Topic: convince me that flagellants are worth running pls

[Fandir Nightshade]

There is no +1 to wound I think just re rolling to wound rolls.

But alone with hatred they should be fine. dealing something like 12 wounds to ironguts before they get to strike is not bad at all.

I think they also work well with lore of the heavens the re roll all 1s is nice shouldn´t you have those re rolls to wound prayers up.

[Warhammer-Weib]

Is there a reason to run them?

 

[Judgex83]

So flagellants do The Robot into battle?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Is there a reason NOT to run them?

Picture of abomination above.

 

Fixed that for you. Otherwise: no comment. We are all repelled by the idea of men in pink skirts.   

[Syn Ace]

They're probably that shade because of the blood they've tried to rinse out of their formerly white robes.

[Ratarsed]

We are all repelled by the idea of men in pink skirts.   

Are we?

[Swan-of-War]

The guy on the left looks like he's holding a handbag

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

He is. 

[Dosiere]

At first I thought Flagellants absolutely nerfed beyond taking when I got the new Army Book.  In some ways they are, but I have seen them used enough now to know they can be dangerous if allowed to get into a fight with the right enemy unit. 

In almost every case I have seen them do well, it has been with a smallish (10-20) unit of Flagellants against something that strikes after them.  They have the potential to really do some damage against almost anything if they can get their hits in before they get smakced themselves.

So, not useless, but much more situational than before.  I would have a hard time justifying them in an all-comers list.

[Warhammer-Weib]

The guy on the left looks like he's holding a handbag

The whole unit is.

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=40398.275

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I think they also work well with lore of the heavens the re roll all 1s is nice shouldn´t you have those re rolls to wound prayers up.

Speaking of Lores with Flaggies, good 'ol Light with Speed of Light and B-Warp (especially against HE or elites) would still be very nasty. 

[polybus11]

Seeing as I have 60 nicely painted flagellants and love fielding insane units (like my old 7th ed line of 15 outriders), I really want to trot out 60 in one massive unit one day.  Of course that would probably mean nothing else much other than core and chars. 

One of the biggest suck on these guys is no musician.  Since you have frenzy, you will be overrunning any lil speedbump unit and if you don't hit another target, you are going to need a whole turn to reform, v.v. easy to get this kind of unit out of the game by crappy units and of course a unit this big would be a lame duck against all manner of ranged attacks.  Ok, I probably wont ever put this unit on the field considering how often I play these days.   

[Ratarsed]

Play a 6000 point game and go for it! Battle report obligatory.

[zakalwe]

I used to run them in big and small units, new rules changes means they are less of a threat, but still unbreakable.

Against low initiative armies a small unit. 10 or so can sneak in an assassinate characters. Also still good against  slow monstrous infantry or gw wielders. " the end is nigh is more fickle" pretty god for assaulting buildings though.

Generally though the army as a whole requires synergy, so use flagellants in conjunction with miasma or buffs and they are still a force to be reckoned with. Like most of our troops.

[AlphaKrab]

Yeah speed of light is great with them to take out elites.  Back in the previous books days I had them wipe out 16 dark elf black guard which was all he had left before even getting attacked when that unit typically destroys me.  WS 10 I 10 rerolling Misses and Wounds was an insane unit one of the best choices for speed of light.

[Talben21]

Yeah speed of light is great with them to take out elites.  Back in the previous books days I had them wipe out 16 dark elf black guard which was all he had left before even getting attacked when that unit typically destroys me.  WS 10 I 10 rerolling Misses and Wounds was an insane unit one of the best choices for speed of light.

And in the old book I took a lvl 4 Light and the war altar. It was easy to get 1-2 buffs on them and I saw them wipe out whole units of the enemy.

I am not sure if they are worth the points now.

[Syn Ace]

Well, run them a few times against different armies and find out. Theorizing will only get you so far.

[Clymer]

I'll give you five good ways to run them:
1. Combo charge with knights. Maximizing both units means that you can position flaggies for maximum carnage while forcing a couple files of the enemy to throw their attacks into 1+ AS knights.
2. Buff 'em. Light, Beasts, Life, War Altar... take your pick.
3. The flagellant wave. Take two small units ( I like 14 in 2 ranks), line them up one behind the other. The first unit goes in, does carnage and when it wimps out or gets wiped out in the next turn or two of combat, you've got a fresh wave of 14 flagellants. There are very few units in the game that can withstand 2 first rounds of combat with a unit of flagellants.
4. Screen them. An cheap detachment makes an excellent screen, breaking up LoS or granting them a much needed hard cover bonus. The detachment can then combo charge, or charge out of the way. Alternately the detachment can flee without panicking the flagellants behind them, either forcing a redirect or setting up a nice counter charge. Keep a stubborn unit with a lot of wounds nearby as the potential redirect target for your opponent and you can have a devastating counter charge.
5. Clear buildings. They fight with S5 every round they fight!

All that said, there's much less complicated and much more reliable ways to accomplish much of the above without using flagellants. Still, they're pretty tactically fun!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

There are very few units in the game that can withstand 2 first rounds of combat with a unit of flagellants.

Hmm, I don't think I agree with that. All those Elves, Chaos and Skaven here would wipe them out before they strike, and several Bret or Vampire units would take one on the chin and shrug. That's somewhat of a problem when assaulting buildings, too, since their numbers shrink rather fast.

[Clymer]

good points!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Nevertheless that was a very good job of finding some decent ways to use Flagellants, Clymer. That Flagellant wave for example could do quite some damage on Lizards or Dwarfs.

There's also always the option to try to boost them with magic or other stuff, as has been pointed out. This can go a long way to address (and perhaps "redress") their weaknesses. Like some Elves, Flagellants are a glass cannon. The point cost seems too high for everyone used to the old one but once that passes into the hazy shade of history, perhaps players will come to acknowledge the burst damage again.

[MrAbyssal]

Nevertheless that was a very good job of finding some decent ways to use Flagellants, Clymer. That Flagellant wave for example could do quite some damage on Lizards or Dwarfs.

There's also always the option to try to boost them with magic or other stuff, as has been pointed out. This can go a long way to address (and perhaps "redress") their weaknesses. Like some Elves, Flagellants are a glass cannon. The point cost seems too high for everyone used to the old one but once that passes into the hazy shade of history, perhaps players will come to acknowledge the burst damage again.

+1

They might not be AS good, point for point any more, but they're still good. Mine still make a mess of almost anything they hit and normally more than make up their points. When they remember to martyr themselves anyway. How I fail to wound with 5 hits is beyond me 

[Ratarsed]

There are very few units in the game that can withstand 2 first rounds of combat with a unit of flagellants.

Hmm, I don't think I agree with that. All those Elves, Chaos and Skaven here would wipe them out before they strike, and several Bret or Vampire units would take one on the chin and shrug. That's somewhat of a problem when assaulting buildings, too, since their numbers shrink rather fast.

Don't forget core units need to start in the building. Elves are stuck with spears or archers so even wit ASF 10 str3 attacks should still lose to the flagellents (although I think 14 too small) you want 20+ to take the casualties from martyr and enemy wounds. Skaven will do significantly worse and do undead and bretonnians have a core unit that could shrug off their assault as you claim? Chaos are masters of this scenario. They have access to core units vastly superior to any other army.
Probles will arrise if the likes of Swordmasters get into the tower however, but that does not mean you do not have options. They are so expensive you usually are not seeing large units of them so in this case a bit of softening up before you assault may be the order of the day Iif it's not already too late)

Heres a little trick to try sometime so long as you know before hand you will be playing the scenario. Take Marcus Wolfhart and a unit of at least 10 huntsmen and if you get the tower deploy these 4" in front of it instead. Turn 1 the enemy has nothing to charge the tower and is too far way to walk in. Your turn 1 Marcus and his men walk in. Turn 2 enemy assaults tower, markus sends his 10 men into the fight. No matter how many attacks the enemy has marcus will not be killed. He holds his steadfast roll and the enemy must retreat from the tower. Your turn 2 markus leaves and your unit of 50 Flagellants walks in!

Edit: Ooops I seem to have my threads mixed up. I thought I was posting in the watch tower thread!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Very true, not everyone's core is good at holding out. Skaven even lose their SiN bonus in a building, so that's pretty nifty. The problem with watchtower is that everyone can pull out his small core garrison and enter the tower with something tougher. White Lions I see fielded in units of 30, Plague Monks I believe are T4, 3A and so on. Brets are a bit boned of course.

Still, that only serves to demonstrate what we all know: It depends, and sometimes the odds are against us.  The question is really how to prevent something nasty entering the tower and how to attack the right units. Or how to convince your opponent to play another scenario...

I really like your idea with Marcus. It's a good reason to use him and Flagellants and to show those nerds how to win with underrated units! As an aside, I too did not know until yesterday that the scenario is chosen before you make a list. That's huge.

[Ratarsed]

Can you provide a page reference to that? I had a quick look myself last night and it seems to me it's army list then scenario. At least by the lay out of the book. Didn't delve too deeply however.