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Author Topic: Ward Save Questions  (Read 137 times)

Offline Jhonmicky

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Ward Save Questions
« on: July 19, 2019, 10:35:26 AM »
Hello everyone,,
So, I'm not sure how this works...
If you have an Arch Lector mounted on the War Altar, he has the Armor of Destiny and the Obsidian Amulet, does his ward against magic missiles only go to a 3++?  There are plenty of 2++ ward saves vs flaming attacks.  Also, does the MR2 confer to the Altar as well?

Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Ward Save Questions
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2019, 11:17:55 AM »
Regarding your first question: no. Since the AoD provides a 4+ ward and the Obsidian Amulet a 2+ bonus, the AL would have a 2++ against damage from spells.

BRB p. 72: "A model with Magic Resistance has a bonus to its ward saves when saving against damage caused by spells. This bonus is based on the number shown in brackets after the Magic Resistance special rule. Magic Resistance (2) would give a +2 bonus (turning a 5+ ward save into a 3 + ward save, for example). Magic resistance can even give a ward save to models that do not have one at all. A model with Magic Resistance (3) and no ward save normally would therefore have a 4+ ward save against damage from spells."


Regarding your second question: no. 

BRB p. 105: "We assume that special rules that apply to a ridden monster do not normally also apply to character riding it and vice versa (with the same exceptions that apply to cavalry models, which are listed on page 82)."

Ward saves (including MR) are no listed as an exception. This was further specified in BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p. 11:

Q: Does a ridden monster benefit from any ward save that its rider possesses or vice versa? (p105)
A: No.

Some may be misled by BRB p. 72 (Magic Resistance) which also states: "If a character with Magic Resistance joins a unit, all models in the unit benefit from the Magic Resistance."

However, being mounted on a ridden monster is not joining a unit.
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Online Padre

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Re: Ward Save Questions
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2019, 12:12:49 PM »
Some may be misled by BRB p. 72 (Magic Resistance) which also states: "If a character with Magic Resistance joins a unit, all models in the unit benefit from the Magic Resistance."

However, being mounted on a ridden monster is not joining a unit.

(In no way disparaging you, Fidelis, but) Here, once again, the RAW rules are silly! Riding a monster is a far more intimate connection/conjoining than simply being with a bunch of fighters! The 'in-world' magical mechanics of this situation would have to be tortuously weird.
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Re: Ward Save Questions
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2019, 12:35:39 PM »
It is not an issue of RAW, though. RAW=RAI, as is confirmed by the FAQ quoted. That was already the case in earlier editions. Even in the 7th edition Empire AB, the AL only could benefit from the War Altar ward save, because the WA rules specifically said so. Nevertheless, in previous editions MR did confer to the mount and vice versa, but, as you will remember, at that time, MR was not a (bonus to the) ward save, but provided extra dispel dice.
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Re: Ward Save Questions
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2019, 12:37:34 PM »
RAW or RAI, the written intention seems silly to me, in a game world sense, if perhaps not in a tabletop game sense.
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Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Ward Save Questions
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2019, 12:53:44 PM »
No objection there. Perhaps you remember the discussion about this particular Empire FAQ:

Empire Official Update Version 1.2, p.2:
Q: Does the War Altar of Sigmar confer the Stubborn special rule to any character mounted upon it? (p47)
A: No.

Initially, I too though that character & mount would fall under the same rules as a combined unit, but had to rethink that position. The Stubborn special rule (BRB p 76) states: "If a character joins a Stubborn unit, he gains the Stubborn rule as long as he is part of that unit," and the FAQ works on the premise that a character riding a mount does not equal joining a unit. That said, as I was able to demonstrate then, the FAQ in question is irrelevant, because it is not the AL that takes the Break Test - it is the unit, i.e. the combined model, which undeniably does have the Stubborn special rule.
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Offline lovelash

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Re: Ward Save Questions
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2019, 09:36:09 PM »
Hello everyone,,
So, I'm not sure how this works...
If you have an Arch Lector mounted on the War Altar, he has the Armor of Destiny and the Obsidian Amulet, does his ward against magic missiles only go to a 3++?  There are plenty of 2++ ward saves vs flaming attacks.  Also, does the MR2 confer to the Altar as well?

It will give the arch lector a 2+ ward against the magical missile spells :D a ward save can be to a max of 2+ unless it states otherwise :) but in this case it I'd a 2+ ward :D also the war Alter will gain the MR2 as the whole unit gains the benefits of magic resistance, meaning the war Alter will have a 2+ ward against spells also :D also magic resistance does work on other forms of damage spells too like spirit leech etc, just not the insta kill ones :) hope this helps