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Author Topic: Vampires.. Solutions please  (Read 1749 times)

Offline bengo2105

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Vampires.. Solutions please
« on: November 05, 2015, 03:48:20 AM »
So I have played VC recently and have really struggled against the vampire. any tips on how to deal with one would be handy.

The Vamps I've come across generally sit in a big skeleton unit, have the fear incarnate banner (add a dice to fear test, discard highest).
They're generally a nuisance due to ASF etc.

I accepted a challenge with a witchunter and he bit the dust mighty quick, not sure he was cut out for it to be honest but that's his job right?

Offline danwhite

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Re: Vampires.. Solutions please
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 09:15:55 PM »
What is it you are using?

I have played a lot of VCs and I find the best solution is to take out the threats, hand in hand the core troops can win out over skellies/zombies for a period, so try to maximise the attacks you can put onto the vampire by combat reforms. Use artillery to take out the fast threats terrorgheists, vargheists, Black Knights etc.

Personally I focus mostly on aggressive lists and have had a lot of success with a level 4 light wizard for the buffs, but naturally if you take a light council, you can hold back and blitz your opponent on his way in before sweeping up the remnants. You are almost guaranteed the shooting advantage outside of taking an all combat list, so use that to your advantage if you can castle up in a corner and pick off the bits that will threaten you in combat, and never be afraid to try for a cheeky cannon snipe on the vampire lord, this has turned a couple of games for me, though shouldn't be used as a guaranteed tactic, just a nice bonus.

But as I say, let me know what list you are using, and I'll hopefully be able to provide better advice.

Dan

Offline VerVanRyn

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Re: Vampires.. Solutions please
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 11:01:27 AM »
Out of all the armies available I have played against the vamps the most and have had the worst luck against them.  ::heretic:: So I will just give you a quick overview of what units have experienced some degree of success against them:

1. Witch Hunter - For his MR. I gave up on trying to kill the vamp lord with him, instead naming the BSB or a necromancer as his primary quarry. They die easier and are worth more than this over-fluffed under strength hero so he can at least make up for his point cost.

2. Peg Cap - Give him a berserker sword and a dawnstone along with all possible armour upgrades and he becomes the most successful unit. He can quickly remove any flankers or redirectors and does a pretty good job at bogging down bigger nastier units, like blackcoaches or varghulfs, for a turn or two. (He once killed a varghulf and bogged a blackcoach down until the end of turn 4)

3. Halberds - 40 or more Halberds for the win. Against low BS vamp chaff, compared to elves and others, swordsmen are a waste unless you really want a parry save. Buff them with a BSB and an AL or priest and you have a unit that will practically never retreat and will be able to dish out some damage against the stronger units like graveguards. Add 2 detachments of halberds that benefit from their steadfast and other rules to bog down any flankers or be flankers themselves. If you have a very mobile army that needs a good anvil this is it. Swordsmen could possibly also do but they cost more and their only task is not dying to quickly therefore I go for the cheaper +1 Strength Halberds.

4. Helblasters - With an engineer you are bound to take something big down before a serious misfire or the battle becomes melee only.

5. Canon - do not underestimate the power of strength 10! Blackcoaches and vamp lords alike are all chaff before this monster. Out of all the games that I managed to kill the vamp lord it has always been this baby that did the trick.

6. Lore of Heavens - Though there may be other lores with better buff spells or better damage spells the Wind Blast of this lore is a good companion to any canon trying to snipe the vamp lord. One of the games I managed to win I kept on pushing the vamp lord and his unit out of charge range until round 5 when the canon finally made the killing blow. Though my entire strategy was centered on avoiding the vamp lord so I also kept on moving and did everything I could to not give it a chance at combat. Harmonic convergence has also been a life saver.

7. Priests and A Lectors vs. Generals and Caps - The senior staff do much better in close combat as they can attack more with better stats and make units harder to brake (Hold the line), but the sigmarites make the unit they are in more durable and more combat capable (Hatred and prayers). Remember this against vamp lords. We cannot go toe to toe against a vamp lord so using a combo of these two to keep units in battle and able to kill more than they should is the key. I gave up on kitting the senior staff and the sigmarites for combat and rather give them durability. Ever since I have been doing better as the buffs keep the unit going.   

Now for some tips on basic vamp things that you need to be aware of:

1. Do net let that bloodsucker get any spells of! You probably know this but I will say it anyway: Not only can he restore his lord's wounds, but he can bring entire regiments that you left for "dead" back to haunt you. It takes time, luck and good strategy to whittle down a unit of crypthorrors or graveguard and in the blink of an eye the damned magic can take all your effort and mix it with zombie manure and throw it in your face. Be especially vigilant for Van Hell's Danse Macabre. Moving an entire army 8" forward can screw the whole game for you.

2. Quite a few VC units have regen as their only defence, if you ignore their high toughness values, so use your prayers to get some flaming attacks against them.

3. They combat bleed, use this to your advantage :biggriin:. Possibly due to desperation and resignation I have stopped trying to kill the vamp lord in close combat. He is just to powerful. So I always attack the weaker models in the unit he is with to get a higher combat resolution. Killing the vamp lord through combat bleeding. This is why most smarter VC players will never field a vamp lord in zombies and only more experienced ones will risk putting him in a skellie unit. It is just to risky. If demi's were to flank said zombie or skellie unit they would mince them down and eat the vamp lord for breakfast through combat bleeding. The VC's I play against use graveguard as their vamp lord's unit as they are much more durable and can do a lot of damage.

Overall strategy tips:

As danwhite said try and whittle his army down with shooting. If you are afraid of trying to snipe the vamp lord with the canon go for his other big nasties. Blackcoaches, varghulfs, crypthorrors and terrorgheists should be high on the priority list. Removing these threats can give you that edge to super flank and rear his general's unit and kill him through combat resolution and deal with thie smaller chaff in time. If you do try to outgun him do not move the first round of combat even if you go first unless you need to move some units to counter his deployment/movements. You will want to get the most shots off before he van hells to your doorstep. Do not try and use "elite" empire units, not that I think we really have any, against his elite units. Greatswords are horrible when compared to graveguard and demis were not meant to charge terrorgheists or get near it for that matter. Use a balanced list, a cavalry heavy army may thunder over elves and a massive artillery barrage my splatter orcs and goblins, but when it comes undead we have no such advantages as low toughness or low leadership. Yes their core is made up of zombies and skelletons, but their better units are not and you can only kill so much zombies with mortars before he starts raising the unit beyond its starting value.                         

Offline bengo2105

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Re: Vampires.. Solutions please
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 10:48:49 PM »
Thanks for the advice guys, sorry I haven't replied sooner been busy with work and Christmas/NY etc

The guy I play is a fair bit more experienced than me, I'm a relative novice and he's been playing for about 10 years.. I try to use the cannon etc but I guess my dice rolls are just effected by my bad luck. My stank, helblaster and cannons have failed so many times I've lost count (and faith)

I will try to use the heavens push tactic in the next game I think that's a good idea. Keeping the damn thing at bay may be my best option.

My opponent usually uses a von Carstein, if your not familiar it means that there are no ghoulish creatures. It's heavy on skeletons and ghosts. He is magic heavy and does often risk using lvl4 on his vamp. He also runs a couple of necromancers.

He usually runs a very tough vamp semi-blender styled, what I struggle with is ethereal  as I have to focus my magic on that at first.

------

I prefer to use armies that are primarily high in body count,
I have access to pretty much the full army book

I own every Lord/hero except mounted wiz/priest only character I have is Karl franz

80 halbs
10 Swordsmen
20 free company
20 archers/huntsment
20 handguns
20 crossbows
10 Knights/ick
No spears

5outrides
5 pistoliers
3 demigryphs
2 cannons
1 mortar
No flagelents

1 of each rare

Hope this helps, thanks in advance