Topic: 40K vs WHFB

[mr chumley warner]

Guys, i apologise in advance, its way off topic, but I used to play 40K when I was 12 , 1991/2 etc...

In those days you brought a landspeeder, 1 dreadnaught and maybe a Rhino to battle with your Space Marines,

Now it seems to be this huge vehicle fest from what I see glimpses of,

Flying things and Tanks,

It seems like they made 40K what Epic once was?

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Give me Warhammer Fantasy any day, sword and steel , blood and guts, treachery , booty and the promise of gold,

[Eighty]

straight up, i LOVE lots of the lore for 40k, like it or not (im preparing for the dislike  ) space marines are pretty bad ass.

having said that, i detest the idea of having 7 space marine codex's available for play. that aspect of the universe and the fact the actual game itself doesnt seem to be anywhere near as tactical as fantasy isnt cool at all.

Since everyones playing space marines and I personally dont like the rules, i dont play 40k.

The new BRB coming out might change that, and big flying things are always cool (see, griffons and dragons for reference). as it stands, i have a few 40k friends i am trying to convert to fantasy.. wish me luck   

[Delthos]

Who knows what it will be like in a few weeks. My friend who owns a game store said the release date for the new 40K is June 24th, that's a Sunday, so maybe that is the day they can place orders for it. In any case maybe the rules will change to de-emphasive vehicles. I can't imagine it will very much. I must say, I did use a lot of vehicles in all the armies I played with I last played a game in 4th edition. I regularly fielded two Wave Serpeants, a Falcon, and a Vyper in my Eldar army. In my IG army it was more.

While I prefer Fantasy to 40K these days, I'm still a 40K fan. Space Marines suck though!  They don't really, but I at least hate them...

[borgar]

I like the setting of 40k very much, heck i even started GMing dark heresy.
Its been forever since i played 40k, but i've always found the rules too simple in comparison to FB.

Points that bug me.
*rigid armor, not reduced by strength. all or nothing.
*no range penalty for shooting seems silly to me.
*no flanking, everyone has 360 LoS, making manuvering only about shooting and charging(after shooting for some reason)
*iirc assaulting grants +1A, wut?

sure the flanking thing would be difficult to fix without changing the whole squad setup, but its always bugged me.

don't get me wrong, all in all i love both. i FB is just a what i'm focusing on for the foreseeable future.

[Darthkenjamin]

I have a friend with about 3k of lizardmen who no longer likes fantasy because he says it doesn't have the tactics of 40k, warmachine or hordes so I can't get him to fight me any more even though he's fine with watching. That didn't start till 8th tho, he just cant get over that his 20 spear sauruses cant break a horde in one turn. I focus on fantasy but play some space wolves when everyone else is wanting a gunfight instead of steel vs warpstone/dinosaurs. Nothing against space marines...except actual ultramarines, hate all of them thats due to lore tho.

[Derek Contyre]

First 40k army was chaos space marines in 4th ed i think it was, then i switched to tau during 5th and enjoyed playing them right up until they began bringing out the new super cheese armies like daemonhunters and then all the space marine variants that seem to get everything that every other army gets (dark eldar get cool new fast moving stuff to keep up with their fluff? Oh no space marines have to have that too...)

Not to mention every tournament i go to has people power playing their lists to the max.
That isn't the idea of a fun time for me.

So 40k took the boot to the face and it has left me heaps of spare time to ACTUALLY PAINT MY EMPIRE ARMY! And let me tell you, its a great feeling only playing fantasy.

Don't like the rules of 40k. Background is epic though and the support it gets from gw in reference to its expansions is excellent

[PhillyT]

It is far more tactically sophisticated than most people realize.  There really is no difference in difficulty between the two systems at this point. 

40k is a smoother game with more options as a whole in terms of unit types and play styles.  Variety is incomparable once you add all of the options.

Add that the vast majority of sales come from 40k and it is obvious that fantasy is the lesser option to the brass at GW.

[rufus sparkfire]

I like vehicles! I have eight or nine, if you don't count dreadnoughts.

I can't decide if I actually like playing 40K or not though. I'm 50/50 on it so far. Maybe the new rules will change that.

[Brad]

I don't know that one can really compare WFB and 40K.  Superficially they may look similar, but really at their core they are two very different games.

[PhillyT]

I can't decide if I actually like playing 40K or not though. I'm 50/50 on it so far. Maybe the new rules will change that.

Something about this statement makes me laugh so bad.

[Derek Contyre]

It is far more tactically sophisticated than most people realize.

And yet still not as tactical as fantasy in 8th ed.
40k can be a tactical game, unless your opponent puts daemonhunters on the field. . . especially that paladin army. 

[PhillyT]

Fantasy isn't nearly as tough as people think.

[Derek Contyre]

Fantasy isn't nearly as tough as people think.

Not if you play empire 

But no its not, it just takes a different set of tactics to play successfully.

[PhillyT]

Exactly. Too often people act like 40k is for kids. It is a fantastically smooth system.

[Syn Ace]

40K was my introduction to GW games way back in the Rogue Trader days (sticking jump jets on your dreadnought - those were the days. In fact, I miss the old Chucks, Eddys, and Feribunduses) . I've got a couple of armies (Space Wolves and Eldar - sold the rest) and I've got so many vehicles I have a whole dresser that I store them in.  But I got kind of fed up with some of the broken armies and shelved everything -- I'll take a gander at the new rule set and then decide if I want back in. Right, now, I much prefer 8th edition.

I can't believe a Land Raider now costs $75 (and I heard it's going up again). I remember when I started you could buy a box that came with 2  old school Land Raiders and 3 Rhinos for a fraction of that price.

[patsy02]

It is far more tactically sophisticated than most people realize.  There really is no difference in difficulty between the two systems at this point. 

40k is a smoother game with more options as a whole in terms of unit types and play styles.  Variety is incomparable once you add all of the options.

Yep. And because of this variety, balance is easier to achieve.

[Raulmichile]

40K may be a smoother system, but it allows unit spam so easilly that ruins the game.  I love 40K and its background is simply gorgeous, but now I prefer Fantasy over it just because I got bored of spam armies and vehicle fever. I want troops back!

[Lord Solar Plexus]

I've been playing 40k on and off since 2nd edition but except for a single game last year at the local GW, I haven't played in ages. The background is utter crap. The models still look nice but everyone I know has moved on, either to Fantasy or Warmachine., and I've sold most of my IG.

[Shadowlord]

Fantasy isn't nearly as tough as people think.

I agree, Fantasy is hands down a Beer & Pretzel game and why I love it.

I would love 40K as well had I had the stomach to build/assemble and paint Vehicles - I do not.

[The Peacemaker]

I got out of fantasy because of the vehicle spam and crazy codex's in 5th edition. BRB 5th edition is ok but the codex's are not.
4th edition had some vehicle spam but they could always be destroyed on a lucky glancing hit, and anti-tank weapons for infantry were cheap.

I like the fluff of both worlds. I got into fantasy because I heard 8th was a better rules system then the previous editions. Been having fun ever since.
At first I was not a fan of the ranks system simply from a modeling perspective. If you try to put a model in a cool pose then he doesn't rank up. But then I trolled the internet and found out about unit fillers!!! I think thats when fantasy really became my prefered game.

40k you can make a cool looking model but you can't make a diorama of a bunch of models and still use it. Then you also run into line of sight problems.
People complain about the true line of sight in fantasy, but those people have not played 40k where Line of Sight actually matters!

[MrAbyssal]

I started with 40K and have always enjoyed it but rarely play it as most people I know prefer fantasy. The only real problem is the preponderance of Space Marines in all their various guises. Admittedly I play them as well but when half of the Codices available are for various forms of Space Marine army it's a little dull. I do very much enjoy the race variety of WFB.

[Albrecht Hexenjaeger]

In response to the news of the fliers release on another site, I said this-

"40K has become constant escalation and overkill. You may as well just show up to a 40K game with no models, look your opponent dead in the eye and say 'I win.' They’ll more than likely say something along the lines of 'What?' or 'Huh?'. That’s when you inform him your fleet just planet bombed the rock you were going to fight over from orbit. At the tournament level, this is when you immediately walk over to where the first place trophy is, grab it, and walk out."

I played Rogue Trader back in 1991. I really love the background and models. Then along came Forge World. Then the rules became dumbed down to the point where my $65 model can get junked with one meltabomb, killing everyone inside. Then City Fight. Then More Forge World. Then Apocalypse. So, I cashed out two editions ago. Literally sold everything 40K and sunk the dough into Fantasy (OK...and rent. And booze. And broads.) Maybe I'm just old school, but if you want Titans, cannon with unlimited range, and aircraft, play Epic 40,000. The game just got too out of control.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

If I want huge cannon and aircraft, I start the computer and pull out Hearts of Iron.

We used to have great variety. 1 UM, 1 SW, IG, Tau, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Daemons and Sisters IIRC. That really never was a problem. It still surprises me how fast and how silently it comletely dried out here. One month we were playing, the next thing you know is everyone has a Warmachine force and no-one even talks about 40k anymore. It was a bit absurd.
 

4th edition had some vehicle spam but they could always be destroyed on a lucky glancing hit, and anti-tank weapons for infantry were cheap.

AT was still available in plentyful numbers. Okay, I'm mainly talking about IG which could easily have a dozen meltas, autocannon and multilasers but SW were not far behind. In close combat, every fething boltpistol guy could hurt a Chimera, and often you didn't really need to destroy something. Keep vehicles from moving or shooting, depending on their role, and you were a step ahead.

[The Peacemaker]

4th edition had some vehicle spam but they could always be destroyed on a lucky glancing hit, and anti-tank weapons for infantry were cheap.

AT was still available in plentyful numbers. Okay, I'm mainly talking about IG which could easily have a dozen meltas, autocannon and multilasers but SW were not far behind. In close combat, every fething boltpistol guy could hurt a Chimera, and often you didn't really need to destroy something. Keep vehicles from moving or shooting, depending on their role, and you were a step ahead.

In 4th editions AT was plentiful. 5th editions codex's they jacked up the points for AT weapons and also restricted the amount you could take in your armies. 4th edition tanks were easily destroyed but that was offset because they could move and shoot - thus dishing out their points worth before they blew up. 5th edition the tanks just sit there, take hits and fire back. I was playing games where literally a few dice were rolled each turn and virtually nothing was happening.
lol, its like the magic phase with 8th edition fantasy with the 7th edition codex's. Each player has enough options to shut down the magic phase. Ever have magic phases where you spend alot of time and thought on spells, roll the dice, everything is countered and its like you could have just skipped the magic phase? With 8th edition army books its a bit better, you can get at least 1 spell of about 85% of the time.

Anyway, what else were we talking about.... oh yeah, I almost got into epic simply for the massive battles you could have but the models were too small. Didn't feel like paying absurd amounts of $ for models with zero detail. The addition of big awesome flying models is cool for 40k but they really should have left it for bigger games. They should have made appocalypse a really thought out rules system for big battles. Basically Epic but with 40k models.

It would be nice if 5th edition 40k brought the game back to infantry skirmish. Those games are way more fun.

[Grutch]

Shit!  I bought the boxed 40K set for my spoiled kids.  (They played a demo game and painted marines at the store).  What is proposed for the new edition boxed set?