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Author Topic: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)  (Read 362 times)

Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« on: March 31, 2019, 12:32:23 AM »


The Maidens mountain range in Equitaine may be a reference to the Massif Central of France, moved up northwest and stretching into the equivalent of Brittany. At a guess, the Maidens from foothills to mountain tops may harbour settled Equitainians and human brigands alike, as well as monsters in general, Greenskin highlanders and some minor Dwarven Holds (because it would be a wasted opportunity to not have some living Dwarven presence here, aside from ruined overrun Holds). As to Dwarves, let's take these mountains as an open invitation to propose that the most Celtic-based of Vetian Dwarves live in the Maidens, and possibly the Dwarves of the Maidens could be the closest link in the occassional and fragile contact between Vetian and the Northern Dwarves. The Dwarves of the Maidens, being peripheral compared to the Dwarrows of the White Mountains, would not be a particularly strong driving force in the Vetian Dwarves' innovations and scientific discoveries, though they would fully partake of this culture of shared knowledge and technology, and their arsenal would essentially be the same. The aesthetic style and dialect, however, would be distinct.





As of present, Westwind Productions' Dwarf Wars range (both Shaven and Scots) contain some kits that could be of interest for anyone wishing to inject even more Celtic styles into their Dwarves, and there are probably other models in a similar vein from other companies.

Please share your ideas, comments and criticism for this quick Dwarven culture proposal. :)


Reference images (concept drawing partially inspired by Sergio Artigas' Lotr artwork of Firebeards):








Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2019, 01:37:29 AM »
This is how I imagine some of the early Imperial and maybe even Bretonnian cultures rather than dwarfs.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2019, 07:19:28 AM »
Aye! But in case of Celts and Vikings, there's an overlap where both Humans and Dwarves draw on the same cultures.  :-D
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 09:52:03 PM by Karak Norn Clansman »

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2019, 12:14:48 PM »
How do you mean?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2019, 09:51:46 PM »
Not even touching on the Celtic streak in Wood Elves, Warhammer's Dwarfs have a dose of Celtic designs in them (random examples; check this Longbeard standard bearer's helmet, or this plastic Dwarf Larynx horn), while Matthew Klaas de Witte's homebrew take on Albion is a Celtic la Téne culture of fantasy Humans. Creative overlap with culture mined for both Dwarfs and Humans.

Likewise, Warhammer also sported both Norscan Humans and Norse Dwarfs in Kraka Drak. Old Norse overlap for both Dwarfs and Humans. Carried over into T9A, with good reason, too.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 09:54:34 PM by Karak Norn Clansman »

Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 12:26:32 PM »
Some interesting input for this concept:

Quote from: Ghiznuk
I'm a quarter Auvergnat and I totally confirm that my grandma was very Dwarvish. Although a well-educated one.
Auvergnat people traditionally were coal-sellers in all French major cities. Although my grandma's family moved to Belgium in the 1920s to sell pots and kitchenwares.
They have big moustaches and a special « sh » accent.
Their cows look pretty dwarvish, too.



C-P Models' Celtic Dwarfs:

Quote from: infamousme
Just gonna unload these here.


Of possible interest, although some may need shortening: Highly interesting new bitz: Ancient shield sprues from Victrix now available separately. See Celtic shields.

Gallic shield pack


Offline Zygmund

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 10:59:07 AM »
Why would the Dwarfs of the Maidens rely on ancient military technology, when the people around them are on the late medieval or renaissance technological level?

What kind of contacts do the Dwarfs have with other Dwarfs, notably the ancient holds in the White Mountains? Are they trading directly, or only via human hands between? How much do their cultures and technologies differ?

Since the NW Maidens essentially create a mountainous peninsula similar to Brittany, with a long shoreline and  abundant protected harbours, how about Dwarf sailors?

Would these Dwarfs have a trading relationship with the High Elf sea empire? How would that have influenced their culture? Did the Elfs perhaps force them away from the coasts?

Not that the Dwarfs of the Maidens couldn't have their own oldschool cow-herding highlanders. But the main aspects of their culture, visible to outsiders, probably has a different outlook.

-Z
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Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 11:38:45 AM »
They explicitly don't rely on ancient military technology. They are fully modern, with the same extensive arsenal (war machines, Ironbreaker-equivalents etc).

But the aesthetic style is ancient Celtic, at least in my proposal concept.

They probably trade a good deal with other Dwarves via human middlehands, but the more important inter-Dwarf contacts and trade probably goes directly by armed Dwarven caravans through human territory (ancient treaties of passage and so on), I'd imagine. Often on sturdy ancient Dwarf roads, partially maintained by Dwarves today.

Love the idea of Dwarf sailors here! And great question on Elven relations.  :::cheers:::

Certainly so, on the main visible aspects of their culture.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 12:05:14 PM »
Well, the combination of late medieval or renaissance armour and Celtic (or possibly Nordic) looks is already well present in the older and newer GW Dwarf range.

The C-P Celtic Dwarfs are really nice figures (and nicely painted too!), but their armour would be outdated by Equitanian or Empire standards. That's why my comment.

About Dwarf port towns and sailors: There is trade connecting The Empire with Destria, convoys of big ships, which circumvent the Maidens peninsula. They would need rather advanced port facilities if they dock. And dwarven engineering probably can provide such. So the Dwarfs of the Maidens could actually be quite good port/docks engineers. Also they might be regularly enlisted as ship craftsmen. I would imagine their physique wouldn't make them good sailors, climbing the masts and such, but where strength and stamina are needed, a Dwarf could earn more than a deck hand.

-Z
Simulation over gaming. Because fantasy matters.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 03:20:07 PM »
Below decks they would be very handy.
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Offline Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 10:05:56 PM »
Zygmund, I'm not sure how their armour would be outdated. Was late medieval chainmail really that different from ancient chainmail? Models wearing full hauberks of chainmail or close enough should be an appropriate representation of T9A heavy armour, which is what most dwarfs wear.

The missing link would rather be plate-armoured elite dwarfs. That would be a creative space to be filled, how to make plate armour according to Celtic aesthetics, i.e. how one could imagine Celts would make plate armour had it existed at the time.
The only good thing about 7th ed heads is that they look particularly inbred and superstitious which is perfect for Stirlanders

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 05:50:15 AM »
The point is that late medieval professional warriors and soldiers wouldn't be happy about wearing a mail hauberk only. Even the peasant warriors of Gotland, in late 14th century, wore coats of plate (brigandine) with added protection for arms and legs. Forearms especially were covered since the late 12th century.

As Dwarfs have hammers designed for armour breaking, crossbows and black powder, they must be aware of the need for added protection.

Of course mail hauberks were used up until the 17th century. Because mail is much better than nothing. But I imagine the Dwarfs in the 9th Age Vetia know what is still better than mail, and would prefer that.

There were regions in Eurasia and Africa where military technology lagged behind. And hot climate would make heavy armour very uncomfortable. But the Dwarfs of the Maidens, I think, are not representing those cultures and climes. You can find the Vetian savages represented by Beastmen and Goblins, for example.

-Z
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 06:02:49 AM by Zygmund »
Simulation over gaming. Because fantasy matters.

Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 06:06:03 AM »
Ah yes, you are certainly correct as regard the C-P Dwarf models, Zygmund! I was thinking in terms of background brainstorming, but model-wise I agree.

It's the usual fantasy stuff: Rule of cool at work. They look Celtic to boot. But if I were to get some of those models, I'd convert extra armour on a lot of them (I've aleady done so with plastic GW Dwarfs in the past).

I think ordinary GW Ironbreakers and metal Longbeards would work fine as they are in such an army. Though optimally with hexagonal shields to blend in better.


Longbeards (some of the most characterful models ever released) painted by Mousekiller.
Note Standard Bearer's helmet, clearly a Celtic reference.

Excellent thoughts on Dwarves of the Maidens, harbour facilities and the sea, Zygmund! I'm sharing your writings here right away on all other forums, due credit of course given.

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2019, 06:32:25 AM »
Agree on The rule of cool.  :::cheers:::

-Z
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Offline Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2019, 04:19:41 PM »
The point is that late medieval professional warriors and soldiers wouldn't be happy about wearing a mail hauberk only.

Neither are Dwarven professional warriors and soldiers in T9A doing that, I'd say. I actually had a look at which dwarf armybook unit entries have what, and here's the tally:

HEAVY ARMOUR:
Clan Warriors
Greybeards
Clan Marksmen
Miners
Rangers
Artillery crewmen

PLATE ARMOUR:
Anvil of Power (guards)
Deep Watch
King's Guard
Hold Guardians
Forge Wardens
+all characters that have any kind of armour

Of course, there's little T9A background released, but it seems to me like the ones in the heavy armour category aren't professional soldiers, but rather mobilized conscripts. Regular clan members called to arms, with greybeards being the same but of higher veterancy. Rangers might be professional soldiers, but I could imagine chainmail being more appropriate for them due to being easier to handle and maintain while out ranging far beyond the reach of regular military logistics. Artillery crew would likely be professional soldiers, but I can imagine armour not being a priority due to them not being frontline troops. Those troops who do have plate armour, on the other hand, sound more like professional soldiery by their names imo.
The only good thing about 7th ed heads is that they look particularly inbred and superstitious which is perfect for Stirlanders

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Dwarven Holds of the Maidens (T9A Celts)
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2019, 06:53:21 PM »
Yes, T9A has upgraded Dwarf armour. Although WYSIWYG is more a hindrance than a benefit for the general hobbyist, the background should, in my opinion, support the rulings. So greaves, vambraces, lamellar/scales and metal helmets in addition to mail hauberks, if hvy armour is intended.

Many classic Dwarf models, by GW and others, are clad in Lt armour, mirroring the classic rules.

-Z
Simulation over gaming. Because fantasy matters.