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Author Topic: Griffon vs. Pegasus  (Read 993 times)

Offline CarolineWellwater

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Griffon vs. Pegasus
« on: September 07, 2015, 06:40:37 PM »
(( Hey all,

I've really been trying to work this out (as my Elector Count is on the old-metal-model griffon... the smaller one, not the "rearing" one, and I really like the theme/symbolism of griffons) and I've been playing game after game after game with it... but to me it just seems like the Griffon isn't worth the points investment.  Small arms fire (arrows / bullets / quarrels) and low-strength melee attacks seem to wound it to quickly since it only has Toughness 5, unremarkable WS, and no armor save at all... and it doesn't seem to have enough wounds to allow it to survive much of anything.  Now, yes WS6 seems high... however, it isn't high enough against the most common WS range of 3 - 4.  So... WS3 - 5 hits the Griffon on a 4+... meaning, any large volume of attack units (which are just about any unit in the game, since most armies gravitate towards a Death Star or Stub-Bus) will get a significant number of hits against the monster... even if you get a Flank or Rear charge off with the Griffon.

On the offensive, while it has a decent number of moderate-strength attacks at a concentrated area (if you have the smaller base / smaller griffon), they just don't seem to make it feel powerful enough.  Overall... it just feels... weak... for being a "Monster".  It sort of made sense, when the Griffon was a smaller model, it shouldn't be as threatening as a Dragon or something... but now that the Griffon model is gi-gunda-normous, it seems... more like an over-inflated balloon than a real threat.  Especially when you look at other, Monsters that are at the same price range.  Even if you give it Bloodcurdling Roar, against the standard LD8+ plus BSB armies, few fail the Fear / Terror tests.

Especially when you compare it to a Pegasus.  You lose a few of Attacks, and its a bit weaker physically; however, the Pegasus counts as Monstrous Cavalry, and thus gets an Armor Save / Ward Save.  It's fairly easy to get a 2+ Armor Save / 4+ Ward Save, which'll make the Pegasus weirdly durable when compared to the Griffon.  And, it still offers enough offensive power to make it a credible threat when supported.  And, if you really wanted "Fear", you could get the semi-cheap Helm of the SkavenSlayer, and still cost less than the Griffon.  Not to mention, I'm pretty sure a Pegasus Count can join units of Demigryphs (since they're all Monstrous Cavalry).

So... any ideas on how the Griffon could be empowered a bit, so that it makes it a viable mount, but still makes the Pegasus equally as viable? I was thinking that it could get either: +1 to its Toughness (making it a bit harder to wound with Strength 4 attacks), or WS 7 (to make it feel more like a predator, and reduce the number of attacks against it), or give it +1 to Attacks (so that the Griffon on its own has a pretty good chance of taking out an entire Rank, before it uses its Thundastomp). 

What do you guys think?  How would you make the Griffon more viable a choice? ))

Offline SorenJ

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Re: Griffon vs. Pegasus
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 07:19:05 PM »
This is a well known issue, not only for Empire ridden monsters but for most other races as well.

One method, being the one I like best, is the Monsterous Beast approach where you make a combined statline for W, T and AS/Ward save, pick the highest. The monster and rider attack separately with their own WS, S and I, but only the rider can be attacked in close combat. . Just like the captain on a pegasus. This may have to be moderated slightly for armour saves.