Topic: Looking for advice with using cavalry.

[Sigmars Faithful]

Hello all.

I have been a regular lurker for a couple of years and now is my time to start posting.  I was hoping to get some guidance on how to properly use cavalry.  I know there have been great posts (which I have found very useful) educating on the different units, but I was looking more for how to properly use those units.  I started playing Warhammer as a Dwarf player.  With this in mind, the movement phase was something I ignored as it usually just resulted in me adjusting my frontage to prepare for a charge...

When I started playing Empire a couple of years ago, I found myself playing a similar style.  Defensive posture - let my artillery sing - clean up what has reached my lines.  With the new book and introduction of great cavalry choices, I find myself wanting to be more offensive and aggessive.  The four games I have played so far have been epic failures.  My knights never seem to be in tune with the timing of the rest of my force.

I was hoping the community could present some excellent tactics in the use of our knights.  Should I deploy all of my cav to one flank and attempt a sweeping flank?  Should I hold the cav in reserve as my main infantry blocks lumber forward?  Is a dual charge from two knight units enough to break a foe or should I wait for a larger Infantry unit to join for the ability to break steadfast?  If so, how to my knights not get magic'd/ shot to hell while waiting?

Thank you for the help and I look forward to some excellent, discussions on using cavalry.  Apologies ahead of time if this is rich with the smell of n00b 

[librisrouge]

In my opinion, knights opperate in a weird area for empire. We are very good at the grind but that isn't what knights do well at all. This is the lesson I learned with knights:

Knights are about the BREAK

If you can't break your enemy, or atleast wittle them down to a managable size, then don't commit to combat. They're faster so they can avoid combat. Also, unlike other armies, we have a cure to rubber lance syndrome...the warrior priest. Hatred really makes these guys shine and in the new army book they are cheap enough to be included in any knight unit.

One last thing, knights have a +1 armor save. Guys in my store hate that empire (T3, horde playing Empire  ) has an affordable +1 armor save unit. They're tough. If the enemy can't hurt them or they're stubborn (crown, Reiksguard, etc.) they can hold units for some time until you can get a group of state troops there to finish the job.

[sammay23]

My first piece of advice is to start playing with several units of knights. I made the same transition that you did = Dwarfs -> defensive Empire. I LOVE playing with multiple knight units now. Here are the major differences:

1) Movement.

Your optimal charge range increases dramatically with swiftstride and M7. Get used to this. 15 inches is your average charge range. Learn to love it. Also, you will need to be thinking several moves ahead in order to optimize a cav list. You want to be thinking about overruns, flanks, and such. You'll need to change your way of thinking a bit.

2) Combat.

Knights offer two attacks per model - 1 from the Knight and one from the horse, who fights like a spearman. Remember this. Horses kill. They also benefit from buffs. A unit of 10 vanilla knights in two ranks has 15 attacks, not 10. If you've wildformed that unit, all attacks come at +1 str.

You need to get the charge. I can't state this enough. S5 or S6 really matters in terms of that initial impact. Practice practice practice.

Think about multi-charges. Setting up a charge from multiple units can dramatically increase your ability to punch through an enemy. It still isn't likely to work on a horde, but if you're fighting things that crumble, you can practically double your damage output through good CR.

3) Unit composition.

IC and Reiksguard are, in my opinion, the only units worth taking a lot of. S4 on subsequent rounds of combat makes a big difference, and is worth the extra 3 to 5 points. Build your big blocks around these. Take small units of vanilla knights. In darts of 3x2 they can do excellent harassing and will destroy any warmachine they touch - even Ironblasters. You can and should use these small units to set up bigger charges with your large units.

Heroes have their place. I'd argue that hatred is even more important with Knights than infantry, as your S5/S6 attacks really need to hit. Take warrior priests. Captains are quite good too, offering an additional 3 S6 attacks and hold the line.

I'm ambivalent about the Grandmaster.

4) Steam Tanks

You need at least one for a cav list. Nothing holds up those hordes better, and the STank offers you a cannon without the need to protect it from warmachine hunters. Must have, in my opinion.

[Borgio the Besieger]

Have you checked out The round Table of Brettonia? While the army composition is somewhat different and Bretts have a clear advantage with the Lance Formation, this is still a good place to pick up advice on tactics.

[Sigmars Faithful]

Thank you for the great replies!  Sammay, it's nice to know my mindset was not unique.  I have a match up today and will be running a large unit of IC Knights and a unit of Demi-Gryphs.  I am working my way to the 'all cav' list.  Also, I have been playing the new book against Dwarfs and I feel that may be hindering my effectiveness with cavalry.  He uses the castle deployment and doesn't allow flanks.  He peppers my knights with artillery and I panic and rush them into combat.  I will try to be more patient today.

Borgio, I have not checked out the Bret board.  I may just have to do that while drinking my morning coffee!

Thanks again for the comments.

[wardancer]

Very interesting thread. I will be trying "majority cav" list myself soon, with good bit of MSU in it. Stank looks like an interesting option in that set-up as well, never thought about it before

[sammay23]

Regarding Dwarves when the castle, my experience is that you need to focus on breaking ONE unit. Once you open a gap in their line, you can begin to exploit flanks, or just push on to the squishy warmachine center.

Pick the weakest unit in the line and hit it with your best unit of cav. If you can, combo charge with the Steam TAnk (if it survives the artillery).

Castled Dwarves are very very tough to crack with cavalry. You have my sympathies. Try to get some games against other armies. Knights are wonderful against Ogres, for example.

[Von Ulrich]

Empire Knights are really tough.  Not too many units can get past the 1 up armor save.  A couple big units of the Reiks and the other strong ones with all your chars in there.  The rest as 5 man units for Flank protection, diverting, wm hunting etc.

All knights list can work and work well.