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Author Topic: war wagon help  (Read 1986 times)

Re: war wagon help
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2018, 08:12:32 PM »
Maybe I should cherry-pick stuff too...

"In fact, in 1588, while one English gunner complained about the lack of skilled gunnners in the fleet, Spanish observers claimed that the English fired their guns as frequently as the Spanish could fire a musket." (p. 43, Tudor Warships v. 2)

There is no contradiction. It depends on the level of skill you would expect.

It's not what you said originally...
Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen
Adaprting your plans according to circumstances is exactly a sign of good leadership.
You're grasping at straws now...

The shoe seems rather on the other foot.
Is something wrong with you?

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Re: war wagon help
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2018, 08:39:24 PM »
Maybe I should cherry-pick stuff too...

"In fact, in 1588, while one English gunner complained about the lack of skilled gunnners in the fleet, Spanish observers claimed that the English fired their guns as frequently as the Spanish could fire a musket." (p. 43, Tudor Warships v. 2)

There is no contradiction. It depends on the level of skill you would expect.

It's not what you said originally...

Yes, it is. The assumed difference between the quotes is explained by the different level of skill each side is accustomed to.

Quote from: Fidelis von Sigmaringen
Adaprting your plans according to circumstances is exactly a sign of good leadership.
You're grasping at straws now...

The shoe seems rather on the other foot.
Is something wrong with you?

No, I am perfectly fine, thank you.

It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

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Re: war wagon help
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2018, 10:19:48 PM »
Time for Tea and stickies.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: war wagon help
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2018, 09:19:52 AM »
Before tea and stickies, allow me to quote the full paragraph Condottiero Magno himself referred to:

Quote
While the demi-cannons were still 10ft (3m) long, culverins ranged from 7 to 8Vzft (2.1 to 2.6m) long, demi-culverins were 8ft (204m), while sakeus and falcons were listed as being 7ft (2.1m) long. Once these guns were mounted on compact four-wheeled carriages with small truck wheels, they would take up considerably less deck space than earlier, longer guns, and would consequently be easier to reload and to fire. While the Spanish still mounted their guns on two-wheeled carriages essentially solid-wheeled and slightly shortened versions of those employed on land - the English had developed their own form of gun carriage. The carriages recovered from the Mary Rose which sank in 1545 show that this process was already underway during Henry VIII's reign, and a combination of accounts and a few scant pictorial records suggest that by 1580 the NavyRoyal had fully adopted the four-wheeled carriage. The combination of shorter guns and more manoeuvrable carriages was as important to the success of the Elizabethan warship as the design of her hull. In fact, in 1588, while one English gunner complained about the lack of skilled gunners in the fleet, Spanish observers claimed that the English fired their guns as frequently as the Spanish could fire a musket. The gun and carriage were perfectly designed for the business of naval gunnery, and consequently they easily outdid the Spanish in terms of rate of fire if not in accuracy. The effect this gunnery advantage had on English naval tactics has already been examined in some detail in Elizabethan Sea Dogs (Osprey Elite Series 70). However, it is worth repeating that while the Spanish based their tactics on boarding the enemy, the English preferred to keep their distance and rely on their ordnance. This is exactly why Drake altered the ordnance carried on board the Elizabeth Bonaventure in 1585. Royal warships were issued with boarding weapons, muskets and other close-range weapons, but it was much safer to keep the better-trained Spanish sea soldiers at a safe distance. If the English fleet closed to within point-blank range of the enemy - just as they did during the final stages of the Armada campaign - then the effect could be devastating.

Whose position is actually supported here? But now I will hold my tongue on this subject.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)