Author Topic: What Do We Do Moving Forward? (Read 8973 times)

StealthKnightSteg · « **Reply #25 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:43:03 AM »

This forum is "Warhammer" and "Empire" and "Warhammer Empire".

Now read the logo of Age of Sigmar again..
I most definatly see "Warhammer" standing there in bigger letters then Age of Sigmar... or is it just me?

It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting.. Even though the new Stormhost looks Marinish.. Also 40k has still the wording Warhammer infront of it.

And while I'm one of the "likers" of WAoS I also do feel that there is much hatemongering in the current AoS threads. I don't mind it in the threads that are actually there to talk about it (who likes it and who not) because that's the topic of the thread (even though some people can be more constructive with their replies). But I don't like the same "hate" posts in the threads where we actually trying to discuss ideas about AoS.

Maybe it's too early for it's own sub forum and maybe it's not ever going to the solution as the oldhammer might loose more and more people over time and the community for the Order faction in WAoS will grow. We might even see a double up progression of threads in Elector's about both.

I might even consider using the Empire forum to keep hosting the Stormcast Eternals as the new Empire, just to keep old and new people alike that love models and gameing in the complete spectrum of the Warhammer Game on this site.

Fidelis von Sigmaringen · « **Reply #26 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:52:30 AM »

Quote from: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 07:43:03 AM

It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name.

Darknight · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:56:54 AM »

With you 100%.

StealthKnightSteg · « **Reply #28 on:** July 10, 2015, 11:03:36 AM »

Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 10, 2015, 07:52:30 AM

Quote from: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 07:43:03 AM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name and his hammer, the twin tailed comet, his history of being the Empire's ruler, his being a god for the people may that be the Old Worlds Empire or the plane of Azyr.

fixed that a little..
And also the whole storyline (now history) of the old world is still part of this new setting as from where they came from.

But that little quote from my previous post missed about all that I wanted to point out...

Midaski · « **Reply #29 on:** July 10, 2015, 11:36:04 AM »

One of the other reasons for waiting is to see what terminology GW use for 'humans'.
Indeed we have no idea what units are going to be added and whether there will be humans.

All I have heard about so far is 'Forces of Order'

The Sigmarines I have seen so far are not classed as 'Empire'.

If there is an 'Empire' classification, then maybe we could have a new board in the Empire Discussion forums. If there is no mention of the word 'Empire' with a capital 'E' and meaning what we and W-E

would take it to mean then a new board in the Miscellaneous Forums might be better.

Darknight · « **Reply #30 on:** July 10, 2015, 11:47:54 AM »

Good points. I think the general consensus, however, is that there is no longer a human "Empire" as it was before. There are the Stormcast (who are Sigmar's angels - but that's not really "Empire") and then there will be SOME kind of human faction (the "Red Slayers" have been mentioned as the possibility).

Bugman · « **Reply #31 on:** July 16, 2015, 09:59:45 PM »

We are not changing the name of the website. Final

Bugman

Fidelis von Sigmaringen · « **Reply #32 on:** July 16, 2015, 10:11:05 PM »

Quote from: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 11:03:36 AM

Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 10, 2015, 07:52:30 AM
Quote from: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 07:43:03 AM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name and his hammer, the twin tailed comet, his history of being the Empire's ruler, his being a god for the people may that be the Old Worlds Empire or the plane of Azyr.

fixed that a little..
And also the whole storyline (now history) of the old world is still part of this new setting as from where they came from.

But that little quote from my previous post missed about all that I wanted to point out...

Uh no. There is no twin tailed comet anymore - there is a twin tailed lightning bolt. His role as god is completely different. An the whole storyline of the old world is simply dead and destroyed. Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all the old world is still part of the new setting.

GamesPoet · « **Reply #33 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:44:30 AM »

Quote from: Darknight on July 09, 2015, 03:45:06 PM

It's hard to avoid the anti-AoS posts for the same reason, I guess, it's hard to avoid my posts - they are mingled in with the threads.

True.

Quote

And the argument is that this forum should remain Warhammer and Empire - but that it should also have support for other games (as it does for 40K) from GW; such as AoS.

The administrators of W-E have to the best of my knowledge already answered this. At the moment the so called AoS is really called WAoS according to GW and I don't see it as needing it's own section at this point since the Empire has been included with it. Evidence ... the Empire Warscrolls. At the same time, it seems natural that folks would talk about this as they are, just like changes form one edition to the next.

Quote

Yes, this forum is Warhammer and Empire. And it should be for people who like Warhammer and Empire. But it has also always - as long as I have been here - a place involving other games and aspects of the hobby. And there hasn't ever been, until now, a tendency for people to denigrate and attack others' hobbies and games.

Nah, it happens from time to time.

From my view it is still too early to tell how this WAoS will shake out, and I recommend patience and resilience from the various perspectives, and things will work out ok in the long run, no need to rush.

GamesPoet · « **Reply #34 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:46:39 AM »

Quote from: Midaski on July 09, 2015, 05:06:43 PM

The staff have been having ongoing discussions as I have said before. We will take out time and not be hurried, and will make any changes we feel necessary when we feel they are merited.
The prime consideration will be preserving the site and its future.

Excellent, and I concur.

GamesPoet · « **Reply #35 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:54:24 AM »

Quote from: Darknight on July 09, 2015, 05:40:42 PM

I do not see that AoS is the replacement for Warhammer in that sense - not in the sense 8th was a replacement for 7th.

I disagree.

Quote

Rather, GW have stopped supporting Warhammer and have released AoS.

They stopped supporting previous editions too.

Quote

It's perhaps a subtle distinction, but it is one I would dearly love to make ... because that means Warhammer itself is still a game, and not just "the old edition". The two games are radically different.

It doesn't strike me as being subtle at all, and in fact it is the kind of change that is creating some of the additional commotion. Seems like a dramatically different edition to me. After all, it is called Warhammer: Age of Sigmar.

GamesPoet · « **Reply #36 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:59:41 AM »

Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 16, 2015, 10:11:05 PM

Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all the old world is still part of the new setting.

Doesn't mean it isn't either.

StealthKnightSteg · « **Reply #37 on:** July 17, 2015, 06:51:09 AM »

Quote from: GamesPoet on July 17, 2015, 01:59:41 AM

Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 16, 2015, 10:11:05 PM
Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all the old world is still part of the new setting.
Doesn't mean it isn't either.

Actually Fidelis, if you should read the fluff in the new book then you will notice that the "old world", well actually it's core that mimicks the old world now and then, is very much part of the new setting as a star above the planes of Azyr where Sigmar delves his Sigmarite to make all the armour and weapons for the Stormhost.

Xathrodox86 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 17, 2015, 09:45:15 AM »

Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 16, 2015, 10:11:05 PM

Quote from: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 11:03:36 AM
Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 10, 2015, 07:52:30 AM
Quote from: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 07:43:03 AM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name and his hammer, the twin tailed comet, his history of being the Empire's ruler, his being a god for the people may that be the Old Worlds Empire or the plane of Azyr.

Uh no. There is no twin tailed comet anymore - there is a twin tailed lightning bolt. His role as god is completely different. An the whole storyline of the old world is simply dead and destroyed. Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all the old world is still part of the new setting.

On top of it all he lost his hammer...

But really, the tag line of the game "Mighty Battles in an age of unending war" really says it all. In the grim aftermath of the End Times there is only war, waged by Ground Marines.

Bruva Alfabusa said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-MzNpMD1K8
fixed that a little..
And also the whole storyline (now history) of the old world is still part of this new setting as from where they came from.

But that little quote from my previous post missed about all that I wanted to point out...

Edit: Mod Magic

Calisson · « **Reply #39 on:** July 18, 2015, 02:50:25 PM »

Interesting discussion.

Of course, people who are attached to WH8th's Empire deserve to keep having here in W-E a place to discuss.
Glad to see the pledge to provide so.

-=-=-

The real question, that I see not sufficiently addressed here, is about what to do with the new and future players of AoS.

There is a strategic decision to make.
There is a unique opportunity for Warhammer-Empire to benefit from the old Empire fluff, in particular the name of Sigmar, and attract a young generation of gamers.

Quote

In fair Sigmaron the free people of humanity gather, preserving heraldry and cultural traditions from civilisations ground beneath the weight of unceasing strife. The clamour of warlike souls fills the heavens, united in Sigmar’s name.

Will W-E position itself as the website of Sigmaron?
When the ageing population of fans of no longer supported WH8th will ultimately dwindle, the new Sigmarine-loving Kevins will have grown up and will let you retire, leaving them your dear website to develop - not necessarily to preserve unchanged, though.

Or will W-E let newcomers organize and develop elsewhere their own Warhammer-Sigmaron.net?
On W-E, staunch orthodoxes will debate about how the classic Altar of Sigmar has nothing to do with the Sigmaron Altar, and connoisseurs will explain why the noble semi-chickens are not to be mistaken with the crude Castellant's pets or mounts.
On W-S, similar debates will conclude the opposite.

Back to my strategic question:
Will W-E accept to be the recipient of AoS Sigmarite fluff?
Or will W-E deny Stormcast their Sigmar inheritage?

You need not to reply outright yes/no, a little prior debate could help.

Darknight · « **Reply #40 on:** July 30, 2015, 10:32:16 PM »

Calision; where is that quote about "fair Sigmaron" from?

Calisson · « **Reply #41 on:** July 31, 2015, 12:02:31 AM »

Quote from: Darknight on July 30, 2015, 10:32:16 PM

Calision; where is that quote about "fair Sigmaron" from?

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-the-empire-en.pdf
Jump to p.2, first paragraph.
The fact that it comes from the compendium dedicated to The Empire tells quite a lot about the intention.

Oh, by the way, the quote from same place, in http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-bretonnia-en.pdf
happens to be the very same.
This tells, too, about the intention:
Brets and Empire will be merged, the Lady will be no more, everything will be Sigmar.

More opportunity for W-E, less opportunity for The Round Table of Bretonnia, I guess.

Darknight · « **Reply #42 on:** July 31, 2015, 12:37:23 AM »

Thank you, Cal!

Well, if someone were to turn up with a classic Bret army for AoS and said "The background is purely Bretonian; I am ignoring that Sigmarion guff - these guys follow the Lady as she should be" I would be all "Cool!"

And I would encourage people to tweak the warscrolls to more perfectly reflect their vision of Bretonnia. And I would like it thereby.

GamesPoet · « **Reply #43 on:** July 31, 2015, 03:51:37 AM »

Combining Bretonia with the Empire doesn't strike me as being a good idea.

Calisson · « **Reply #44 on:** July 31, 2015, 04:09:26 AM »

Quote from: GamesPoet on July 31, 2015, 03:51:37 AM

Combining Bretonia with the Empire doesn't strike me as being a good idea.

Good or bad, that's GW's vision for the future.
It might well have the side-effect to deprive bretonnian fans from future reinforcement.

But that is not the main issue here.
The real question is whether (or when) W-E will accept the filiation betwen WH8th Sigmar and AOS's Sigmar.

The Real Rick Salamone · « **Reply #45 on:** July 31, 2015, 04:47:44 AM »

It really seems that we are at a crossroads here. During the build-up phase folks were asking lots of questions and theorizing based on the rumors. Now that AoS is here and is far worse than anyone predicted, the W-E site is a hot mess. I hope things get sorted out soon. It's gotten to be so negative. The negativity is 100% justified but still hard on the soul when you just want to talk about warhammer fantasy and the empire army that is a part of warhammer fantasy.

Midaski · « **Reply #46 on:** July 31, 2015, 07:36:40 AM »

It's not just the way we go forward, it's Soth or I finding the time to actually make all the changes.
We both happen to have full-time and more jobs.

I want AoS to disappear off to a small corner of the site as much as most, but given current workloads it won't happen until next week at the earliest.

Darknight · « **Reply #47 on:** July 31, 2015, 05:00:22 PM »

Can I suggest a naming convention for threads, then? I have been putting [AoS] in my thread titles.

If people did that, it would allow for easy search-and-~~destroy~~move when the new section came online, and also allow people who wish to avoid AoS to avoid it.

Thank you to 'Soth and Mids.

GamesPoet · « **Reply #48 on:** July 31, 2015, 10:38:40 PM »

The movement ...

... sorry couldn't help myself ... has occured.

Darknight · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2015, 11:12:59 PM »

Quote from: GamesPoet on July 31, 2015, 10:38:40 PM

The movement ...

Just so long as they did not have to reach into the bowels of the site for it.

News:

Author Topic: What Do We Do Moving Forward? (Read 8973 times)