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Author Topic: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army  (Read 192 times)

Offline markamadeo

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[8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« on: July 10, 2019, 11:59:28 PM »
Hey I'm looking into getting back into warhammer having not played since the 6th edition.  Wanted to restart collecting some models as I no longer have my old 3000 point army, and wanted to start small.  I've read the 8th edition rules, but never played it before so looking for a second opinion.  My army:

Heroes (25%)
Master Engineer                                  65
Witch Hunter w/ Brace of Pistols & GW  60

Core (26%)
10 Halberdiers                                     60
5 Archers Detachment                          35
5 Archers Detachment                          35

Special (24%)
5 Pistoliers w/ mus and Brace of RP      120

Rare (25%)
HBLG                                                  125

Basic strategy would be to deploy the ME with the helblaster and the witch hunter (general) with an archer detachment.  Archers are used as chaff: blocking charges and protecting the HBVG for a couple turns.  Pistoliers used to deal with problem units like flyers threatening my helblaster, or route chaff.  After archers and HBVG weaken the enemy for a couple turns, hopefully halberdiers will be able to finish off anything remaining with the help of a flank/rear charge of the pistoliers.

Current pitfalls I see are that the army will be weak to enemy magic due to not having any battle wizards.  Couldn't really fit them in with the point limitation and not sure what I would cut.  I'm hoping that by buying a cheaper Witch Hunter, I could target the enemy wizard and hope to snipe/duel him.

Another pitfall is the low leadership and lack of a BSB.  Fleeing archer detachments from magic missiles and shooting may cause my entire army to end up running.  Not sure how I could fit a BSB into the army though without sacrificing power from the HBVG.

Thanks for the help  :smile2:

Offline Warlord

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 11:24:26 PM »
Main weakness I see is very poor combat potential. If you want chaff, take free company in size of 5 instead of archers. Cheaper, die as easily, more useful on the charge, and allow you to put more points into halberdier unit.

Either that or take 2 units of 10 halberds - a lot more threatening, and flexible too in case you lose one.

Personally I think you are putting too much into characters.... a level 1 wizard would be more effective than Witch Hunter to my mind, as all those magic dice each turn are going to waste...

I love the model and the inclusion in the rules, but have rarely seen a good opportunity to use one. I guess your hope is the enemy spends more points on wizards... what armies are you expecting to face?
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline markamadeo

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2019, 01:48:29 AM »
Yeah I think you are right about the chaff.  At low points, archers are worth too many points to be chaff.  I'll switch it up to free company.  Additional attacks are always nice.  I'll play around with the numbers to get maximum halberdiers as I can.

I agree that L1 Wizard would be more effective than a Witch Hunter.  Originally I was going to go for the Wizard but I could only squeeze 60 points in my 25% hero limit if I went for the Master engineer.  Lowest I get with a Battle Wizard is 65 points.  My main strategy revolved around using the HBVG for as many turns as possible and trying to force panic tests.  Do you think that the Engineer is worth it at this number of points?  If you were to choose a lore for 1 level 1 wizard, I'm assuming the best to go with is Shadows or Death?

Personally I'd like to keep the HBVG if possible as I want to build up to a larger army eventually, and HBVG was my favorite unit to deploy in 6th edition.

Thanks again for your reply  :smile2:

edit:  Shoot just realized that I forgot to mention that I normally battle Orcs & Goblins and sometimes Mortal Chaos (Khorne).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 01:50:36 AM by markamadeo »

Offline Warlord

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2019, 06:56:25 AM »
Helblaster in small battles is pretty powerful. Some people loved an engineer with theirs, i was one that didnít and preferred redundancy, however thats an option for larger size battles rather than small.

Personally I prefer greatswords as special and basic knights as chaff at that size battle, because leadership is good, armour and strength is better and you can take less characters. However that wont work that well against Khorne Warriors.
Do you know if the O&G player prefers Orcs, Goblins or a mix? I think you will struggle against a bunch of Night Goblin units - he will overwhelm you with numbers... the HBVG will eat any enemy cavalry, monsters or elites though.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline markamadeo

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2019, 07:49:49 PM »
O&G player has a mix of Orc Boyz and Night Goblins, but tends to favor the Orcs (and Black Orcs).  I don't think he has any units savage orcs or regular goblins, but he has pretty much every other type of unit there is in the army list.  Chaos player has a much smaller army but access to chaos warriors, marauders, warhounds, and knights.  I don't think he has any of the Chaos monstrous units at the moment.

Offline Warlord

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 04:30:01 AM »
If he favours Orcs, I think your list will do well enough. Black orcs will be a point sink. A big unit of orcs could be trouble, but depends what support he takes with it.
If he goes Goblin Heavy I think you will struggle. Lots of Night Goblin units will flank you and you wont be able to kill enough. He will also get two Wolf Rider units for your one pistoliers, which is fine, they effectively neutralise each other. One will get shot up, the other will inflict more damage on the charge. And their magic is cheaper and fairly deadly. Fanatic will run amok - his best strategy for killing your pistoliers.

Against Khorne, Warriors and Knights would be best shot up by the HBVG and pistoliers, and your free company chaff can combat hounds well enough. It all depends on if he takes a big unit of warriors to just steam roll - that will be a challenge - avoidance is best there. Keep in mind 8th ed victory conditions - I dont think there are points for half strength? Marauder cav is great, and Marauder foot warriors will outclass your halberdiers.

Overall your list has good options, and against those armies should do ok, but depends on their choices too, and how strong magic is the first few rounds.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 09:14:57 AM »
- At this level of points, I would take only one character. I would take either a Warrior Priest or a Battle Captain, with some equipment for survival (Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield or Dragonhelm). I am more inclined to use the Warrior Priest, to make better use of the Magic Phase. If you do take a Wizard, Fire is definitely the best lore for small games. In that case, you might also consider to give him the Ruby Ring of Ruin. Remember that the Lore Attribute also applies to Bound Spells. Edit: It is, as it were, a second Fire Wizard for 25 points. Of course, if you do not take a Wizard, you can still give the RRR to the WP or Captain.

- I should think that the Halberdier unit is far too small: they tend do die quickly. I would increase them to 20, and add at least a musician. That gives them a chance of being steadfast. 

- As Warlord says, Archers are too expensive (at least in a small game). In bigger games, they are very useful as Wizard bunkers (but then a unit of at least 10).
 
- The HBVG can stand on its own. Although there is great synergy with the Master Engineer, in lower points games the points are better spent elsewhere.

- Even though they are not fast cavalry, Knights are a good alternative, as Warlord says. At lower level games, most armies will have difficulty in dealing with the +1 AS. Indeed, you might even consider using one of our best, if not the best unit: Demigryph Knights. A unit of 3 (perhaps with musician) would cost 174 points (184 with musician). But that may depend on the models you have.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 01:08:55 PM by Fidelis von Sigmaringen »
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Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 09:53:31 AM »
To add: since Knights are core, you might even consider a Cavalry Only list.
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Offline markamadeo

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 10:20:04 PM »
Thank you for the advice guys!  I think I'm going to try taking out the Master Engineer and Witch Hunter and just use a Battle Wizard with the RRR.  I think I'm going to try replacing my core allowance with 5 Inner Circle Knights.  I did really like pistoliers in 6th edition and feel like a AP fast cavalry unit would be very useful in a small battle like this to protect the HBVG, and flanking, picking up some Demigryph Knights and switch them out to see how I like them.

Offline Warlord

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2019, 01:16:06 AM »
Oh Pistoliers are still a great choice.

That said, you could consider swapping them out for outriders, and buying the champion repeater pistol(s)?
I seem to remember the output being fairly similar with a champ with repeater to a unit of regular pistoliers, but you also have the flexibility of sitting back and shooting at long range too.

A more outlandish tactic, and one of that often makes you question if you should move them or not, but might be worth a ponder.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2019, 07:36:17 PM »
@markamade: Would you mind telling us how it went?
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2019, 11:36:16 AM »
Been enjoying this conversation, thank you gentlemen.  It has been a good reminder of playing WFB when it was cool. :::cheers:::

I'd enjoy learning how things went too! :icon_cool:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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Offline markamadeo

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Re: [8th Edition] Advice on 500 pt Army
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2019, 06:20:23 PM »
Will do.  Battle is next weekend :)  :smile2: