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Author Topic: Empire Secessionists Army  (Read 2756 times)

Offline The Penguin

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2018, 05:08:32 PM »
You look different somehow. Did you do something to your hair?

But on topic: do they need to secede from the Empire? How about just seceding from Middenland or other region.?

I grew some proper brutal manbeard and waxed my mustache with most refined elven balm to make it curly and fabulous!  :-P (Which I actually did in real life!)

How about from Reikland (I have some strong dislike for that particular province for some reason) and joining Middenland? Or becoming a free City-State rather?  :smile2:

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2018, 05:30:41 PM »
Well, there is the historical example of the Swiss versus Habsburg (which is the historical counterpart of the Holswig-Schliestein dynastie). If there is a historic grievance (real or imagined), then inaccessible terrain (Grey Mountains) and the proximity of an enemy of my enemy (Bretonnia) would increase the chances of a secession.
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Offline The Penguin

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2018, 05:59:38 PM »
I guess that is a great plan! Thanks a lot.  :smile2:

I am being quite pedantic about this, because I also need to place their home city of Himmelstadt somewhere..... Having it close to mountains sounds good!  :smile2:

Offline Il Condottiero

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 06:53:10 PM »

Thanks a lot! I would love to see your Marienburg army, could you possibly provide a link to the thread where I could have a look, please?  :smile2:

Alas, unfortunately my Marienburgers are currently on the process of being repainted, I've not posted them up yet. Most of the army are made of tilean dogs of war units, in any case.

I can bring you these two characters, however. A captain and a paymaster.



Scheme is red/blue/yellow.
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Offline The Penguin

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 07:22:20 PM »

Alas, unfortunately my Marienburgers are currently on the process of being repainted, I've not posted them up yet. Most of the army are made of tilean dogs of war units, in any case.

I can bring you these two characters, however. A captain and a paymaster.

Scheme is red/blue/yellow.

These guys look positively awesome!  :smile2: really looking forward to seeing your progress.
Forge World has some upgrade bits for Marienburg, don't they? The prices are, however, most likely insane.  :dry:

Edit: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/Empire-Manann-s-Blades Yep! 30£ For 10 incomplete even figures.  :happy:
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 07:29:47 PM by The Penguin »

Offline S.O.F

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 08:30:34 PM »
Then the TW:Warhammer came out and one particular faction I found most interesting: Empire Secessionists. I might be wrong but I can't recall any mention of any separatist movement in Empire fluff. I guess it is simply because the Empire is a loose confederacy so you can't really "secede" from it, but since they are positioned in Reikland I suppose they wanted independence on a province level, or at least to become free city-states.

Fidelis has covered a bunch of this already but as I don't know the amount Fidelis had looked into the W:TW setting compared to other I'll chime in these bits. The game setting for Warhammer Total War is a contrivance to well make the game work. The Imperial election of 2502 was a contentious one, not really due to animosity of Electors but that for the first time since the ascension of Wilhelm III there was politically viable opponent to stand for the title of Emperor other than the Princes of the Reikland. Graf Boris of Middenland was in his fifties, well respected and known for both his political and martial prowess, his Reikland counterpart, Karl Franz, was the young and untested. The vote was close by modern Imperial standards but it was honored and no 'real' incidents occurred other than perhaps some minor border skirmishes which were soon quelled as the new Emperor proved an energetic and able leader.

Now if you like the Total War version cool but to further add to Fidelis's contributions if you want table top stuff there are a couple of options. As mentioned you could have a Marienburg connection, not direct but that parts of the northern Reikland depend on the wealth more from Marienburg than Altdorf. Here is the best application of perhaps the Swiss Confederation analogy that has already been offered. The other older one not brought up is that WHFRP 2 set it up that for the first millennium of the Empire, the Reikland was rather a weak state with many rival claimants. Sigmar departed without heirs and there was a long political struggle between rivals to establish a strong Prince. Perhaps the region you want to create still harbors long held distaste for the winners of that struggle and displeased with other parts of Imperial politics want to push for Free State status over anything else. 
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Offline Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2018, 10:55:00 PM »
While the internal politics of the Empire (as well as any other faction divided into sub-factions) are utterly stupid in Warhammer: Total War, I still find the basic premise of the Empire campaign entirely plausible. Let's say Karl Franz won against Boris Todbringer by the narrowest margin, 8-7. Boris probably got six of the Elector Counts (mainly himself and the northern ones) and Ar-Ulric. That'd leave Karl Franz with just four Elector Counts, the three Sigmarite votes, and the Halfling Elector. So Boris might think for himself, eh, we're six provinces against four, we have more armies, so Karl Franz can get stuffed. Chances are that Ar-Ulric whispered in his ear (or, given the nature of the Cult of Ulric, shouted and pounded his fist maybe) about how he should rule, how he would have won if not for the iniquity of the Sigmarites having three votes against the Ulrican one.
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Offline Der Wissenlander

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2018, 12:09:16 AM »
Nice! Those shields are awesome!  :eusa_clap:

I recently got back into WHFB. I left when 6e started, and came back to so many changes. My nephew and I decided to start armies though, using 6e. I fell in love with Empire after initially having VC and Dwarf armies. I also wanted a sort of revolutionary army of the people rising up. I settled on Nuln/Wissenland because I like the Nuln fluff and the drabness of Wissenland (both are under the same Elector Countess). I’m painting up some Greatswords now. For my Knightly Orders, I’m using White Wolves and an obscure Sigmarite chapter in Wissenland called the Black Hammers. According to the fluff, they provide for themselves and donate any surplus to the local people. I’m thinking black and white as a color scheme, but I don’t know.   :?

I particularly like the Nuln Shantytown fluff re: crime bosses. I’m going to have my Free Companies be local toughs from the pubs a crime boss sent as a levy tribute to the Countess. They’re poor, so seen as expendable. Maybe the Black Hammers will try to convert them. “Just stay away from those flagellants, blokes.”  :-P

I can’t find a female model that I like, so my “Elector Count” will probably just be the Countess’ marshall or a nobel trying to win her favor with battlefield heroics (she’s like Elizabeth I that way).

(I’m new to the board, btw. Hi, all!)

Offline S.O.F

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2018, 11:46:37 AM »
While the internal politics of the Empire (as well as any other faction divided into sub-factions) are utterly stupid in Warhammer: Total War, I still find the basic premise of the Empire campaign entirely plausible. Let's say Karl Franz won against Boris Todbringer by the narrowest margin, 8-7. Boris probably got six of the Elector Counts (mainly himself and the northern ones) and Ar-Ulric. That'd leave Karl Franz with just four Elector Counts, the three Sigmarite votes, and the Halfling Elector. So Boris might think for himself, eh, we're six provinces against four, we have more armies, so Karl Franz can get stuffed. Chances are that Ar-Ulric whispered in his ear (or, given the nature of the Cult of Ulric, shouted and pounded his fist maybe) about how he should rule, how he would have won if not for the iniquity of the Sigmarites having three votes against the Ulrican one.

I mean certainly it could have happened though it still ignores the character of Boris Todbringer. That is perhaps the poorest job of W:TW, despite having a good list for the Electors, even for the 2502 start, with reasonably developed personalities and characteristics we don't get that in the game. Honestly I think the whole thing would have been better set up starting in say the 2100's leading up until the Great War. Most of the mechanics of growing chaos trouble could have stayed the same but it would have opened it up for more interesting and less on the rails sort of campaign play. Alas probably too much effort to cost return to do so.
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Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2018, 11:47:44 AM »
Talk of old world mobsters puts the imagine in my mind of a guy in Renaissance style clothing [but in black with white pin stripes], armed with a crossbow that fits inside a lute case :-P

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2018, 02:49:45 PM »
Nice looking army! Even tough they're dirty traitors, they are very good looking, dirty traitors. :-P
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Offline The Penguin

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2018, 03:05:53 PM »
Nice looking army! Even tough they're dirty traitors, they are very good looking, dirty traitors. :-P

Dirty traitors?!  :ph34r: En Garde, Herr Xathrodox!

Well, we need to find out what particular province they are seceding from or to!  :-P The discussion in this thread will eventually pin their location on the map, as well as the location of their hometown. )

Perhaps the region you want to create still harbors long held distaste for the winners of that struggle and displeased with other parts of Imperial politics want to push for Free State status over anything else.

That's what I shall be moving at, I guess. A separatist City-State with a particular region attached to it, which wants independence.  :smile2:

I am most grateful for your contribution to the discussion, guys! I've learned quite a lot about lesser known facts from Empire lore!  :blush:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:11:38 PM by The Penguin »

Offline Drakenhof

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2018, 06:47:05 PM »
Welcome on the forums! Very cool army and fluff, I also enjoy a lot this Empire politics dialogue :biggriin:

Offline The Penguin

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2018, 07:42:24 PM »
Welcome on the forums! Very cool army and fluff, I also enjoy a lot this Empire politics dialogue :biggriin:

Thank you very much. )  :smile2:

That is the treasure of this forum: its members. ) What differs local community from many others is friendly atmosphere and lots of hobby knowledge and stuff you can explore. Not to mention that Brush and Palette section is a great source of inspiration! Hopefully my humble efforts at painting miniatures and terrain creation will be a valuable addition. )  :blush:

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2018, 07:44:29 PM »
Come to think of it: the Empire has also some colonies (Neuland in Albion, Sudenburg in Araby, El-Kalabad in Khemri and Port Heldenhammer in Lustria), which an over-ambitious governor might try set up as his own realm.
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Offline The Penguin

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2018, 08:09:40 AM »
Come to think of it: the Empire has also some colonies (Neuland in Albion, Sudenburg in Araby, El-Kalabad in Khemri and Port Heldenhammer in Lustria), which an over-ambitious governor might try set up as his own realm.

Great idea, actually! I hoped to make Estalian colony army one day though. Last summer I finished my Lizardmen army and now they do not really have any foe to fight in Lusria. )  :smile2:

But who said I couldn't have two colonies there?

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2018, 01:01:19 PM »
Hmmm Would these colonies have...well... colonial troops? I.E Lizardmen auxiliaries?

Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 01:12:47 PM »
Hmmm Would these colonies have...well... colonial troops? I.E Lizardmen auxiliaries?

Lizardmen don't work for another races. They can trade with them, tolerate them (to some degree), but they would never hire themselves to fight for the "warm bloods".
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Offline Midaski

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2018, 01:25:25 PM »
Not true!

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Offline zak

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2018, 01:42:30 PM »
BURN!! lol
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Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2018, 02:08:30 PM »
Ahhh, I've been had. Altough I'm pretty sure that their lore stated that they're only fighting with/for other races, so they can grab some lost artifacts of the Old Ones. So, you know, they have an ulterior motive.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2018, 02:19:00 PM »
They fight to get the Golden Plagues.  Other DoW have an ulterior motive too: they fight to get golden coins.
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Offline Padre

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2018, 02:36:22 PM »
They fight to get the Golden Plagues.  Other DoW have an ulterior motive too: they fight to get golden coins.
I've heard of the Black Plague (or the Great Plague known as the Black Death) but not of the 'Golden Plague'. Is it like yellow fever, but shinier?
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Offline Xathrodox86

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2018, 02:49:56 PM »
They fight to get the Golden Plagues.  Other DoW have an ulterior motive too: they fight to get golden coins.
I've heard of the Black Plague (or the Great Plague known as the Black Death) but not of the 'Golden Plague'. Is it like yellow fever, but shinier?

Maybe it's the piss-plague from the "Thousand Thrones Campaign" for WFRP 2nd edition. Where you had to take a leak, but was unable to do so. You literally drowned in your own wee.
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Empire Secessionists Army
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2018, 03:05:48 PM »
Obvioulsy a spilling misstake.
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