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Author Topic: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)  (Read 929 times)

Offline Midaski

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2018, 08:43:40 PM »
The stretch goals seem to be getting better nearly every day as they are chasing their target.
A free extra box now if you have pledged over 100e

I wonder how many people are holding off pledging to try and squeeze more out of them.
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Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2018, 09:53:42 PM »
Having already pledged over 100 , I can just sit and watch my pledge's value rise. It's nice, of course, IF this funds. I could probably spend some more if Fireforge made an add-on or small stretch goal that would interest me. Still hoping for more add-ons from their resin and metal sets.

BTW, I ordered some Fireforge pavises via Bad Squiddo along with their Freyja kickstart. They are really nice pieces, and match well eg. Perry plastic pavises. If you have thought about getting them, I think now would be a good time. :)

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Offline Gankom

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2018, 11:06:28 PM »
I'm sitting amongst the magic 100 as well, and it's nice seeing stuff just keep getting added. Especially things like the characters that I kind of mentally wrote off a few days ago. I feel a bit bad for the company though. I like Fireforge and I hope it doesn't tank their resources.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2018, 01:26:33 AM »
Some comments ...

The orcs shown in the first update look more like half-orcs.

With stretch goals focused on 100 Euros or more, they recognize there's an issue.

Thank goodness for the Dus Vult add ons, if not,  I wouldn't likely pledge, but still haven't.

I like the idea of "Folk Rabble", but not sure I'll order any.

Don't see the campaign reaching to the other human faction,orcs, nor dwarfs.

It is great to have access to all the shield options, yet not sure I need them.

Free frames and boxes are nice, but only if one pledges more than 100 Euros, and not a complaint, just clearly they are lookimg to meet the campaign goal and attract large buyers into the campaign to make it.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 01:28:44 AM by GamesPoet »
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2018, 06:25:48 AM »
Very good summary of what the KS is about, and where it's heading atm. It's looking way better now than when it started, and I feel the response can be seen in the new momentum.

I also immediately thought of half-orcs when I saw their orc renders. I think AD&D half-orcs especially look like these. :::cheers:::

I'd like to note that after the Characters on foot were added to the basic goal of 130K , and now that everyone at 15 or higher gets one free sprue and some faction shields, even the lower pledge levels have become attractive value-wise. If this reaches 140K and the mounted characters get added, the Soldier pledge especially is very sweet. So if you chase value but are happy with few KS boxes, and/or want historical add-ons, you still have nice options. If you aim at a good number of historical add-ons, even the smaller pledge levels easily climb over 100 too, further sweetening the deal.

Fireforge has really met the demands of the public. I hope this doesn't undermine their business.

The Folk Rabble box comes with three identical sprues of six figures each (4 male, 2 female). I'm planning to get a couple of boxes, even if I already have a bunch of Foundry, Gripping Beast, Lead Adventure/Bruegelburg and Mordheim (angry) peasants, mostly unpainted still. It will be a nice box to tinker and mix with other plastics, and gives you excellent bodies for Flagellants if you have Flagellant arm spares. A sprue of six will also be a very nice trade or giveaway for hobby friends. And if you want to monetarize it later, you should be able to get your monies back at 4-5 (5-6 $) per sprue.

-Z
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2018, 02:10:21 PM »
I'm guessing they will have similar kickstarters in the future, which will provide other good deals to get more figures, new and old.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline Midaski

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2018, 08:23:14 AM »
I am also in over 100e

and I got their pavises at Salute - Zyg is right,  they are good

and I too got Bad Squiddo's Freya's Wrath figures - they're great too.

Fireforge seem a pretty decent outfit who have established themselves over a number of years. They  had a successful KS with their Bloodbowl Amazons, but I do feel that maybe this one was too ambitious.

NorthStar have been working on their Oathmark figures and have spaced out the 'arrival' of the 4 different races' boxes - Fireforge may well have been better off restricting this KS to the 3 boxes of a single race and then done the second race in 6 months time.
And probably they would have been better off judging the value better and making the KS box price better, or more figures per box, and then having far less complications with all the stretch goal and extras changes.

Some KS are just too complicated.
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2018, 09:17:44 AM »
They've held at slightly ahead of the $2,300 per day so far.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline Gankom

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2018, 04:07:24 PM »
I really think part of it is just how spoiled a lot of people have become with kickstarters. I don't mean this in a bad way, but think about how many kickstarters from big companies offer huge discounts, or tons of free stuff, or even just really shiny extras. Fireforge is a fairly small company that can't offer all of that. Combined with being a bit over ambitious, it's just not enough to attract a lot of the 'regular' mini backers.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2018, 07:45:01 PM »
Yeah, this KS has had complications. I would think Fireforge overstretched at start, had to throw in discounted add-ons from their existing range early (most companies do this midway or late), and has steadily crept back from their KS income through offering more freebies. Over half of the Early Bird pledges are still available, and that tells about the unfulfilled hopes of Fireforge - yet is a nice thing for a late pledger.

Nevertheless, at this point the different pledge levels seem to have found their balance, and the KS seems to have momentum again. And Fireforge have been very responsive and friendly all the time. My feeling is that Fireforge have already proven themselves, and I will order some from them also after this KS.

-Z
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Offline Midaski

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2018, 09:19:01 PM »
I am quite interested in who Gankom thinks is a 'big' company in the miniatures gaming world?

Most of the well known ones probably have a garage or shed as their building, and maybe 2 or 3 employees - several are one man bands who hire sculptors in as needed and then get independent castors to spin the miniatures, or Renedra to make the sprues.

Without too much exact knowledge, but based on the number of people I have seen on stands at exhibitions Fireforge are certainly not 'small' relative to the majority of manufacturers.

The ones I might acknowledge as 'larger' like Foundry or Gripping Beast may employ 5 - 10 people, have a phone service for orders, and spin their own metal figures, but neither of those have done KSs.

Indeed I thought Kickstarters were to get funding to get a project started - paying for the making of the moulds and/or the manufacture of the plastic kit moulds which was the game changer in our hobby.
The actual KS saw these costs covered and the company/owner then enjoyed the profit from future sales.

The initial KS covered all the set up costs and made a modest profit, and then future sales at a higher list price reaped the better profit.
That is the question really - once the KS is over how many more boxes are sold in normal transactions?

 
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline Gankom

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2018, 10:45:31 PM »
Quote
I am quite interested in who Gankom thinks is a 'big' company in the miniatures gaming world?

Just off the top of my head when I made that comment, I was thinking specifically of Reaper, Mantic and CMON. All three of whom have done kickstarters and have a lot more funding behind them. I don't know much about CMON, but both Reaper and Mantic and fairly significant staff and space. Fireforge I believe has two people (?) judging from the kickstarter.

I know there's lots of other fairly small miniature companies. And they do some amazing stuff! I just think Fireforge ranks more amongst the smaller ones then larger ones.

Quote
Indeed I thought Kickstarters were to get funding to get a project started - paying for the making of the moulds and/or the manufacture of the plastic kit moulds which was the game changer in our hobby.
The actual KS saw these costs covered and the company/owner then enjoyed the profit from future sales.

This is kind of what I was talking about when I was saying people seem a bit spoiled. and I'm in total agreement with you about everything else you said to. Kickstarter should absolutely be about getting the funding to 'kick start' the line. To get moulds made or books printed. But there's a lot of people in the comments for FireForge essentially bemoaning the fact their not getting more free stuff, or bigger discounts, etc. That kind of stuff does get offered by the bigger companies when they do kickstarters. Look at reaper making models for 50 cents a guy, or throwing in whole groups for relatively cheap stretch goals. I think some folks have just lost a bit of perspective when it comes to a small company trying to get moulds made.

Thinking back, I don't really remember Mantic's stretch goals but the kcikstarter I did with them was all about the huge number of guys you'd get for relatively cheap prices. In their case they wanted the new rulesbook funded and all the models already had moulds. So they could afford to offer more guys.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2018, 12:44:25 AM »
It's now 9 days remaining and sitting at a need of $2,450 per day, which means behind where it was over the last week.  Things seem to pick up in the last few days for these things, so maybe they can still make it.
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Offline commandant

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2018, 11:40:45 AM »
what are the rules like?

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2018, 03:17:49 PM »
what are the rules like?

At a browsing, the basic engine is similar to Warhammer, maybe 6th ed. Units are formed of individual models, and you count losses as individual models. You roll d6's and the like.

Differences:

You do not compare values in a table to get the target number, but units have fixed target numbers, similar to Kings of War or AoS. There might be situational modifiers to these numbers. The modern way you see in all games (but T9A).

Then there's a Stamina system. Basically, each unit has three (or more or less) Stamina points which they can use to enhance a single action. On the other hand, some actions, like moving and charging, are not as efficient as in Warhammer without the use of Stamina. Using Stamina also gives a malus in certain situations. So if a unit charged using Stamina, and then loses the combat, their combat resolution is one point less (IIRC). Thus units with unused Stamina points, or which didn't use Stamina this turn, have options and strength. Whereas units without Stamina are more predictable and less efficient, ie. tired. This looks like a good & interesting system to me. But likely needs a lot of balancing. Of course, it also means you need to have some sort of counters for each unit.

Also, magic runs with Stamina, so is a finite resource. Spells aren't that spectacular, and mostly give small boni to your own units. There were a couple of dozen spells described, in various convocations. I don't know if that's all there will be.

There is a morale phase after all the other phases. This means that units stay effective throughout their turn, and that all losses etc. are counted into the panic roll. Seems good to me, as you can pile up damage to a unit, and the unit cannot 'hide behind' its first panic roll.

Can't remember if there were special rules. But this is alpha phase, and the rules are very compressed. I would think when Fireforge adds specialized units and whole new factions, they need to introduce some special rules to differentiate the units and factions.

Just my hunch after one browsing.


FF is also doing a skirmish version that uses round bases. They haven't yet shown any of that.

Also, FF said at one point that they are not doing siege rules (even if the KS has the Renedra castle pieces as add-ons).

-Z
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Offline Gankom

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2018, 04:53:36 PM »
I'm of the same mind as Zygmund. I really like the idea of Stamina, but I'm waiting for more then the Alpha rules to see just how balanced and effective it is.

They were also saying that all the rules had to be translated from Italian. So not only is there a bit more detail that hasn't be translated yet, but that they had some concerns about how wording would translate in the alpha so some small things might change.

Did they really say no siege rules? I thought someone said at some point there would be. Huh, good to know.

I'm really interested in the peasant rabble, even though its coming out later. They were saying in the comments that they intend to build the sprue so you can build the models in a couple of different ways. The main ones they mentioned is that they want you to be able to build them either as rabble like militia, more normal looking townsfolk NPC's, or as rioters.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2018, 09:07:07 PM »
Did they really say no siege rules? I thought someone said at some point there would be. Huh, good to know.

I could be wrong, of course. I think there have been comments both negative and more recently positive. Perhaps they imply that the basic rules that come out in May do not have siege rules incorporated, but later on they plan to do it.

-Z
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Offline Gankom

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2018, 12:54:30 AM »
Ah that does make sense. I have seen several comments mentioning they would keep it pretty basic at first.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2018, 03:55:44 PM »
Looks like this one has taken a good step towards funding over the past couple of days. Only 5.5K to go atm. I think it's given that it will fund a day or two before the finish. So there could be a stretch goal or two included - the mounted characters, and somethin little more if Fireforge adds something to chase for past 140K.

But no other human faction or the fantasy races. Unless something totally fantastic happens.

-Z
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:36:56 PM by Zygmund »
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2018, 05:35:14 PM »
Yes, I'd be surprised if it doesn't fund now.
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Offline Padre

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2018, 08:08:15 PM »
I love the look of the undead knights, and the undead rabble-types, but they would be of use to me now, not next March (or whenever it is). By then I might want something quite different.

Ah well - I've still got LOADS to paint. I'll no doubt end up buying them eventually.
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #71 on: Today at 02:08:04 AM »
I love the look of the undead knights, and the undead rabble-types, but they would be of use to me now, not next March (or whenever it is). By then I might want something quite different.

Ah well - I've still got LOADS to paint. I'll no doubt end up buying them eventually.

No, you should support this KS now, help to bring your liked sets into production, and get yourself a pleasant surprise next spring! :)

I'd suggest you pledge for the Living Dead Horde at 48 . It's good value at three boxes, as it gets you an extra sprue and the undead characters too. Or go for the Soldier pledge at 64 for double boxes of the undead knights and zombies each, and get some additional living characters. Or add a box of the living sort of rabble too. You're gonna love it, and especially we'll gonna love it when you paint them and tell their story in one of your reports!

Really, the Tileans do need some reinforcements too. Maybe call them marines, a nucleus of a potential new faction or a mercenary force to tip the balance if one of your firends loses too badly. Take the Starter Set with the Northmen. They're great. The extra stuff at this level is also very convincing. You need that graveyard too, both as a resting place for all the fallen in your campaign, and a potential home for future undead... What's not to like in the deal?

I'd bet the clarity of the sculpts combined with your strong painting style would make everything look superb!

Anyway, that's the route I was swallowed into this, and am now further above the Starter Set level...  :lol: :lol: :lol:

-Z
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Offline Gankom

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #72 on: Today at 04:01:20 AM »
And can I point out the wonderful undead doggo kits that come with the undead knights, as well as the fine folk rabble that would look perfect in whatever town your mercenaries are capturing?

Shill! Shill! Shill!

Offline Midaski

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #73 on: Today at 09:42:55 AM »
Currently it's there by 35.00

Now just as long as a few wimps do not drop out.

My son and I are both in, but he seems to think there is a tendency for people to drop out if the KS only just makes it. I found that surprising but I suppose if it means that stretch goals are not met then some may consider the package not worth it. Hopefully as Fireforge have reduced targets and increased unlocked items to encourage participation, that will be enough.
Quote from: Gneisenau
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Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Fireforge Games - Forgotten World kickstarter (20.09.2018)
« Reply #74 on: Today at 04:01:04 PM »
So I finally pledged.

Only for a Northmen Detachment, but maybe I'll add something else before it's all done.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb