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Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« on: September 28, 2012, 01:51:02 AM »
Tactical Decision Game 2.5:  Die Hard

***Note-  read the following thread to follow along with the Tactical Decision Game 2 storyline: 
--Tactical Decision Game 2.0:  The Beginning
--Tactical Decision Game 2.1:  Strategy & Deployment
--Tactical Decision Game 2.2:  Magic, Magic, Magic
--Tactical Decision Game 2.3:  To Charge or Not to Charge
--Tactical Decision Game 2.4:  The Plot Thickens


-------------------------------------

Tactical Decision Games are a fun way to think through tough situations that Empire Generals face.  It is all about making tough decisions in tough situations… so the next time you face similar situations-  you are ready for them!  Check out Tactical Decision Game 1:  Empire versus the Ogrebus if you haven’t seen it yet to get an idea of what a TDG is all out. 

-------------------------------------


Team Blue Turn Four Movement

Team B fires up the boiler’s in its tank.  4 Steam, no issues.   

The Archer Detachment and ICK charge the Warrior Bus.  It holds.

The west Knights charge the small Warrior unit but fail to reach it by 1.”  They move forward 5”

The STank slams into the Harpies.






Team Green Turn Three Movement

Your Steam Tank goes for 5 Steam, not caring too much if it explodes.  It does something probably even better-  it gets a Dangerous Overpressure on its Mishap roll-  generating 2 extra steam while taking 2 wounds.  The STank is down to 1 wound, but it has an insane 7 Steam to work with this round (some Executioners are going to die!). 

Just about everything charges:
--West Demis charge the back of the Execs
--ICK charge the Harpies
--Demis and Knights charge the Dark Riders

The STank cranks out 6 points of grind-idge for 5 wounds.  5 Exes die.





Tactical Decisions for the Empire Magic Phase

You get double 4s for the Winds of Magic.  No channels (sorry Team Blue, even with the extra from the Ruins, no love).

8 PD to 5 DD.

What is your first spell going to be and how many dice?


The usual gig for spells.  The spell that gets the most votes for the first spell goes first.  Then, if the next spell isn't clear, I will call for another vote.

I am traveling again for the next several days.  If there is a delay, don't fret.  I will move us to the next spell as soon as I can.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 11:05:26 AM by Holy Hand Grenade »
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline Harshey

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 02:25:50 AM »
I think that we should try and spam spells and see what gets let through.

1.  2 dice iceshard on hydra
2. 2 dice harmonic on Demi fighting hydra
3. 2 dice thunderbolt on spearmen ( small unit if visible)
4. 2 dice comet - plaleftover top left corner of spearmen block. It could kill last Demi if it goes horribly wrong. Doubt it will go off.

I don't think we need the prayers this turn.

If I was dark elf player, I would try and stop iceshard, and harmonic Which might allow us to get the damage spells through. If we roll above average and with the HBVGs (hitting on 6s) we might be able to whittle this unit down and cause a panic.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 02:55:49 AM »
Current Wound Tracker

Team Blue

Grand Master       Full health
Warrior Priest    Full health
9 Knights of the Order      9 left

Luthor Huss       Full health
10 Reiksguard         10 left

Wizard Lord       Full health.  Used scroll
10 Archers            10 left
5 Archer Det            5 left

5 Knights             4 left

5 Knights             5 left

Great Cannon         2 wounds left

Steam Tank            Rusted, -1 AS


Dreadlord versus Team Blue

Dreadlord  (Gen)    Full health
Noble  (BSB)       Full health
Death Sorc       1 wound
Supreme Sorceress  Full health
47 Warriors              43

40 Executioners         24 left 

15 Warriors            6 left

12 Shades            9 left

5 Harpies            5 left



Team Green

Luthor Huss       Full health
Battle Wizard Lord  Full health
Captain (BSB)       Full health
13 Knights of the Inner Circle    13 left.  Rusted.  -1AS

6 Knightly Orders          6 left

Warrior Priest       Full health
9 Reiksguard Knights       9 left

Helblaster Volley Gun       2 wounds left
Master Engineer          Full health

Helblaster Volley Gun       Full health
Master Engineer         Full health

3 Inner Circle Knights      1 left

3 Inner Circle Knights      1 left.  Rusted, -1AS

Steam Tank            1 wound


Dreadlord versus Team Green

Dreadlord  (Gen)          Full health
Noble  (BSB)            Full health
Death Sorc            Full health
Supreme Sorceress    Full health
47 Warriors            21 

40 Executioners         22 

15 Warriors            3 left
   
12 Shades            12 left

Hydra               2 wounds left

5 Dark Riders         5 left

5 Harpies            5 left



--------------------------------------------------
Let me know if you see any errors!

HHG
If at first you don't succeed...you either don't have enough faith or you need to bring more explosives

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Offline MrAbyssal

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 04:02:56 AM »
Hmm, 8 Dice v 5 dice...

3 Dice Wyssan's
2 Dice Flock of Doom
2 Dice Savage Beast
1 Dice Hammer of Sigmar (ICK WP)

How does that sound? Wyssan's and Flock to draw out Dispel dice and then we can hit Savage on the TGM, assuming it's in range. Savage and Wyssan's are interchangeable though I guess as they'll both have a good effect. Shield of Faith could be worth it over Hammer too if we don't want the Dreadlord carving up our Knights as much.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 06:03:09 AM »
Before asking HHG to provide the exact place I think I am allowed to share the information I already have with you guys and provide a pic of my own.

Here is how the DE characters are placed in the unit The DL is now on the left end of the unit therefore in contact with the knights. Hence I would strongly suggest NOT to cast Wyssans as it would boost his strength to 8 so -5 to AS instead of -3. (stupidy axe of the executioner)

M x x x x x
D x B C x DL

M-  Metal mage
D-  Death Mage
B-  BSB
C-  Champ
DL- Dreadlord

So after the charge move we should look at something like this



(The grandmaster decided to make way to chop the bsb to bits and pieces....maybe if we get good enough spells out we should also move the priest next to him but a big maybe as we want the priest out of combat due to the crown of command).

So I like to plan what the enemy will do after each spell I cast and what the chances are to bring through one spell or more and what spell I really would like to have.

he has 5 dispel dice AND IMPORTANT a scroll so he basically has as much mojo as we have....our advantage though is that we are close to the ruins so +1 to cast and also every spell we cast on the knights gets another +1 as they are on horses so we cast beast spells on the knights at +6...nice!

I think flock of doom isn´t important right now as ....well it is all about the close combat this turn crush or being crushed.

What spells I would like to have in order of importance

Horros savage beast
curse of anraheir on the spears
shield of faith (5+ ward save 1+ armour save...yess please)
hammer of sigmar

I would strongly advice against using only one or two dice as a double 1 would mean our beast mage is unable to go on with casting so we have two paths.....lots of spells or one big spell at 6 dice and another one on 2.

We can be tricky about this though if we go 6 dice we either get IF or we don´t. IF we don´t get IF he will scroll it and use his 5 dispel to dispel our 2 dice spell easily.

So we have to force dilemmas on him I would start with 2 dice shield of faith on the knights....we should get it but if we don´t it is no drama. He is in the position to choose now let it go? in case we go for many spells instead of one big mojo magic spell? Or trying to dispel it as the knights would have 4+ 5++ even against his killy lord most likely piercing him on their lances in return? If he dispels one dice or at least two? one dice means he has a 1/3 chance of failing as a 1 or 2 will mean auto fail....this would be a huuuge problem for him as his big ass mage couldn´t dispel anymore this turn and we would go for many spells with few dices....so either he goes for no dispel or most likely 2 dice keeping 3 against our remaining 6. if we go big spell he has the scroll option if we go two little spells he can scroll one and dispel the other with 3 dices.

IF he goes for the dispel...we continue with small spells as we got +6 on horros for the grand master so on 3 dices we would go +6 against his +5 good chances for us if not  no drama followed by a 3 dices curse of anraheir he can´t afford either of the spells so will be in a pickle depending on our casting roll.

IF he doesn´t go for dispels....we go 6 dice Horros on 20 in hope of IF so he can´t use his remaining dice AND his scroll, to give the grand master AND the priest +3 A and +3S turning both of them into combat monsters.

So my suggestion

2 dice shield of faith on  3+ (average result should be 7 chance of success 97.2%)

followed by either

6 dice horros savage beast on 20 + (average result should be 28 chance of success 96.4%)

OR

3 dice curse of anraheir (rather do this one first) 10+ (average result should be 18 chance of success 99.5 %)
and
3 dice horros savage beast.  10 + (average result should be 17 chance of success 98.1)

No need to tempt faith.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:07:57 AM by Fandir Nightshade »

Offline George

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 06:26:29 AM »
I like that plan Fandir....leaning towards wanting more spells than less.

Just a thought on attack priorities in the combat. If we can kill the champ before our Knights swing then the metal mage will be forced to the front and allow our knights to try and tear her apart. unfortunately killing just the BSB would force her into a position where essentially only the Grandmaster would get to attack her....but his swings will already be completed.
So as greedy as it sounds I'm thinking send 1 GM attack at the champion.....getting the reroll to wound prayer off would help this idea.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2012, 06:35:48 AM »
The grandmaster has the runefang....so no need to wound I still would rather pool all four attacks on the BsB if we have more....sure thing to kill the chimp too but we need at least two hits...better to go all four attacks for this. But for detail planning we should wait for the magic phase to be over.



ALSO fingers crossed we make ouf fear check.....yes that is right due to the metal witch being able to cast a flaming spell they cause fear in our unit....oh wait we have a Grandmaster of choppyness therefore ignoring stupid fear checks! HUZZAH!

Offline Dnic

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2012, 06:38:51 AM »

1: 3 dice thunderbolt on the small unit af spaermen. If we cant hit them, then on the shades. And we hope he will use dice on dispel this.
2: 2 dice harmonic on Demi fighting hydra.
3: 3 dice iceshard on hydra (the most importen. We need the demi to survive.

Offline zakalwe

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2012, 07:14:05 AM »
How are the executioners formed up? If the Demigryph survives there is a pretty good chance we can break them. Though i assume they would get steadfast, are they 7 by 3?

It looks like the KNights have an overrun onto the shades potentially?

I would also start with 2 dice iceshard on Hydra,
 2 d Harmonic as has been suggested.
I would go for a thunderbolt on the bus, or 4 d comet the SE ruins.


Offline Windelov

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 07:22:40 AM »

M x x x x x
D x B C x DL

M-  Metal mage
D-  Death Mage
B-  BSB
C-  Champ
DL- Dreadlord
/color]

Well I did get that all wrong then, I read "The Metal Sorc jumps into the new bus.  The Warrior bunker she left reforms, faces toward the west Knights and moves their direction.  (Death Mage on the right, BSB 3rd from the right, Dreadlord on the left, Metal Mage in the 2nd row)" as the dreadlord to the west corner and deathmage opposite.. I understand why you wanted the archers to go right now, sorry! :eusa_wall:

I'm afraid though that you have plotted one too many knight in that map, we have 9 + priest and TGM, totalling 11 models (12 shown),

And for something really speculative, that might be way off:
We might be in problems with our WP, as far as I remember he is placed third from right (can anyone confirm this?).. If so the priest will not survive to provide hatred to our knights/GTM,  and we really need that hatred bonus. This might seem a bit weird but we could challenge with our priest, if the dreadlord accepts he can only kill the priest and nothing else (but he could so without the challenge), while if the BSB accepts he will live but so will the BSB (except if we cast the big horror boosting the WP). This would put the dreadlord in the BSB position, and we should make-way with our TGM to the slot second from the left.. what do you think?


Agree with the wyssan's. Shield would be nice and two dices should suffice. Horrors and/or curse depends on the above. 


Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 07:27:20 AM »
Priest at least from my pointers would be on the right corner next to him the GM I always place my most vulnerable guys on either corner and next to them the most fighty one.

Yes it should only be 11 models in a 6/5 formation

Priest and GM are both out of contact otherwise I would be less happy to even go into that combat.



Also metal witch is in the unit but in the second rank....first rank has Musician and standard. So legal to hide her in the back.



Offline George

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 07:28:12 AM »
The grandmaster has the runefang....so no need to wound I still would rather pool all four attacks on the BsB if we have more....sure thing to kill the chimp too but we need at least two hits...better to go all four attacks for this. But for detail planning we should wait for the magic phase to be over.
!


aaah runefang...I was too lazy to go back and check our equipment....what a shame we don't get he rerolls of the priest. I agree we want to ensure we get 2 hits....I did say it was greedy!
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Offline Windelov

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Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2012, 08:55:48 AM »
Priest at least from my pointers would be on the right corner next to him the GM I always place my most vulnerable guys on either corner and next to them the most fighty one.

Yes it should only be 11 models in a 6/5 formation

Priest and GM are both out of contact otherwise I would be less happy to even go into combat



HHG, could you state placement of characters, we stated previously:
" but I guess we could try placing in the ICK unit champion on the right edge in case of the charge only him touching the dreadlord, then the grandmaster then the warrior priest and the rest of the unit. This way as stated the dreadlord most likely will murder our poor chimp "

Cheers

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Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2012, 10:22:29 AM »
Isn´t the remaining DG1 just going to to die against the Executioners? I would have rather seen him take out the remaining Bunker-Elfs to secure those points.

Anyways, I would cast:

2d Thunderbolt on the Shades
3d Comet right between the Executioners and Spear-Elves
2d Harmonic Convergence on the Demigryph fighting the Executioners
1d Iceshard Blizzard on the Hydra

The Dispel Scroll is gone, right? And we are within 12 of the Ruins, right? Hopefully the Bolt + Comet will draw most of his DD, allowing us to help out our Demigryphs.

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2012, 10:54:54 AM »
No Thunderbolt because our Mage is in combat, it's a Magic Missle.

So that leaves us Comet, Shard, Harmonic and Prayers.  Figures, the one time magic is irrelevant is the turn we get +4 Magic dice.

The only thing that's tight is the Hydra fight, the Tank and Demigryphs out west are gone.  So shard on the Hydra and Harmonic on the Demigryphs.

How do we get there?  Not even sure it's worth a miscast, so just load up on prayers early?
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Offline zifnab0

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 11:34:14 AM »

Magic really isn't important this turn, except maybe iceshard on the Hydra.  Comet on the west would be nice.

3 dice a comet over the spearelves.

2 dice harmonic on DG2.

3 dice iceshard on Hydra.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: Sv: Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 11:35:31 AM »
How are the executioners formed up? If the Demigryph survives there is a pretty good chance we can break them. Though i assume they would get steadfast, are they 7 by 3?
It looks like the KNights have an overrun onto the shades potentially?


Yes, the Execs did a combat reform with the STank and are 7x3 now.

And yes, the Knights can potentially overrun into the Shades!



I'm afraid though that you have plotted one too many knight in that map, we have 9 + priest and TGM, totalling 11 models (12 shown)[/color]

Sometimes The Battle Chronicler gets a mind of its own...  I am tracking 11 in that unit.

HHG, could you state placement of characters, we stated previously:
" but I guess we could try placing in the ICK unit champion on the right edge in case of the charge only him touching the dreadlord, then the grandmaster then the warrior priest and the rest of the unit. This way as stated the dreadlord most likely will murder our poor chimp "

Well, it is probably a good thing that I missed that comment.  I was tracking the characters on the far right.  The TGM will be able to make way like Fandir wants and the WP can stay out of combat.
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Offline Windelov

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Sv: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 12:12:30 PM »
Great, thx HHG for being patient with us asking about all these details.. No worries then, lets collect some pointy ears, I hear they make good trade in altdorf as dog food.

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Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2012, 12:46:43 PM »
No Thunderbolt because our Mage is in combat, it's a Magic Missle.


Well, the Harpies are probably going to flee again (still the better chance for them to survive then facing the ICK), so our wizard probably won´t be in combat. We´ll see.

Anyways, my vote if he isn´t in combat stands:
2d Thunderbolt on the Shades
3d Comet right between the Executioners and Spear-Elves
2d Harmonic Convergence on the Demigryph fighting the Executioners (if he dies/doesn´t at least cause some wounds, what did we charge him in for?)
1d Iceshard Blizzard on the Hydra

If he is in combat:
1d Hammer of Sigmar on the Reiksguard
3d Comet right between the Executioners and Spear-Elves
2d Harmonic Convergence on the Demigryph fighting the Executioners
2d Iceshard Blizzard on the Hydra

Offline zifnab0

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2012, 01:08:49 PM »
Well, the Harpies are probably going to flee again (still the better chance for them to survive then facing the ICK), so our wizard probably won´t be in combat. We´ll see.
Charges have already been declared and resolved, the harpies didn't flee.

Offline grifter

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2012, 01:28:51 PM »
Well, the Harpies are probably going to flee again (still the better chance for them to survive then facing the ICK), so our wizard probably won´t be in combat. We´ll see.
Charges have already been declared and resolved, the harpies didn't flee.

Ah, I didn´t realize they´d already been resolved as well. All the better then, I´m getting sick of the cowardly pointy-ears constantly fleeing the wrath of Sigmar.  :biggriin:

1d Hammer of Sigmar on the Reiksguard
3d Comet right between the Executioners and Spear-Elves
2d Harmonic Convergence on the Demigryph fighting the Executioners
2d Iceshard Blizzard on the Hydra

Offline Wojownik

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2012, 01:41:47 PM »
Ah, I didn´t realize they´d already been resolved as well. All the better then, I´m getting sick of the cowardly pointy-ears constantly fleeing the wrath of Sigmar.  :biggriin:

1d Hammer of Sigmar on the Reiksguard
3d Comet right between the Executioners and Spear-Elves
2d Harmonic Convergence on the Demigryph fighting the Executioners
2d Iceshard Blizzard on the Hydra


Yea, i like that order.
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Offline Empire - Ulric

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 02:28:35 PM »
Ah, I didn´t realize they´d already been resolved as well. All the better then, I´m getting sick of the cowardly pointy-ears constantly fleeing the wrath of Sigmar.  :biggriin:

1d Hammer of Sigmar on the Reiksguard
3d Comet right between the Executioners and Spear-Elves
2d Harmonic Convergence on the Demigryph fighting the Executioners
2d Iceshard Blizzard on the Hydra


I Third this spell line-up.

Offline Noght

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 04:17:06 PM »

No need for the Hammer, wound a a 2+.  3 on Comet, 2 on Harmonic, 3 on Iceshard.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 05:34:34 PM by Noght »
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Offline Empire - Ulric

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Re: Tactical Decision Game 2.5: Die Hard
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 06:48:57 PM »

No need for the Hammer, wound a a 2+.  3 on Comet, 2 on Harmonic, 3 on Iceshard.

Normally I'd agree with you....... but my Knights seem to roll so many damd 1's. I like the sheer massive number of kills re-rolling to hit and wound can generate.