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Author Topic: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds  (Read 6339 times)

Offline Luthor

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Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« on: February 06, 2014, 06:01:29 AM »
I have another question that is bugging me, which is basically if you choose halberds for your Demigryph Knights for the +1 to strength; do you loose your +1 armour save bonus from losing your shield, since halberds are two handed weapons? Or basically can someone give me the run down of how it works?

I have nine Demigryph Knights, which I really want to do up conversion wise and such, because they're really cool I think, also.

Offline sandstorm

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 06:15:29 AM »
Yes, if you take Halberds you armour save goes from a 1+ to a 2+. Because of this, most people take lances.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 07:17:47 AM »
Note that you do not lose the shield. Only in CC, your armour save will be reduced to 2+; outside of CC, you will still benefit from the shield. 
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 04:59:15 PM »
I've foudn the halberd is more of a friendly choice. Your playing more for fun, or against a newer player just say that they have halberds and the unit is not as overpowered as it is.
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Offline Cam

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 07:09:55 PM »
Sorry for the off-topic, but I really wish GW wouldn't have given them the halberd option.
The halberd was an extremely hard weapon to master, even on foot, heavy training was necessary.
I can't, for the life of me, imagine someone using that weapon on a horse, or an oversized bird-horse.
Plus if they'd had gone with the regular knights choice of either lance/shield or great weapon/no shield, there would be more of a reason to take them. Also, it would've made 'counts-as'-Demigryphs using Knight of the White Wolf on Thinderwolves so much simpler...

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 07:22:02 PM »
Just consider it a poleaxe...and weapons like that were used mounted. So issue solved. It is an iconic Empire weapon and it is Fantasy....so lets call it MAaaaaaaagic.

Offline Cam

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 07:38:38 PM »
I can get used to the idea of a mounted halberd but I don't get why they didn't just go with the great weapon option like on regular knights.

Offline DariusZero

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 08:53:04 PM »
I can get used to the idea of a mounted halberd but I don't get why they didn't just go with the great weapon option like on regular knights.

Because the halberd blade combined with the long shaft and sharp as a razor deals even more damage per 2cm than a greatsword, so for killing monsters or tough opponents it should probably give a wielder +S2 or even +S3. In the hands of a skillfull warrior it was a weapon of instant death ora at least the wounds were too heavy for anyone to go on. One blow and you are down.
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Offline Cam

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 09:52:03 AM »
Again, I can get used to the halberd, I just wonder why GW didn't give them the option if a great weapon. Exactly like they did with their regular knights.

Offline Ad A Dglgmut

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 03:47:16 PM »
Probably because there wasn't enough room on the sprues to include great weapon arms, so it was easier to just include different tops to the weapons. 
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Offline Battlekruse

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 03:56:24 PM »
I always go for maximum protection/survival on the Demigryph Knights. Always lance/sword w/shield and never the Helbeard. That ekstra +1 save is a critical point in my opinion.

Its the Demigrif there is killing machine in close combat, the rider attacks is just a ekstra bonus if they manage to hit/wound.


Offline Ambrose

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 04:04:11 PM »
I always go for maximum protection/survival on the Demigryph Knights. Always lance/sword w/shield and never the Helbeard. That ekstra +1 save is a critical point in my opinion.

Its the Demigrif there is killing machine in close combat, the rider attacks is just a ekstra bonus if they manage to hit/wound.

Yes, I learned this after gluing my halberds onto my units.  I too prefer the 1+ armour save vs the +1 S for the rider.  Just don't have the heart to re-glue at this time.  I will do this before painting though, as I prefer actual representation of my troops.

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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 04:17:27 PM »
More often than not, this is also true:

Its the warhorse there is killing machine in close combat, the rider attacks is just a ekstra bonus if they manage to hit/wound.

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Offline MarkoV

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2014, 07:27:27 PM »
After nerfing DGK's they are on shelf. Most usless unit we have. Hitting force there is chicken, and chicken doesen't get rerolls. One bad roll and you wasted 250+ unit.

Usless, overpriced and overbragged. I would always take some other unit over them, even for CC.

AT LEAST THAT UNIT WILL GET REROLL!
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2014, 07:31:55 PM »
Well "nerfing" them still leaves them being one of the best choices in the book....and you can still cast spells on them.

Offline Ambrose

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 08:40:21 PM »
After nerfing DGK's they are on shelf. Most usless unit we have. Hitting force there is chicken, and chicken doesen't get rerolls. One bad roll and you wasted 250+ unit.

Usless, overpriced and overbragged. I would always take some other unit over them, even for CC.

AT LEAST THAT UNIT WILL GET REROLL!

You mean 'nerfing' as in giving them halberds?  What do you mean nerfing DGK?

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Offline Syn Ace

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 09:14:20 PM »
People were giving mounts hatred from warriors priests and the war altar but a couple FAQs put an end to it.
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Offline Ambrose

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2014, 10:34:27 PM »
People were giving mounts hatred from warriors priests and the war altar but a couple FAQs put an end to it.

Ah, then my DGK have not been nerfed.  I thought this was clarified with mounts a long time ago so never used hatred for any of my mounts.  I guess a really inspirational speech from a WP could motivate a mount, but none of mine have that type of charisma.   :dry:

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Offline Noght

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2014, 10:51:52 PM »
People were giving mounts hatred from warriors priests and the war altar but a couple FAQs put an end to it.

Ah, then my DGK have not been nerfed.  I thought this was clarified with mounts a long time ago so never used hatred for any of my mounts.  I guess a really inspirational speech from a WP could motivate a mount, but none of mine have that type of charisma.   :dry:

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Offline DariusZero

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2014, 10:58:39 PM »
People were giving mounts hatred from warriors priests and the war altar but a couple FAQs put an end to it.

Ah, then my DGK have not been nerfed.  I thought this was clarified with mounts a long time ago so never used hatred for any of my mounts.  I guess a really inspirational speech from a WP could motivate a mount, but none of mine have that type of charisma.   :dry:

Ambrose

Well with all the shouting and loudly praying going on around them, I guess those demigryps would certainly get very annoyed and jumpy and would gladly take it on the first victim in sight.

At least that's what my cat does. :engel:
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Offline Syn Ace

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2014, 12:25:13 AM »
People were giving mounts hatred from warriors priests and the war altar but a couple FAQs put an end to it.

Ah, then my DGK have not been nerfed.  I thought this was clarified with mounts a long time ago so never used hatred for any of my mounts.  I guess a really inspirational speech from a WP could motivate a mount, but none of mine have that type of charisma.   :dry:

Ambrose

Well with all the shouting and loudly praying going on around them, I guess those demigryps would certainly get very annoyed and jumpy and would gladly take it on the first victim in sight.

At least that's what my cat does. :engel:

Sounds like it might go poorly for the warrior priest  :happy:
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Offline MarkoV

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2014, 03:26:08 PM »
Well "nerfing" them still leaves them being one of the best choices in the book....and you can still cast spells on them.

And i don't need to cast spells to have good hiting unit anywhere else.

If you need spells to make some unit great, then that unit isn't great, right?

One bad dice roll, and your ENTIRE UNIT of DGK is wasted, broken, cought and destroyed.

And that's just one bad dice roll of chickens, riders are usless there.(Compared to proper MC units, Mournfang, SkullCrushers)

So, we have unit that is completly usless if it gets bad luck on dice, expencive, and pale in comparison with EVERY OTHER MC unit(yeah, even Tomb Kings have better MC unit).

For points invested in 4 dkg with command, and possibly some banner, you can field 12,13 KIC that will get reroll, hit more and kill more.

4dgk are 12 chicken attacks, and 5 usless attacks.
12(s5)without and 5 with reroll
On the other hand, we have 13 rerolled attacks.

I would always go for 13 rerolled attacks more than possibility that maybe i will hit. And good chance that i will completly fail and waste nice amount of points that could be invested in 2 cannons that never failed me. Failed to hit, yeah, but were a threath. Unlike DGK.
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Offline commandant

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2014, 03:44:05 PM »
In this I fear you are just wrong.   DGKs were and are one of the best units in the Empire book and arguably underpriced. 

You do know that the rider's attacks are better than the Demigryphans don't you?

Offline Ambrose

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2014, 04:34:07 PM »

And i don't need to cast spells to have good hiting unit anywhere else.

If you need spells to make some unit great, then that unit isn't great, right?

I think our whole army works well with this kind of synergy, which is a combined arms approach.  Does that mean it is necessary to win?  No, but it certainly helps and I think it is one of the main 'strategies' of our Empire army.

Quote
One bad dice roll, and your ENTIRE UNIT of DGK is wasted, broken, cought and destroyed.

This can happen for any unit, for any game, for any army.

Quote
And that's just one bad dice roll of chickens, riders are usless there.(Compared to proper MC units, Mournfang, SkullCrushers)

I disagree.  My DGK chase my buddies Mournfangs around the board, and usually I win the round of combat.

Quote
So, we have unit that is completly usless if it gets bad luck on dice, expencive, and pale in comparison with EVERY OTHER MC unit(yeah, even Tomb Kings have better MC unit).

Just disagree.  I like my DGK.  I usually take 4 with banner and musician, and they are great additions to every game I've used them.

I guess it just comes down to playing style.  On the whole, my DGK have performed better than my knights.  And I love my knights (and it is true, the horses do most of the damage).

Ambrose
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Offline MarkoV

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Re: Demigryph Knights and their Halberds
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2014, 05:52:02 PM »
In this I fear you are just wrong.   DGKs were and are one of the best units in the Empire book and arguably underpriced. 

You do know that the rider's attacks are better than the Demigryphans don't you?

underpriced compared to what?

Rider's attacks are better, yes, but that is 3,4,5 attacks that are worth something.
As i already said, number of rerolled attacks with str6 on charge is bigger on unit of KIC(Core unit, i must add), and thus much more effective.

At the end, as Ambrose said, it's all about perspective. I tend to have backline units, that support warmachines, with ST as flank guard, and each and everytime i used DGK they failed miserably. After nerf, that is.
Simply not enough attacks.
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