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Author Topic: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed  (Read 1746 times)

Offline wealdmaster

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AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« on: February 11, 2016, 05:25:24 PM »
All, we are considering to playtest Age of Sigmar and have noticed something interesting, but I could be wrong and if so please offer such critiques.

There is a characteristic called rend in AOS on the warscrolls which was the topic of some comments by someone in our group that I have copied here.

"Until I compare the Age of Sigmar (AoS) Warscrolls with the Warhammer Fantasy (WF) army books, I think that we should not print any AoS Warscroll lists. I think that the WF army lists are pretty much like the AoS Warscrolls. But, I need to compare the individual datum of each character and unit to be sure. In particular, I want to see if WF has the datum that is called "Rend" in AoS. I plan to do the comparison this afternoon. If I am right, then we can use the WF army books rather than the AoS Warscolls from the internet.

To me, AoS is WF with slightly different combat rules. AoS has the same strengths and weaknesses as WF. Personally, this is not a system that I will play. It is rule set that I had never liked. I am happy to watch others play it.

Of course, at present AoS has no published point system for creating armies. It does not need it, because one can use the WF point system. I would assume that somebody among the tens of thousands of WF players will figure this out. It took me seconds to see this after looking at the AoS Warscrolls and seeing that they are basically to WF army lists, which have points."

To me this seems a bit of an extreme statement. I'm not sure if it's right but any folks who have played AOS please comment.

Perhaps AOS is not such a departure from 8th edition afterall.

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 10:49:27 PM »
I'm not sure how I should interpret this.. what is this "datum"? and I'm not following the general line of the question or remark you want to bring over.

Now directly on the what is Rend in WHFB as you state in the subject, it's the Strength vs Armour modifier.
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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 12:55:10 AM »
I think he's saying he thinks that each AoS Warscroll sets the power of a unit at the same for WFB, and that you can build an 8th ed list using points and it will be equal.

I don't agree, some units in AoS are way better than they were before.   The Helstorm Rocket battery, and Celestial Hurricanum for example.    The Hurricanum would be worth at least  500 points if it was as good in WFB.   

And the combat mechanics in AoS may have a to hit and to wound, but neither are modified by the enemy you are attacking, unless they have special rules, and that includes shooting,  where in WFB, they are modified by the enemy.

The combat phase most fundamentally changes the game, you can in effect have Lizardmen with Always Strikes First and Elves with Always Strikes Last, depending on the order you activate units.   

The games are very different, in general, I can see why he might think they are more alike goblins are still worse than human, and humans are worse than ogres, but it's not as clear cut any more,   a unit is equally effective against anything with the same save value,  it's just a matter of how many wounds the target has, that determines how many models are killed

Offline Oxycutor

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Re: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 12:57:11 AM »
For a more straight up explanation of rend to WFB, t h ink of it as a rating of Armour Piercing.    But not necessarily taking Strength into account.

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Offline Oxycutor

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Re: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 01:22:51 AM »
Having said that, I'd bet using 8th ed army lists would be fairly even, more so than not.   But there would always be those people who would be ultra competitive, and go for the most points effective stuff.

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 07:37:06 AM »
I think you might be right with the interpretation. And I agree.

Having said that, I'd bet using 8th ed army lists would be fairly even, more so than not.   But there would always be those people who would be ultra competitive, and go for the most points effective stuff.

As for this. I have tried together with my (ex)brother-in-law to reform the Sigmar's Blood campaign to fit the style of AoS. Now these units were pretty even compared in 8th. But I felt Empire surely lacking in AoS rule setting compared to the Undead units. How we played it we might need some more tweaking to balance it out.
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Offline undivided.capital

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Re: AOS "rend" and how it's different from 8th ed
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 12:46:41 AM »
I don't really agree. Mostly because of the amount of stuff that is ignored off the warscroll in that way of doing it. But I mean I have the same problem with using wounds to "balance" because it only takes one attribute off the WS. Its much better to take into account everything and use one of the point algorithms in my opinion.
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