Topic: ANOTHER 2500 tournament list, in slight comp, please review.

[Daymz]

So, there is another tourney coming up in july. 2'500 Pts. is the name of the game, comp. system is C.O.M.B.A.T 8.0. For those who never heard of it, just a small run-down on the most important thingies:

- A spell is cast at a max of 4 PD
- Max. 80 models with missile weapons (whereas certain units tend to extra count as such)
- max. of 3 template using models (incl. breath weapons etc.)
- Max. of 45 models per unit, then points-wise restricted: 9-11 pts. = 40 models, 12-14 pts. = 35 models, etc.
Empire: Max. 1 STank, max. 2 cannons - STank is considered a cannon, too. STank is also 10 missile weapons, engineers are 5 and HBVGs are 15 missile weapons extra. Max. of 8 Demigryphs.

So I thought up the following...:

2'500 points empire tourney list

General: General of the Empire, FPA, shield
107 Pts.
Templar Grand Master with Runefang, The Other Trickster's Shard, shield
259 Pts.
Wizard Lord LVL 4, unsure of the lore - advice welcome!, dispel scroll

Warrior Priest, heavy armour, Dragonhelm, great weapon, warhorse with barding
98 Pts.
Warrior Priest, heavy armour, shield
69 Pts.
Master Engineer
65 Pts.

40 Halberdiers, full command
270 Pts.
->Detachment of 19 Swordsmen
133 Pts.
->Detachment of 5 Archers
35 Pts.

11 Knights of the inner circle, full command, standard of steel
340 Pts.

3 Demigryphs, C, M
194 Pts.
3 Demigryphs, full command, banner of eternal flame
214 Pts.
1 Great Cannon
120 Pts.

1 HBVG
120 Pts.
1 STank
250 Pts.

Total: 2499 Pts.

...I only just now realised that I don't even have a BSB in that army. ...That said, do you think that will be too much of a problem with that army? I go on a very offense-oriented style here and the scattering of my individual cavalry units and the cavalry towards the infantry begs the question of whether I need that one?

Altogether, what do you think?

Oh yeah, and one more thing: More demigryphs is not negotiable due to monetary reasons. I can afford buying an extra box of them (hence two units of three), but I cannot afford two more.

[Steven1984]

The main thing I would say is make both units of 3 demigryph knights into a unit of six because in my experance when they are in a unit of 6 they can take out any unit in the game i managed to take out a unit of 20 chaos warriors with mark of kourn
And I was surprised how quick and easy it was.
Just a sergestion.
Hope I have helped

[Forgotten Beast]

No BSB is an enormous problem!!! I think having only LD9 is an enormous problem, and no bsb is way worse! 

[Annum]

Well leadership 9 is as good as Empire get without specifically taking items to get to 10(only exception is Karl Franz) however I do think you need a BSB in with the halberdiers, not only for the re rolls but also for "cold skinned" 3d6 lowest 2 on that unit, 40 would take a little while to break through but once you lose steadfast thats that unit gone and even with steadfast its far from certain that they will stay. I'd say for the points cost of a BSB with full plate and a shield(4+and 6+ com ward) for only 93 pts its almost a must have in any army.

That being said I really like the list HBVG and Stank are awesome the Knights are how I have them, the characters are pretty much the same as I do although I don't always take the TGM but if I do he's normally set up as you have him. I also go with 2 units of 3 demigryphs, I really don't agree with above comment about taking a unit of 6, the spread threat of having 2 units is great, taking a unit of 6 does less  damage for the points and makes them too much of a target for cannons, template weapons and spells. What I would say is I like them as only a musician as I find they do enough damage on their own without need of champions and standards, however depending on opponent, banner of Eternal Flame is a decent choice.

Oh and as far as lore goes I tend to rotate between Life, Light and Metal.....but shadow is also an option. Alll these lores have at least 1 spell to buff units, which is really important for your core troops. I've been using Life lately because I find it a good mix, Dwellers below(amazing damage spell), +2 toughness spell, 5+ regen spell, resurrect spell and Throne of vines which buffs the other spells.

Anyway hope that helps at all!

[Newt]

The main thing I would say is make both units of 3 demigryph knights into a unit of six because in my experance when they are in a unit of 6 they can take out any unit in the game i managed to take out a unit of 20 chaos warriors with mark of kourn
And I was surprised how quick and easy it was.
Just a sergestion.
Hope I have helped

Did you run the unit 3x2 or something?  That really seems like a waste of 3 demi gryphs.  why not 2 units of 3 with one flanking said chaos unit?  You dont get full attacks from monstrous cavalry in the second rank.

[Steven1984]

You may not get the extra attacks from the second rank but it just means that they have to try and get rid of 3 knights before they can even think about killing the knights that are dealing out the attacks and you would of more than likely have wiped out your oponents unit by then.
But that is just my thought I normaly run them in a unit of 3 myself because I can't afford the points for 6 but when I can I always take a unit of 6

[Daymz]

Thanks for the replies, first of all!

Yup, Forgotten Beast, the BSB is indeed lacking and is just too necessary to leave out. Hence, I put up a new list, following below, where I cut some corners to put him in.

Also, I will indeed stick with 2x3 Demigryphs instead of 1x6. It gives me another unit to deploy, another tactical instrument and spreads the threat, as so nicely put by Annum. Also, it still is 9 wounds worth of 1+ AS knights to take down per unit, which means a lot of focused shooting or a lot of attacks to grind them down. 1x6 is more robust, of course, but then again there are a whole load of eggs in that basket and when they flee and are overrun... *shiver* I believe that 2x3 do give me more choices. Also, they do, all in all, give me way more attacks.

I have been considering lores and taking the comped environment into account, the lore of heavens somehow seems hell attractive. I can only cast spells at a max of 4 PD in the comp., but my opponents can dispel as usual. The comet is one spell that is likely dispelled, and it only comes at a casting value of 12+. That's neatly cheap, and apart from that, I get high-strength support and might just get to re-roll all my 1s, which is a major boost taking knights into account, which my army is heavy on. Besides that, the signature spell sure is nice.

This is my new list. Notable changes (apart from a BSB I cut some corners for) is that now, my grand master is my general! Because my halberdiers and detachs are Ld9 ANYWAY thanks to the general of the empire in there, and my knights are likely going out of the bubble of that infantry man too soon. Same goes for the bsb.

TGM, shield, runefang, the other trickster's shard (general)
259 Pts.

General of the Empire, fpa, shield
107 Pts.

Wizard lord of Heavens lvl 4, dispel scroll
225 Pts.

Warrior Priest, great weapon, heavy armour, barded warhorse
88 Pts.

Warrior Priest, heavy armour, shield
69 Pts.

Master engineer
65 Pts.

Captain (BSB), lance, fpa, shield, barded warhorse
116 Punkte

37 Halberdiers, full command
+ 15 Swordsmen detachment
+ 5 Archers detachment
392 Pts. total

9 Inner circle knightly orders with lances, full command, Standard of Steel
290 Pts.

3 Demigryphs, musician
184 Pts.

3 Demigryphs, full command, banner of the eternal flame
214 Pts.

1 Great cannon
120 Pts.

1 Steamtank
250 Pts.

1 HBVG
120 Pts.

Total: 2499 Pts.

What do you think? I mainly cut corners on the ridden warrior priest, the demigryph champ, the halbs and their detachment of swordsmen. Looking better?

[Swan-of-War]

You've got three Lords (I believe you can only take 2, correct?)

[Daymz]

You've got three Lords (I believe you can only take 2, correct?)

Nope, never heard any such a thing.

By the way, I'm contemplating a mount for my wizard lord, putting him into the IC knights - as well. That however means that all my characters, except the GotE, will find themselves in that unit. It doesn't necessarily mean that this is bad, ... But it's quite one unit as a key to the enemy's victory.

If, however, I keep him on foot, I need fear that I get out of range for my harmonic convergence all too soon with my cavalry. Then again, if mounted, a miscast of 2-4 and 5-6 means a load of dead knights. Hell, even when I roll a 7! An option would be to put him into a unit of DGs mounted, but then again, that means he's dead upon the first CC. Choices, choices...

(That said, putting him into DGs doesn't seem like much of an option at all)

[Swan-of-War]

Well then, learn something new every day. 

[Daymz]

How did you think it was restricted, Swan-of-War?

Slotting is out since 8th began (except that under 3000 points, you can only have three times the same elite choice and twice the same rare choice, which doubles in games 3000+). As long as the points fit the 25% margin of point allowance for lords, I can take as many as I want 

It was back in 6th and 7th that they were slotted. If that were still the case, I would've only been allowed one Lord choice in fact (for games 2000-2999 Pts.).

[Swan-of-War]

For some reason I thought it was subject to the same Duplicate Choices restrictions as Specials and Rares.
But its not - so if you run 'em cheap enough, Lords galore!

[PeytonS]

For some reason I thought it was subject to the same Duplicate Choices restrictions as Specials and Rares.
But its not - so if you run 'em cheap enough, Lords galore!

Even if they were he still has three different Lord choices!

List looks good man, I'd rather a shield on the mounted wp for the 2+, but that's just me!

Cheers

Peyton

[Annum]

Hey again!
Now thats a solid list! Love it, the only things I'd say are, I don't like Heavens, but that might just be me:) I think they are over costed casting costwise. Also I'm not sure on the wizard on a mount with Knights I know what you mean for keeping him within range but I think that would be a fairly big risk, what I do is either put in combat horde unit at edge of formation with talisman of Preservation or accept the range problem and put in with missile troops and defend them. I know you can't have everything but I like a unit 12 knights, I find they take a fair amount of damage and the extra wounds pay off!
But anyway good luck!
Annum

[RockabillGR]

List looks good, Heavens is very good actually I say stick with it.

[Daymz]

Thanks everyone for reviewing, giving hints and critique. Tourney was last saturday and I ranked in 3rd out of 22!

Were it for tournament-kill-points only, I would've even ranked in 2nd  which was the best result I ever had in a tournament.

Games were against WoC (18:2), WoC (7:13) and Khemri (19:1). Demigryphs stood out as immensely diverse and reliable units, and the steamtank was a very important factor as well. My halberdier bus hardly ever saw actual combat but managed to be a threat by existing and provided decent protection for my wizard, except in the first game, when he got deathspelled to death on turn 1. 

So, again, cheers everyone! 

[Annum]

Congrats mate, glad it worked well and you were happy with it!