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Author Topic: Who has played/owns Kings of War?  (Read 7823 times)

Offline The Ol Perfesser

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 08:20:03 PM »
I'm really interested in giving this system a try.  The rules look solid.  Fluff doesn't really matter to me, so I don't mind a lack of background.  I agree their miniatures leave a lot to be desired, I will certainly use my Empire figures.

Does anyone know if they have rules for the Wizard Wagons/WALTAR?  Or have people made up their own?  What about Lizardmen?  Anyone know if they are close to releasing comparable rules for them?
Cheers,
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Offline Badwolf

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 10:52:23 PM »
I have the new edition of KoW pre-ordered; it's due out this month. If anyone is interested, I could update this thread when I get the new book with any Empire units covered in the lists. I've played a few games of KoW1 and really enjoyed them. Magic, monsters and heroes are part of the game but they are not game changers; it's more about the troops  :icon_biggrin:.

What I like about KoW:
* No random charge range
* No OP magic phase
* No True LoS
(You may have guessed ... I was not an 8th ed. player  :icon_biggrin: )

I abandoned WF a few years ago but I've been missing fantasy gaming for a while and plan to start a couple of KoW armies in 10mm if RL doesn't intervene to prevent it.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 11:06:21 PM by Badwolf »

Offline knightofthelance

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 11:09:57 PM »
I'm really interested in giving this system a try.  The rules look solid.  Fluff doesn't really matter to me, so I don't mind a lack of background.  I agree their miniatures leave a lot to be desired, I will certainly use my Empire figures.

Does anyone know if they have rules for the Wizard Wagons/WALTAR?  Or have people made up their own?  What about Lizardmen?  Anyone know if they are close to releasing comparable rules for them?
Cheers,
-Perfesser

Not sure on the battle carts, but they are planning on 2 races of lizard people.

Offline Dosiere

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2015, 01:10:38 AM »
I have the new edition of KoW pre-ordered; it's due out this month. If anyone is interested, I could update this thread when I get the new book with any Empire units covered in the lists. I've played a few games of KoW1 and really enjoyed them. Magic, monsters and heroes are part of the game but they are not game changers; it's more about the troops  :icon_biggrin:.

What I like about KoW:
* No random charge range
* No OP magic phase
* No True LoS
(You may have guessed ... I was not an 8th ed. player  :icon_biggrin: )

I abandoned WF a few years ago but I've been missing fantasy gaming for a while and plan to start a couple of KoW armies in 10mm if RL doesn't intervene to prevent it.

That would be awesome if you could give an update once you got the book.  Do you know if the smaller gamer version is going to be available separately? 

The only real sticking point for me is the lack of random charge range.  A small amount of randomness would be nice, keeps it a little less predictable. It makes the movement and charging very strait forward but also a little, well, boring.  Sort of torn on it.

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2015, 01:35:10 AM »
So no random charge range? What do they do instead?

I'm fine with no random but I can no longer stand guessing games. Its unfair for like every opponent I face unless I play with someone who can guess as good as I can - then we might as well just premeasure.

Heh, even with pre-measuring in 8th edition my opponents are always measuring to their BSB when I can clearly see they are 1" in or out. Then they measure and they are 8" from their BSB.....


I will never go back to guessing. My opponents guess 20" and then I stop and tell them "dude, you gotta guess 23 and 1/2 inches". ....They are like "whuuu?". ....They measure 23 1/2 inches and its a exactly where it needs to be.


Or how about the look on my opponents face when I guess 32 and 1/4 inches. Blam, mortar right on Herero's head.    They squint one eye, get a little flustered and never want to play again.  Mumbling something about cheating on their way out.



I mean, I could play the game wearing googly glasses but c'mon, this isn't age of sigmar.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 01:39:41 AM by The Peacemaker »
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Offline Dosiere

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2015, 02:34:57 AM »
You just charge double your base movement value.  But no guessing, since you can premeasure.  Check out the videos posted earlier in the thread they're pretty good if you want to get an idea of how the game works. 

Offline knightofthelance

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 04:43:41 AM »
We've decided to fiddle around with making charge ranges slightly random. roll a d3. If it's even add it to your movement, if it's odd subtract it. It should be enough to prevent the problem we occasionally ran into in warhammer (usually in mirror matches) where both sides would sit just outside charge range an wait it out.

Offline jtrowell

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2015, 12:02:52 PM »
I'm really interested in giving this system a try.  The rules look solid.  Fluff doesn't really matter to me, so I don't mind a lack of background.  I agree their miniatures leave a lot to be desired, I will certainly use my Empire figures.

Does anyone know if they have rules for the Wizard Wagons/WALTAR?  Or have people made up their own?  What about Lizardmen?  Anyone know if they are close to releasing comparable rules for them?
Cheers,
-Perfesser

Currently there are three human armies in the game,your Empire models might be used for any of the three, depending on your theme, and if your theme overlaps and you need units from two of thoses armies, the ally rules allows it.

The armies are :

- Kingdom of Men : vanilla human list, with all kings of state troops, arquebusiers, crossbows, canons and artillery (mortar/catapult/trbuchet), and a few fantastics elements (wizards, heroes on pegasus or griffon). This list can make a very good Altorf army for exemple. Thei special rule give their inspiring heroes (generals and banner bearers) have a larger area covered than normal (9" instead of 6" for all other armies)

- Basilea : religious humans with allied angels. They lack gunpowder units and the better commanders that KoM have, but have the army wide "Iron resolve" rule that give them a slightly fanatical feel, and they have some religious themed units like penitents and priests. I would probably use a Basilean army (without angels) as a base for a Sigmarite army. My withc hunter models would probably be used as army standard with the cheap war bow and flying hammers artefacts to represent them sniping with pistol or rifle.

- League of Thordia : an alliance of humans and halfling engineers. (currently in open beta)
They get access to some exotics warmachines, including an iron beast (a less powerful but still impressive copy of the dwarven Steel behemot, it's your steam tank), halfling engineers (you can still use humans models as count-as if you want), but also have access to Aralez , a race of mythical giant dogs. Aralez come in three types, the first one is a large cavalry (demigriffin knights), then there are a few winged ones (similar to a hero on pegasus) and finally ancien winged Aralez (hero on griffon). They also have a war-altar/Luminark chariot.
This army can be used to make a Nuln detachment of exotics warmachines, or an army centerd around a knightly order with demigriffs or similar theme.

And of course you can use the ally rule to mix from several armies, the rules allows for up to 25% of your army to come from another aligned list, so you could have for exemple 1500 points from Kingdom of Men with 500 points from the League of Rhordia for your 2000 points imperial army.


Offline jtrowell

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2015, 12:04:29 PM »
We've decided to fiddle around with making charge ranges slightly random. roll a d3. If it's even add it to your movement, if it's odd subtract it. It should be enough to prevent the problem we occasionally ran into in warhammer (usually in mirror matches) where both sides would sit just outside charge range an wait it out.

At first I have been thinking of houseruling random charges too, and it would be very easy to do by using the same rules that for 8th edition, with a switfstride equivalent given to all cavalries/large cavalries and maybe a few fast units, bu having now played several games I didn't fell the need finally.

Offline jtrowell

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2015, 12:18:08 PM »
For those that would want to try Kings of War, here are some things to knows.

A) Free rules and sample army lists at http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

The rules are complete, except for two things :
- the magic artefacts are missing
- only the default "Kill!" scenario is listed (gain points for ennemy units killed), the complete rulebook include a few others (occupy the center of the table, occupy the ennemy deploiement, occupy specific static objectives without being contested, control mobile objectives that your units can transport, and a mix of kill+ objectives where controlling objectives at the end of the game give bonus points)

The armies listed are fully playable, but they include only 60~70% of the units entries.

The reason is that retailers were reticent to stock the book if the full rules where made available even before the release date, but it's expected that Mantic will later make available the complete rules, just some times after the book has been released (they did it like that for 1st edition)

B) You can get a look at the full artefacts and armies thanks to the beta spreadsheet at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/htmlview# , it's almoist unchanged in the final rulebook

Note that you can equipe one artefact on any unit exceot fir a war engine or monster, they are not limited to your heroes.
Note that Heroes on monster can take artefacts.

Only one artefact per unit, and each can only be taken once per army, but they give a great customisation potential.

Also, as artefacts are not hidden, they are often a good source of convertion ideas. For exemple I have a converted hand grenade launcher (kitbashed from the outrider kit) that I plan to put in any unit to represent the "Holy grenades" artefact, that give the unit a short ranged but powerful ranged attack.

In a similar way, a Red Wizard in a unit might represent the Diadem of Dragon-kin, an artefact that give the unit a breath attack, and as heroes cannot join units, there won't be any risk of confusion about the model.

C) A supplement with 9 additionnal minor factions armies lists (including the League of Rhordia mentionned in my previous post) is currently being beta tested, see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit?pli=1#gid=689349073 for the beta armies.

You can give feedback on those lists on mantic official forums.


Offline jtrowell

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2015, 12:25:03 PM »
For those that would want to buy the rulebook and wondering what's the difference between the softback Gamer edition and the hardback outside of the cover, the Gamers edition simply has the complete rules (including artefacts, scenarios and core armies list), but the hardback also has the fluff and has more pictures.

It's more or less like the small rulebook from Wrhammer starter boxes compared to the big Book.

Offline knightofthelance

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2015, 01:08:07 PM »
We've decided to fiddle around with making charge ranges slightly random. roll a d3. If it's even add it to your movement, if it's odd subtract it. It should be enough to prevent the problem we occasionally ran into in warhammer (usually in mirror matches) where both sides would sit just outside charge range an wait it out.

At first I have been thinking of houseruling random charges too, and it would be very easy to do by using the same rules that for 8th edition, with a switfstride equivalent given to all cavalries/large cavalries and maybe a few fast units, bu having now played several games I didn't fell the need finally.

I wouldn't go the full 8th route, as that's just to much. However we've realized we had it wrong before. It just made it easier to sit outside charge range. We now do 2d6 add the lowest for infantry, add the highest for cav.

Offline Badwolf

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2015, 01:22:51 PM »
I'm back home after a week away and I found my shiney new KoW2 book waiting for me.  :icon_biggrin:

Here is the full list of troop types for KoM available from the new book:

Kingdoms of Men:
Shield Wall (Swordsmen), Foot Guard (Foot knights or Greatswords), Pike Block, Heavy Pike Block, Spear Phalanx, Pole-arms Block (Halbardiers), Militia Mob (Free company), Berserkers (Flaggies), Bowmen, Crossbowmen, Arquebusiers (Handgunnes), Knights, Mounted Scouts, Mounted Sergeants, Charioteers, Cannon, Siege Artillery, Ballista, Beast of War, General, General on Winged Beast, Hero, Army Standard Bearer, Wizard, The Captain (special character).

Offline Hoodling

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2015, 11:53:56 PM »
How good a substitute KoW is for Warhammer probably depends on how much you love Warhammer. Someone who thinks every aspect of the game is great is unlikely to find KoW fully fills the gap. This was my take on it after a few games:

http://hoodlinghole.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/kings-of-war.html

Offline Darknight

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2015, 04:01:46 PM »
Very good article, Hoodling.
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Offline Syphon

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2015, 05:20:20 PM »
My LGS has a smattering of KoW miniatures, but to me they're too close to Oldhammer. So, no. Sorry :)
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Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2015, 05:48:45 PM »
Thanks for sharing your review,  Hoodling.  :smile2:

I liked the "it's just a flesh wound" line. If I make a committed army for KoW I'm definitely doing a black knight theme with banners saying "Tis' but a scratch!". :laugh:
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Offline Yvain

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2015, 10:01:23 PM »
How good a substitute KoW is for Warhammer probably depends on how much you love Warhammer. Someone who thinks every aspect of the game is great is unlikely to find KoW fully fills the gap. This was my take on it after a few games:

http://hoodlinghole.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/kings-of-war.html

Great Review. That is exactly my opinion from everything I have seen.

Unfortunately, it does not look like a game I am searching for. The line "loss of flavor" is my problem. KOW looks like it is a decent system, but it is kind of hollow. People often make fun of the forge the narrative line from GW, but there is a bit of truth to it. When you take the flavor out of the game it basically becomes too watered down and mechanical in my opinion. Having individual models develop their own stories or fit into an army is half the fun of throwing dice around. Especially for an army like Empire where the weak have to stand up to the super powered.

KOW is probably fun in the short term, but it does not really look like a game that will scratch the itch long run.


Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2015, 12:05:44 PM »
I'm back home after a week away and I found my shiney new KoW2 book waiting for me.  :icon_biggrin:

Here is the full list of troop types for KoM available from the new book:

Kingdoms of Men:
Shield Wall (Swordsmen), Foot Guard (Foot knights or Greatswords), Pike Block, Heavy Pike Block, Spear Phalanx, Pole-arms Block (Halbardiers), Militia Mob (Free company), Berserkers (Flaggies), Bowmen, Crossbowmen, Arquebusiers (Handgunnes), Knights, Mounted Scouts, Mounted Sergeants, Charioteers, Cannon, Siege Artillery, Ballista, Beast of War, General, General on Winged Beast, Hero, Army Standard Bearer, Wizard, The Captain (special character).
Good to learn, thank you! :::cheers:::

How good a substitute KoW is for Warhammer probably depends on how much you love Warhammer. Someone who thinks every aspect of the game is great is unlikely to find KoW fully fills the gap. This was my take on it after a few games:

http://hoodlinghole.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/kings-of-war.html
Thank you for making the effort to provide such a review, and a good read! :::cheers:::
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Offline Hoodling

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2015, 07:28:42 AM »
Thanks guys, I'm glad the review was useful.

Offline jtrowell

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Re: Who has played/owns Kings of War?
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2015, 08:14:58 AM »
One thing that is often said about KoW is the classic phrase "simple to learn, hard to master".

While it might seem simple at first glance, and is indeed less complex (bloated ?) that Warhammer, I find that it keeps perfectly the core feeling of the games while at the same time removing all that WTF moments from Warhammer, no big spell removing half your army, no death stars, no unit where the first rank is all characters, no duelling abuse prevening some models to fight, and so on.

I sometimes hear people talk about a supposed lack of customisation, because you cannot take a hero and equip him with several magic items or chose the mark of his shorts, or the fact that units comes in predefined sizes, but in reality I find that I have more choices with KoW that I ever did with Warhammer.

Why ? First because all choices are made to be viable. When you pay for a horde of 40 models, you don't pay exactly twice the cost of a 20 model regiment, because the unit come as whole the cost take into account the effect of diminishing returns and is based on the unit global potential, not the individual soldier.

In warhammer, you will find that most often ther is only one or two optimal size and formation for most units where the ratio of cost by model is the best. Who here would play in a tournament a halberdier unit smaller than a horde of 40 for exemple ? In KoW all sizes have their uses, and they are costed in proportion.

Also, KoW armies have been heavily playtested, includind open play tests by the community (some additionnal armies are even being currently beta tested now), so you should not find any unit that is clearly under or over costed, or that you feel is useless or a brainless choice. You can take almost any model in your collection and find that the unit is viable provided that you don't mismanage its potential. in short, where in Warhammer you might want to put on the shelf some of your units because their current incarnation is too weak compared to other choices, in KoW you will find that you can take any unit that you like. Of course, some units will be better depending on your planned strategy and style of gameplay, but it will be your choice.

Imagine that you have perfectly balanced for their cost helberdiers and spearmen so that choosing one over the other is purely a matter of personnal preference. If you then add a new option for swordmen that are stricly superior to the two other options because they are massively undercosted, then you didn't get 3 real choices with the new unit, you reduced your effective choices to only one outside of feel good casual games.

Now back to the customization topic : one  huge thing that is ofte overlooked with KoW is the fact that while you cannot equipe more that one artefact on the same unit, you can however give artefacts to almost any unit in the game (non hero monsters and war engines as well as special characters cannot get artefacts).

This mean that you can customise each individual unit to make it different from its base profile.

You have three different swordmen units, two of them made from the basic kit while the third one is made with beautiful Forge World models ? Just give some artefact to the forge world one and explain that it is a veteran unit.
Possible artefacts : Blessing of the gods (give the Elite rule to the unit, reroll all 1s to hit), or another one that give them increased nerve value (think "better Ld").

Also, note that by default we are supposed to play open lists, so having something to represent physicaly the artefacts make it easier for both you and your opponent to remember them.

Want to give the diadem of fire kin (give a breath attack to the unit) to your spearmen horde ? Just put a fire wizard in the unit to represent the upgrade (or in a Ogre army a Firebelly in an Ogre unit)

The flying hammer (a 5 points magic item giving a short rane one die ranged attack) on a militia because you plan to play defensively and force your opponent to come at you ? Put a witch hunter with a pistol model and say that the flying hammer attack is him sniping your ennemies.

In a similar way, I have a kitbashed engineer model with the hand grenade launcher from the outider kit that I use in my units to represent the holy grenades artefact (similar to the flying hammer, but explode like a small war engine on a hit)

Give the jar of the four winds in an arquebus unit (increase range of normal ranged attacks) and represent it with one or more models with a long rifle.

Also for use with existing Empire armies, we are spoiled for army choices, as there are several human armies that can be used depending on what aspect of the Empire you want to focus on.

Have an Altdorf army with mainly state troops, vanilla war engine like canon and mortar, and maybe a few heroes on pegasus and/or griffon ? Kindoms of Man will be your army

Have a Sigmarite army with flaggellants and other units animated with religious fervor ? A basilean army will probably be the best fit.

Have a nuln army with a Steam tank and exotic warmachines, or an army themed around a Knightly order with demigriffon knights and a luminark ? The League of Rhordia will be your army.

And of course with the ally rules you can take up to 25% of your army from another list should you want to mix options from two of those armies.

For those that don't know, the League of Rhordia is a new army list that will be published in a supplement later this year, and this is one of the armies that is currently being in open beta test (see Mantic official forums, there is a beta section), you can see the list there : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=644257362

The army represent a few city states of humans allied with Halfling, with the halfling providing competent engineers  (their iron beast (steam tank equivalent) is a lesser copy of the dwarven steel behemot), and the humans have also access to Aralez, a king of mythological giant dogs that they ride in battle, some of them Winged.

Aralez riders => demigriffon knights
Hero on winged aralez => Pegasus hero
Hero on ancien winged aralez => Hero on griffon