home

Author Topic: Questions from a village wantwit. Trolls.  (Read 26094 times)

Offline scrubber

  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Questions from a village wantwit. Trolls.
« on: March 22, 2015, 11:37:49 PM »
How Do,
Just returned to warhammer after very long break. My son [25] said had I seen or read any of the END TIMES books as they seemed to be the storm of chaos. That was the last time we really seriously played the game. Now hooked again, having spent more on books than I did on sons medical books.

So the WIP is the untold stories of the fall of Altdorf, but whilst the purchase of building material continues, could any of you help with questions.

First up can you direct me in the direction of a pitcure of Emperor Wilhelm III banner.
Second, who was the First Granmaster of the Reiksguard ?

More stupid questions to follow I'm sure.
TTFN.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 03:10:40 PM by scrubber »

Offline HoS

  • Posts: 1865
  • Beyond Beyond Thunderdrome
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2015, 01:26:17 AM »
You, sir, had me far too excited- at first. But then I saw you were not, in fact, our Lord and Savior TVI. Please refrain from claiming this title again. As far as the rest, welcome to the forums and I can't be much help.  But I can tell you that you may want to consider the name END TIMES. Very carefully. And literally. Before getting to soaked into new projects.
Gave into the WoW.

Offline Talben21

  • Posts: 1238
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2015, 02:48:38 AM »
TVI gave up because 8th ed was no longer 7th ed and the MSU tactics for Empire don't work the same anymore. When he wasn't cool any longer he just gave up instead of adapting. Typical.

As for the OP's question, there is no picture of Wilhelm III banner. I would assume it would be the same as Reikland's banner

No idea on the first Reiksmarshal.

Offline Oxycutor

  • Posts: 1860
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2015, 08:19:36 AM »
I don't know of any Wilhelm III banner, any Reikland one would probably do.

As for the first grandmaster of the Reiksguard, then it depends on which version of their 'origin' you want to use.

I've seen their descriptions say it's by the current Emperor Karl-Franz
And in another description by his ancestor Wilhelm III
At some point in time it was apparently by Magnus the Pious
Recently in the Time of Legends for Mandred, it implied they sort of had origins going a thousand years and more, but not under the same name

So it's either someone not mentioned that I can recall, or Kurth Helborg, in which case he's the first and last Grandmaster

But I think most sources say it was Wilhelm III, so I'd go with that, so you could make your own name up for it

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 09:14:32 AM »
I have asked and researched the same question for my History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time, which currently covers the early years of Wilhelm III.  Without doubt, Wilhelm III founded the Reiksguard, and, following historical examples of secular Knightly Orders, the founding monarch should also be the first Grandmaster. Note that Kurt Helborg in the official Army Books and WFRP is never referred to as Grandmaster, but as Captain of the Reiksguard. GW's website names him Grand Marshall of the Reiksguard.

In accordance with the historical examples, I would suggest that the ruling monarch is the Grandmaster, but the actual day-to-day commander is the Captain of the Reiksguard.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Oxycutor

  • Posts: 1860
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 09:25:56 AM »
Is Grand Marshall of the Empire a newer title than Reiksmarshall, which is what his old title was?   Presumably they changed it because of it's similarity to Reichsmarshall

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 09:36:59 AM »
Reikmarshall and Captain of the Reiksguard are two different functions, although it seems that the Reiksmarshall is ipso facto Captain of the Reiksguard (or vice versa). Why the website switched to Grand Marshall is unclear, but the website often gets things wrong. Perhaps it is in accordance with what the ET call him??  But that is a pile of potent fertiliser anyway.
Edit 1: The title Grand Marshal seems to be from the Black Library novels.
Edit 2: Not to be found with the description of Kurt Helborg, but as a remark with the fluff for Knightly Orders, the 6th/7th edition AB do in fact mention that "Their Grand Master is the Reiksmarshall of the Empire, commander of all the Empire forces." As it turns out, I even had that in my notes, but had completely forgotten about it. Personally, I still prefer to follow the historical precedent, as the loyalty of the knights is first to the Grand Master, and one of the main reasons monarchs founded such orders was as a means of political control.
Edit 3: An way around this could be to adopt the nomenclature of some (English) orders, where the head is called the Sovereign, and any Grand Master (if present) comes second. For instance, in the (fairly recent) Order of the Bath, Queen Elisabeth is the Sovereign, and Prince Charles the Great Master.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 04:23:52 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline S.O.F

  • Posts: 2576
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 04:36:00 PM »
Recently in the Time of Legends for Mandred, it implied they sort of had origins going a thousand years and more, but not under the same name

It is not really a direct implication it is more along the lines that for a greater part of Imperial history most great states have had a secular order to which swore fealty to the provincial liege, Saddlebacks of Wissenland per Runefang at around the turn of the second millennium or the Red Talons of Talabecland who have gone through several names but are the chief bodyguard in the era of Sigmar and the Order protecting the Elector currently per Riders of the Dead. The Reikland has had several orders tasked with such and name changes following scandals and other issues over the years, Reiksknecht at the time of Emperor Boris (per Wolf of Sigmar books) or the Reikland Guard during the Wars of the Vampire Counts (per Empire at War). But this is not to say these are the same orders, spiritual successors of one another perhaps, but each orders rules and mandates where most likely quite different.

Reiksmarshall is again an ancient title given to the chief military adviser to Reikland Count, often used when the Reikland Count was Emperor to apply to the similar position at the Imperial level of government. Fidelis's statements on the Reiksmarshall as head of the Reiksguard are correct though I am sympathetic to the historical cross over interpretation. The Reiksmarshall I think is probably more the Grand Master of the Order in the sense that this power is delegated from the Emperor/Reikland Count rather than being the true construction of the Order.
Soldier of Fortune
Crazy DOW player
Rabid Mets Fan

Offline Talben21

  • Posts: 1238
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 07:14:16 PM »
If I recall the game Warhammer: Mark of Chaos had a character that was the head of the Reiks... something. I forgot their full name, but they were clearly the forerunner for the Reiksguard (the video game took place during Magnus the Pious).

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2015, 08:14:55 PM »
Reiksmarshall Wolfgang Trenkenhoff, commander of the Reiklandguard (later called Reikswacht/guard). However, as far as I can see, the game/novel Mark of Chaos is the only source of this.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Talben21

  • Posts: 1238
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 09:51:35 PM »
Reiksmarshall Wolfgang Trenkenhoff, commander of the Reiklandguard (later called Reikswacht/guard). However, as far as I can see, the game/novel Mark of Chaos is the only source of this.

True but I seem to recall the Reiksguard being formed by Wilhelm III. It would make sense that the Reiksguard started out as a Reikland only outfit before being promoted to a unit strictly loyal to the Emperor regardless of which province he came from.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2015, 11:25:23 PM »
Without doubt, Wilhelm III founded the Reiksguard
  :icon_wink:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Syn Ace

  • Posts: 4729
  • Misinterpreting GW rules since 1991
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 01:17:58 AM »
I'm still mad that I spent $50 on that piece of garbage game. Great opening scene -- though they still screwed that up with an audio/dialogue error.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.

William Gibson

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 08:40:05 AM »
It was not that bad; but, of course, I only spent 7,50 Euro on it.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2015, 06:02:32 PM »
On a side note: there does not need to be a link between Reikland and Reiksmarshall. The German version has river Reik and Reikland, but Reichsmarschall andReichsgarde. Perhaps it is only a homonym in Reikspiel, and Reik also means Reich - as, indeed, might be indicated by the very name of Reikspiel.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline scrubber

  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 11:16:17 PM »
Good Evening.
ThAnkyou for all your replies.

HoS, not what I expected in response to my first posting. Had your been the only reply, I would not have bothered posting again. Scrubber has been a nickname since the very early 70's when I was in my mid teens, then with the help of Talben 21, I realized it's the village idiot you object to. Freshman here, not aware of the past. May I suggest some sort of personal shrine, that you can make iblations to this persona you hold as a deity. Rant over. Calm now.

Herr von Sigmaringen, you Sir should be the official Protector of Library's and Keeper of Books. Thankyou for connecting me to your other works.

Back to the question, love the name Wolfgang Trenkenhoff, but was he not connected with Magnus the Pious, before Wilhelm time. In the offical GW books of the Empire, it always says Wilhelm III was the founder of the Reiksguard as seen today. However still loving that name, so may have to adapt a mausoleum in the compound.

On page 59, Uniforms and Heraldry of the Empire, quote " The duties of the newly knighted are given by the Reiksmarshal, the Grand Master of the Order". Also who is this Captain Hans Zintler of the Reiksguard, who in my recogning has died three different ways in End Times.

Thankyou again and sorry about the rant, needed to get it off my chest.

Offline Talben21

  • Posts: 1238
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 11:38:37 PM »
Good Evening.
ThAnkyou for all your replies.

HoS, not what I expected in response to my first posting. Had your been the only reply, I would not have bothered posting again. Scrubber has been a nickname since the very early 70's when I was in my mid teens, then with the help of Talben 21, I realized it's the village idiot you object to. Freshman here, not aware of the past. May I suggest some sort of personal shrine, that you can make iblations to this persona you hold as a deity. Rant over. Calm now.

Herr von Sigmaringen, you Sir should be the official Protector of Library's and Keeper of Books. Thankyou for connecting me to your other works.

Back to the question, love the name Wolfgang Trenkenhoff, but was he not connected with Magnus the Pious, before Wilhelm time. In the offical GW books of the Empire, it always says Wilhelm III was the founder of the Reiksguard as seen today. However still loving that name, so may have to adapt a mausoleum in the compound.

On page 59, Uniforms and Heraldry of the Empire, quote " The duties of the newly knighted are given by the Reiksmarshal, the Grand Master of the Order". Also who is this Captain Hans Zintler of the Reiksguard, who in my recogning has died three different ways in End Times.

Thankyou again and sorry about the rant, needed to get it off my chest.

The Reiksguard was founded by Wilhelm III, but Warhammer Mark of Chaos makes it seem as if Reikland had a Reiklanderguard unit with the same general look to it. This would explain that it was a mulitary outfit hundreds of years old that then became the Reiksguard.

Offline scrubber

  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 11:44:30 PM »
Next question. LOOKING FOR A DRUMMER BOY.
Never liked the way young Bert was killed in "The Butchers Beast". So in End-Time it seems most things can change, so I'm bringing him back to join Brothers Talhoffer and Otto.
Thing is I can't find a figure. Seen nice conversion from LOR farmer Maggot, be not available at a sensible price.
Suggestion please.

Offline Commander Bernhardt

  • Bar Brawlers
  • Posts: 1173
  • Geweldig!
    • View Profile
President Merkin Muffley: Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

Offline HoS

  • Posts: 1865
  • Beyond Beyond Thunderdrome
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2015, 04:07:43 PM »
Good Evening.
ThAnkyou for all your replies.

HoS, not what I expected in response to my first posting. Had your been the only reply, I would not have bothered posting again. Scrubber has been a nickname since the very early 70's when I was in my mid teens, then with the help of Talben 21, I realized it's the village idiot you object to. Freshman here, not aware of the past.

I literally called him my lord and savior. If you took anything I said after that seriously than we should not interact again, you are correct.
Gave into the WoW.

Offline scrubber

  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2015, 09:44:20 PM »
Commander, how did I miss that, very nice. Think mum needs a trip out to Elemental Games this weekend. [nothing cryptic I look after my 97 year old mother.]

Offline Gneisenau

  • Posts: 6597
  • Alleged Ungulate
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2015, 11:29:31 PM »
Well done! :-)

Offline Deuce

  • Posts: 290
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2015, 12:32:12 AM »
It has been indicated in at least one book (army book or the like) that the institution which became the Reiksguard was founded by Magnus as the Reiklandguard, and later reformed as the Reiksguard by Wilhelm. The validity of that is now dubious.

The Black Plague novels feature a much older knightly order called (iirc) the Reiksknecht who fulfil a similar function with some minor differences. Apparently in an earlier draft these were actually titled the Reiksguard and this error can be seen in one of the associated short stories (Plague Doctor, I think it's called). I believe there was some editorial disagreement over what the order should be called (hence why an early edition features the modern order name) and also the Reiklandguard issue, although don't know the details.

"Reiksmarshall" is an ancient title going back to Sigmar, although may not have been continually in use. It very possibly has the same root word as "Reiksguard" but otherwise appears unrelated, even if since Wilhelm III the convention has been to appoint the Reiksguard captain as Reiksmarshall. I'm not sure if that actually is the convention though or has just been Helborg: whether a pre-Helborg captain is also Reiksmarshall probably depends as much on the imagination of the writer/editor in question as anything.

Offline scrubber

  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 09:42:31 PM »
Another question concerning Knightly Orders.
Are the knights of the inner circle considered the bodyguard/personal unit of the Grand Master?
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Swartzhelm's flag as shown on Page 41 of the original empire army book, think also referred to as Empire 4th addition army list. Ta very much.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 8702
  • Attorney-at-RAW
    • View Profile
Re: Questions from the village idiot
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2015, 04:19:45 PM »
As far as I know, the Knights of the Inner Circle as never described as the bodyguard of the Grand Master, but it is quite conceivable that they  (also) function as the GM's bodyguard.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)