Topic: Da Vinci's robotic knight. Why not steampowered?

[Jomppexx]

Last night I was watching TV. There was a show about exoskeletons and robots overall, and they show an experimental exoskeleton thingy made out of titanium. Then the host of the show puts on 60+kg's of firefighter gear and is heavily weighed down, as you can imagine. Then he gets to test the titanium skeleton/robot thingy, and with the help of it, that weight that was just way too heavy, now weighs almost nothing.

Then they show, what was considered to be the first robot of the world, it was a "robot" built by Da Vinci, more precisely a mechanical knight.
Extra info about it found here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo's_robot

So I though to myself, if we have steampowered TANKS, how can we not build a steampowered knight?
Maybe like monstrous infantry, I don't really know just throwing this out here.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

If our Engineers can maintain and repair Steam Tanks for 500 years, why does the Empire have only 8 of them? There is your answer. 
That said, I think the Dwarf golem of some of the earlier editions might have been something similar.

[Jomppexx]

If our Engineers can maintain and repair Steam Tanks for 500 years, why does the Empire have only 8 of them? There is your answer. 
That said, I think the Dwarf golem of some of the earlier editions might have been something similar.

So... Our engineers are just too lazy to build some cool stuff?
Or if you're telling me they can't build new ones, then did the tanks just appear out of thin air at first?

[TastyBagel]

I didn't pick up Warhammer until 8th. But the more I learned about the fluff, the more I disliked the Demigryph Knights.

If we had to get a new obnoxious Monstrous Cavalry unit, I wish it would have instead been some kind of steamy behemoth produced by some engineers. Way more fluffy.


As for the Steam Tanks Jomppexx, if I recall, we had a genius build them up years and years ago. While our modern engineers can usually tighten down bolts and keep them running, no one has been able to duplicate the tank, so we're stuck with 8. Kinda weak...

[commandant]

A steam powered horse would be very different from a steam powered tank.

First of all steam is very very volatile and a steam powered horse would be very small.   In order to be reasonable a steam powered horse would need to take some sort of test every time it was hit to check the effects of the hit on the plumbing and blow up very often when the tubes split.

Early trains blew up or malfunctioned quite a lot.

Also where on a steam powered horse would you keep the fuel?

[zifnab0]

I don't know if you could call that a "robot."  No more than you could call a GI Joe with Realistic Karate Chop Action a robot.

The difference between the steam tank and a robot is that a steam tank is operated and controlled by a person.  He pulls levers, directs steam, and drives the vehicle around.

To get the same result from a robot you would either have to have a person controlling it or some consciousness inhabiting the armor.  If you've got to have someone control the suit of armor, you might as well just put that guy in the suit of armor.  If you have some sort of magical construct control the armor, you're a demon-summoning spawn of chaos.

[Jomppexx]

If you have some sort of magical construct control the armor, you're a demon-summoning spawn of chaos.

But maybe I a---- 
Excuse me, I think I had something stuck in my throat.

But I guess you're right, if you need someone to control it, it's easier to stick armour on a man than build a robot for that purpose.

[mottdon]

Besides, all of our Engineers are way too busy training their pigeons to fly in a straight line.  Probably a more efficient use of their time.

[NPC_Dave]

The reason we don't have robotic knights is because civil unrest is already high in the Empire and raising the unemployment rate would be unwise at this time.

[Jomppexx]

The reason we don't have robotic knights is because civil unrest is already high in the Empire and raising the unemployment rate would be unwise at this time.

I'm not saying all our troops should be replaced by mechanical monsters.
Just pointing out that they could be a way to add some punch to our otherwise "manly" armies.

[Gankom]

Maybe it'll happen during the current End Times? Then we can have our very own luddite uprising, except with knights instead of weavers.

I mean who hasn't wanted to run down a bunch of peasants with giant mechanical abomina... uh marvels?

[psychichobo]

Poor Demigryphs, getting no love...

Steam powered infantry would be a fantastic unit though I reckon. It would be nice too to get rid of that stupid 'we forgot how to build Steam tanks' bit, as by now it's just stifling creativity. Come on, it's the end times - if Nagash can come back and eat a GOD and Gilles the Uniter can come back to rule Brettonia, then some bloke in the Engineer's Guild can figure out how to build Stanks again just so we don't have to spend ages fluff justifying taking two Stanks whilst Dwarves have entire helicopter divisions.



Although, a part of me is still convinced that should Astragoth of the Chaos Dwarves ever get a new model, he'll be strapped to a great steam automaton instead of the piddly mechanical stilts of his old one. So be wary - we may be treading upon the toes of the dark sons of Hashut!

[Oxycutor]

It reflects very poorly on Empire Engineers and their intelligence if tehy can't reverse engineer a steam tank.  It's also ridiculous that they can relace parts to keep one going, but can't build a new one out of spare parts.

Does is have some kind of magical powered macguffin they can't replicate because Leonardo was a wizard engineer, like a flux capacitor?

Maybe they should make it do 2D8 movement on full steam ahead, and see what happens if you roll 88!

[Sig]

Maybe Balthazar Gelt can hide his undead dudes in armour and claim they're steam powered. Yeah.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

 

"What is that smell of decay and putrefied flesh?"
"Uh, steam and rancid gear oil. Yes, that is it: steam and rancid gear oil."

[Sig]

If we get Bretonnian allies as rumoured, the smell will be unnoticeable over that of the peasants.

[AwesomePizza]

Dystopian Legions has some.



Looks familiar, don't it?

Is trying to put Space Marines in Fantasy heresy? Let the fire decide. 

[Syn Ace]

Doesn't Warmachine use steampowered stuff?

[Baron von Klatz]

Pardon me, but if you look in the main warhammer fantasy rulebook there is a section stating that the imperial college of engineers and the dwarven engineer guild went to fighting with each other and the skies were filled with dwarven gyro-copters and airships fighting imperial flying machines and clockwork angels. So apparently instead of shoddy clock knights our engineers made flying clockwork angels, pretty impressive though if you pay attention their other achievements include things such as freeze rays and barrels that explode into lightning.

On the subject of an steam powered armor or robot, i find it goes to far into warmachine territory. If we wanted a monstrous infantry we can just armor up an ogre. On the subject of cavalry, they could of been more creative with it than demi-gryphs but i think a interesting idea is a steam armored horse(mixing together the clockwork horse and imperial knights), just in that the horse's armor enhances its strength. A interesting twist could be that the armor can be magically bolstered (with either dwarf runes or a type of magic elven shard) by nearby wizards, so a fire wizard would give you monstrous cav with fire attacks and so on.

[S.O.F]

It reflects very poorly on Empire Engineers and their intelligence if tehy can't reverse engineer a steam tank.  It's also ridiculous that they can relace parts to keep one going, but can't build a new one out of spare parts.

Does is have some kind of magical powered macguffin they can't replicate because Leonardo was a wizard engineer, like a flux capacitor?

Maybe they should make it do 2D8 movement on full steam ahead, and see what happens if you roll 88!

Well as I've explained before in other threads that my own personal construction on the fluff for the Steam tank is that certain key internal components are made of gromril which Leonardo had custom made by some sort of disgruntled Dwarf Engineer. Human metallurgy not being capable of matching that of the Dwarfs let alone gromril can't make replacements for these parts, or at least ones that last for any length of time. Now some will argue about how good friends the Dwarfs are but WHFRP 2 has a very good bit on the Imperial Gunnery School towards that the Dwarf Engineering Guild was very displeased when humans began to use gunpowder without paying fees the Guild felt it deserved for having invented the technology (the Imperial Gunnery School only came into being after an eminence payment was made to the Dwarfs for the rights to properly cast cannon, previous use had technically been 'illegal' and noted in lengthy grudges by the Guild).

Now could new Steam Tanks be made, well yes but the College of Engineers most likely can't get the Dwarf aid it would require, it is one thing to leave the Guild for the Empire over the normal petty Guild disputes on technology to wholesale give humans steam tech is something I don't believe many Dwarfs would do and with the power of the Guild and the closeness with the current Imperial government would not be allowed to happen.

Pardon me, but if you look in the main warhammer fantasy rulebook there is a section stating that the imperial college of engineers and the dwarven engineer guild went to fighting with each other and the skies were filled with dwarven gyro-copters and airships fighting imperial flying machines and clockwork angels. So apparently instead of shoddy clock knights our engineers made flying clockwork angels, pretty impressive though if you pay attention their other achievements include things such as freeze rays and barrels that explode into lightning.

Clearly the scholar charged with writing that historical note was having some sort of Chaos inspired fever dream and ideally were burned at the stake some point shortly after...or at least such has been my explanation for said passage from the moment I read it.

[Jomppexx]

Pardon me, but if you look in the main warhammer fantasy rulebook there is a section stating that the imperial college of engineers and the dwarven engineer guild went to fighting with each other and the skies were filled with dwarven gyro-copters and airships fighting imperial flying machines and clockwork angels. So apparently instead of shoddy clock knights our engineers made flying clockwork angels, pretty impressive though if you pay attention their other achievements include things such as freeze rays and barrels that explode into lightning.

On the subject of an steam powered armor or robot, i find it goes to far into warmachine territory. If we wanted a monstrous infantry we can just armor up an ogre. On the subject of cavalry, they could of been more creative with it than demi-gryphs but i think a interesting idea is a steam armored horse(mixing together the clockwork horse and imperial knights), just in that the horse's armor enhances its strength. A interesting twist could be that the armor can be magically bolstered (with either dwarf runes or a type of magic elven shard) by nearby wizards, so a fire wizard would give you monstrous cav with fire attacks and so on.

So our engineers can build flying machines and clockwork angels, but can't build a properly functioning steampowered horse... Or replicate a steam tank...

[Darknight]

I didn't pick up Warhammer until 8th. But the more I learned about the fluff, the more I disliked the Demigryph Knights.

If we had to get a new obnoxious Monstrous Cavalry unit, I wish it would have instead been some kind of steamy behemoth produced by some engineers. Way more fluffy.

Ahem . . .

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=40057.msg877677#msg877677