Topic: Tournament List and Scenarios

[commandant]

As good a reason as any, better than most.

[Clymer]

I actually asked him about the Longbow and he said: "I took it because I had 4 points left. I shot it twice."

Ha ha! Now everyone will have a longbow on their general just because some guy was burning remainder points!

20 years from now we’ll all come back for the re-release of The Old, Old World, and longbows will be nerfed and everyone’ll be like, “Back in my day, longbows were the best shooting Empire had, now every other army has better longbows than us and ours cost 2 points more!”

[Athiuen]

Here are a few pictures from the event:

My game against the Tomb Kings:


My game against Chaos:


The Other Empire Army:

[Rodman49]

1st place in the tournament went to an unpainted army?

Oof.

I mean he's empire so we give him a pass but oof.

[Athiuen]

He was an interesting guy.
He isn't an Empire player.
He's a tournament junky and a successful one, too.
I asked him why he was playing Empire and he said it was because: "He wanted a challenge."
He tabled his opponents.

But
I did have to correct him in his second game.
He was giving his demigryph's a stomp attack.
He had incorrectly assumed that all monstrous cav got stomps.

[Skyros]

Wonder how many other rules he got wrong. And it seems like his performance is entirely reliant upon TO's allowing the 'drilled before charges' ruling.

I don't offhand have a problem with it. Drilled is in a weird spot. It either seems VERY good for its points, if you can use it to redress the ranks before a charge.
OR, it seems pretty pointless and overcosted, if you cannot.

Also, was he doing drilled directly? If he just launches a 'marching colunn flying formation' through the air to land behind the enemy line, with their backs to the enemy, his unit can't charge in the next turn because redress the ranks doesn't allow you to change facing. Was he executing a very expensive wheel?  I don't think you can perform a turn while marching, only wheels.

[Athiuen]

That's a good point. I'm not sure. Sounds like he was doing that wrong too.

[Zygmund]

Everyone is playing important situations wrong.

I just realized we played combat resolution wrong in one key combat in our last game. Forgot that double unit strength changes FBIGO into Flee. Combat resolution, of all the places!

This is good to remember when the first tournament results come: very likely people have forgotten something or played something wrong, without realizing. And it has huge impact on the result. It's still a new game, and many people are trying out new armies.

-Zyg

[Clymer]

Demigryphs and Mournfangs got stomp attacks in 8th… my first couple games I had to check myself every time.

But those are great pics, thanks for posting!

I still don’t quite understand what the conga line detachments do. Can you explain a bit how he used them?

[Dazgrim]

If he's flying/marching in column, presumably he's landing facing the direction of his choice.

[Dazgrim]

If he's flying/marching in column, presumably he's landing facing the direction of his choice.

Self correction:

Fly (X)
Many creatures of the Warhammer world can
fly, held aloft either by mighty pinions or by means of magic, soaring from one side of the
battlefield to the other.
A model with this special rule can Fly.
Models that can Fly can choose either to move normally on the ground (using their
Movement characteristic), or to move by
flying. How many inches a model can Fly
varies from model to model, and will be
shown in brackets after the name of this
special rule (shown here as ‘X’). Models
that choose to move by flying: • May move as normal (i.e., they may
charge, march and manoeuvre as if
moving on the ground), except that
they are able to pass freely above other
models, units and terrain features
without any penalty, and they can march whilst within 8" of an enemy
unit without first having to make a Leadership test. • May end their movement in terrain,
but will suffer its effects if they do. They
cannot end their movement ‘on top’ of
impassable terrain or another unit, or within 1" of an enemy unit.
Models that can Fly must begin and end
all of their movement on the ground. A
character with this special rule cannot
join a unit without this special rule, and
vice versa.

Flyers must turn and wheel as regular troops, this changes a few things.

[Rodman49]

I agree with @Dazgrim - flyers are still restricted to completing one of six maneuvers on page 124 (wheel, turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress, reform).

When marching units may only perform wheels (p. 123).

So he must be performing extensive wheels - which he very well might have the movement for because his movement would be so high.

FWIW - redressing before charging is probably the right way to play "drilled" and I think it is a very cool mechanic from WAB that makes a unit better without just pumping its stats.

[Athiuen]

I'm sure he must have been flying and wheeling to face his opponent. If he wasn't someone would have called him on it.
The Demi stomp thing is understandable, and he was happy to be corrected.

[Skyros]

It's certainly possible he was doing it correctly. Of course, no unit can wheel more than twice their movement characteristic, so no more than 8". This could well limit how much a huge bus of marching column halberdiers can wheel left or right after they land behind the enemy. I don't think it would come into play for the little detachments.

And of course the opponent could pretty much scupper this plan entirely by not deploying as far forward as humanly possible.

It's a cool trick, but not one that I think is in danger of taking over the game.

[Clymer]

A 5-wide unit with 25mm bases takes 7.75 inches to wheel 90 degrees.

It sounds like he marches in turn 1 when he his flying his detachments up the field, then flies the halberds in turn 2.

That gets him 36" across the board with a 90 degree turn at the end to bring the target unit into line of sight. That should be more than enough to make this work.

[Clymer]

And it seems like his performance is entirely reliant upon TO's allowing the 'drilled before charges' ruling.

Why wouldn't they? Drilled says you get the free redress immediately before moving. Why wouldn't you get it immediately before moving chargers?

[commandant]

It also depends on what else is in his list.   If the opponent deploys further back then you can just wait to pull off your nonsense for a turn while the opponent (or yourself) move forwards.

[Skyros]

And it seems like his performance is entirely reliant upon TO's allowing the 'drilled before charges' ruling.

Why wouldn't they? Drilled says you get the free redress immediately before moving. Why wouldn't you get it immediately before moving chargers?

That's my opinion as well. Seems pretty straightforward. But other people, ignoring that special rules trump general rules, will point out that the general rule that says you aren't allowed to do other moves if you are charging.

[Clymer]

That's an interesting perspective, thanks for pointing that out.

That paragraph about maneuvering during a charge begins, "Unless stated otherwise..." I think Drilled states otherwise. In any case, the Drilled redress does not take place during the charge. It takes place "immediately before moving". It seems pretty straight forward to me, but I've had to back pedal on other positions. If something more convincing comes up, I'm all ears, but it seems pretty clear that Drilled works before the charge and that's what was intended, otherwise it's nearly pointless.

[commandant]

It would also mean that drilled cav with counter charge can spread out which is a nice visual

[Dazgrim]

It's certainly possible he was doing it correctly. Of course, no unit can wheel more than twice their movement characteristic, so no more than 8". This could well limit how much a huge bus of marching column halberdiers can wheel left or right after they land behind the enemy. I don't think it would come into play for the little detachments.

Worth noting that for this turn the troops have a move value of 12"

[Clymer]

It's certainly possible he was doing it correctly. Of course, no unit can wheel more than twice their movement characteristic, so no more than 8". This could well limit how much a huge bus of marching column halberdiers can wheel left or right after they land behind the enemy. I don't think it would come into play for the little detachments.

Worth noting that for this turn the troops have a move value of 12"

Yep! Good catch!

[The Peacemaker]

Everyone is playing important situations wrong.

I just realized we played combat resolution wrong in one key combat in our last game. Forgot that double unit strength changes FBIGO into Flee. Combat resolution, of all the places!

This is good to remember when the first tournament results come: very likely people have forgotten something or played something wrong, without realizing. And it has huge impact on the result. It's still a new game, and many people are trying out new armies.

-Zyg

Alot of people forget about the double unit stremgth turning FBIGO to a flee. It's a very important mechanic and if playing wrong will drastically change the game.

---------

Regarding drilled:
When I was reading the army books I thought drilled dodn't work before charge and I kept wondering why Drilled cost so much points on all the units in various books. It was simply not worth the points.
But seeing that it works to spread out before a charge, it's worth its points and make sense. Gives the game some tactics.