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Kings of War
« on: April 05, 2016, 03:03:09 PM »
Anyone playing Kings of War? I took it up this year and I've really enjoyed the two games I'v eplayed. I also enjoy being able to use my Empire models again!

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 06:29:50 PM »
Haven't yet, but herere some threads from the Counts Tavern area ...

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,51335.0.html

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,51448.0.html

http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php/topic,51444.0.html

I've purchased "Lion Rampant" instead, although not sure if I'll be using my empire figures or not with it.
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Offline jtrowell

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 12:14:22 PM »
Hi, another KoW player here.  ^_^

I'm so glad to have found a new home for my Empire models, and my skavens, and my dark elves, and my Tomb kings, and my Ogres. ;)

Just in case you didn't know already, note that the Uncharted Empire supplement add many other armies to the game, including the League of Rhordia (human and halfling, with exotic war engines, cover most of the Empire options not already present in the Kingdoms of Man and Basilean armies) and the Brotherhood (Bretonia)

Also I strongly recommande http://kow2.easyarmy.com to make your army lists, it include all complete armies with all options, including magic artefacts and the special unique heroes from the Destiny of Kings campaign supplement.

If you have any model that you are not sure what to do with, don't hesitate to ask, there is always a way to find a use for almost any model, at worst using some allid unit or an artefact to modify an existing unit.



Offline King

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2016, 07:33:13 AM »
I play KOW too and haven't looked back to what is currently happening at GW (AOS) for the last year and a half or so.  I have to say I am very happy with the system and I also use it to play historicals with it too.  The only gripe is that I did not find a way to fit in my warrior priests other than as generic heroes but other than that, I am happy.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2016, 07:53:30 AM »
I've only tried KoW out, but find it a solid game system. It's concentrated on blocks, doesn't have a million special rules, and plays fast.

Do you have any suggestions for KoM tactica (I use KoM for my Empire models)?
- proportion of horde/regiment/troop, and ways to deploy and use them
- cavalry tactics
- counters to flying monsters (I find them really powerful in the game)

I'm asking, because I find myself struggling with all of these.

On another note, how do you find the terrain & building rules for KoW?
- What's a good number of terrain pieces?
- Do you find buildings a tactical element, or a decorative nuisance?  :-)

Mantic talked about a tournament fix for the lists in March. Did it come out?

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Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2016, 02:43:19 AM »
Do you have any suggestions for KoM tactica (I use KoM for my Empire models)?
- proportion of horde/regiment/troop, and ways to deploy and use them
- cavalry tactics
- counters to flying monsters (I find them really powerful in the game)


I'm probably not the best for answers since I've only had a handful of games -- and none were with KoM, though I am looking at using them (for Empire) next. But here are some general and incomplete comments sort of addressing some of that anyway. :wink:

It seems to me that the horde/regiment/troop balance really depends on the particular units and how you want to use them. Hordes seem to be the way to go for the main battle line because they occupy the same frontage as two troops/regiments, can usually put out the same number of attacks, and have a higher NE than regiments -- at fewer points. Although the NE isn't as much as two individual regiments, in comparison one regiment in a pair will likely fold before a horde will start Wavering. Still, it depends on the cost and army composition. When I played Undead, I did use a couple of Troops of Soul Reaver infantry, but that was because they're expenseive & powerful, and they were intended to be small flanking units. Most troops seem pretty fragile, though. Now that I'm looking at KoM, I'm even looking at making my knights regiments rather than troops (especially given the number of extra attacks!)

A tactic that I used in KoW, which may be more common in historicals, but I remember when people used to use it more in fantasy, is to deploy in depth. Keeping a few units in a second "reserve" line in KoW has a couple of advantages. One big one is that any flyer wanting to hop over your first line to set up a rear charge will be putting themselves in front of your second line. If they try to work around your second line, you will have plenty of time to react to that. Two characteristics of KoW are the speed of play and the importance of attacking flanks/rear. So if you lose a unit in your formation, it opens you up to catastrophy. Having a a few back up units is a good way to plug those holes. Or discourage outflanking maneuvers. I used infantry, but I could see where cavalry might be useful due to the extra speed. Beyond that, I haven't developed much in the way of good thoughts on cavalry yet. They were obviously pretty good on the flanks for me -- provided I could press my advantage with them.




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Offline Reiksguard 1485

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2016, 05:36:45 PM »
Interesting to read your thoughts.

I'm looking at Kings of War following the demise of Warhammer, and it looks like a neat system (but then, it is Alessio Cavatore).

How do you all find the magic rules?

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2016, 09:04:56 PM »
Generic. Limited. I like the concept, but it's not the most interesting execution.

There are a limited number of spells... a couple of magic missiles (one weaker, one stronger,) a spell to give undead and other non-living "shamblers" potential extra movement, healing, +1 to hit buff, one to move enemy units with a wind blast... Magic happens in the missile phase, as an alternative for that model/unit shooting. Spell success is handled like missile fire - magic missles roll a given number of attack dice, others measure success by how many "hits" the caster rolls. There is not counter-magic.

So maybe it's got similar scale of game impact to the various Empire wagons -- definitely some impact on the game, but not going to remove units instantly or turn them into deathstars? (Maybe someone else can weigh in on whether that is a good comparison?)

There are magic items that replicate just about every spell or special rule, though some may only be used on certain types of units/characters, and each can only be used once.


Offline jtrowell

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016, 08:17:48 AM »
I play KOW too and haven't looked back to what is currently happening at GW (AOS) for the last year and a half or so.  I have to say I am very happy with the system and I also use it to play historicals with it too.  The only gripe is that I did not find a way to fit in my warrior priests other than as generic heroes but other than that, I am happy.

If you want to play a sigmarite army, or any kind of fanatic/religious human faction, then basilea  is the obvious choice, eitheir as your main list with maybe some KoM or League of Rhordia allies, or themselves as a small allied detachment.

Warrior priests can then be represented by priests (note the CS(1) marking them as somewhat fighter despite having only one attack), or if you want your priests more in the warrior categorie, as high paladins (heal slightly less powerful but much better combat profile)

Note that Normal priests inspire penitents (flaggellants), and high paladins (arch-lector or powerful priests like luthor huss or maybe Valten) have a global inspiring.

A pure basilea army (without the angels) would make a fairly good religious baron going on a withc hunt with the help of some warrior priest/withc hunters. And if you want some angles, then the winged sigmarines from the AoS starter box will be perfect.

If you prefet use the KoM with some noce warrior priest that you have without needed to go the allies route, then another easy and perfect way to field a warrior priest is by giving the healing charm artefact to any appropriate hero, usually a simple army standard will do, but a general can also be great is you want the fighting abilities. A hero might also be another option, but he lacks inspiring, and for a priest this seems like something that you should have.

Also, some additionnal ideas for a heavily religious force :
- army standard or hero with war bow of kaba : witch hunter with rifle
- army standard or hero with flying hammer : witch hunter with pistol
(take the "Hero" hero, the one with a fighting profile and no inspiring if you want to get close, or the army standard if you want a rabble rouser that snipe)

About magic, I find it very good, the different spells already cover most spells archetypes :
- long range precision shooting (lightning bolt)
- short range area damage (fireball)
- healing/raising the deads (heal)
- moving your own units (surge)
- moving ennemy units (wind blast)
- buffing your offensive power (bane chant)

Also note that each spells has a level that is the number of dice that you use when casting them, so an elven wizard with lightning bolt(5) or fireball(10) will feel much more powerful than a goblin caster with lightning bolt (3), and not all casters get access to the same list of spells nor the same level (your elven wizard is powerful, but expensive and you don't get the option to pay for a cheaper lightning bolt). Also, wizards usually start with one default spell, and as you usually don't want too many spells on the same caster as you can only use one per turn, this mean that this simple default spell already make wizards with a similar spell access very different.

For exemple the elven wizard starts with heal as default, while the twilight kin (dark elves) version starts with fireball.  Both have in theory the same spells at a similar cost, but this simple difference make elven wizards much more defensives and heal much more rare on twilight kin.

With magic spells working like ranged attacks, they are nicely integrated to the game and not a separate subsystem, also you pay for the spells you want, no random selection, so your wizards are costed an appropriate number of points, they are very nice to have, but if you want an army without any you can (I would however not recommand an undead army without at least one surge source unless you really know what you are doing).

In any case,  you wont delete an undamaged horde with just one casting of a spell, but you might use a spell to finish a damaged one, or to snipe an army standard, or to kill a chaff unit that was coming your way.
Also support spells like bane chant or surge can be game changers if used correctly, surge can give you trick charges, and bane chant on a unit with lots of attacks or shots can make a great difference to the resulting damage, especially against units with a very high defense.

About tournament tweaks, the current list (not officially final yet, but already used by some tournaments, including ETC) is from memory something like this :
- allies cannot take artefacts
- units lose flying while disordered (so you can try to pin a flier after the initial charge top prevent it from fleing too easily)
- both pharahos have their def reduced to 5+ (they were too good for their points)
- In dominate and invade scenarios, units with the individual rule are only worth half victory points (to prevent abuse by small but very expensive and very mobile heros like mounted vampire that wait until the last turn to rush the scoring area). Big fliers were also sometimes a problem there, but with the change to fly above they should already be fixed
- In loot scenario (the one with moveable objective counters), you lose fly and nimble rules while you are carrying an objective in addition to having your speed capped to 5 (this prevent a specific situation where an army with some fast units that get first turn might win by turn 2 against some slower armies)

I might have forgotten something, but this should give a good general idea of the changes.

Finally, about general tactica, see the similar thread on the official forums :
http://vb.manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/kingdoms-of-man/280820-general-army-advice
(especially my answer in post #5 to give an idea)

You can make an human army works in very different wayts, I have someone making a roman like army with almost all infantry with some ranged support and limited cavalry, but also all cavalry armies (tricky to manage, but can work).
i would advise that you start with a nice balanced army to get a feel with all unit types and tactics and only then thing about specialising if you still want.

Just one final word of advice : the simple number of units is very important in KoW, a common error for players coming from warhammer is to take the most elite unit possible, with as many artefact you can pay for to make them even  more effective. While this kind of army can seem strong at first, especially if you play against a similar minded opponent, against a more experienced player with a balanced army you will usually find yourself outdeployed, flanked, and then killed, elite units are better used when they have other units to protect their flanks or otherwise fight one versus one, but if you fight one versus 3, say goodbye to your elite. That why if you take some expensive units like big elite hordes or monsters, it's usually a good idea to also compensate by taking some cheap unit and/or hero so you don't fall too much being in total number of units.

Usually for 2000 points you might want to have something in the 10-14 unit range, most often 11-13.

You can use http://kow2.easyarmy.com to try to make an army to give you an idea if you want.


Offline Ursa Doom

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2016, 03:07:31 PM »
I rather like how streamlined the magic system is in KoW. I always found the magic phase in WHFB to be a tad bit annoying and I hated how 8'th editon handeled it.

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016, 10:41:39 PM »
I always felt that magic in 8th edition was overpowered, but that 6th and 7th could have used a boost. I would favour the addition of the Wizard level to casting/dispel attempts to the 6th/7th magic system.
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Offline Ursa Doom

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2016, 07:33:27 AM »
I mostly found it frustrating because I played Vampire Counts and the dices thought it would be fun to repeat the joke of having me miscast and lose the spell on my Necromancer I needed to keep my army from crawling like a turtle, or I would play against High Elves that would just outright remove the spell.

Offline Midaski

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2016, 07:21:06 PM »
I've had my first two games this weekend.
My League of Rhordia v. No1son's Twilight Kin

Saturday I got trounced - today I returned the compliment.

First game I went in with very little background or investigation.
I took a Duke, a Master Sergeant, and a Sorcerer      -             He took 2 Standard Bearers and a Wizard

I didn't even see the Magic Artefacts, and so just picked a variety of troops - and set up a battle line.
He had two lines Basic Spearmen Troops in front of two regiments of Witch Elves

Witch Elves are a bit nasty  :engel: especially when they hit your flank with 50 attacks. 


Second Game I learnt quickly - Used two battle lines - dropped the howitzer for a second volley gun, and dumped the leaders and used BSBs,  the sorcerer and a Master Engineer, and added a Battle Shrine.
I made sure he did not get any flanks and my knights starred wiping his Cold Ones first, and then one unit of Witch Elves.

My Master Engineer heroically halted a troop of spearmen from jointly attacking my horde of Militia Spearmen with his other Witch Elves who then got mashed.

The Battle Shrine was quite useful as the Rallying +2n was good, and with only 1 Attack it was perfect for holding up his Hydra for 3 or 4 turns, until my knights cleaned it off in the flank to end the game.



Both of us made mistakes, forgot things ( all magic spells are 'shooting' and I forgot to use a 'Heal' and a Lightening Bolt )


I must say I really enjoyed it.

There are some things that feel weird - like a flank attack not holding the enemy unit in place, as you move back an inch, - but it is quicker, simpler, and once you grasp the basics, pretty intuitive.

In my army all the troopers shot/ranged at 5+

The balance seems good - the Twilight Kin are more expensive points wise, and their stats are therefore better, but I could afford more figures.

The other thing that appeals is that with the set unit sizes 10, 20, 40 I can have units set up ready to go on movement trays, and I will also probably experiment with some of the other armies.


 
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2016, 10:57:19 PM »
I played my first game last week.
Empire vs Dwarfs.

I don't know the kings of war names yet.
Had a regiment of knights, horde of halberds, regiment of greatswords, regiment of greatswords with shields, cannon, troop of crossbows, troop of outriders. Wizard, priest, bsb.

It was fun.
my complaints are pretty much what most people have said about it. 
No interaction on each others turn.
Magic is simple
Units are simple

Overall my first impression was that it felt like 6th and 7th edition except the bad parts were fixed. lol
The movement is not forgiving. If you are are not thinking 3 turns ahead then you can get screwed.
Charging is fair. You charge in, do your attacks, and then push back. Then your opponent can charge you and get some attacks in. Again its very much a movement game because you have to plan your counter charges to where your target will be in 2-3 turns.
Artillery just rolls to hit which I find very boring. 9th age does that too.
I've done enough of the roll 1 dice, need 5+ to hit and then miss 4 turns in row during 40k. At this point I never want to take 1 dice shot units ever. I'll take a battery of 3 cannons needing 5's to hit because I'll actually get 1 hit.

I also got the rulebook and read through it.
It said that the game was designed so that each player plays their turn like a chess match, you can even use a timer. So that way you are not waiting on your opponent. But this leads to less interaction.

I like that the game is simple because with 8th or 9th age it was hard to get people into the game. I like the complexity but most people don't have patience or even enjoy complex games.

After reading the rules I just kept thinking on how if they just added a few extra things here and there it would up the interaction, give more depth and offer more tactics.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 08:04:26 AM »
One way to add the FEELING of interaction is to let the defending player roll for saves in combat. I know the trick works on me.

I think KoW is the perfect tournament game because
- of its simplicity, leading to shorter games. No sweat in seeing the game to the end.
- of its tactical, chess-like movement. The game is mostly in movement.

I don't want to play 9th Age in tournaments, because the 3 hour limit for an individual game is not working at all for me. I want to have time to marvel at the units and individual figures. I want time to consider the tactics and odds, even if it might be rather clear which action is the best option. I guess I'm just slow. In KoW there are usually fewer choices and fewer actions, so it's much more straightforward.

The drawbacks of KoW are
- because of the relative simplicity of the game play compared to WH/T9A, it doesn't thrill in the same way.
- because of non-customizable troops, it doesn't thrill in the same way.
- after the depth of the Old World, Mantica doesn't thrill in the same way.
- the models produced for the game don't thrill in the same way.

I know I don't have to even look at the Mantica fluff and models to enjoy the game with my WH troops. But the fluff & the models are very important motivators for me. Sub-par models somehow make the whole fluff & game suck. (And I don't say all Mantic models are sub-par. Many actually match GW when you consider the quality/price factor, and some surpass the oldest AND newest GW models.)

It's just hard to think of KoW without reference to the other fantasy battles game. Unfair, but I cannot get around it.

Game-wise, I'd like to add a layer of customization to KoW units. More formations, with maybe two optional ones for each unit size. No idea how to fit it into the game without breaking it, though.

-Z
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Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2016, 03:48:38 AM »
One way to add the FEELING of interaction is to let the defending player roll for saves in combat. I know the trick works on me.

I think KoW is the perfect tournament game because
- of its simplicity, leading to shorter games. No sweat in seeing the game to the end.
- of its tactical, chess-like movement. The game is mostly in movement.

I don't want to play 9th Age in tournaments, because the 3 hour limit for an individual game is not working at all for me. I want to have time to marvel at the units and individual figures. I want time to consider the tactics and odds, even if it might be rather clear which action is the best option. I guess I'm just slow. In KoW there are usually fewer choices and fewer actions, so it's much more straightforward.

The drawbacks of KoW are
- because of the relative simplicity of the game play compared to WH/T9A, it doesn't thrill in the same way.
- because of non-customizable troops, it doesn't thrill in the same way.
- after the depth of the Old World, Mantica doesn't thrill in the same way.
- the models produced for the game don't thrill in the same way.

I know I don't have to even look at the Mantica fluff and models to enjoy the game with my WH troops. But the fluff & the models are very important motivators for me. Sub-par models somehow make the whole fluff & game suck. (And I don't say all Mantic models are sub-par. Many actually match GW when you consider the quality/price factor, and some surpass the oldest AND newest GW models.)

It's just hard to think of KoW without reference to the other fantasy battles game. Unfair, but I cannot get around it.

Game-wise, I'd like to add a layer of customization to KoW units. More formations, with maybe two optional ones for each unit size. No idea how to fit it into the game without breaking it, though.

-Z

+1

Some models off the top of my head:
Undead stuff
Alot of the cavalry units are good, ....especially when you look at the GW 20 year old empire knights. lol.
The treekin dudes are great. Just as good if not better than GW.
They also have good looking harpies.
Good looking succubi.
And alot of their elf infantry I like alot, the skinnyness fits with elves whereas their human factions have the same skinnyness that doesn't fit.


Heh, while reading Kings of War rules I couldn't help but think 'oh, you can add in this rule to make it more interesting, attacks back, some armour saves, etc....


From what I've heard of 9th age, it goes a bit quicker than 8th edition because some of the problem areas were cleaned up rules wise. Things like setting up your army go faster, ASF re-rolls gone so that picks up the game a bit, etc...
Just a few little things that don't seem like much but it adds up. They say it takes about the same time as a 7th edition game.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2016, 08:22:16 AM »
From what I've heard of 9th age, it goes a bit quicker than 8th edition because some of the problem areas were cleaned up rules wise. Things like setting up your army go faster, ASF re-rolls gone so that picks up the game a bit, etc...
Just a few little things that don't seem like much but it adds up. They say it takes about the same time as a 7th edition game.

I've never been able to play "full games" (2K-2,5K) with WHFB/T9A fast. It always takes me about four hours after the setup. The game is complex, and there's a lot of buffing, and a layer of phases and die-rolling which may not, in the end, change anything on the table. The game might not proceed much even if I do a lot. But you can say that I'm not an experienced player, and that slows down my play.

With roughly the same model count and the same number of individual units, KoW takes two hours. The game is clearer, there are less options and buffs, less phases and layers, and most die-rolls bring some sort of an effect. The game proceeds as you play it, even if you're inexperienced.

I don't mind slow games with friends, but in tournaments the games must proceed. I hear many T9A tournament games must stop after turn 4 or 5, and I remember this with the 8th ed when I went into tournaments myself years ago. And this is with gamers who supposedly know the game well and play familiar lists. That would be highly unsatisfactory for me, unless it was a clear and early wipeout. The game is designed to play in 6 turns, so stopping early factually is not playing the game as it should. If stopping early is a regular problem of tournament play, what's the point of rushed-up tournament play then? (This might be more a problem of tournaments: they should perhaps be two-day happenings with two games per day only.)

For me, KoW is THE tournament fantasy battle game, WHFB/T9A is THE fluffy all-night fantasy battle game. I'm enjoying both, but the divide for me is clear. And as I like fluffy all-nighters, and am privileged to find friends for such games, I'm playing less KoW.

-Z
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2016, 11:51:30 PM »
Hmmm ... like some of what I'm reading here.  Seems a bit straight forward from what I can gather.
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Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2016, 04:11:32 AM »
Witch Elves are a bit nasty  :engel: especially when they hit your flank with 50 attacks. 

The first rule of Kings of War Club is: don't let anything on your flank.
The second rule of Kings of War Club is: don't let anything on your flank.


The other thing that appeals is that with the set unit sizes 10, 20, 40 I can have units set up ready to go on movement trays, and I will also probably experiment with some of the other armies.

Between the set "footprint" of units, and not removing individual figures (which I think is an archaic mass battle mechanic anyway) I think that it helps streamline army building and gameplay, and opens things up for great modeling opportunities. I've seen some really beautiful armies on great scenic bases.


I also got the rulebook and read through it.
It said that the game was designed so that each player plays their turn like a chess match, you can even use a timer. So that way you are not waiting on your opponent. But this leads to less interaction.

I agree. The only reason this isn't a deal killer is that, from my limited experience so far, gameplay seems to move so quickly that you're not waiting long for each turn.


I like that the game is simple because with 8th or 9th age it was hard to get people into the game. I like the complexity but most people don't have patience or even enjoy complex games.

After reading the rules I just kept thinking on how if they just added a few extra things here and there it would up the interaction, give more depth and offer more tactics.

I agree on both counts. I think this may be the game I use to recruit non-wargamers into trying out some wargaming. I also think that just a little more development could improve the game. But not so much that it ruins the ease of play.


The drawbacks of KoW are
- because of the relative simplicity of the game play compared to WH/T9A, it doesn't thrill in the same way.
- because of non-customizable troops, it doesn't thrill in the same way.
- after the depth of the Old World, Mantica doesn't thrill in the same way.
- the models produced for the game don't thrill in the same way.

I prefer not being stuck with one brand of figures anyway, so that's not an issue for me. Not really fond of the Mantica fluff (or many of the models) either. But I was looking for a WFB proxy anyway.  :wink: Like I said above, I also agree that it feels like there's just something missing from the game too.

As far as the customizable troops, that's one thing that I like. The units are pretty straight forward. Some get an alternate weapon option, etc. and you can customize a bit with magic items that give a particular buff. That's about my ideal level of customizing. I think it's a refreshing change after WFB's emphasis on army building over tabletop decision making.


Some models off the top of my head:
Undead stuff
Alot of the cavalry units are good, ....especially when you look at the GW 20 year old empire knights. lol.
The treekin dudes are great. Just as good if not better than GW.
They also have good looking harpies.
Good looking succubi.
And alot of their elf infantry I like alot, the skinnyness fits with elves whereas their human factions have the same skinnyness that doesn't fit.

Undead are the most consistently good figures for me. I like the Abyssal dwarf golems and a few other figures from that army. But for me, most of their figures range from just "OK" to downright ugly or awkward looking. (Admittedly, that's all a bit subjective.) I like the concept of the thin elves, just not the execution. (I prefer something like Tom Meier's old elves for Citadel & RP, or Thunderbolt Mountain.)


I hear many T9A tournament games must stop after turn 4 or 5, and I remember this with the 8th ed when I went into tournaments myself years ago. And this is with gamers who supposedly know the game well and play familiar lists.

This is a turnoff for me because I think it leads to further emphasis on deathstars, uberspells, unstoppable heros/monsters, etc. because you need to cause colossal, decisive damage in just a few turns. No maneuver, no battle tactics/plans, just deathblows executed as quickly as possible.


Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2016, 07:17:29 PM »
Some models off the top of my head:
Undead stuff
Alot of the cavalry units are good, ....especially when you look at the GW 20 year old empire knights. lol.
The treekin dudes are great. Just as good if not better than GW.
They also have good looking harpies.
Good looking succubi.
And alot of their elf infantry I like alot, the skinnyness fits with elves whereas their human factions have the same skinnyness that doesn't fit.

Undead are the most consistently good figures for me. I like the Abyssal dwarf golems and a few other figures from that army. But for me, most of their figures range from just "OK" to downright ugly or awkward looking. (Admittedly, that's all a bit subjective.) I like the concept of the thin elves, just not the execution. (I prefer something like Tom Meier's old elves for Citadel & RP, or Thunderbolt Mountain.)

I was looking at the golems too with some interest.
I found the more I stared at the mantic stuff the more I liked it. Except for ogres, the tiny leg syndrome of those old models is pretty bad.
The price point per model also starts to sway your judgement. Like a horde of 40 for the same price as 10 of GW, for peopel who just paint to tabletop standard its a sweet deal.
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Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2016, 11:16:06 PM »
That's how I ended up with the Mantic skeletons. I got 3-4 for every GW skeleton I would have bought. I think the GW figures are nicer, but not at that much of a difference for rank & file troopers.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2016, 06:27:13 AM »
Although I have noticed that, typical for eBay, many of the sellers there must think that a "good deal" is a sign to raise prices, and quite a few of the Mantic deals there are priced well above what it would cost at most norm retailers, or even ordering direct from Mantic.  :icon_rolleyes:

Offline The Peacemaker

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2016, 06:24:51 AM »
Although I have noticed that, typical for eBay, many of the sellers there must think that a "good deal" is a sign to raise prices, and quite a few of the Mantic deals there are priced well above what it would cost at most norm retailers, or even ordering direct from Mantic.  :icon_rolleyes:

I don't even bother with ebay anymore. The % that ebay takes from selling anything on there + the shipping(which cuts the price of you sale and then ebay also takes a cut of the shipping). So selling is out.
And then because of all the extra costs, I find it hard to get any kind of deal. most stuff just comes out to the same price as in the store.
....Although I also have to convert into Canadian dollars, since our liberal prime minister got elected the dollar tanks as usual and now it will stay that way for 4 years.
Looks like I'm buying domestic, ....or not buying anything.
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Offline Sceleris

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2016, 03:57:48 PM »
Hmmm ... like some of what I'm reading here.  Seems a bit straight forward from what I can gather.

The straight mechanics are simple, there aren't masses of additional rules and there is only limited customization of units & heroes.

However the gameplay itself is pretty tactical, movement is key (units double attacks from the flank and triple the from the rear), the magic system is flexible without going silly and objective/terrain feel right. Can be quite chesslike - with setting up unit exchanges and counter charging - esp with fixed movement.

20(?) different armies and there aren't any real default netlists. Active rules committee and support for the game from the developers; fully flexible model choices and with fixed unit sizes you have free rein on modeling.

Was a bit sceptical at first but having more fun than in last editioms of WHFB

Straight up Kill games can be a little dull though so avoid when learning.

Offline cornwall

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Re: Kings of War
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2016, 11:52:31 AM »
I'd agree with that.

I must have played 100's of Warhammer straight up kill games, so it's really nice to have scenarios to play out. If I roll up kill, then often I'll switch it for mission 6 which is kill and loot so you've got objectives to think about as well as marching forwards. There are also 2 new missions now that people are playing out. Control, and Push so the game is new and evolving

The more varied the missions the more you are encouraged to pick a balanced army that's capable of dealing with all comers.

I've got to admit that I miss warhammer magic, however magic phases commonly used to take a large portion of the game up and I believe that really any table based wargame should be about movement. I've always liked armies of soldiers and used to feel particularly hard done by when your average skull crusher army turned up and used to walk all over my poor humans, or someone managed to roll box cars and get the huge spell off the meant you may as well have not even bothered deploying.

This for me is Kings of war's ace in the hole.

It's balanced!

(admittedly I've never tried 9th)