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Author Topic: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...  (Read 2960 times)

Offline GamesPoet

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A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« on: August 19, 2015, 01:38:32 PM »
For those keeping up with this stuff ... (even though forking out $150 is a bit much) ... here's one guy's opinion that provides some info as well ...

https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/review-quest-for-ghal-maraz/
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 01:51:10 PM by GamesPoet »
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2015, 01:44:57 PM »
me?  :ph34r:
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2015, 01:51:33 PM »
Try it again. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2015, 02:16:53 PM »
Very good review, tells most of my own feelings about the book! Though due to the campaign follow through I would not recommend GW to let the previous book go out of print, people will be missing stuff from the campaign/story.
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Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2015, 06:37:59 PM »
Thanks for the link, GamesPoet,  that's a great review! :::cheers:::

It would be unfortunate that they stop releasing the older fluff books but at least it looks like newcomers won't have to search everywhere for information as each book is released.

I'm loving all the artwork they're putting into these books, the campaign maps are magnificent. (Didn't realize that thing was a giant wyrm until he pointed it out though, my dragon hunting senses must be off. :laugh:)

Funny how Sigmar lost his hammer, I just put it down to that great betrayal that was previously mentioned. Too bad he didn't throw a sword instead, that always works. :wink:
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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 07:14:11 PM »
So do we thnk the next book is the War for the Allpoints?

Sure in Age of Sigmar it should be the war for No Points! 

:-)

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2015, 07:35:33 PM »
I must have misssed that in reading the review? :icon_confused:
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Offline Alexis

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 08:56:01 AM »
GP, thanks for the review!
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Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 09:05:59 AM »
I must have misssed that in reading the review? :icon_confused:

A Skaven walks amongst us! ::heretic::

So do we thnk the next book is the War for the Allpoints?

Sure in Age of Sigmar it should be the war for No Points! 

:-)

I see what you did there. :-D

I'm betting we'll see more of the Skaven, plague daemons and undead(Nagash has some Skaven issues I believe). So it might be "The Rot of the Realms!".

Of course there was mention of the Stormcast finding something foul in the realms of metal where the Duardin were supposed to be, so that could be impactful.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2015, 11:50:02 AM »
Ah, but skaven don't exist. :icon_wink:
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Offline Alexis

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2015, 11:55:28 AM »
Ah, but skaven don't exist. :icon_wink:

Do we have a general list of other things that don't exist, just so we are aware? Skaven, certainly.
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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2015, 12:09:34 PM »
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns there are things we do not know we don't know.
Beyond these three categories there is a fourth, the unknown known, that which we intentionally refuse to acknowledge that we know.
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Offline knightofthelance

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 02:26:28 AM »
For those keeping up with this stuff ... (even though forking out $150 is a bit much) ... here's one guy's opinion that provides some info as well ...

https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/review-quest-for-ghal-maraz/

And $74 (USD) for the non limited one. When this game fails it's not going to have anything to do with the quality of the rules. It's simply because they didn't learn anything from the decline in WFB over the last decade.

Love it or hate it (or ambivalent about it like me) it's hard to to thing of that as a reasonable price for a supplement to a game. I can't think of another miniatures based game (that's not made by GW) that charges anywhere near that for a book. Even if you feel it's worth it, it's hard to justify that price point when you consider the alternatives.

I was halfway considering at least following the story, but not when it's going to be a series of books at $75 each. Even if I thought they were likely to be worth it there are other things that can be done with that kind of money that are more worth it.

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 04:16:38 AM »
The KoW 2nd edition rulebook is $60.00 and the warmahorde books aren't exactly bargain bin priced.

Large companies need money to keep maintenance of their top of the line model sculpting machinery, that's what we're really paying for. Give them a break. :closed-eyes:

Ah, but skaven don't exist. :icon_wink:

Oh, that's right, my mistake  :happy:......that means you're a mutant! ::heretic::  Bring wood and oil!

Ah, but skaven don't exist. :icon_wink:

Do we have a general list of other things that don't exist, just so we are aware? Skaven, certainly.

Let's see:

-Tree folk and sprites don't exist, that's just Bretonnian superstition.
-chaos dwarves are merely slander spread by jealous blacksmiths.
-chaos tainted elector counts are the talk of rebels and cultists, call the witch hunters upon such talk.
-chaos tainted priests are the talk of cultists, a loyal citizen should call the witch hunters.
-daemons are the talk of insane cultists. Burn on sight.
-vampires within the corridors of nobility, like Nuln, is slander against the witch hunters for not doing their jobs.
-talk of merfolk and fishmen should be met the sound of asylum doors slamming shut.

I think that covers it.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 04:35:15 AM by Baron von Klatz »
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Offline knightofthelance

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 09:11:02 AM »
The KoW 2nd edition rulebook is $60.00 and the warmahorde books aren't exactly bargain bin priced.

Large companies need money to keep maintenance of their top of the line model sculpting machinery, that's what we're really paying for. Give them a break. :closed-eyes:

In USD it's $40, or a bit over half the cost. And that's the full fluff KoW book. There is also the option to buy the rules only version for $25 or 1/3 the cost. And both of those are full rules for the game, and all the army lists. In other words you buy one.

Quest for Ghal Maraz is one in a series, all at $74. The good part is you don't need any of them to play. I just can't see where there is that much value to be had when I compare it to other things that same $75 can buy. If it covered most of the story for the game I probably could convince myself to do it. But it's just 1 of X. And it doesn't look like X is going to be a small number.

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2015, 09:52:05 AM »
Interesting to hear about KoW dividing their book between the fluff and the rules like that.

I don't see the problem with the AoS fluff books though, like what most of what GW is selling, they are a pricey collectors item. You can do without or invest and get more out of your gaming experience. 

I also think GW is somewhat justified for making expensive fluffbooks. Wouldn't it take just one fellow reading it and posting everything online to make purchasing the book irrelevant? I never got a chance to purchase the End Times books but I know everything that happened due to tropes wiki and 1d4chan.

Novels are also a good way to keep updated with the fluff.
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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2015, 10:45:09 AM »
I should think it is the expensive price that makes people go looking for the fluff online. And, apart from the debatable quality of the novels, the fluff in the novels is not always in sync with the big books or other novels. At least, that was the case in WFB, but I do not expect it to be different in AoS.
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Offline knightofthelance

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2015, 03:55:02 PM »
I should think it is the expensive price that makes people go looking for the fluff online. And, apart from the debatable quality of the novels, the fluff in the novels is not always in sync with the big books or other novels. At least, that was the case in WFB, but I do not expect it to be different in AoS.

Exactly.

And I think my larger point has been missed. I don't think there are many who would argue that GW pricing helped sell WFB. Now they are doing the same thing again. If any of you think it's worth it, that's great by all means buy it. But if they are really trying to attract new players how are price points so high relative to the competition going to help with that? It's just one of the mistakes of the old game still here in the new one.

Offline Darknight

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2015, 05:27:20 PM »
I don't see that the price point IS that high, though. Yes, $75 for a book is a LOT of money - no argument there. But the book is totally non essential for playing the game.

You can play the game with any number of models (and many of the new models have had reasonable prices - the Goretide have been relatively inexpensive) and you get the rules for free.

In WFB, the background books were more essential to the game - a lot of them were the actual rulebooks for the army. But AoS can be played successfully without anything other than the free rules.
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Offline knightofthelance

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2015, 07:01:07 PM »
I don't see that the price point IS that high, though. Yes, $75 for a book is a LOT of money - no argument there. But the book is totally non essential for playing the game.

You can play the game with any number of models (and many of the new models have had reasonable prices - the Goretide have been relatively inexpensive) and you get the rules for free.

In WFB, the background books were more essential to the game - a lot of them were the actual rulebooks for the army. But AoS can be played successfully without anything other than the free rules.

The need isn't really the relevant point here though. One of the successful parts of WFB was the setting. If you really want to attract people to the game you'll have to attract them to the setting.  The rules alone aren't enough to attract anyone except those who already have warhammer stuff to try it out with. The 4 pages of rules aren't going to do it. The models (which aren't cheap either) aren't going to do it on their own. You need something that people are going to talk about. And charging that much for a book isn't going to encourage them to check it out and get involved in it.

Let's put it this way. Those who build massive collections didn't just do it to play the game, as they had many time more than was needed to that. Part of it is certainly the appeal of the models, so that might carry over. But another part is the setting, and the chance to build the army of ______.

AoS is an ok game. But it's far from the best on the market. If people are going to get drawn in the need something to hook them. I don't think anyone would argue that $74 for just a book is an awful lot for someone who's simply considering if it's a setting they want to try or not.

Offline Baron von Klatz

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2015, 07:22:13 PM »
Quote
. But another part is the setting, and the chance to build the army of ______.

-anything you want.

AoS gives alot of freedom in how one builds and designs an army.

I've seen a Frankenstein Orruk army (uses undead and beastmen), a awesome Myrmidia legion and Stormcasts being converted into Bretonnians. On the Dwarf forums there's one fellow making dwarves for all eight realms (something i plan to do for my knights as well, among other things).The game gives your imagination alot to work with.

The rules are simple enough to allow fan creations of their own warscrolls, scenarios and AoS expansions, like Lord Crom's interesting navy-based ideas.

Also, I don't think it's fair to compare GW to companies like Mantic. That, to me, is like saying Wal-Mart should charge less for it's items because the $0.99 stores exist. I don't think it's possible for GW to compete with those prices, especially in this economy, and remain a lucrative business.

Only time will tell though. Will AoS be scrapped? Will Mantic grow to great sizes and become as bad as GW is claimed to be? Will George RR Martin eat himself to death before finishing his series?
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Offline knightofthelance

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2015, 08:08:18 PM »
The answer to your last question is clearly yes. I'm not sure about how it's going to happen, but he is going to die before get gets around to finishing it. Much like the Wheel of Time it started out amazing, but has gotten a bit bogged down along the way.

I didn't bring up the direct comparison to mantic though. And the real issue isn't just how it compares to mantic, it's to every other game out there.

Offline Gankom

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2015, 10:00:06 PM »
Come on we all know how it's going to happen. Tyrion lannister and Jon snow will discover he's the nightmare king of the wight walkers and have to kill him, except his death will only bring oblivion as the book will remain unfinished...

Offline Alexis

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2015, 11:44:28 PM »
Whether or not you like or dislike the AoS fluff/rules, it's hard to deny the game really does afford a massive deal of flexibility when choosing an army, especially for those wanting a themed force.

With my particular Empire army, I am using the Old World setting with the new rules (because that is what is being played and I fancy it). So far I have found this a great opportunity for ideas and conversions. It reminds me of the old Empire army book with halflings, dwarfs and kislev. I eventually plan to have a unit of imperial dwarfs. My friend who plays dwarfs wants a steamtank and now he can convert up a dwarf one and it's legal.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: A Review of Quest For Ghal Maraz ...
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2015, 12:20:30 AM »
There is certainly something to be said for Alexis' view.  I do like the idea that W:AoS seems to provide a bit more flexibility in army creation, although even with WFB creativity could still work.
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