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Author Topic: The 9th Age?  (Read 21938 times)

Offline Athiuen

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The 9th Age?
« on: February 13, 2016, 03:35:58 AM »
Hey guys,

Have been lurking a little here and there for the past year and a half but haven't been able to play a game in that time due to moving for work and the closest gaming group being over an hour away.

I see that GW has gone forward with Age of Sigmar? but it seems a large group have also split to The 9th Age? Is this correct?

I was reading through The 9th Age rules and they seem pretty great. 

I suppose I'm just trying to get a feel for what's happening (and has happened in the last year and half) with Warhammer these days without starting a shit slinging thread.
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Offline The Real Rick Salamone

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 03:40:55 AM »
Many of us are still playing 8th Edition. It still exists and is still very fun.


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Offline Minsc

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 07:00:22 PM »
The problem with staying with 8th is that it's a game that's stopped evolving, and where the general community isn't big enough to change/update the rules. You can always make houserules, but that's about it.

9th Age is very much alive and evolving, and overall (imo) much better than 8th Ed.

A comparison would be comparing the EEFL-forum with the 9th Age forum.
EEFL: 110 members online during the last 24 hours.
9th Age: 1463 members online during the last 24 hours.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 07:03:29 PM by Minsc »

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 10:56:14 PM »
Both struggle with the same problem (9th Age more than EEFL): they cannot ever be "official."
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Offline Minsc

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2016, 11:49:44 PM »
Both struggle with the same problem (9th Age more than EEFL): they cannot ever be "official."

Why is that a problem?

Offline The Real Rick Salamone

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 12:21:03 AM »
Hmmm. I'm going to try my best to articulate my thoughts, please excuse me guys.

I've been playing Warhammer for close to 20 years, I love it. I've been a member of this forum since maybe 2004. I'd like to point out an interesting thing that happened today at Warhammer-Empire. (Consider the ongoing healthy discussion about the future of W-E).

I expressed love for Warhammer on this Warhammer Empire forum. I was then discredited for LOVING WARHAMMER.

This, my friends, is exactly why the hobby, the game, and this forum are on life support. Those of us that express love for Warhammer are reviled for not supporting something that is not Warhammer. I'm sick over this...much like I was last summer when I saw everyone leave before giving their beloved game any chance.


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Offline Padre

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Play on!
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 12:29:14 AM »
Just keep playing and don't worry what others do. I intend to carry on with my campaign as long as my players are happy to. If they stopped playing Warhammer (and I only ask for a game or two from them per year!) I'd just look for other players, or another way to proceed. If people want to they can say I am reenacting the Warhammer hobby!
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Offline KevinC

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 01:44:31 AM »

A comparison would be comparing the EEFL-forum with the 9th Age forum.
EEFL: 110 members online during the last 24 hours.
9th Age: 1463 members online during the last 24 hours.

I don't understand the comparison here or why Minsc it trying to further divide the rank & flank gaming community.

To defend EEFL from Minsc shallow attack, it is more accurate to say that the EEFL forum has a daily participation rate of 65%, while the 9th Age has a 40% rate (at best).

I am not trying to discredit the 9th Age, I know there are some really dedicated players trying to make it work. And that's great that they have embarked on such an ambitious project. However, the 9th Age is NOT Warhammer and it never will be.

I've played Warhammer since the late '80s and not only is it my favorite wargame, but the 8th edition (with all things considered) is the best edition, by far. Just as the Oldhammer Community keeps 3rd edition WFB alive, EEFL will continue to play and support the 8th edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

I don't know what will eventually come of the 9th Age, but I can promise you that EEFL will be alive and well for years to come - for each day we become a stronger (and larger) community, which I'm proud to be apart of.

I invite everyone to celebrate thee Warhammer Fantasy Battles game over at the Eighth Edition For Life Warhammer Forum.
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 06:23:41 AM »
Or realise that everyone has their own truth and respect that. Play 8th, 9th, KoW, frost grave or Mordheim, whatever you and your consensual partner agree to. But above all, have fun and let others have fun....

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Offline Athiuen

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 09:34:59 AM »
So what I'm hearing is that we're a community that is now quite divided over which ruleset to use and have split into groups supporting different rule sets.  We all still love warhammer but we express it in different ways.  It's the Reformation all over again but warhammer this time.

I suppose until I find a group I will continue to lurk and observe a little of each one. 
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 09:38:52 AM »
Both struggle with the same problem (9th Age more than EEFL): they cannot ever be "official."

Why is that a problem?

It is not a problem, if you are just playing friends. It is a problem for the wider community, which, as Athiuen says "is now quite divided over which ruleset to use and have split into groups supporting different rule sets," precisely because none of these rulesets can claim an official status.
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 10:11:58 AM »
The real problem that is coming from this is that people are moving away from here to just be in the generic forums for 9th, EEFL or what ever. That is why we are trying to get the subfactions of all back here again to be able to talk about Empire in whatever form it will exist.

I rather see a movement of all people talk over stuff from EEFL and 9th age here and then refer for general rules to their respective forums instead of getting people to move to there!
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Offline Minsc

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 11:00:13 AM »
I expressed love for Warhammer on this Warhammer Empire forum. I was then discredited for LOVING WARHAMMER.

I hope you're not referring to my post?
Because if you do, then either you gravely misunderstood me, or perhaps I just expressed myself poorly.

I don't understand the comparison here or why Minsc it trying to further divide the rank & flank gaming community.

What makes you think I'm trying to divide the rank&flank gaming community?

I'm just pointing out that as it currently stands, the 9th Age community is bigger than the 8th Ed./EEFL community. This isn't slander, it's just a fact. This doesn't mean that it will always be that way however.
I also pointed out why I think it's a good thing to be a large community when supporting an unofficial game, and why I think 9th Age will have an easier time to keep attracting new/old players.

If this somehow offends someone, then so be it.  :icon_rolleyes:

I'll admit that I've not read the EEFL-forum that much, but how do you guys plan on updating the armybooks? Or will you just keep playing with the 8th Ed. ones as GW left them?

With that said, I hope that both 9th Age and EEFL keeps growing.

It is not a problem, if you are just playing friends. It is a problem for the wider community, which, as Athiuen says "is now quite divided over which ruleset to use and have split into groups supporting different rule sets," precisely because none of these rulesets can claim an official status.

Bah, official status is overrated anyway.  :happy:

If you like 9th Age, play 9th Age and discuss 9th Age with the 9th Age community.

If you like 8th Ed, play 8th Ed. and discuss 8th Ed. with the EEFL community.

If you like KoW, play KoW...etc etc.

Regardless, you should keep hanging out here on warhammer-empire!

If your gaming group is divided and can't make up it's mind wheter you want to play one system or the other, you need to sit down like adults and come to terms - or just keep playing whatever you want, even if it means that you have a divided gaminggroup.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 11:23:10 AM by Minsc »

Offline KevinC

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2016, 04:28:31 PM »
The real problem that is coming from this is that people are moving away from here to just be in the generic forums for 9th, EEFL or what ever. That is why we are trying to get the subfactions of all back here again to be able to talk about Empire in whatever form it will exist.

I rather see a movement of all people talk over stuff from EEFL and 9th age here and then refer for general rules to their respective forums instead of getting people to move to there!

StealthKing, the problem on this forum and pretty much ALL the WFB forums IS the divide in game systems. Not that there is anything wrong with people playing different games. For before AOS, Warhammer was thee ranks & flanks fantasy war-game. This forum was the premiere forum for all things Empire, in particular tactics. Remember the days of the Village_idiot?  Having said that, I've always liked this forum, I think it is the best Warhammer specific "race" forum and will continue to visit here.

The way I see it, AOS caused a large portion of WFB players to move to Kings of War (or other games), then another large faction went of to create their own game (9th Age). I respect that everyone should play whatever games they want, but I'm really shocked how so many people just automatically abandoned Warhammer so quickly.

The point of EEFL is that we love 8th edition Warhammer, it's the best edition, and so much fun to play. We created the forum because all the other WFB forums are either completely dead or have turned to AOS discussion.

I love the WFB history and background, when I write an army list I like to flip through my hard cover army book and maybe stop to look at some cool artwork or read a story. Picking up the huge 8th edition Warhammer rulebook to just flip through every now and then is such a fun thing to do the book is amazing. I'll can't get that from the 9th Age.



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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 10:13:43 PM »
So discuss the broad spectrum of 8th within eefl and be here for 8th empire. As here will be the best of them. But also for 9th empire of sonnsthal, free people (and stormcast) for AoS, everything Human
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Offline KevinC

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2016, 11:15:42 PM »
So discuss the broad spectrum of 8th within eefl and be here for 8th empire. As here will be the best of them. But also for 9th empire of sonnsthal, free people (and stormcast) for AoS, everything Human

I completely agree!
"These princes try to tell me how to wage war, and seek to advise me on how best to rule my people. They are dolts and dullards, and it is a wonder that with such cretinous commanders your armies ever held against mine."
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2016, 09:31:10 AM »
I'm part of a Youtube community that was fairly focused on the hobby side of the games. After the AoS debacle there was a light in the darkness in that many people started trying out ANY game. And low and behold there are a ton out there!
Most are not block infantry deep strategy. They are all typically smaller scale but they are fun. And they are easy enough to learn and slightly different that you can keep all the rules in your head.

I'm part of the EEFL. I am also part of 9th age.

Why do I play 8th edition still? Because I still got the rules memorized. I still got the books and the magic cards and all the equipment. I still got armies that are set up to play 8th. And was not really a tourny guy but I am a strategy guy so I very much enjoyed that aspect of it.  And its only been like 7 months. 
When 9th age is finally out of beta then my 8th edition might take a back seat.

Some other game systems you may like are:
Kings of War - its great for the times when you don't feel like having to remove mini after mini and just want to push the blocks around. At first glance it looks like it has less rules and options but when you get deeper into it you realize that its really just the junk options that are not that that no one ever took anyway.
And its basically fully compatible with warhammer fantasy armies.

8th edition - tried and true, still fun, still got all the materials, still fresh in the mind. But without updates it will slowly takes its place in history.

9th age - just like 8th edition but balanced. Its supported by a team of writers and model companies are jumping on board to produce some models for it as well. Its an evolving game that will be good for years. It really is 9th edition warhammer. Due to copyright though many names of stuff had to be changed.

Skirmish games:

Age of Simgar:  very easy, not many rules, throw a few models down and have a game in 45min. Great to play with younger kids. The demographic for this game is shaping up to be young kids and their dads.

You got Mordhiem. You also got Age of Sigmar: mordhiem which is pretty fun.

Fortgrave - a game where you just grab 5-10 fantasy miniatures from anywhere and play.
Malifaux
Warmachine
Infinity
Destopian Wars - WWI naval battles with a fantasy twsit
X-Wing - star wars stuff.

Lots of tabletop games to chose from.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2016, 11:06:28 AM »
X-Wing - star wars stuff.
They also do Star Wars Armada - which I think looks awesome, and would be the scale I am after, but X-Wing has taken off more around here.

8th edition Warhammer, it's the best edition, and so much fun to play.

Not everyone agrees it is the best edition, nor that it is the most fun to play. Which is why there are so many alternatives shooting up. Saying it is the best, will get people in an argumentative mood. Rather, say that it is the edition you prefer.
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Offline Minsc

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2016, 11:51:06 AM »
I also recommend Firestorm Armada if you're into space miniature games.

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2016, 12:19:46 PM »
Both struggle with the same problem (9th Age more than EEFL): they cannot ever be "official."

I would also add that 8th edition was always very poorly balanced, even when WFB was still "alive". I suggest sticking to 6th, it's the most down-to-earth edition out there.
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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2016, 12:50:13 PM »
Both struggle with the same problem (9th Age more than EEFL): they cannot ever be "official."

I would also add that 8th edition was always very poorly balanced, even when WFB was still "alive". I suggest sticking to 6th, it's the most down-to-earth edition out there.

I don't know really I think both editions suffered from a imbalances. The 8th was that of internal balance of army books, making a great number of units irrelevant. Largely I think this was due to the abominable external balance that many of the later 7th edition books suffered from. The 6th was fine when contained within a single army book but certainly suffered from poor external balance after the VC and Skaven books were released in addition to the incredibly underpowered Elf books which I always attribute to the leak of the DE playtest list and the subsequent crack down. 
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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2016, 12:55:08 PM »
Both struggle with the same problem (9th Age more than EEFL): they cannot ever be "official."

I would also add that 8th edition was always very poorly balanced, even when WFB was still "alive". I suggest sticking to 6th, it's the most down-to-earth edition out there.

I don't know really I think both editions suffered from a imbalances. The 8th was that of internal balance of army books, making a great number of units irrelevant. Largely I think this was due to the abominable external balance that many of the later 7th edition books suffered from. The 6th was fine when contained within a single army book but certainly suffered from poor external balance after the VC and Skaven books were released in addition to the incredibly underpowered Elf books which I always attribute to the leak of the DE playtest list and the subsequent crack down.

Huh, didn't knew about that leak. It's true that the Elves were very weak in 6th. I was still playing HE back then. Of course, later they had to turn all of them up to eleven, when the 8th came out...

Skaven were tough, that's true. Altough I still think that overall balance was best in the times of 6th. 7th was the beginning of the end, and 8th was the end.
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Offline Minsc

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 01:24:25 PM »
Huh, didn't knew about that leak. It's true that the Elves were very weak in 6th. I was still playing HE back then. Of course, later they had to turn all of them up to eleven, when the 8th came out...

7th actually. ;)
HE got armywide ASF and DE got armywide ASF and broken magic items (sacrifical dagger and reverse wardsave to name a few.)
They where both on top of the foodchain during the later half of 7th.

In my opinion:

6th had decent core rules and decent internal and external balance - from what I can remember. When I got into WFB 7th was just around the corner, so I didn't get that many games under my belt before the transition to 7th,  not to mention that it's what...10 years ago now?

7th had good core rules, and was good (relatively) internally and externally for the first half of it's existence.
Then all of a sudden, the powercreep took to new levels with the introduction of the riddicously OP Daemons of Chaos, and many of the AB's that came after followed suit: VC, DE and HE to name a few. After that 7th became a mess of unbalance.

8th had...decent core rules, but I never really liked them that much. 8th quickly turned into a edition of Hordes and OP magic, which was one of the reasons I never played 8th that much after the first months of release. I liked the fact that infantry was viable again and not just a block of static CR, but the game encouraged hordes way to much. The internal balance in the 8th Ed. armybooks was also laughably bad in some of the AB's, like GW stopped trying. When 8th was launched in 2010, I owned 5 armies: High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Empire and Warriors of Chaos. When AoS was launched in 2015, only two of theese remained, namely Wood Elves and Empire. Dumb as I was, I also sold of theese two after AoS was launched (I don't like AoS, let's just end it at that), so now when 9th got me back into the hobby I had to restart all over with Empire and Warriors of Chaos....

9th Age (it's not Warhammer in name, but it's essentially 9th Ed.) is a continuation of 8th Ed, and has led to the game being in a better state of internal and external balance than it has ever been in since I started. For the first time more or less every unit inside the different AB's is viable and serves a purpose, and all armies have a good chance of beating eachother, assuming equally skilled generals.
Apart from this, 9th Age has fixed alot of (but not all) the things I disliked about 8th Ed - magic is still strong but it's not OP. Hordes are still a thing, but they're rarer due to alot of unit's having a max cap-size that discourages hordes (like 30 or 40 for instance.), middle-tier monsters like Manticores, Griffons and the like are finally viable, and cannons aren't laser-guided anymore.
Granted, it's not perfect, but it's a damn good game and an improvement over 8th in most regards. It's also a living rulebook, where things that are considered too good/bad will get attention, and where new units, even armybooks (like DoW) can be seen on the horizon.
This is one of the main reasons why my gaming-group has moved on from 8th (not to mention 7th or 6th) - if you consider 8th the best edition, then great, more power to you - play it. But at the end of the day, it's a edition in total standstill, where the AB's, units and rules are where GW left them, and you better like it, because it won't change.

A World of Warcraft-methaphor would be abit like asking Blizzard to reinstate vanilla servers. Many "veterans" would love to play vanilla again, but after awhile most of them would probably get bored and move on, since there's only soo much you can do before the game is "completed" without a constant input of updates and new content. :icon_frown:

And please, don't see this as me bashing/hating on 8th - see this as me explaining why I and my gaminggroup have moved on from 8th.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 01:32:22 PM by Minsc »

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2016, 01:37:47 PM »
8th had abyssmal magic system and the horde things were horrible, especially when you've had to glue and paint 50+ guys with sole reason for them to be just a tarpit for some monster or hard hitting unit. In older editions a well kitted-out unit of Halberdiers could be considered a force all of its own. In 8th it was just a streetbump for those Khorne Bloodcrushers.

I know that Elves got universal ASF in 7th and I agree that DE were top of the top back then, but 8th made things worse and turned ALL Elves into a force of destruction. Best magic, best fighters, best magical items. Not to mention back to the times of herohammer, which were never good. Remember 5th edition Chaos or Undead and their characters? Yeah...
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Offline KevinC

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Re: The 9th Age?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2016, 03:21:37 PM »
When, I say 8th edition is the best, I'm also saying all things considered.

Since several people in this thread played 6 and 7, I want to address them and show contrasts with 8th:

- 6th edition armies books were terrible in terms of background and dropping lots of units from the previous editions (i.e. Empire Steam Tanks, the War Alter, Halflings, Forest Goblin Spider Riders, most of the classic special characters, etc.). 7th edition books were better. 8th edition books - awesome! This part of the hobby is extremely important me, hence I can't get excited about the 9th Age.

- The high powered spells in 8th really are not so bad. What was bad? The way you generated power/dispel dice in 6th and 7th. Players could bring ultra-heavy magic with loads of pre-determined power dice. It also forced players to spend a lot of points on magic defense.

- Vampire and Daemons were totally crazy in 7th, and Vampire and Skaven were extremely good in 6th. The outnumbered/auto flee from Fear was also super powerful. Dark Elves and High Elves extremely underpowered in 6th. The only book I'm disappointed with in 8th is Tomb Kings, a few tweaks though and they are back to par (not to mention Undead Legions fix them).

- Lots of ways to build stupid armies in 6 & 7, entire legions of march blockers and shooters which made the game zero fun to play. The Dark Rider army, the skirmishing skink army, etc. In 8th these armies can be made but they are not as effected, they are balanced.

- Perhaps one of the best rules of 8th over the other editions: is that you can still march if you pass a LD test first. Auto march blocking was the most annoying thing in previous editions. "I'll place my scouts and flyers to ensure half of your army cannot move properly, HAHAHA!"

- The 8th edition random charge distance actually prevents a lot of non-sense from happening.

- 8th edition has a large amount of supplements in addition to the army books (which I'm a huge fan of): Storm of Magic (one of my all-time fav supplements, tons of fun), Triumph & Treachery, the series of 5 End Times books, Blood in the Badlands, 2 huge books from Forge World, including the long awaited return of Chaos Dwarfs. 6th edition has the Storm of Chaos (which was very cool), and 7th edition - nothing?

- 8th editon, more ranks = steadfast, finally infantry are good! Many tournament players didn't like this because they had to use rank & file now. No more all skirmisher armies!

I'm sure there is much more, but these are things that immediately stick out in my mind.


"These princes try to tell me how to wage war, and seek to advise me on how best to rule my people. They are dolts and dullards, and it is a wonder that with such cretinous commanders your armies ever held against mine."
Malekith, Phoenix King of Ulthuan