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Author Topic: Ward Save Stack?  (Read 1549 times)

Offline Grutch

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Ward Save Stack?
« on: May 24, 2012, 12:13:15 AM »
Swordsmen  6+ parry ward save, stacks with warrior priest ward buff for a 4+ save?  or do you just roll the 5+ save for the priest?  If yes,  what about the lascannon magewagon+ priestbuff +parry,  does that make the swordsman a 3+ wardsave unit?

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Offline rothgar13

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2012, 12:16:10 AM »
Only the 5+ save for the Priest. The only Ward saves that stack with other Ward saves are Magic Resistance and the Mark of Tzeentch for Warriors of Chaos, because they explicitly say they do.

Offline Syn Ace

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2012, 01:02:23 AM »
Yep, you just take the best ward save possible, except in the cases that rothgar states.
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Offline Grutch

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2012, 01:46:24 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you're a bad man!




[Really Grutch, do you have to use that language? This isn't the Back Table -Perambulator]
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:15:51 PM by Perambulator »
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Offline Raulmichile

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2012, 03:00:52 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of ***,  you */&é"'§, I hope you get ****.

ooooooookaaaaaayyyy.... :icon_eek:
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That should leave the intent of the message, without the offensiveness
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 07:46:40 AM by warhammerlord_soth »
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Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2012, 03:23:40 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you're a bad man!
Because people thought halverdiers were too cheap for S4, and in order to increase their cost they just increased everyone across the board.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:16:18 PM by Perambulator »

Offline shavixmir

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2012, 04:58:58 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you're a bad man!
Easy Leonard...

(hope you've seen Full Metal Jacket... to get the reference)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:16:29 PM by Perambulator »
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Offline malladin_ben

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 05:28:25 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

The new detachment rules. the transferable buffs and special rules really are amazing.

Ben
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:16:39 PM by Perambulator »

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 06:25:20 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you're a bad man!

The new detachment rules. the transferable buffs and special rules really are amazing.

Ben

Nope. They're equally as good as the old detachment rules. In some parts worse. Shooting detachments for example.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:16:50 PM by Perambulator »

Offline TexasYankee

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 03:54:19 PM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

This would so be my new sig, if the mods wouldn't take it down due to the profanity- wait, don't you own this site?  :mrgreen:

On a more serious note:

If the Warriors of Chaos book is the next book to come out, how much do you figure Marauders will go up in points? Will they get nerfed to I3 as well?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:17:02 PM by Perambulator »
So, what would you guys do if some dude came at you with a belt that way?
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Offline commandant

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2012, 04:09:02 PM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

The new detachment rules. the transferable buffs and special rules really are amazing.

Ben

The detachment rules are slightly worse for shooting and much much better for combat

Nope. They're equally as good as the old detachment rules. In some parts worse. Shooting detachments for example.

Some of the shooting rules are slightly worse but the combat is much better
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:17:11 PM by Perambulator »

Offline Volks

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2012, 05:01:02 PM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

Dude, its just a game...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:17:21 PM by Perambulator »
Nordland is really cool. They fight pirates and party on the beach. Sort of like a Disney film.

Offline Johan Willhelm

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2012, 05:29:29 PM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

Oh I don't know Grutch. It seems to have irked you and that's good enough for me!  :-P

I think Swordsmen are alright for seven points. 6+ Ward in cc (which I appreciate has an element of passing water into the wind . . .) coupled with a 5+ save. I think the two in conjunction aren't actually that bad. A wizard running around with naught but a 6+ward and smile might as well pop his Teclis Magic Orbs in a fire for roasting but coupled with the armour it's ok. But then I think the fact you can gallivant around with a bit more Holy Roman   Empire heraldry on display is worth a point . . .

Ahh do you remember that one time you and me agreed Grutch? It was summer and you scooped me up in your strong anti-unionised arms but you still couldn't actually believe it. It was like up was down, black was white, and Arwen was the best lady in Middle Earth* :happy:

*clearly Rosie or Eowyn at a push as a by the by
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:17:34 PM by Perambulator »
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Offline Mechanical Monkey

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2012, 07:43:25 PM »
If you think swordsmen are overcosted then you should use the version from Tamurkhan, because ,erm, well erm,yeah they are overcosted as well.
Why would he look there?  Never ever has there been balls under an elf's robes.   :closed-eyes:

Offline Grutch

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2012, 09:36:33 PM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

Dude, its just a game...

This comment goes perfect with your avatar.    :icon_biggrin:
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:17:48 PM by Perambulator »
Grutch is the best. If anyone doesn’t like him he just punches them in the face. You’re such a pussy!

Mexicans.

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2012, 12:27:53 AM »
If the Warriors of Chaos book is the next book to come out, how much do you figure Marauders will go up in points? Will they get nerfed to I3 as well?

They'll get cheaper by one point, and their stats will stay the same, but they'll get a cool new rule.  :engel:

Offline stretch_135

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2012, 04:54:40 AM »
If the Warriors of Chaos book is the next book to come out, how much do you figure Marauders will go up in points? Will they get nerfed to I3 as well?

They'll get cheaper by one point, and their stats will stay the same, but they'll get a cool new rule.  :engel:

Only because there'll be a new box of them out. With 10 models. At $AU65 a pop. *thumbs up*
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Offline malladin_ben

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2012, 05:32:39 AM »
Okay then,  nothing explains why swordsmen are now 7 points.  Robin Crudface, you piece of shit,  you're a bad man!

The new detachment rules. the transferable buffs and special rules really are amazing.

Ben

Nope. They're equally as good as the old detachment rules. In some parts worse. Shooting detachments for example.

I seem to have missed something. How have shooting detachments got worse?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 02:18:00 PM by Perambulator »

Offline Grutch

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2012, 05:43:36 AM »
they havent got worse at all.  Crossbows and Handgunners went up a point, and having them as a detachment when your warrior priest casts flaming is just pure awesome.  I could almost justify the point increase for that possible buff alone (I just wish the wagon would buff their to hit as well).   Is there a magic lore that does such a thing?

-Grutch
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2012, 05:57:58 AM »
Lore of metal: Enchanted blades of Aiban (also AP, FA and magical attacks).
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Online Krag

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2012, 06:37:11 AM »
The points increase may be justified if you have/get bufs on the troops. IF you have/get them...
Awesome buffs or not, the price for buffs should be on the unit that cause the buff, not on the unit that perhaps might get it!

I find it a crazy way of pricing the petty troops of the empire. This way you are more or less forced to play this stacking buff style. This again means we have fewer ways to put a list together, than if for examble the the complete price of soulfire was on the priest.

It also means that the bigger points played, the better the Empire gets, as you get more from the buffs you paid for.

Its stupid I think...

However, I find the spirit of the list to be fine even though I was not aware our list was so good that it had to get nerf on such a scale.

Offline Daymz

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2012, 06:52:43 AM »
I don't think it would be too good to add up the points of the possible buffs to the character himself. In the old army book, that was alright. Almost every prayer had something to do with character models - not with units. And 90 Points turned quite hefty, in my opinion, when 8th began. I'd rather pay 65 Pts. for a Warrior Priest, hence get more points remaining in the heroes section, and pay more for the buff receivers, which are mostly core units and get my core up to minimum quickly enough.

Also, the math for the swordsmen points even out for me. Because:

- For 6 Points, you get a halberdier. He carries light armour, and, thanks to his halberd, he gets S4. Hence, he wounds +1 better than the swordsman does. If you add another point, he gets to carry a shield, but he can't use it in CC, making it useful only for missile attacks.

- For 7 Points, you get a swordsman. He carries light armour, AND has the shield in there. Also, he has a basic WS of 4. Against enemies with WS3, he hits +1 better than the halberdier. In addition, enemies with WS4 hit the swordsmen on -1 compared to halberdiers. Apart from that, the shield CAN be used in CC, and hence the swordsman has a 5+ AS at all times. Plus, in CC, he gets to have a parry save at 6+.

What I'm trying to say is: If the Swordsmen were 6 points, they'd be just a bit undercosted for what you get. At 7 points a model, compared to our other choices of 6 points (halberd without shield) and 5 points (spearmen without shield), I believe them to be just fine. I believe that the shield's extra point is often forgotten.

Basically, you get 5+ AS at all times, Parry save and +1 WS for 7 points.

A halberdier gets +1 S, 5+ AS against missile and 6+ in CC, for 7 points. Seems legit to me, when you count the shield.
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Offline Grutch

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2012, 07:22:22 AM »
I don't think it would be too good to add up the points of the possible buffs to the character himself. In the old army book, that was alright. Almost every prayer had something to do with character models - not with units. And 90 Points turned quite hefty, in my opinion, when 8th began. I'd rather pay 65 Pts. for a Warrior Priest, hence get more points remaining in the heroes section, and pay more for the buff receivers, which are mostly core units and get my core up to minimum quickly enough.

Also, the math for the swordsmen points even out for me. Because:

- For 6 Points, you get a halberdier. He carries light armour, and, thanks to his halberd, he gets S4. Hence, he wounds +1 better than the swordsman does. If you add another point, he gets to carry a shield, but he can't use it in CC, making it useful only for missile attacks.

- For 7 Points, you get a swordsman. He carries light armour, AND has the shield in there. Also, he has a basic WS of 4. Against enemies with WS3, he hits +1 better than the halberdier. In addition, enemies with WS4 hit the swordsmen on -1 compared to halberdiers. Apart from that, the shield CAN be used in CC, and hence the swordsman has a 5+ AS at all times. Plus, in CC, he gets to have a parry save at 6+.

What I'm trying to say is: If the Swordsmen were 6 points, they'd be just a bit undercosted for what you get. At 7 points a model, compared to our other choices of 6 points (halberd without shield) and 5 points (spearmen without shield), I believe them to be just fine. I believe that the shield's extra point is often forgotten.

Basically, you get 5+ AS at all times, Parry save and +1 WS for 7 points.

A halberdier gets +1 S, 5+ AS against missile and 6+ in CC, for 7 points. Seems legit to me, when you count the shield.

You're Crudface in disguise!  Cmon own up to it!
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Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2012, 07:32:13 AM »
Dark Elf spearmen are 6 points.  :engel:

Online Krag

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Re: Ward Save Stack?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2012, 08:36:49 AM »
Dark Elf spearmen are 6 points.  :engel:
Exactly, 1 point over our spearman, but many times better!!! (5 stat-points + hatred)
AND since they can be used to sacrifice for an extra dice when casting a spell they should pay for that also (if the logic of troopers paying for possible extra uses was applied)...
But they dont, so why should the Empire halbardier???