + VHS 1+ save
Mounted WP 1+ save, fear
Mounted BSB 1+ save, fear, stubborn

44 + 20 Halberdiers FC
6 IC Knights FC

5 Reiksguard BM
2 Cannons
3 DG Knights BM

Steam Tank
Hurricanum
Hellblaster + Master Engineer

First Battle versus O&G, Meeting Engagement:

This was an easy win (18-2) due to seeing a Lord mounted on a monster on the other side. Killed it the first turn with my cannons (Goblins already fled from the battle in two turns) and used my magic (Doom & Darkness) to break his units (charging them with my DG Knights). After that I cleaned up the trolls.

Second Battle versus Lizardmen, Blood & Glory

Just a few points short of winning (10-10). Cannons had no problem with the Engine of the Gods (Tank Cannon joined in the fun). Steam Tank took out some skinks, but failed to wipe out 3 kroxigors in time (they charged). DG Knights joined the Tank, but after killing one were no longer in the combat (he held after losing by 2, LD 10 coldblooded with reroll does that). IC Knights took out some skinks, but were almost killed by salamanders in turn (nasty creatures).

My magic utterly failed me as he took away my sixes (some Slann power), while his Life magic thrived (+1 PD per spell). So all in all it was a draw as you also got half points for any unit below 25%.

Third battle versus Daemons, Battleline

Again a draw. I started well when his Bloodthirster advanced towards my general to avoid the cannons (hiding behind a huge rock). General in the same IC Knight unit as the BSB charged the monster and one speculum later it was all over for the Thirster.

Unfortunately his magic went far better with two Heralds of Tzeentch (Shadow & Life, all spells). He also had two dispel scrolls (Spellbreaker). My halberdiers were halved and only in the last turn did I Fate of Bjuna one of the Heralds.

His bloodletter horde took my Reiksguard by surprise moving 16 inches (bonus D6 on the charge). After that I used the Tank (who first had to avenge a Cannon destroyed by Furies) to stop his horde.

The DG knights killed some Furies and a Bloodcrusher and were in turn almost wiped out by 24 Bloodletters (six wide). I charged with the Hurricanum in the back of this unit to keep it in place.

My IC Knights joined by my General and BSB were charged by 5 Fiends (the sixth was cannonballed) and all Knights were lost, but LD 9 rerollable with Hold the Line and Stubborn was enough to stay alive.

My detachment of 20 Halberdiers charged 5 Flamers, but did was not enough in the end (8 Halberdiers and 3 Flamers left)