Topic: Our miniature collections in the distant future (possibly depressing)

[Victor]

I have had this somewhat depressing thought two days ago: I was thinking about my visit to the Vienna Museum of art history some months ago and all the gorgeous and brilliant exhibits there from centuries and millennia past. While I wouldn't class our miniatures in the same category as those exhibits, once you have spent seemingly countless hours in building and painting them, they do count as small pieces of art in my opinion (ignoring the fact that most of the miniatures or -parts were mass produced by companies). So the thought crossed my mind, what will happen to our miniature collections once we are long gone? (For the sake of the argument, let's just assume that the world doesn't end in the next 1000 years, humanity is still around and has not been enslaved by an alien race).

I guess the majority of people view their miniatures primarily as a means to play a game and are not really "emotionally attached" to them like I or others seem to be.  Let's face it - the majority of the wargaming miniatures out there are also not in a good shape - badly painted and not well treated. How many of the wargaming miniatures currently circulating will still be around in 50, in 100 years or more? Most will find their way into the garbage eventually. Well painted miniatures will have the best survival chance, but even their numbers will decline. Tin soldiers have been around for centuries, but they were not all that common back in the days. Those old tin soldiers that still exist are owned by collectors with a strong interest in history, but I reckon that this collector scene is very small - just like the collector scene for pre-slotta Citadel miniatures (35-40 year old miniatures) is already rather small.

So what do you think? Where will our miniatures end up in 100, 200, 500 or 1000 years? Will there be any left? Will some of them make it into a museum at some point?


PS.: Their numbers will decline asymptotically over time. The question is: How fast?

[Naitsabes]

I think you hit on the key point. These are mass produced by some company and that makes it much harder for the general public to see them as 'art'. I can't see them in a real museum anytime soon unless the owner/painter became really famous for some other reason. So, if Mozart had been painting toy soldiers (even badly), I could see them exhibited next to his crib, his pipe and his favorite chair to get us closer to the 'man behind the music'.

In terms of where will the miniatures end up, I would say largely landfills. But, then they could be dug up in a few thousand years...presumably our loving paintjob is long gone but plastic lasts forever. For example, I am sure the Romans are chuckling in their graves about our interest in the odd broken items they tossed in the bin.

[Victor]

I wouldn't expect to see any of them in a museum within the next 300 years. Before something like that is even possible, they first have to reach the status of being really antique and rare - and before something can count as antique, it usally has to go through a (long) phase of being considered garbage, during which time most of the items in question are destroyed. Sad, isn't it?

[Gankom]

I saw Toy Story and Indian in the Cupboard at a formative age, so I m still hoping for the day my army comes to life and moves off to form their own society.

[Warlord]

Sad but inevitable thought.
Well painted have the best chance of survival being passed down family lines, as shelf ornaments.

Plastic may last a long time, but its condition can suffer against water and sand. Adhesives can deteriorate.

I think the other point you raise is also interesting - assuming we are around in a 1000 years. Society will look very different from now, so who knows. They could br converted into hyperspace fuel...

[ZeroTwentythree]

I've already had some problems with early GW plastics turning brittle.

I assume some extremely small percentage of figures will continue to pass from collector to collector. I know a few collectors of old toys and toy soldiers -- though that's only really talking about 100 years or so of history. But there will always be a few collectors of relics from the past.

When I'm dead, I'll be dead. There won't be a me to be concerned about figures, so there's no point in worrying about it now. I will just continue to enjoy them in the present -- as that is the only purpose they serve.

[Von Kurst]

I wouldn't expect to see any of them in a museum within the next 300 years.

I sometimes work as a contractor for the local Children's Museum.  One of the joys is going through collections.  A warehouse full of old toys, organized by year.  Or genre, the Star Wars collection is amazing.  My point being that somewhere there's a warehouse with a Warhammer collection already.  Especially now that the company has ended so many lines, curators live for that kind of challenge.

[Zygmund]

I wouldn't expect to see any of them in a museum within the next 300 years.

Saw miniatures from several companies in a local museum a couple of years ago. Not a standing collection, though, so they don't quite count. But there's a games museum being founded in Finland, and they're collecting stuff that only 10-40 years old. It won't be long until they or a like-minded institution gets some classic minis for their standing collection.

There's the Miniatur Wunderland (Miniature Wondeland) in Hamburg, with vast railway and landscape dioramas. It's a standing museum collection and they charge for entry. So I guess that counts as a museum for plastic figures, although it's not Warhammer.

The Perry brothers & a hired company produced a massive Agincourt diorama for an English museum, and another massive Gallipoli diorama for an Australian (?) museum. There are your gorgeously painted wargame miniatures in a museum. Yes, it's meant as a display. But I'd bet many visitors marvel at individual figures and appreciate them as well-painted Perry miniatures.

And what else are the Foundry and GW display cabinets than private museums? Already Oldhammerists gather annually at the Foundry estate to drool over old, OOP and some uniquely rare 80's minis gorgeously painted by the founding masters of the hobby. I don't think they charge for entry, but that time will surely come within a decade or two. GW of course charges for entry, but I don't know if they display the older miniatures.

The nostalgia of the 30-60 years old wargamers and collectors is there. It's pure market calculation as to how and where a museum pays for its founding and upkeep. I think it will happen in England or Germany first.

-Z

[Oxycutor]

Warhammer World has it's showcases of miniatures, mainly the current range, and special displays, but they still do have plenty of cabinets of really old stuff

[Padre]

Several years ago I took boxes and boxes of the old Airfix 1:32 scale soldiers I painted as a boy down from my mothers loft, where they had been for about 20 years. not 100s, but 1000s. When I held them the paint flaked off in my fingers. When I dropped one it shattered like it was made of brittle clay. They used to be that waxy sort of bendy plastic, and now they had become so fragile. I discovered that if I did not hold them incredibly gingerly then their Napoleonic muskets snapped off, and a Timpo tent I found (which once you could sit on and it would bend back into shape) just crumbled almost to dust when I picked it up.

I live in fear of my fantasy collection crumbling in a like manner in about, erm, 2 years time.

[The Peacemaker]

I've already had some problems with early GW plastics turning brittle.

I assume some extremely small percentage of figures will continue to pass from collector to collector. I know a few collectors of old toys and toy soldiers -- though that's only really talking about 100 years or so of history. But there will always be a few collectors of relics from the past.

When I'm dead, I'll be dead. There won't be a me to be concerned about figures, so there's no point in worrying about it now. I will just continue to enjoy them in the present -- as that is the only purpose they serve.

This is pretty much it.
Its also why I love the metal models.

[ZeroTwentythree]

Hrm... I wonder if I should write a clause in my will that requires all of my metal figures to be stripped & melted down, then cast into a grave marker or memorial.  If I can't have them, no one can!!

[Naitsabes]

For proper burials I think this is a better approach.

[Padre]

To do that they'd have to miniaturise 023.

[GamesPoet]

For proper burials I think this is a better approach.

Wonder what was in this guys mind when he built these and had them buried with him.

[ZeroTwentythree]

To do that they'd have to miniaturise 023.

Maybe I could get cremated, and have my remains mixed with metal so that I could be cast into miniatures.

I think we're on to something here.... Maybe I should get an original miniature likeness of me cast, and molds made. Then have cremated me mixed with lead, cast into ZeroTwentythree replicas, and given away as a memorial. 

[Padre]

That's a very novel idea - at least I've never heard of anything like it before. It intrigues me and disturbs me at one and the same time. You'd have to set the kickstarter campaign to start about the time you die.

[Xathrodox86]

I plan to expand, assemble, paint and play with all of my armies. I have a tight group of friends who do likewise and we motivate each other, when it comes to many things, including hobby.

If anything would happen to me, then my RPG books will go to one of my friends, who regulary runs our games but dosen't really have any books of his own. I know that he'll make good use of them.

In my will I've stated that all of my minis are to be sold and the funds raised from this will go to a cancer fighting patrimony.

This hobby is awesome, but I'll be more happy if it could do some good, and not just stand on my shelves.

[ZeroTwentythree]

That's a very novel idea - at least I've never heard of anything like it before. It intrigues me and disturbs me at one and the same time. You'd have to set the kickstarter campaign to start about the time you die.

I think that arranging & funding it all well in advance would work best. As in: commission a sculpt, get masters/molds made, etc. So the only thing left at The End is for the inclusion of my remains in the final casts.

[Padre]

Your asking us to arrange and fund your death? I don't think I have the right sort of 'contacts' to do such a thing!

[The Real Rick Salamone]

I had this discussion with my gaming group a few years ago. It got us all thinking. One guy, who doesn't have children, revealed that he has made arrangements that if anything happens to him his extensive rare miniature collection is already going to one of us. I assume my son would pick up gaming or at least hold onto my completed fantasy armies and that they would stay with the family.

I live by the (US) National Toy Hall of Fame and a large toy and gaming museum. I have told my wife before that I would like my painted stuff exhibited there. I'm not sure why that's important to me...it must be because I've spent so much time and money on these things that I would hope for someone else to enjoy looking at them or be inspired to pick up a brush and paint pot themselves. That's how I got into it. I saw some kid's painted figures and the rest is history.

[Durloth]

I don't doubt we'll see painted miniatures in museums, both in the same way as, say, 19th century toy soldiers and in illustrative dioramas, but if you are thinking of them displayed as individual pieces of art, I'm sure we've got a rather depressing future ahead. The miniatures being mass produced isn't really the problem, though. There is no lack of exhibitions on mass produced garments or furniture for example. I think the problem is more that our miniatures are a fringe phenomenon and that we're not really part of a stylistic history (except the red period). While many miniatures are impressive  technically, without a stylistic history and much individual expression, painted miniatures are basically kitch.

[Zygmund]

Stylistically, many miniatures tie to the fantasy & heavy music cover genre, which is hugely popular. So this hobby is not without a wider artistic reference.

But yes, the minis are mass produced.

Still, some individual minis or rarer sets have seen a substantial rise in value. When something is seen as valuable, there's a good chance it will end up being seen as investment. Like art. Those pieces have a good chance of ending in a museum collection. Like original metal Britains toys were also mass produced at the time, and are now collectors' items and portrayed in museums. Even original plastic Britains animals have value today.

The newest toy & industry & artisan museum collections I've seen reach up to the 50's and 60's. I guess in 20 years we will have 70's and 80's stuff in museums. Then we will see if and where the minis fit in.

-Z

[Durloth]

There is now a rising awareness on current culture in museums. My museum is actually right now making a large exhibit on middle class homes from 1947 to the early 1990. Maybe I'll sneak in some Oldhammer:)

[Doc J]

I saw Toy Story and Indian in the Cupboard at a formative age, so I m still hoping for the day my army comes to life and moves off to form their own society.

I think about the same thing myself and thats why Im hesitant to buy them a cannon, I dont want them trying to kill the sleeping giant six feet away