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Author Topic: Fantasy Tribes Brown Orcs Project (Nearly Finished!?)  (Read 4224 times)

Offline Shadespyre

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Fantasy Tribes Brown Orcs Project (Nearly Finished!?)
« on: October 07, 2018, 01:10:41 PM »
In amongst my many, many miniatures I have this little lot...




Those are all old Citadel Orcs, right back from the Fantasy Tribes range from the early 80s. Absolute crackers. I've got maybe 200 of them, though quite a lot need repairs as the weapons are quite fragile.

I quite fancy doing an "Oldhammer" army in 3rd edition style (I blame ZeroTwentyThree for this). There's a few hurdles with using these minis, though...

1 - they don't fit the army list too well (lots of heavy armoured and unarmoured models, no cavalry or chariots or war machines to speak of)
2 - lack of musicians and standard bearers - these really are minis designed for D&D, not for Warhammer!
3 - goblins - there were four or five styles of goblins in this era, which should I use?
4 - goblins again - just try collecting any number of goblins from this era, they are shockingly rare and expensive

An alternative project would be to use some of these guys to make a less wargamesy more RPGy Orc force, which is what they were really designed for and frees me from worrying about any of those issues...

Any thoughts anyone has are welcome. I won't even think about starting anything till Christmas anyway.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 10:32:28 PM by Shadespyre »

Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 01:36:41 PM »
I would go rpg style and have at it. I envy your organizational skills to a high degree 😸
Mathi Alfblut Feb 4,2017
Simple, You gut the bastard with your sword, the viking way.
Questions?

Mathi Alfblut Dec 9,2017
Get a binge of Yule ale, roasted boar and some proper axes and we will ALL be happy again!

GP Aug 8, 2019
Can we just take a hammer to it, smash it into little bits.

Offline orcyboy

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 07:53:49 AM »
I don't care what you do with them but you better do something with them. Those old orcs are awesome! I never appreciated how cool they were until I got a hold of some of my own.

I of course encourage using them for a 3rd edition army. There's no reason you have to stick strictly to the 3rd edition Warhammer Armies book, the beauty of the old editions is their purposeful open ended format.

As far as the lack of musicians and standards, I know what you mean. I think the only slotta base Orc musician and standard I've seen are the ones that came with the Harboth and the Black Mountain Boys regiment of renown. 
But your Orcs with broken weapons might be usefully converted into standards and musicians.

http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-ol-rusty-axe-gang-pt-2.html

Offline Padre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2018, 08:18:32 AM »
I have most of those in the first pic. Had em since the early 80s. They hardly ever get onto the table now. They're great.
Photobucket has graciously resurrected my pictures, so my collected works thread is suddenly working again - see http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38528.0. To see my slowly growing website go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline Shadespyre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 11:54:44 AM »
http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-ol-rusty-axe-gang-pt-2.html

Thanks for the link! It's nice to see that they paint up well - older minis can be a little hard to get the best out of, I find. I do actually have a small regiment of the old Harboth's, as it happens.

It seems there's some enthusiasm for this project. Mind you, if I posted some of my other possible Old Minis projects, you'd be enthusiastic about those, too!  :icon_wink: Maybe I'll sort myself out one regiment to paint up, and see how I get on with them?

Offline Padre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 01:05:50 PM »
I think some of mine can be seen here, manning ('orcing'?) some swivel guns ...

Photobucket has graciously resurrected my pictures, so my collected works thread is suddenly working again - see http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38528.0. To see my slowly growing website go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Online GamesPoet

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 02:48:57 PM »
I love 'em! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::

I have some older goblins that I once base coated, and this is inspiring me to dig them out and get them painted.  Course fi I could just get my 6 mounted crossbow dudes done first. :icon_lol:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 04:23:54 PM »
Quote GP:
I have some older goblins that I once base coated, and this is inspiring me to dig them out and get them painted.  Course fi I could just get my 6 mounted crossbow dudes done first. :icon_lol:


You do realize, these 6 crossbowmen could well be your albatross about your neck. We will not let you forget 😸
Mathi Alfblut Feb 4,2017
Simple, You gut the bastard with your sword, the viking way.
Questions?

Mathi Alfblut Dec 9,2017
Get a binge of Yule ale, roasted boar and some proper axes and we will ALL be happy again!

GP Aug 8, 2019
Can we just take a hammer to it, smash it into little bits.

Online GamesPoet

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 04:30:28 PM »
I have other crossbowmen that need finishing too, but ... it's the 6 mounted crossbowmen that I need to finish. :icon_wink:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline zak

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2018, 04:52:35 PM »
they will be cool no matter what you use them for  :::cheers:::
"Fight your foes in the field, nor be burnt in your house!"

Offline Shadespyre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2018, 05:50:40 PM »
I should possibly also admit that I am strongly considering painting these not-green... consider yourselves warned!  :icon_mrgreen:

Offline orcyboy

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2018, 08:35:48 PM »
I should possibly also admit that I am strongly considering painting these not-green... consider yourselves warned!  :icon_mrgreen:

I am surprisingly open minded about the color of "greenskins"; browns, oranges, purples or whatever are all fair game imo. Goblinoids is probably the better term over greenskins.

Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2018, 11:29:01 PM »
Agree👆
Mathi Alfblut Feb 4,2017
Simple, You gut the bastard with your sword, the viking way.
Questions?

Mathi Alfblut Dec 9,2017
Get a binge of Yule ale, roasted boar and some proper axes and we will ALL be happy again!

GP Aug 8, 2019
Can we just take a hammer to it, smash it into little bits.

Online GamesPoet

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  • Happy Summer! : )
Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2018, 11:53:33 PM »
If I recall, during my early rpg days Orcs were red, goblins were green, and kobolds were black.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2018, 05:00:06 AM »
Woohoo! Excited to see this project.

I should possibly also admit that I am strongly considering painting these not-green... consider yourselves warned!  :icon_mrgreen:

:::cheers::: Looking forward to this as well.

I agree with orcboy's comment above, in terms of adapting/converting other minis to standards and musicians. Even with "newer" old minis, like the Jes Goodwin/3rd. ed. Skaven, I ended up doing a lot of that.

As far as a 3rd ed. army, and the lists...



Fudge it. Adapt it. You don't need all the bells and whistles... or,  if you really want them, convert or find some appropriate equivalents!  :wink:


Offline Shadespyre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 09:22:34 PM »
The original Citadel Colour paints included Orc Brown and Hobgoblin Orange alongside Goblin Green and Ghoul Grey.

I think Kev Adams may even have invented green goblinoids (outside of The Green Goblin, I guess!)?

The original Monster Manual has orcs as "brown or brownish green" with a "bluish sheen" and "pinkish snouts and ears" - these re your pig-faced style orcs, though. Why GW broke ranks with the AD&D orc picture I don't know. Meanwhile Goblins are yellow / orange / brick red in colour, and hobgoblins reddish brown with orange-red faces. So there!

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 11:10:11 PM »
The original Citadel Colour paints included Orc Brown and Hobgoblin Orange alongside Goblin Green and Ghoul Grey.

I think Kev Adams may even have invented green goblinoids (outside of The Green Goblin, I guess!)?

The original Monster Manual has orcs as "brown or brownish green" with a "bluish sheen" and "pinkish snouts and ears" - these re your pig-faced style orcs, though. Why GW broke ranks with the AD&D orc picture I don't know. Meanwhile Goblins are yellow / orange / brick red in colour, and hobgoblins reddish brown with orange-red faces. So there!

Shadespre is right. Until the 70's or 80's, Orc's were usually depicted with brownish skin but for whatever reason, Games workshop started painting them green which gave birth to greenskins as we know them today

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 10:50:01 PM »
Started looking for your undead plog, but got lazy pretty quick. Going to post this here. It made me think of your army...

https://www.facebook.com/warploqueminiatures/photos/a.316049728443163/1889399017774885/?type=3&source=57

Offline Shadespyre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 11:17:18 AM »
Ah, nice. He'd go well with my conversion of their Unithorn.

Offline Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2018, 08:10:56 PM »
Padre, how did you get those swivel guns? I have a particular purpose in mind for which such pieces would suit nicely.
The only good thing about 7th ed heads is that they look particularly inbred and superstitious which is perfect for Stirlanders

Offline Padre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2018, 09:10:23 PM »
I got them from a model shop - the kind that does model railways and remote control cars and (most importantly) model ships - including the ones you make from scratch with balsa etc. They're little brass barrels, which come in various sizes (different scales &/or different sized guns). I built the stands and mounts from bits of wood & sprue & pins and what not.

Can't remember the make etc, and the shop is long since shut (the internet killed it, plus the fact that the owners' son didn't want to run it when his dad died) but the following links, if they work for you, give an idea ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Artesania-Latina-CANNONS-BRASS/dp/B003TQOE72/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1540069549&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=small+brass+cannon

or

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CANNON-FOR-SAILING-SHIPS-HISTORICAL-BARREL-HB1501-AKKURA-/361494081157?hash=item542ab9ee85
Photobucket has graciously resurrected my pictures, so my collected works thread is suddenly working again - see http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38528.0. To see my slowly growing website go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline Padre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2018, 09:11:43 PM »
This sort of thing ...
Photobucket has graciously resurrected my pictures, so my collected works thread is suddenly working again - see http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38528.0. To see my slowly growing website go to https://bigsmallworlds.com/

Offline Shadespyre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2018, 12:58:03 PM »
Nice non-canon cannon interlude there...

Goblins!


3 - goblins - there were four or five styles of goblins in this era, which should I use?
4 - goblins again - just try collecting any number of goblins from this era, they are shockingly rare and expensive


Citadel Goblins 1979-1983. It's actually a bit of a mess, with models of different styles being introduced all over, and old models being kept in production alongside them. Even the early C series range is a mess. It's not until 1984, or arguably even the mid 80s and slotta bases, that Citadel actually get all their models ranges into order. Goblins are as good / bad example of this mess as any.


Fiend Factory Goblins c1979



I think these are the earliest. I always think of these as "Eastern" goblins because of their little hats, and because the broken spears once had long naginata-like blades . They are very dapper, orderly looking chaps, as Warhammer goblins go - but these are pre-Warhammer, D&D goblins. I think if they were human sized they'd make great AD&D Hobgobs. The wolf shield motif is nice.

Fantasy Tribes Gnolls / Goblins c1981



Yes kids, these were gnolls until 1982. Nope, I dunno.

I split the picture to show the main variation here, namely the bat-ears on some of the models, which I personally think are great. The small-eared chaps at the top also have a tendency to bushy eyebrows, which honestly makes them look quite gnomish...



Quite alot of this range are mail armoured, and there is a Norman theme to their helmets and even some kite shields (as were prevalent on the Fantasy Tribes Dwarves)

Fiend Factory Orcs / Half-Orcs / Red Goblins c1982



Absolute naming chaos. Looking very little like anything else in the goblin ranges, these were the only Wolf riders you could buy until about 1987 I think! (Gnolls / Great Goblins were all riding Boars at this time). There were some infantry figures in the same style, but don't trouble yourselves with those.

C13 Night Goblins c 1983



These will look more familiar - everyone's favourite robe wearing Night Goblins appear. Of course, at this time, they were bundled in with the "Eastern" style goblins pictured earlier and also some guys who are much more akin to what we now think of as a GW Goblin.

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT - the "what are the correct goblins to use with early Orcs" problem.


Online GamesPoet

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2018, 01:11:46 PM »
Interesting!  I recall seeing some of these as a youngster, and good to see them again. :icon_cool:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline Shadespyre

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Re: Possibly Maybe My Next Army Project
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2018, 02:48:14 PM »
More hurdles! Replacement weapons. I'm going to need lots of weapons for repairing these orcs. One option is to make moulds from the originals and copy them. Let's call this the hard option! An easier option would be to source new parts. If anyone has any suggestions for weapons, especially scimitars like these, in metal or plastic or even resin, that'd be useful.