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Author Topic: Crossbows or handgunners  (Read 802 times)

Offline Steven1984

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Crossbows or handgunners
« on: May 19, 2012, 05:08:30 AM »
Hi guys I am wrighting my first ever empire list and I was wondering
What is better crossbows or handgunners
Which in your opinion is better and why?

Offline rothgar13

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 05:14:50 AM »
I was debating this choice myself not that long ago. I ended up taking Crossbows because of the better range.

Offline Clymer

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 06:14:49 AM »
Kind of depends on what you're up against and what your play style is. The crossbows extra range is a major boon in terms of flexibility and even armies that are generally heavily armored usually have some lightly armored or small support units that are the perfect target for crossbows. There's also no difference between a crossbow and a handgun when shooting at many monsters, such as giants and helpits. I would consider crossbows to be better most of the time.

If you've got a thing for sniping with hochland long rifles and you play a more stand-offish style and you usually face high AS armies, then the more specialized handgunners could be for you. Whereas the crossbows will get you an extra turn of shooting if you go first, you can get essentially the same advantage with handguns by backing your line up by your opponent's M. You won't get to shoot in turn 1, but you will in turns 2, 3 and probably in turn 4 as well because the charge range for your opponent in turn 4 will be extremely long. You might even get a bonus round if he fail-charges your handgunners at the long charge range. Of course, if you use crossbows with the exact same tactics described above, it's quite possible to get 4 turns of shooting, instead of just 3.

But still, generally go with crossbows, the range really makes the difference.
Note: The above post was intended for entertainment purposes only and may contain views not necessarily held by its author. Any similarity to actual facts is purely coincidental.

Online Lord Solar Plexus

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 06:54:17 AM »
You could also field both I believe...I personally favour Crossbows but my main opponents are Elves and Skaven. Or rather, I favour Outriders at the moment but that's partly because of a better paint job and nicer models.

Clymer, I don't understand your reasoning. The charge distance for M4 infantry in any "over 24" apart" scenario and you deploying 4" back will be 4" on turn 4, not extra long (3*8=24).


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Offline Steven1984

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 08:57:57 AM »
Thanks guys you have been very helpful.
Just so you all know I have decided to go with crossbows instead of hand gunners

Offline Rhasis

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 10:18:06 PM »
Depends, in my opinion.

Vs dwarfs, for example, i usually took handgunners.. they are slow and wear heavy armors (slow armies -> more shots, less diference between 24' and 30') . But vs bretonnia, skavens, etc, i would prefer crossbows, because 1 more round > armor penetration.

I think that handgunners and spearmans are best at defensive play styles, and halberdiers and crossbows are best at agressive play styles.

Excuse my english.

Offline Noght

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 11:33:42 PM »
My first thought is neither, just buy a Volley Gun, but if you must the answer is probably Xbows for range honestly.
Best shooting choice is Outriders right now though.

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Offline Raulmichile

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2012, 12:41:13 PM »
My first thought is neither, just buy a Volley Gun, but if you must the answer is probably Xbows for range honestly.
Best shooting choice is Outriders right now though.

Noght

But they are specials while xbows/handgunners are core; something to be taken into account sometimes, specially for specials as it is a contested department with other tasty choices to pick from.
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Offline mr chumley warner

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2012, 01:00:58 PM »
if u have 2 have either , then XBOWS ,

i always found it amusing to fire at the enemy from Turn 1 with the 30''

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Offline Battlekruse

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2012, 01:31:01 PM »
I always take Crossbowmen normal in 2x12 groups (No upgrade) as I like that 30" range.

I only take handgunners when I am playing against Chaos Warrior, heavy armoured dwarfs or Knights.

Offline yoy1zoz2mom3

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 07:50:10 AM »
I just make them as Crossbowmen and if I want handgunners i say they are fiering (heavy) explosive tipped bolts  :happy:
We don't need to reason why,
we just need to glue and buy.

Offline Clymer

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 08:08:23 AM »
You could also field both I believe...I personally favour Crossbows but my main opponents are Elves and Skaven. Or rather, I favour Outriders at the moment but that's partly because of a better paint job and nicer models.

Clymer, I don't understand your reasoning. The charge distance for M4 infantry in any "over 24" apart" scenario and you deploying 4" back will be 4" on turn 4, not extra long (3*8=24).

Doh! Sorry for the long reply time, I didn't realize I'd been addressed. Funny thing is that somehow I worked that math out in my head against Skaven's M5 and actually played it out in a game where I ended up with 4 turns of shooting, but in hindsight there was some other movement disruption that caused his long time to advance.

Well, the logic should work with different numbers though (maybe the opponent's march distance -1"?). The problem then is that you're getting too far back and too close to the board edge. Still, I think that maybe just goes to the point of crossbows being more versatile in general.

Then again... I was listening to the guy doing the review of the ogre book on Bad Dice podcast and he said something that resonated with me as being basically true, but that I never really articulated. In a 2400 point game, really 2000 of your points are doing the heavy lifting. You've got to build that essential core of a hard army. After that, you can kind of take what you want with that last 400 points without too much detriment. So, maybe if you get yourself a strong enough core, it doesn't really matter whether your small support units are crossbows or handgunners.
Note: The above post was intended for entertainment purposes only and may contain views not necessarily held by its author. Any similarity to actual facts is purely coincidental.

Offline Steven1984

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Re: Crossbows or handgunners
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 08:36:28 AM »
Thanks for all the reply's guys