Author Topic: Averland. Civil war or political solution? (Read 1145 times)

Alarick · « **on:** August 16, 2012, 02:21:25 PM »

Hi!
Since the death of the Elector Count Marius Leitdorf, GW still has not designated successor. Do you think will opt for a campaign of civil war in Averland? o Is the emperor selected a family to take the place of elector count, according to the current background?
What do you think might happen?
I have my army of Averland ready to support the bastard son of Marius. Who was recognized by his uncle, and is supported by his grandfather, the warden of the city of Grenzstadt.

VonOttenheim · « **Reply #1 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:31:46 PM »

Erich Leitdorf is alive and well.....his bid for the power in Averland needs your support.....

Calisson · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2012, 03:19:20 PM »

Quote from: Alarick on August 16, 2012, 02:21:25 PM

I have my army of Averland ready to support the bastard son of Marius. Who was recognized by his uncle, and is supported by his grandfather, the warden of the city of Grenzstadt.

Curse that bastard and his followers.

Quote from: VonOttenheim on August 16, 2012, 02:31:46 PM

Erich Leitdorf is alive and well.....his bid for the power in Averland needs your support.....

Any claim he would raise would have no legitimacy.

My army is devouted to Olive Leitdorf, who, as Marius brother, happens to be the only legitimate heir.

Of course, he will accept allegiance. But if not, let the powder speak.

Uryens de Crux · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2012, 03:28:14 PM »

Half the Averland nobility is of Solland and Sudenland descent anyway

the Tilean · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2012, 03:37:28 PM »

Marius' brother is a templar knight of sigmar im fairly sure so it really depends on their vows to join the order, if they can hold lands and titles then sure he would be count, if not there could be a short civil war followed by the emperor breaking it up and appointing a new count. Although to be fair the Leitdorf's were only just appointed the elector count, so that would be the what the shortest reign as count ever?

wissenlander · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2012, 05:46:49 PM »

Quote from: Uryens de Crux on August 16, 2012, 03:28:14 PM

Half the Averland nobility is of Solland and Sudenland descent anyway

The Solland Effort 2.0.

Uryens de Crux · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2012, 07:25:55 PM »

Solland WILL rise again

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2012, 08:19:20 PM »

Only to be crushed again.

I would say lets wait and see enough Orcs and Undead to fight in the meantime.

Cedrikvonkreig · « **Reply #8 on:** August 19, 2012, 04:44:41 AM »

... I thought we sent Ludwig Swartchzhelm to try and fix that...

if anyone should judge who is the best candidate for the seat of Averland. Let it be the Emperor's Champion!

Gorgash Redfang · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2012, 03:18:41 AM »

Quote from: Alarick on August 16, 2012, 02:21:25 PM

Hi!
Since the death of the Elector Count Marius Leitdorf, GW still has not designated successor. Do you think will opt for a campaign of civil war in Averland? o Is the emperor selected a family to take the place of elector count, according to the current background?
What do you think might happen?
I have my army of Averland ready to support the bastard son of Marius. Who was recognized by his uncle, and is supported by his grandfather, the warden of the city of Grenzstadt.

Yes they did kill him....

ONLY to bring him back again with a NEW finecast model

Therefore is he dead OR not?

Quickbeam · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2012, 03:29:14 AM »

Read The sword of Justice and the sword of vengeance! It will all make sense!!
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/swords-of-the-emperor.html
Here they are in an omnibus!!

****Spoilers****
Marius is indeed dead.
His first son dies in the storm of chaos.
it falls to his second son Rufus to take over the throne but the Apultraums throw up their own claimant and Ludwig is supposed to decide.
He turns out popular and wins but also turns out to worship chaos and almost completely throws Averland into madness.
All of them die except Ludwig and Helborg. There is no elector but everyone is fine and happy with that. The end. BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!
Rufus raped a girl before the struggle and she gives birth at the end of the book.
The baby boy's name is Siggurd Leitdorf, son of Rufus, son of Marius!
***** end Spoilers*****

Alarick · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2012, 02:27:29 PM »

Hola!
So, I have a name for my candidate...

Thanks, I will remain on hold for that book

Quickbeam · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2012, 02:38:01 AM »

Quote from: Alarick on August 22, 2012, 02:27:29 PM

Hola!
So, I have a name for my candidate...
Thanks, I will remain on hold for that book

No problem

They are quite good books.
Oh yeah and just remember The Gadsdens (my generals family) and I got dibs on the foothills southeast of Merfeld

MrAbyssal · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2012, 05:38:16 AM »

I actually thought they were generally pretty poor story lines (Sword of Justice/Vengeance). Averheim turned into a Demon city? Yeah, I don't think so. Hopefully it's all stuff that forever stays out of canon. I thought it sounded good, thinking "Yay! We'll have an Elector Count again! Hopefully he's as cool as Marius) and then finding out that other than turning Averheim into a Demon city they kept the status quo.

I would like some more official canon regarding the disputed Elector Count position, like those who are vying for the title, or that there are many claimants or even just GW saying that it's a great idea to base civil wars around and stuff like that. I don't think it even rated a mention in the Civil Wars articles they did recently in WD... Either that or they decide who the new Elector Count is and also find Helmut Feuerbach again just for fun. I think it's a little silly how they have after effects of Storm of Chaos still (like Feuerbach missing) but ignore the fact it ever even happened.

/rant

Uryens de Crux · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2012, 03:46:41 PM »

Aren't we just in a pre SoC timeline at the moment?

S.O.F · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2012, 07:21:32 PM »

Quote from: Uryens de Crux on August 23, 2012, 03:46:41 PM

Aren't we just in a pre SoC timeline at the moment?

Yes but Feuerbach is still listed as missing since GW either missed it or was to lazy to fix it. Quite honestly GW doesn't really care about it's world much other than how they can write up how 'awesome' something is to convince 14 year old to buy it.

Alexious · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2012, 05:36:47 PM »

With SOC in the mix it is indeed difficult to see what the situation truly is...

However several key facts remain.

Solland has been a dead issue for over twenty years of real time now... and I am sure your well aware of why... and the written stuff about it and the authors of the period... which would have had to have been about 89 or 90? Cannot recall.

As for Averland...

Several issues now are waiting to be resolved.

1). Marius is dead... but we have no heir recognised heir designate.
2). We never have seen a succession apart from what we think and apply to the Empire based off our own German or British style of Monarchy. But if you assume that Marius is dead... and both sons are.... who knows what is meant to happen? There are multiple references of different Graf's from Stirland holding the Elector Count position from different families over a period of several hundred years... it could be entirely possible that another family will rise and take it.... perhaps?
3). There is nothing known about the role of the Imperial as opposed to State Governments in the WH world and where who gets to take the onus on making an Elector Count... the novels do infer that the Imperial designate can arbitrate or decide when things are murky or unclear... but whether KF or his representative have the power to appoint is probably not likely... otherwise the current Emperor would stack the deck... of Electors for those who would vote for his family line etc over time.
4). The actual role of the Elector is probably quite different per province or may not hold anything apart from the ability to elect. You have two Arch Lectors and a Grand Theog... who can elect... but they have other duties as well. The actual rulership of the province may fall to a council or more likely castellan or other noble until there is need for an Elector.... (As in when the current Emperor passes away). There just may be no political need for an Elector at this time. Marius however it is noted did command the armies of Averland directly... so if that role and whom those forces report too is not and does not seem to get addressed at all.

Interesting topic though!

Quickbeam · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2012, 11:03:35 PM »

Quote from: MrAbyssal on August 23, 2012, 05:38:16 AM

I actually thought they were generally pretty poor story lines (Sword of Justice/Vengeance). Averheim turned into a Demon city? Yeah, I don't think so. Hopefully it's all stuff that forever stays out of canon. I thought it sounded good, thinking "Yay! We'll have an Elector Count again! Hopefully he's as cool as Marius) and then finding out that other than turning Averheim into a Demon city they kept the status quo.

I agree it was all pretty stupid but I kinda liked it anyway and It straightened out a lot of stuff that people were asking. Now because it's black library I say using it as cannon is a no. Maybe if they just put most of it in and cut out Grosslich and the hoe that was controlling everything turning it into a daemon city it may actually work.

MrAbyssal · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2012, 04:43:05 AM »

Quote from: Quickbeam on August 25, 2012, 11:03:35 PM

Quote from: MrAbyssal on August 23, 2012, 05:38:16 AM
I actually thought they were generally pretty poor story lines (Sword of Justice/Vengeance). Averheim turned into a Demon city? Yeah, I don't think so. Hopefully it's all stuff that forever stays out of canon. I thought it sounded good, thinking "Yay! We'll have an Elector Count again! Hopefully he's as cool as Marius) and then finding out that other than turning Averheim into a Demon city they kept the status quo.

I agree it was all pretty stupid but I kinda liked it anyway and It straightened out a lot of stuff that people were asking. Now because it's black library I say using it as cannon is a no. Maybe if they just put most of it in and cut out Grosslich and the hoe that was controlling everything turning it into a daemon city it may actually work.

To be fair, Sword of Justice wasn't actually that bad. Sword of Vengeance was utter rubbish. You could ignore Sword of Vengeance and just use the cop-out "But then it all got better" and it would be infinitely better than Sword of Vengeance.

wissenlander · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:10:14 PM »

I think Sigmar's Heirs gives a little info on how the different provinces are ruled. I can't remember what it says about Averland. Not that it will provide a great amount of detail. Generally, it seems, that the Electorships are hereditary, or maybe this is me supposing. Off the top of my head I can name at least Hochland that this is the case (based on the 6th edition fluff piece about Konrad, son of Aldebrand being groomed for the throne). I think the only time Karl Franz would really step in is when something threatens to destabilize a province(s).

Gorgash Redfang · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2012, 01:57:38 AM »

Quote from: wissenlander on August 28, 2012, 06:10:14 PM

I think the only time Karl Franz would really step in is when something threatens to destabilize a province(s).

And depending on the currant situation in regard to whether they are at war with Chaos etc, etc or not sometimes they don`t even bother, as in around the time of the three emperors(?)or other political strife

Nothing worse that collecting something for many years only to have it/them killed off by someone writing a storyline to fulfill some future need?!?

Uryens de Crux · « **Reply #21 on:** August 29, 2012, 12:04:19 PM »

Indeed

Some of us started our Empire Army well over 20 years ago when Solland was still being talked about :p
Don't see why I should change my fluff because of crap GW writing and in-house politics.

MrAbyssal · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2012, 11:41:58 PM »

Quote from: Uryens de Crux on August 29, 2012, 12:04:19 PM

Indeed

Some of us started our Empire Army well over 20 years ago when Solland was still being talked about :p
Don't see why I should change my fluff because of crap GW writing and in-house politics.

Nothing saying your army has to be current timeline either anyway. It all works one way or another.

Gorgash Redfang · « **Reply #23 on:** August 30, 2012, 04:23:41 AM »

Quote from: MrAbyssal on August 29, 2012, 11:41:58 PM

Nothing saying your army has to be current timeline either anyway. It all works one way or another.

Too true too, we can have our armies in any time in the Empires History. GW are NOT the only ones that can "adjust" the fluff/timeline to suit the story or our theme/army

Calisson · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2012, 10:24:21 AM »

AB p.15 & p.17, p.57, BRB p.180: Marius Leitdorf has been killed. P.17 tells that it happened in 2520.
BRB p.177: we are in 2522.
AB p.13: Averland throne is confirmed to be vacant since the death of Marius Leitdorf.
Averland, one of the Empire's richest part, and a vital bulwark against the Orcs' invasions, has been left without Count for two years now.
Note: previous army book versions and first supplementary rule to play Marius Leitdorf were no different.

Quote from: MrAbyssal on August 29, 2012, 11:41:58 PM

Nothing saying your army has to be current timeline either anyway.

Of course!
Despite being already dead at the time, he used to have his own model in the previous edition, supported by supplementary rules.
Now, he is still dead, but there is a new model and his rules are part of the army book. His death is even recalled in his own fluff.

News:

Author Topic: Averland. Civil war or political solution? (Read 1145 times)