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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« on: September 21, 2012, 08:40:50 AM »
Tactical Decision Game 2.3:  To Charge or Not to Charge…that is the Question


***Note-  read the following thread to follow along with the Tactical Decision Game 2 storyline: 
--Tactical Decision Game 2.0:  The Beginning
--Tactical Decision Game 2.1:  Strategy & Deployment
--Tactical Decision Game 2.2:  Magic, Magic, Magic


-------------------------------------

Tactical Decision Games are a fun way to think through tough situations that Empire Generals face.  It is all about making tough decisions in tough situations… so the next time you face similar situations-  you are ready for them!  Check out Tactical Decision Game 1:  Empire versus the Ogrebus if you haven’t seen it yet to get an idea of what a TDG is all out. 

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Team Blue Turn Two

Team B fires up the boiler’s in both its STanks-  they both attempt to generate 4 Steam Points.  STank 1 has no issues, STank 2 suffers a mishap.  It rolls a 2 and so it suffers a Minor Leak.  Unfortunately, it loses 3 Steam and only has 1 remaining.  (I think this particular tank is cursed and should have been left back in Altdorf…!)





What do you want to charge?

What do you want to do with the rest of your movement?

List each unit and what you would do with it.
 

I will total up what the majority opinion is for each unit and post the winning actions for final review before executing the movement phase.

--The Knights (Kn1) are 20” away from the Dark Riders and Shades.
--The Captasus is within farting distance from the Dark Riders, 14” away from the Hydra.  It can fly over the DR to charge the Hydra.
--The Knights (Kn2) are 14" away from the Dark Riders (DR2).
--STank 1 is 8” away from the Executioners.
--STank 2 is out of range for a Steam Gun blast.



Team Green Turn Two

Your Steam Tank generates 4 Steam with no issues.





What do you want to charge?

What do you want to do with the rest of your movement?

List each unit and what you would do with it.
 

I will total up what the majority opinion is for each unit and post the winning actions for final review before executing the movement phase.

--The Demis (DG1) are 17” away from the Executioners, 14” away from the Harpies.
--The Knights (Kn1) are 16” away from the Executioner, 12” away from the Harpies.
--The ICK are 15” away from the Warrior horde.
--The Reiksguard are 16” away from the Warrior horde, and 19” away from the Hydra.
--The Demis (DG2) are 18” away from the Dark Riders and cannot see the Shades or Harpies.
--The Knights (Kn2) cannot see the Shades or Harpies.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 11:06:15 AM by Holy Hand Grenade »
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Offline Windelov

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 09:26:00 AM »

Here goes some quite aggresive suggestions.

Knight 1: move up 10 inches or so, to face the shades, while just barely not exposing the flank to the Dark Riders (that way we are sure to hit the shades next turn, which might cause us to pursue them into the little spear elf unit; if the dark riders charge us we hold, win combat and will most proberly pursue into the shades anyhow and break them)

All archers stay put

IC knights move forward by some 4 inches, (the minor witch may wanna get in range of our wizard), if so I think we should consider charging the major spear unit with both IC knigths and reiksguard and hope to erradicate both the BSB and the minor witch, in one glorious charge (it will cost us dearly but I think it might be our best option before we get even more spelled up), just make sure the dreadlord doesnt get to attack any of our characters.

Same for the reiksguard, move (not march) through the forest so the unit barely touches the magic circle aura but getting as close as possible to the large spear unit.

Knight unit 2. how far away is the 2nd dark rider unit, and how many knights would be in dif. terrain charging them?? See Stank 2,

Captasus charges the hydra

Stank 1, 3 pt on engine 1 pt on Sgun, hit the Executioners a little to the our left, no need to hit the champion.

Stank 2, if the steam gun is able to hit the Dark Riders we steam 'em otherwise move d 6 ahead onto the hill and the Knight unit 2 might charge them.


Finally for the mathlore of a full knigth front attack on the spear unit, we will lose about 5 knights, 2 to the dreadlord, and three by join effort of the hero, witch and 38 spear attacks. It only take the attacks of 4 knights and their steeds to take down the general, likewise 4 should suffice to take down the bsb and another three for the witch.. Our casualties will increase tremendously if our knights gets rusted or they spears gets enhanced. I think we really should consider this our best call, as time (magic) is not in our favour
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 11:08:45 AM by Windelov »

Offline zakalwe

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 10:02:40 AM »
How far is the Stank from the harpies?  If reasonably close a possibility is charging them with ST, sending KN2 as a redirector of the executioners ( unless we want them in the ST flank). And moving the demi's up, making a play at his wiz bunker next turn.

Other demi's and KN1 move onto the hill for next turn charges/ magic resist angled towards centre. Reiksguard could shuffle forward slightly.
Magic and HBVG focus warrior unit.





Image not 100%, avoid overrun possibility for executioners into DGK. Another option would be to redirect with DGK in order to allow the small knight unit a channel to the wiz bunker next turn.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 10:09:39 AM by zakalwe »

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »
How far is the Stank from the harpies?

9"
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Offline Windelov

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 10:59:35 AM »
Hi HHG, how are the characters placed in the big spear unit? and likewise for our two knight units? thx  :::cheers:::

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 11:48:13 AM »
Quote
The Knights (Kn1) are 16” away from the Executioner, 12” away from the Harpies.

The only charge I'm willing to make is the Kn1 on Harpies.

Quote
The Demis (DG2) are 18” away from the Dark Riders and cannot see the Shades or Harpies
I kind of dispute that thay can't see the Shades BTW.  If you count the 12" squares over both units have models east of the 48" line (counting by 12 east to west).


IMPORTANT!  I think the Vanilla Knights footprint is wrong.  6x25mm = 150mm.  DGs are 3x50mm = 150mm.  If the Knights are 3x2 than they need to be deeper rather than 6x1.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 12:30:05 PM by Noght »
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Offline Friar Metick

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 12:11:25 PM »
Team Green, wasn't one of our goals to tie up the Exe's with the steam tank?
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Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 12:45:57 PM »
Team Green, wasn't one of our goals to tie up the Exe's with the steam tank?

Tank range from Spearmen and Executioners?
I actually think we lose that battle, let's see what the ranges are...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 01:01:46 PM by Noght »
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Offline zifnab0

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 01:01:53 PM »
Demigryphs should Hold.  We don't want to charge the executioners.

K1 should move up to block the Executioners from charging our back line, but close enough and angled to force him to overrun into the Arcane Ruins.

Steam tank should hold.  Shoot the Hydra.

ICK back up just over 2", leaving the warriors more than 17" away.

Reiksguard should move to occupy the DG space, keeping the Steam Tank and Dark Riders in our front arc, but out of LOS of the warrior unit.

DG should move onto the hill, hopefully out of the Hydra's front arc and block the Dark Riders from charging the Reiksguard.

K2 should back up and turn to face towards the center, ready to deal with the Harpies.  If they move up the Harpies will fly overhead and they'll threaten our backfield.

The objective here is to force the big warrior unit into a difficult situation.  The steam tank should be the only target in charge range.  But if he charges it, he will get the ICK in the flank and Reiksguard in the rear.  If he marches he'll get triple charged by the ICK, Reiksguard and Steam Tank, but at least not in the rear.

The Executioners will be held off by the small K1 unit, forcing them to reform after combat and keeping them out of the fight for another turn.  If he advances the Dark Riders, we can charge past the Executioners with the DG, if not we can use the DG to protect our HBVG as needed.

Depending on how things go in the Magic Phase we might get to fire both HBVG at the Executioners, which should at least put some hurt on them.

Offline Empire - Ulric

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 02:36:40 PM »
I think the only charge I would declare at this time is the Knights1 Unit into the harpies. If he flees I would attempt to redirect into the executioners just to get a better line of escape when I fail the charge and am left stranded to be charged by the Executioners next turn. If we make the charge he will more than likely wipe the unit out but does not get to overrun and that helps to prevent charging/overrun shenanigans on the Dark Elves next turn.

The Demigryphs1 should shuffle back a few inches as should the IC Knight Unit and the Reiksguard.

The Demigryphs2 and Knights2 should move up on top of the hill angled toward the center and the Dark Riders / Hydra

The Steam Tank should stay about where it is for now and put a cannon ball through the Warriors and into the Hydra. It may get charged by the big unit of Warriors but if so that's a good thing for us. The tank will hold out for a turn and then get a big IC Knight unit and some Reiksguard in their flank.

The over all objective here is to buy ourselves a couple of Hellblaster volleys into the unit of Warriors (1 turn of shooting with both guns) before engaging it. The same or better with the executioners horde which at this point we should be working on diverting

Next turn is the time to charge.

Offline Harshey

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 03:35:57 PM »
I agree with what Ulric says. Pretty much what I said before the magic phase ended, but now knowing how far away the Demi's on the right are from the dark riders, there is no point in declaring that charge.

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 04:33:41 PM »
Ok, here's what I'd like.  Kn1 as a diverter for the Executioners aiming the overrun at the Ruins.  DGs 1 to move up and aim towards the Sorcerer Lord Bunker (the Kn1 need to be placed to prevent the Exec can't charge on the DGs).  Dreadlord will feed us the DR as a diverter or prevent a rear charge on the Execs.  Kn2 and DGs2 up the hill setting up flank charges toward the center.  Reiksguard as Zif suggested, out of LOS of spears moving near old DGs spot.
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Offline Grazhnakk

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 04:45:27 PM »

Agree with Windelov on Kn1.

Move up the small archer detachments 4" (so they can still shoot) so that we can hopefully take out one of the harpy units once they're in play. I suspect we'll see them next round.

ICK should move up a little, but not too much - threaten to charge something if our elven opposite chooses to move something in range.

The critical part is the stank/executioner issue over to our right. If we can win that, we can then redeploy some resources to put pressure on the spears in the center. Until then, I want to divert and avoid the spears.

So, I propose that we charge in the able stank, grind and fire the steam cannon. Stank 2 uses its one measly steam point to move up and turn towards the executioners so we don't expose its flank.

Captasus should charge the dark riders (who might not actually flee given that he'll likely run them down) and redirect to the weakened hydra should they get away.

Reiksguard should move up to support the stanks and be ready for a charge next turn.

Kn2... I'm not sure what to do with it. We really need to get rid of the sorceress. I'm thinking redeploy the Kn2 to support Kn1 on the left.

Offline zifnab0

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2012, 04:56:53 PM »
Ok, here's what I'd like.  Kn1 as a diverter for the Executioners aiming the overrun at the Ruins.  DGs 1 to move up and aim towards the Sorcerer Lord Bunker (the Kn1 need to be placed to prevent the Exec can't charge on the DGs).  Dreadlord will feed us the DR as a diverter or prevent a rear charge on the Execs.  Kn2 and DGs2 up the hill setting up flank charges toward the center.  Reiksguard as Zif suggested, out of LOS of spears moving near old DGs spot.
[color]I support this plan.[/color]

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 05:02:14 PM »
I throw in my two cents



The Captasus should really charge the Hydra as should the dark riders hold (which seems to be the plan) the hydra will most likely be able to charge the captasus running it down much more likely...no S6 attacks from the captain and instead of static CR of 2 (charge and bsb) we will have a CR of 0 (+1 bsb -1 hydra charging).

The knights 2 can charge the dark riders and hopefully don´t take too many losses due the woods.

Stank 1 should charge the executioners

stank 2 up the hill without a flank to the executioners

reiksguard should ride hard to try getting into flank charge position should the stank 1 survive and the executioners hold instead of running.

Knights 1 should move towards the mage bunker making sure the dark riders are not in the flank.

Archers should march ahead for divertion duty.

Hmmm Holy Hand grenade how far are the spear elves with the lord away? And we really would need to know there the chars are....if we still can decide I usuall field my characters on the right side of the unit the priest on the very end and the Grandmaster second. If we are within 17 inches we should try a charge......Wyssans and the Beast might be enough for us to break the bunch  but at the very least we should be able to kill the bsb and the death mage deseperate measures and such ...eh? only viable if your Grandmaster isn´t in touch with his lord though.

Offline Windelov

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Sv: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2012, 05:35:06 PM »
Blue: I just saw the potential of that positioning fandir, +1
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:09:17 PM by Windelov »

Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2012, 05:43:18 PM »
DG1 angle at the mage bunker, potentially hitting the Exe´s flank if they show it. As has been suggested, he will probably throw the Dark Riders in their way. That´s fine.
Kn1 charge the Harpies, overrun toward the Bunker if they flee and hopefully end up between the Execs and the rest of our forces.
STank needs to shift to the left of the Hellblaster so the Dark Riders can´t charge the HB next turn! It can still shoot through the Warriors and hopefully the Hydra that way.
ICK shuffle back a bit.
Reiksguard, DG2 and Kn2 do as zifnab0 suggested.

Between the Hellblasters, the Comet hopefully coming down and the STank that Warrior block should be reduced to a more managable size this turn. The Execs are still troublesome, but will be held up and softened up by the HB next. Everything else is just mop up after that.




Offline mottdon

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2012, 05:45:40 PM »
I throw in my two cents



The Captasus should really charge the Hydra as should the dark riders hold (which seems to be the plan) the hydra will most likely be able to charge the captasus running it down much more likely...no S6 attacks from the captain and instead of static CR of 2 (charge and bsb) we will have a CR of 0 (+1 bsb -1 hydra charging).

The knights 2 can charge the dark riders and hopefully don´t take too many losses due the woods.

Stank 1 should charge the executioners

stank 2 up the hill without a flank to the executioners

reiksguard should ride hard to try getting into flank charge position should the stank 1 survive and the executioners hold instead of running.

Knights 1 should move towards the mage bunker making sure the dark riders are not in the flank.

Archers should march ahead for divertion duty.

Hmmm Holy Hand grenade how far are the spear elves with the lord away? And we really would need to know there the chars are....if we still can decide I usuall field my characters on the right side of the unit the priest on the very end and the Grandmaster second. If we are within 17 inches we should try a charge......Wyssans and the Beast might be enough for us to break the bunch  but at the very least we should be able to kill the bsb and the death mage deseperate measures and such ...eh? only viable if your Grandmaster isn´t in touch with his lord though.


+1 to this.  I was thinking along the same lines.  This would also help keep the majority of our army from being too divided.  One other thing that I am sure we will be facing soon are his harpies.  They are clearly being held in reserve to act as screens for his large spear block.  I think that our archers need to thin them out as much as possible. 
Also, a little food for thought.  It might not be a bad idea to get our ICK block as close to his Executioners as possible so that they can be a very real threat.  If we need them for that battle (wiping them out and getting the points) then we can use them there but also redirect our forces to face the spear block and concentrate on them fully.  Just something to think about.

Offline zifnab0

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2012, 06:09:32 PM »
STank needs to shift to the left of the Hellblaster so the Dark Riders can´t charge the HB next turn!
The DG are 17" from the Dark Riders.  I doubt the Dark Riders are within 20" of the HBVG.

The steam tank has to pivot and move, it can't pivot at the end of its movement.  So whatever direction it moves is where it's shooting.  If we shift to block the HBVG then it probably won't have a target.

Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2012, 06:21:44 PM »
You´re probably right on the Dark Riders...all the better then!

For some reason I thought the STank could just turn around at will...still stuck on 40K movement I guess.  :blush:



Offline Empire - Ulric

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2012, 06:46:06 PM »
Ok, here's what I'd like.  Kn1 as a diverter for the Executioners aiming the overrun at the Ruins.  DGs 1 to move up and aim towards the Sorcerer Lord Bunker (the Kn1 need to be placed to prevent the Exec can't charge on the DGs).  Dreadlord will feed us the DR as a diverter or prevent a rear charge on the Execs.  Kn2 and DGs2 up the hill setting up flank charges toward the center.  Reiksguard as Zif suggested, out of LOS of spears moving near old DGs spot.

This misses one key fact....... if we don't charge the Harpies with something we must either shoot them or magic them to death as they will charge our Hell Blaster on their next turn. We have much more important things to shoot / magic right now other than Harpies.

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2012, 06:54:55 PM »
I think that we always intended to shoot the Harpies if the Comet doesn't smoke them. Which I suspect will happen.
"...the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance which fancies it knows everything..."  Camus.

Offline Harshey

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2012, 08:25:35 PM »
I agree that was the plan to shoot the harpies, but if the knights can engage them, then if the comet doesn't come down, we're covered. If it does, then the knights have a good chance of being spared. As a redirect or, the knights are in a pretty decent spot if they charge in. We can take the charge from the executioners, and then counter charge with what's left of our tank and the  unless blocked by the dark riders.

If the harpies flee, they surely be killed by the comet in the next Two phases, may cause a panic test for other units and the jnights move forward 3", which is fine to deal with the dark riders or let through a metal spell or two if the casting goes their way (which I doubt).

One more movement thought we haven't mentioned: make sure our wizard is within 12" of both HBVGs. I think this is doable if the wizard is on the closest side to the guns. Want to think about our magic phase options: I don't think comet is our best option. Going forward,  the harmonic bubble is key this turn. 

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2012, 08:51:07 PM »
I agree that was the plan to shoot the harpies, but if the knights can engage them, then if the comet doesn't come down, we're covered. If it does, then the knights have a good chance of being spared.

The harpies flee.  We can't redirect into Execs, that's silly.  Now we fail a charge pinning the DGs in place because we can't redirect the Execs.

HHG!  You need to fix Knight footprint if possible.  Battle Chronicler is a bitch to fix mistakes, sorry.
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Offline SevenSins

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.3: To Charge or not to Charge...
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2012, 09:16:38 PM »
Stank on executioners and captasus on hydra, I'll leave the rest of the desicions to abler minds