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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« on: September 08, 2012, 10:00:13 PM »
Tactical Decision Game 2.0:  The Beginning

-------------------------------------

Tactical Decision Games are a fun way to think through difficult situations that Empire Generals face.  It is all about making tough decisions in tight spots… so the next time you face similar situations-  you are ready for them!  Check out Tactical Decision Game 1:  Empire versus the Ogrebus if you haven’t seen it yet to get an idea of what a TDG is all out.  You are coming in at ground zero on this one-  so join us and participate! 

-------------------------------------


Creating the List:

Each TDG, I will have a few new twists so they don’t get boring and predictable.  In this one, we are starting way before the deployment phase-  where you are drinking your ale in Bugman’s Brewery trying to decide if you should try out a heavy cavalry force when you play in an upcoming 2500 point no comp tournament. 

You don’t know who your first opponent is going to be…but you think it will most likely be Vampire Counts, Dark Elves or Daemons.  You do know the first round of the tourney is a special scenario that has an Arcane Ruin and lots of hilly and forest terrain.


Tactical Decisions for 2.0:

What kind of cavalry list can you create that can handle the nastiest army lists the bad guys can throw at you?

Here is how it is going to work.  I will take up to a max of 16 list submissions.  Number each list as it is posted-  in other words if you are posting after List #6, label yours as List #7.  Once we have at least 10 lists and enough time has gone by to give people time to post, I will close it out for voting.  (Therefore-  looking for 10-16 lists)

After I close the lists, voting will be pretty straightforward-   if you want to vote, you will rate each list from your favorite (#1) to your least favorite (#16).  Once I close out the voting, I will total up the values each list received.  The two lists with the least amounts of points will be the winners (so a list consistently rated as number 1 will receive a small amount of points and be a winner).

Now comes the fun part-  each of these two final lists are going to have their own team against the upcoming opponent.  You can join either team/list you want (I may put a cap or limit the team size if teams are unbalanced for some reason).  Once the teams are set in the beginning I will freeze them so they will be the “team members” for the rest of the TDG.  Understand though-  once you join a team you can only vote in that team’s decisions.  Your team is also depending on your input, so don’t join if you aren’t going to log in play along!   

However, if you don’t want to commit to just one team or you will be on infrequently-  you can be a floater and vote in both.  New forum members joining the TDG will also be able to vote.  The only downside to being a floater is that your decision votes will be worth half the weight of a list’s team member.

Having two teams will double the crazy decisions we have to make, will give us an opportunity to compare the merits/weaknesses of two different lists, and will promote a healthy competition among forum members because they will want their team to do the best!  To add icing to the cake-  team members on the team that does the best will get to pick the next opponent for the next TDG! 


List Considerations:

--There are no comp restrictions in this tournament.

--Please take the time to make sure your list submissions are legal.

--To make sure it is cav heavy-  at least 65% of your points need to be mounted or on a chariot base.

--Make your list unique.  If what you have in mind is similar to what someone else has posted, don’t create a new list (and just vote high for theirs when the time comes!)

--Tell us briefly why your list kicks ass (or tricks/combos you would use) so we know why we should vote for it.

--Try to follow this format so it is easier to compare lists:

-----------------------------------------------------
Example List #0

General:  TGM (Runefang, Charmed Shield, Luckstone, Potion of Speed) in the ICK
BSB:  Captain in Vanilla Knights
Magic:  Lvl 4 Heavens Wizard (Dispel Scroll, Talis of Pres) in Vanilla Knights

Warrior Priest (Mounted, Enchanted Shield, OTs) next to TGM in ICK

13 ICK Knights (FC, Lances, Ranger Banner)

2x 5 Vanilla Knights (Std, Mus)

2x4 Demigryphs (FC, Lances, 1 with Steel Standard, 1 with Banner of Swiftness)

2x Steam Tanks

Exactly 2500 pts.

I think this list will kick ass because….blah, blah, blah.

--------------------------------

***Note:  during this period of “list posting-“  feel free to comment on a particular list or on all the lists in general…but do not say what you would change in a list (s).  We are all opinioned and this thread will be full of “I like the Sword of Might over the Sword of Battle” type discussions and will clog it up.  Don’t worry-  we will take the time to tweak the two finalists before we start the deployment phase.

 :::cheers:::
HHG
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 02:06:43 AM by Holy Hand Grenade »
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Phlash

  • Posts: 51
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 10:42:02 PM »
Great initiative

Is the point limit fixed on 2500, or is this just an example?

Regards
I believe that bringing a sub-par list to the table is the worse insult that I can make to my opponent. And let's face it, ANY Empire list that isn't a gunline of sorts is sub-par.
Quoted for unTruth

Offline Grazhnakk

  • Posts: 54
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 11:00:14 PM »
List #1:

TGM, Runefang, Shield, ToTS - 259
Wizard lvl 4 (Beasts), mounted, earthing rod - 242

Warrior Priest, heavy armor, shield, barded horse 88
Captain, BSB, lance, shield, FP, Barded horse, War Banner 162

10 ICK, full command, steel standard - 315

20 knights, FC, great weapons - 439

10 Reiksguard - 270

5 pistoliers X 2 - 180

5 outriders - 105

Stank - 250

Total: 2500


Plan: GS knights get the BSB, and are there to receive charges and grind big blocks of stuff.

TGM + WP go in the ICK and are there to be a big, big hammer

Reiksguard are, well, reiksguard. :)

Wizard in outriders, plan is to buff everyone he can. Outriders are both a bunker and to clear chaff. If we need the wizard in closer action, a unit of outriders are fast enough to do a drive-by to pick him up.

This is NOT an optimal list. It's not supposed to be - it's meant to be a fun mounted list with just enough muscle that you can enjoy a game even against ridiculous deathstar armies.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 11:12:45 PM »
Great initiative

Is the point limit fixed on 2500, or is this just an example?

Regards

Oops.  Always forget something-  yes, it is a 2500 tourney! 
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Friar Metick

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2012, 01:07:49 AM »
Hey HHG,

Below is my cav list, total points of army is 2498, and it is 70% cavalry. A lot of whats in the list is from my tournament list I've been playing for a while. I changed my tournament list somewhat here because you have no comp and a higher point game. I put Karl Franz in where I usually take a TGM. I liked the idea of his 18" leadership bubble and he isn't that much more than a kitted out TGM. Of course Ghal Maraz is awesome when they miss that one ward save and can possibly take 3 wounds for its point cost.

I did not enter points for each character/unit, I was worried that is a big no no on a post. So if it's okay to do it I can go back and point it out, let me know if you want me to do that.

Will we be exchanging lists with our opponent before we deploy? If we exchange lists, will we (our two selected/modified lists) and the opponent have to submit them to you before exchanging them so you know they have not been altered when deploying? Just curious how you want to handle it.

List #2

Unit 1:

Karl Franz, The Emperor, (General; Hold the Line; Full Plate Armor; Immune to Psychology), Warhorse, Ghal Maraz, Silver Seal

Warrior Priest, (Battle Prayers; Barding; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield), Warhorse, Warrior Bane, Dragonhelm, Crown of Command

10 - Knightly Orders, (Musician; Standard Bearer; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armor)
1 - Preceptor (Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armor)
11 Warhorses


Unit 2:

Captain of the Empire (Battle Standard Bearer), (Hold the Line; Barding; Hand Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Shield), Warhorse, The White Cloak of Ulric

Warrior Priest, (Battle Prayers; Barding; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour), Warhorse, Enchanted Shield

12 - Knights of the Inner Circle, (Musician; Standard Bearer; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armor)
1 - Preceptor (Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armor), Banner of Eternal Flame
13 - Warhorses


Unit 3:

3 - Inner Circle Knights, (Musician; Standard Bearer; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armor), Steel Standard
3 - Demigryphs (Armour Piercing; Causes Fear; Stomp)


Unit 4:

Helblaster Volley Gun, (Volley Gun), 3 Crew (Hand Weapon)


Unit 5:

24 - Greatswords, (Always Strikes Last; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great
Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Stubborn), Gleaming Pennant Std.
1 - Count's Champion (Always Strikes Last; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armor)

Warrior Priest, (Always Strikes Last; Battle Prayers; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour)
Helm of the Skavenslayer

Battle Wizard Lord, (Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon), Dispel Scroll, The Lore of Light


Unit 6

Luminark of Hysh, (Chariot; Large Target; Swiftstride), 2 Acolytes (Hand Weapon), 2 Warhorses

Six units, seven drops.

Plenty of flaming attacks to deal with hydras, regenerating undead, lore of light works well with an aggressive empire list and has added power against daemons too. DGK with steel stand surprise a lot of chaff with their speed and can turn the corner quick to cause havoc from the flanks, also I've defeated hydras with these guys without having flaming attks. Luminark gives us the 6++ bubble, an extra dd (helps out against the stabby dagger delves), and the laser scares the hell out of hydras and regenerating troops with its flaming- rank penetrating S8 D3 wounds missle on a cast roll of 4. With 3 Priests and the level 4 we get four channel rolls per magic phase. By taking a lot of knights we have the speed to get across the board quickly when needed or wanted. The GS's help out the knights if they get bogged down with a tar pit unit, they can hit the flank and swing things in our favor, disrupt ranks.
Blessed be those who game.

Friar Metick

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 02:02:47 AM »
I did not enter points for each character/unit, I was worried that is a big no no on a post. So if it's okay to do it I can go back and point it out, let me know if you want me to do that.

Great questions-

No need to list out the points.  We can get to that level of granularity on only the final two lists.

Will we be exchanging lists with our opponent before we deploy? If we exchange lists, will we (our two selected/modified lists) and the opponent have to submit them to you before exchanging them so you know they have not been altered when deploying? Just curious how you want to handle it.

The two "finalists" will be posted/finalized on the thread so they will be public knowledge already...but before the deployment phase starts I will publicize what the battlefield terrain looks like, the rules for the special scenario, and our opponent's full list. 

I will also, for your viewing enjoyment, take the time to analyze the enemy's list (like I did with Bruiser's) so even if you have never played against that type of army before you are armed with knowledge to start making battlefield decisions.   :icon_cool:
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Noght

  • Posts: 3123
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 02:25:19 AM »
Just a link.  I'll do a new book list...

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=37110.0

I'll post it tomorrow.


"...the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance which fancies it knows everything..."  Camus.

Offline Friar Metick

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 02:41:53 AM »
I did not enter points for each character/unit, I was worried that is a big no no on a post. So if it's okay to do it I can go back and point it out, let me know if you want me to do that.

Great questions-

No need to list out the points.  We can get to that level of granularity on only the final two lists.

Will we be exchanging lists with our opponent before we deploy? If we exchange lists, will we (our two selected/modified lists) and the opponent have to submit them to you before exchanging them so you know they have not been altered when deploying? Just curious how you want to handle it.

The two "finalists" will be posted/finalized on the thread so they will be public knowledge already...but before the deployment phase starts I will publicize what the battlefield terrain looks like, the rules for the special scenario, and our opponent's full list. 

I will also, for your viewing enjoyment, take the time to analyze the enemy's list (like I did with Bruiser's) so even if you have never played against that type of army before you are armed with knowledge to start making battlefield decisions.   :icon_cool:

Cool, sounds good, thank you much.  :eusa_clap:  :::cheers::: and later after a few beers  :mellow:  :icon_lol:
Blessed be those who game.

Friar Metick

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 03:28:26 AM »
Just a link.  I'll do a new book list...

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=37110.0

I'll post it tomorrow.

Excellent.  I will make sure you have a spot.  When you post, label yours the next # in the series at that time.

I have a spot saved for Fandir too-  if he wants to submit the list he posted at the end of 1.6.
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Windelov

  • Posts: 472
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2012, 05:03:57 PM »
#3

My idea of a strong cavalry list (at 2487 points, so 13 points for minor adjustments):

11 IC  Knights, full command, banner of discipline: 320
General: Arch Lector, barded warhorse, heavy armour, shield, talisman of preservation, dragon helm, warrior bane: 188

17 GW Knigths, full command: 404
Luthor Huss: 155

4 Demigryphens, full command, flamming banner: 272

6 Reiksguard Knights: 162

11 Knights, full command: 272
Captain bsb, Barded warhorse, charmed shield, biting blade, luckstone: 109

10 Archers:70
2 x 5 archer detachments: 70
Wizard Lord lvl 4, lore of light. with dispel scroll: 225

2 x great cannons: 240

Tactics.

This is a offensive list with 5 cavalry units, four in front and one for reserve. Support is given by a lvl 4 light wizard, 2 redirectors and 2 great cannons.

The IC knights, GW knights and Demi's will each be able to encounter strong opponents, and all have or able to get flamming attacks (vs hydra). The Reiksguard will be a tarpit/chaff clearer and should be able to break smaller units.

The vanilla knights with the BSB works as a reserve hammer 12" within major cav units, able to charge units slipping past the first four and defends the wizard and cannons.

Wizard is in the larger archer unit while 2 screens protects 'em and provides redirector support to the BSB unit.

2 Great Cannons target warmachine/cauldron and monsters and what ever comes in its way :biggriin:
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 05:07:42 PM by Windelov »

Offline SevenSins

  • Posts: 212
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 05:24:54 PM »
TGM, sh, runefang, other tricksters shard 259

Priest on barded steed, sh, ha, Ironcurse icon 90

BSB, barded steed, fpa, sh, lance, banner of swiftness 131

these are distributed among these two units (depending on opposition):

10 ICK FC, steel standard 275
7 Knights st/mus 179

2xCaptasus (one with potion of foolhardiness) 245

13 Archers     175
- 6 archers
- 6 archers

wizard lord L4 (life), dispel scroll 225 joins archers

2x4 Demigryphs mus/st one with flaming other with banner of discipline 504

2x Steam tank 500

2499 total

several units that are mobile and somewhat self sufficient, can make a M9 semi deathstar aswell
(pretty inexperienced general so mainly stuff I thought looked good  :icon_redface: )

Offline grifter

  • Posts: 283
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2012, 09:47:30 PM »
I´m more of an Infantry-man myself (TVI ftw!), but challenge gladly accepted!  :smile2:

Ok, here goes:

List #5

"The Charge of the rather Heavy Brigade":

Lords:
The Magic: Light Wizard (level 4, Warhorse, Dispel Scroll) in the Reiksguard

Heroes:
The Leadership (General): CoE (Lance, FPA, Shield, Pegasus, Biting Blade, Potion of Foolhardiness) in the ICK
The Further Leadership (BSB): CoE (BSB, Lance, FPA, Pegasus, Shrieking Blade, Charmed Shield) in the Knights
The Faith: Warrior Priest (HA, Warhorse, Barding, Enchanted Shield) in the Knights
The Faith-ier: Warrior Priest (HA, Shield, Warhorse, Barding, Dragonhelm) in the ICK

Core:
The Steel: 20 Knights (Lance + Shield; Preceptor; Musician; Standard Bearer)
The Stronger Steel: 18 ICK (Lance+Shield; IC Preceptor; Musician; Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline)

Special:
The Gunpowder: 5 Pistoliers
More Gunpowder: 5 Pistoliers
The Bunker: 5 Reiksguard

Rare:
The Big ´un: Steam Tank
The other Big ´un: Steam Tank

 2499 pts / 100% Cavalry/Chariot

The two big blocks of Knights are of course the main attractions of the list. One has the BSB, one the General (Ld9 with the BoD); each placed on the corner of their unit that´s closest to the other unit. Of course, both have the option to charge out of their respective unit on their Pegasi should a fitting opportunity present itself. They´re both 3W, 1+ save (BSB with a 2+ on the first wound should something snipe him) and carry cheap magic weapons for ethereal targets and a little extra edge in CC. Both units also sport WP´s for flaming attacks and all the other good stuff I don´t need to tell you gentlemen about. Against a lot of stuff both units should be steadfast (depending on how deep you place them), with 3d6 take lowest on Ld9 with the BSB re-roll, unless the Captains charge out or the units drift to far apart.

The Stanks act as mobile cannons to snipe big uglies and to hold stuff we don´t want to fight with the Knights.

The Reiksguard act as a bunker for the Wizard (Light for the nice buffs and the guaranteed chaff-removing magic missile and because we might be playing demons), and to reinforce the lines if need be; should be kept back at first though of course.

The Pistoliers are for warmachine/chaff-hunting, blocking charges and general annoyance.

Why you should vote for this list:
I´m sure there will be better lists posted, but this is an all-in cavalry list with tons of tactical options that should be a lot of fun to play, gets into the opponents face real fast, but, with no less then 68 1+ save wounds, it should be hard to take out as well.

Offline MrAbyssal

  • Posts: 1058
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 02:11:14 AM »
If I have time tonight I'll try and build a list. Lots of fun stuff that can be tried here.
There are three things each man judges another man by;

1. The size of his codpiece
2. The amount of skulls he carries
3. The length of his feather

Offline sammay23

  • Posts: 888
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 02:54:32 AM »
Here's the list I've been playing for the past eight months.

Luthor Huss (IC Knights)
BSB, Barding, Shield, Dawnstone (IC Knights)
WP Barding, HA, Enchanted Shield (Reiksguard)
Lvl 4, Barding, Dispel Scroll (IC Knights, row 2)
Engineer (hellblaster)
Engineer (hellblaster)
6 'nilla knights
6 'nilla knights
13 IC Knights, Full command, Standard of Discipline
3 DGs
3 DGs
9 Reiksguard, Full command
Hellblaster
Hellblaster
Steam Tank

I'd put this up against pretty much anything. Lore of Heavens on the lvl 4.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 02:57:11 AM by sammay23 »
Bring out the mop and broom sammay.  I want to see you clean this house.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10067
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 06:32:24 AM »
First of all I got away from the idea to make a War Altar Grandmaster list. as the Waraltar would mainly mean that I have to keep the list close together mitigating a huge advantage of a fast heavy cav list therefore I went back to a priest in two big units aproach. Here is what I came up with:

Ok the list - The Beast and the Saint

I will say some words to each unit but overall the funky part is that I have four elements that double as Hammers and as an anvil but check it out for yourself.

2 Lords: 491 Pts.   19.6%
3 Heroes: 449 Pts.   17.9%
4 Core Units: 625 Pts.   25.0%
2 Elite Units: 435 Pts.   17.4%
2 Rare Units: 500 Pts.   20.0%

***************  2 Lords  *************** 

Wizard Lord, Level 4 Upgrade
+  Dispell Scroll
+  Lore of the Beasts
- - - > 225 Points

Why the lore of beasts? On a lvl 4? Well because it is a heavy cav list. Wyssans means that the two main units are S5....in subsequent rounds so yes they are mounted greatswords that would hit on a S of 7 on the charge toughness 4 also helps to redue losses immensly, Oh the horses will also hit with S4 and hatred and don´t forget that you always can drop it on a stank to make it S7 T7. Also the character buff spells are amazing for this list, Grandmaster with +3 Attacks? Or if it really depends the wizard could try to get more characters into contact and grant them all +3 Attacks and +3 S, Anraheirs curse is another candy spell and helps to diminish the power of huge horde units the list might otherwise struggle again, also it grants -1 to hit in cc later in the game. So some nice spells, we should avoid curse of crows and kadons transformation the rest are all useful. Oh and on top of this +1 to cast on cav and chariots basically making our caster a lvl 5.

Grand Master, Shield, Lance
+  Runefang, The ohter Trickster's Shard
- - - > 266 Points

Nothing fancy here but not to be underestimated as he can go toe to toe with everything except a Vampire lord with blood fury...and well even with him should the Beast mage grant him +3 on Toughness, only drawback should we manage to grant his unit a 5+ wardsave they have to reroll them.

***************  3 Heroes  *************** 

Captain of the Empire
+  Lance, Full Plate Armour
+  Pegasus
+  Dawnstone, Charmed Shield
+ Battlestandard Bearer
- - - > 173 Points
Bringing us the rerolls exactly where we want them the charmed shield and hiding him should keep him alive for the 1-2 turns of our artillery (3 cannons) to destroy enemy warmachines and leave him the option of free mobility on the battlefield...oh and with 7 Attacks at S9!!! he also can kick some ass (you see what spell is key in my planning but even with wyssan he is very solid in dishing out some face slaps). Questin here for everyone....would the Pegasus also get +3 Attacks and +3 S???  :ph34r:

Luthor Huss, Prophet of Sigmar
- - - > 155 Points
Luthor ...is Luthor is Luthor, underpriced as hell he is one sexy bugger leading the Reiksguard to victory. Do I have to say it? +d3 S/T/A/Ws and on top of that +3 A/+S could make this guy to a god of battle truly Sigmar reborn with potential 8 Attacks at S10.  :ph34r: at Ws 8 that is. BAM!


Warrior Priest
+  Steed, Barding, HEavy Armour, Shield
+  Crown of Command, - - - > 120 Points

Hatred granter and making the IC unit of the Grandmaster stubborn his prayers might help the unit to let others feel the pain. Also him and Luthor make the Saint part of the Armies name.


***************  4 Core Units  *************** 

10 Archers
+ 5 Archers
+ 5 Archers
- - - > 140 Points

Bunker for the mage, chaff reducers and well in difficult terrain they are stubborn too so the largish unit can stick around for a while if there ever might be the need. Don´t forget that the archers in the last TDG saved our bacon.

9 Knights of the Order, Lances, Inner Circle, Musician, Champion
- - - > 245 Points

Warrior Priest and Grandmaster in here, one of the four hammers that is also stubborn on a ld of 9 even without any buffs the hatred and the high strength means that this unit should punch some holes in the enemy lines. Musician is in to allow for a redeploy and move away from threats should we be blocked by chaff in an important situation.

5 Knights of the Order, Lances, Champion
- - - > 120 Points

redirecters, chaff unters, artillery hunters the champion at +10 points for another S5 attack ont he charge is too good not to take

5 Knights of the Order, Lances, Champion
- - - > 120 Points

Same as their buddies.


***************  2 Elite Units  *************** 

10 Reiksguard, Musician, Standardbearer, Champion
+  Standard of Discipline
- - - > 315 Points

Lead by Luthor these guys also come at ld 9 even if they are operating far away from the General (not unlikely) resulting that you have to bring them down one by one their high armour and S4 means that they should be able to grind down infantry blocks in a couple of turns too. Luthor helps in killing enemy characters by some hammer to the face.

Great Cannon
- - - > 120 Points

I know I know two stanks shoudl be enough but well what can I say I really like to keep one cannon as the no pivot of the stank makes it sometimes hard to shoot the stuff I want to shoot also what is better than two cannons? Thats right three cannons, these fellows would really profit from the War alter prayers because flaming cannons are also fun but well I can´t have all the candy..can I?


***************  2 Rare Units  *************** 

Steam Tank
- - - > 250 Points

Steam Tank
- - - > 250 Points

Dual stank is about the most brutal thing we can do with the new Empire army book, they give us the option to just sit back and shoot cannonballs with no fear at all of some chaff units coming by to kill the crew or we can go full throttle ahead smashing into units eitehr destroying smaller ones outright or tarpitting units no matter how huge they are either to kill everything around or ride in with the cavalry in the flank or rear grinding the unit down. Oh he can also act as hammer should our knights be stuck somewhere with the knights riding the fleeing enemies down.

Total Points Empire : 2499

So it is unique because of Lore of Beasts, because we can completely dictate the flow of battle do fast elements and a mobile bsb to help our already very solid elements stubborn on 9 out(even the archers are very fast and versatile)we also have enough firepower to sit back and let the enemy come towards us thinning the lines out a bit (monsters and other warmachines like organ guns or hellblasters that would otherwise threaten our knights) before starting a devestating countercharge. Some additional Info, I wouldn´t use pistoliers in a heavy cav list, First I thought that two units of 5-6 would be grand but if you really think about it one big advantage is that the targets are "hard" so small arms fire won´t do much agains the heavy armoured list so all small arms fire units are reduced to redundancy 40 or more repeater crossbows won´t put a dent into the list as only one in six wounds causes a casualty so only 12 hits so usually the 40 shots will kill one knight...boohooo. If I add in "soft" targets like pistoliers I take the small arms units back out of their redundancy they can kill my pistoliers and gain their points back. While at first thought everything scream yes Knights and pistoliers, they are one of the worst choices one can make in a heavy cav list. Especially against dark elves.



So VOTE for me VOTE for success and VIctory of the Empire.

 :engel:
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 09:22:22 AM by Fandir Nightshade »

Offline zakalwe

  • Posts: 227
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 09:14:59 AM »
I am rather new to 2500 points lists, rarely play that level or comp style armies. prefer 3k plus.

Anyway, this list is based on a successful 2k list of mine, that has done well in some mild competitions.


General, FPA, Talisman of Endurance, Sword of strife, charmed shield, potion of strength. On a griffon, with bloodroar.   394 points

Aim is to get into the softer targets, asap, mages and xbow units.

Arch lector on a barded warhorse, heavy armour, shield, VHS and the white cloak.      222 points

This would probably be the general. He should be able to tarpit hard characters is a challenge, can also negate the pendant lord quite well ( charge out of unit if need be) Could make points for a magic weapon somewhere ( max 5 points)

Total lords 616 points

Heavens wiz, level 2, barded warhorse and a dispel scroll.                                      141 points.

Fire wizard, level 2, barded warhorse and either a feedback or hex scroll.                166 points

The magic defence is light, relying on aggression and speed to get in and dispatch the enemy wizards fast.  Scroll help in the first couple of turns as we close.  Heavens synergises with cavalry, also the debuff on enemy shooting is good.  Fire can help deal with chaff and hydra's potentially.

captain, BSB, barded warhorse, FPA, shield. Biting blade, dawnstone and the other tricksters shard.  159 points

warrior Priest, barded warhorse,  heavy armour, GW, luckstone and the crown of command.               128 points.

Total Heroes 594 points


10 inner circle knights, full command and the steel standard.    315 points

5 vanilla knights                                                                          110 points

5 vanilla knights                                                                           110 points       could be amalgamated into 1 larger unit of 8 plus command.

5 vanilla knights                                                                           110 points       chaff clearer's redirectors and drops.

total core 645 points

3 demigryph knights, lances, full command, banner of flame    214 points. ( could increase this unit ito 4 and have 1 unit of pistoleers)

5 pistoleers                                                                                90 points

5 pistoleers                                                                                90 points  drops, redirectors and chaff clearing. also warmachine and wiz hunters.
                                                                                                                              could drop to 1 larger unit with musician and gain a demigryph.
total special 394 points

Steam tank                                                                             250 points

total rare 250 points


Total 2499 points


As stated this is a newish scale of game for me, the basis of this list done well vs high elves ( coven), ogres and brets in  a 2k tourny earlier in the year.

It really has to advance quickly. combat in turn 2 preferable.  Get the Griffon and core knight units in. pistoleers disrupt.

Archlector plus 1 wiz in main unit. If we amalgamate 2x5 knights into 1x8 plus command, stick in the bsb and wp.

otherwise have the other chars float with the smaller units, have the WP join with the demigryphs in combat if possible.



BLITZKRIEG!!!!!






Offline Holy Hand Grenade

  • Moderator
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  • Never leave the Province without it...
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2012, 10:52:19 AM »
So....a bunch of good entries so far.  The nice thing about our new book it there is a lot to choose from-  even if you are going highly mobile or with heavy cav.

Still waiting to reach at least 10 lists...don't sit on the sidelines!  Get your calculator out and show us what you got!

Here is what we have so far-  I tallied up some important stats for you to assist you in looking at the lists side-by-side.  Of course, the stats don't tell the full story about the army (read all the entries for that), but it does give you a good look at how they stack up against each other. 

Hopefully this graph comes out well enough to so you read it. 





If I made any mistakes on your list, let me know.  I didn't add the characters into the unit numbers because in some lists I wasn't sure where the characters were intended to go.

Once we get enough lists, I will list them all together and open the floor for comments on generally what people like/don't like.  After forum readers have enough time to digest them, then I will call for a vote.   :icon_cool:
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10067
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2012, 10:58:52 AM »
Well done with the overview...I hope the voting won´t be everyone just voting for his own list  :biggriin:

Offline Noght

  • Posts: 3123
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2012, 02:19:14 PM »
List #9:

Little Fluffier, White Wolf Knights, Bright Wizard Lord, Bus of Swordsmen (might need to break Steadfast).
Characters listed, then unit.


2500 Noght's Warhammer Empire Forum 2500 Pts  -   Empire Army

1 Grand Master @ 256.0 Pts
     General; Barding; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armor; Warhorse
     White Cloak of Ulric, Healing Potion, Ratslayer Helm

1 Warrior Priest @ 103.0 Pts
     Barding; Prayers of Sigmar; Heavy Armour; Warhorse
     Ironcurse Icon, Shrieking Blade, Charmed Shield
 
13 Knights of the Knights of the White Wolf Inner Circle @ 380.0 Pts 
     Barding; Full Plate Armor; Great Weapons; Standard; Musician; Warhorse
     The Steel Standard



1 Warrior Priest @ 103.0 Pts
     Barding; Prayers of Sigmar; Heavy Armour; Warhorse, Great Weapon
     Dragonhelm

9 Reiksguard Knights @ 273.0 Pts
     Barding; Lance; Full Plate Armor; Shield; Standard; Musician; Reikscaptain


1 Wizard Lord of the Bright Order @ 225.0 Pts
     Magic Level 4; Lore of Fire Dispel Scroll

1 Captain of the Empire @ 106.0 Pts
     Full Plate Armor; Battle Standard; Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield

33 Swordsmen @ 441.0 Pts
     Standard; Musician; Duelist

     15 Det - Halberdiers @ [90.0] Pts
         
     15 Det - Halberdiers @ [90.0] Pts
         

5 Pistoliers @ 100.0 Pts w/Musician

5 Pistoliers @ 100.0 Pts w/Musician
     
5 Outriders @ 105.0 Pts
     
1 Helblaster Volley Gun @ 120.0 Pts

1 Great Cannon @ 120.0 Pts

1 Master Engineer @ 65.0 Pts

 
Total Army Cost: 2497.0
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 04:06:47 PM by Noght »
"...the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance which fancies it knows everything..."  Camus.

Offline grifter

  • Posts: 283
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2012, 03:04:14 PM »
Well done with the overview...I hope the voting won´t be everyone just voting for his own list  :biggriin:

Well, it´s not very gentleman-like, but if I didn´t want to see my list in action, I wouldn´t submit one...I guess if everyone votes their own list as #1 it evens out in the end.  :blush:

Offline Grazhnakk

  • Posts: 54
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2012, 03:26:51 PM »
How about two votes per person - and you can't vote for the same list twice? Most of us will vote for our own, then we'll vote for one other. Should work out.

Offline zifnab0

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 05:06:06 PM »
I've been just watching the lists that come in, no real desire to put one together myself

Offline mottdon

  • Posts: 2359
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2012, 09:10:52 PM »
No worries.  I've been watching the lists com in and there is plenty that I would like to see on the table top to vote for.  Someone will definitely come out on top.

Offline mottdon

  • Posts: 2359
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2012, 09:14:03 PM »
I can't wait to get this one started!  The suspense is killer!  So when do we get to start voting for favorites?  :-D

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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  • Never leave the Province without it...
Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.0 The Beginning!
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2012, 09:16:27 PM »
The voting system I am using will work really well to find a couple of winners.

I am sure everyone will vote for their own list as #1 (why wouldn't you?) but the lists that will win we be the ones rated consistently in other people's top 5....because when the tallies are all added up, they will be the ones that rise to the top.

I added Noght's list and the one I used as an example to get us to 10 (and made 1 correction on Wind's).  I will give it another half of day before I close out adding more lists so we can move on.





A few comments-  one of my motivations about doing this cav TDG was to see how people mitigate some of the weaknesses of a cav list. 

I like the lists that still included a little bit of infantry... and I also like the ones that included some kind of diverters/blockers in addition to their big blocks of nastiness.  Of course, we can't forget about our ranged firepower and arty and it looks like most list have something in this category to add support.

What do you think is the most important support element for a cavalry army? 
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

HHG's TDG/TEG Dice Tracker