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Galactic Conflicts => Warhammer 40k Discussion => Topic started by: MrDWhitey on January 24, 2010, 03:17:29 PM

Title: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 24, 2010, 03:17:29 PM
Much like world of warcraft sucks when compared to playing AD&D (or any other fantasy role-playing game you sit around a table playing). Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.

Amusingly a lot of 40k players say that about Fantasy.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 24, 2010, 04:12:09 PM
Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.

 :icon_lol:

I will give your crack dealer a score of 5 out of 5 for a well developed drug.

You obviously have been watching tards play if you say that, or have no idea what the game is about.

I play both and have more tactical ideas for 40K than vice versa.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on January 24, 2010, 04:52:36 PM
I find 40k more varied and tactical too, purely because it's more balanced.

With WFB, the tactics for me are 'Oh, hey, DE/DoC/VC/Lizardmen/Insert Army Here yet again, how should I prolong the inevitable?'....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 24, 2010, 06:15:49 PM
I love 40k and have slowly stopped playing fantasy because of it.

The main reason for me thinking 40k is better is the difference in the movement. The movement in fantasy is so idiotic and difficult. Whereas 40k movement is nice and easy skirmisher movement. Which makes the game much more fast and dynamic. Which i like.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: shavixmir on January 24, 2010, 06:42:34 PM
Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.

 :icon_lol:

I will give your crack dealer a score of 5 out of 5 for a well developed drug.

You obviously have been watching tards play if you say that, or have no idea what the game is about.

I play both and have more tactical ideas for 40K than vice versa.
I can't complain about my crack dealer.

40k tactics?
Dig in and shoot?
Use tanks?
Why bother? Why not just nuke the whole board in one go...

Sorry. I'm just being obnoxious. I had food poisoning and my arse feels like Big Bad Bill has been stretching it without lubricant the whole bloody weekend (and you don't want to know the rest).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 24, 2010, 06:51:46 PM
(and you don't want to know the rest).

You obviously don't know me.

Talk to me...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: shavixmir on January 24, 2010, 07:15:51 PM
(and you don't want to know the rest).

You obviously don't know me.

Talk to me...
I spent six hours puking my guts out. One moment I puked so hard that I sucked my pants up my arse and the next moment I shat that hard I blew the toilet door a second keyhole.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 24, 2010, 07:16:35 PM
I need a new pair of shorts.

Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 24, 2010, 09:34:17 PM
 :-D

Had an awesome game today, 2v2 1k a player.

Tank shocked a squad of 14 necrons off the board with a 35 point rhino.

Yes!

Aldaris, I hope my daemon prince does better against you though... he met the Nightbringer.  :icon_frown:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 24, 2010, 09:41:19 PM
Tank shocked a squad of 14 necrons off the board with a 35 point rhino.
That's awesome. I've only ever played Necrons once, with my IG. He had tons of Destroyers (are those the ones with the Multilaser equivalent?) and the Nightbringer. And he rolled like God for his saves and I'll BE BACK rolls.
It was not pretty.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 24, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
Yeah, 3 shot strength 6 but AP 4.

My ally was tau, and he was absolutely slaughtered.  :-D

Constantly driving up, tank shock/prepare, disembark, re-embark next turn and zoom off was fun.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 24, 2010, 09:58:24 PM
Yes, that's how I love to play 40k: mounted-up maneuver warfare. Last game I managed - after one turn of setting him up which he fortunately didn't spot - to cut off a large portion of his force by blocking all access off with my tanks, dismounting and slaughtering them in isolation before he managed to get reinforcements there since he had to go all the way around. After that it was wipe-time. Was a Chaos mirror-match, so especially satisfying.

Anyone who says there are no tactics in 40k doesn't know what he's talking about.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: shavixmir on January 24, 2010, 10:20:53 PM
Anyone who says there are no tactics in 40k doesn't know what he's talking about.
Anyone who plays 40k secretly wears women's knickers and doesn't shave his balls.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 24, 2010, 10:23:15 PM
It's no secret for me.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: shavixmir on January 24, 2010, 10:34:29 PM
It's no secret for me.  :engel:
You don't shave your balls?
Pffft... how terribly 80's.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Union General on January 25, 2010, 12:12:49 AM
It's no secret for me.  :engel:
You don't shave your balls?
Pffft... how terribly 80's.

*Insert Duke Nukem reference here*

Yes, that's how I love to play 40k: mounted-up maneuver warfare. Last game I managed - after one turn of setting him up which he fortunately didn't spot - to cut off a large portion of his force by blocking all access off with my tanks, dismounting and slaughtering them in isolation before he managed to get reinforcements there since he had to go all the way around. After that it was wipe-time. Was a Chaos mirror-match, so especially satisfying.

Anyone who says there are no tactics in 40k doesn't know what he's talking about.

There is strategy, just in different ways from fantasy. And those ways just happen to be the ones I'm not good at...  :dry:

-The General
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 12:23:42 AM
Anyone who plays 40k secretly wears women's knickers and doesn't shave his balls.
The secret is being able to wear womens knickers and still be manly. And if you shave your balls you're an effeminate metrosexual. Who still doesn't know what he's talking about.
 :icon_cool:

And am I noticing some topicname changing contest going on here? If there is, stop bothering. There is no fightin' the ninja mod edit.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 12:52:13 AM
40k is just as complicated as fantasy, just in different ways.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on January 25, 2010, 12:58:28 AM
In better ways IMO, since even the weakest army can subdue another, all depending on composition and tactics.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 01:20:04 AM
I 100% agree.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on January 25, 2010, 01:26:14 AM
In better ways IMO, since even the weakest army can subdue another, all depending on composition and tactics.

Really?

I've been struggling to get into 40k because I don't feel the same tactical depthness toward 40k that fantasy has.

I mean I have quite a bit of 40k but have no motivation whatsoever to play. My mates who play all say there are armies much like TK or O&G in 40k as well, Grey Knights, Necrons, Tau for example.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on January 25, 2010, 07:07:19 AM
Yep. No matter many wounds or what armour save the nasty has, your 5 point guardsman can always just take a plasma gun.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on January 25, 2010, 09:15:15 AM
They may be gimped armies, but Grey Knights in particular have options (aka being taken as allies) that make them much more effective.

Oh, and Tau are absolutely 100% ass-raping nasty in the right hands. The local guy who plays them... *shivers*

And 'Crons are, if nothing else, hideously tough.

Also, most people don't interpret their WBB rule correctly. IIRC, the way it's phrased you can't be killed by sweeping advances or something like that. Which makes them much better in CC than they would appear.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 09:19:36 AM
My mates who play all say there are armies much like TK or O&G in 40k as well, Grey Knights, Necrons, Tau for example.
There are some races stronger or weaker in 40k, but in my opinion it is nowhere near as pronounced as it is in Fantasy. Most older races can still compete fairly well, albeit with a handicap.
I like both games. Fantasy is more complex, but 40k has its own unique challenges and twists and is fast and fun to play. Plus there are tons of awesome models.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 09:21:30 AM
I have about 2000 points steel legions IG lying around bought the rulebook and the IG army book but havenīt found the courage to play the game yet.

Also with IG I donīt know what I should field somehow too much candy and I donīt know what is really needed in a 1500 game and how the resonance of special characters is.

Usarkar Creed looks nasty 40 infantry guys with kommisar and sarge also seem quite nasty

did I get it right that there is no way to pick those two out of the regiment in close combat?

I mix up last edition rules with the new ones all the time in my head.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 09:37:18 AM
You can target independent characters in cc, but only if you are in btb with them.

That said, Creed propably isn't the best choice in a 1500 points game - too expensive in my opinion. Unless you have a specific theme or strategy in mind, keep the HQ simple and useful. Give them a standard for those 12" leadership rerolls, and something to make use of that BS4, a lascannon is a nice example, a couple of meltas is another. Sit their asses in a chimera in the middle of your line. Done. Don't give in to the temptation of spending tons of points on stuff like carapace and powerfists for your boss. If he ends up being engaged he's toast anyway unless you specifically build him and his squad for that.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 25, 2010, 09:48:54 AM
Yea the only IC of the IG that you can target is the lord commisar, primaris psyker, tech priest and priest guy.

I play Grey knights and they are awfully overpriced but are still a very mobile and versatile force. Storm bolters on the whole army makes it possible to run around and avoid some charges and add some more shooting rounds.
They are having problems against orks and a horde IG army, because their troops are so expensive that you dont have enough firepower! But then you just have to think tactical.
My Grey knights are doing fairly against my opponents, but as T1million said, they can be included in an IG army for extra punch. But only the termies are worth investing in, and points well spend in my mind! It just sucks they cant have a dedicated landraider.

Anyway Fandir, I thought the same way about the IG as you do, too many choices to try out! But just start trying! Im beginning to like a mechanised force. My infantry army is suffering alot of losses.
Hmm and vendettas are awesome. Dont bother getting 3 lascannons in a heavy weapon team for 105 pts when you can get 3 twinlinked, mobile, almost free LoS cannons for 130pts
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 10:03:10 AM
Hmm and vendettas are awesome. Dont bother getting 3 lascannons in a heavy weapon team for 105 pts when you can get 3 twinlinked, mobile, almost free LoS cannons for 130pts
Dedicated HWTs are a risky proposal in general, killed much too easily since they now count as 3 2w models. One exception: Mortar teams. Those are cheap, awesome and don't need LOS. Otherwise, get heavy weapons as part of infantry squads.

As for the Vendetta, I really want to get 2 of them. Problem is cost. 2*35 pounds for the basic models, 2*12 pounds for the Forgeworld conversion kit + 6 for the decals (I like those patterns for the wings). That's 100 pounds for 2 models.
I will do it someday though...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 25, 2010, 10:18:21 AM
Yes i have also found out how awesome mortars can be :-D
I tend to put some 3 autocannons in cover somewhere just incase i go against orks with alot of trucks.
But yea instant death is their bane :/

Hmm i got two :D
I used the lascannons from the landraider sponsons and put them under the vendetta. Im going to use some lascannons from the heavy weapons for the other one i think :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 11:19:28 AM
There was a "Ritt der Walküren" Deal on Waylanders three for 65 pounds during a time 1 pound = 1 € or at least close to but I wasnīt liquid at that moment.

I thought that some scout sentinels with lascannon and hunter missle on flanking duty might be my tank busters...I have the models as the stahllegion sentinel was the one with lascannon (he has the closed cupola but I think my enemies will let them through as scout sentinels).

Other than that I like infantry ...loads of them right now I only have ~50 models and 20 cadians I havenīt put together yet, I would like to add some deathkorps of krieg as soon I swim in money my warhammer fantasy armies are completely painted and I have started to play 40K.


....

Damn I sound like Mathi.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 25, 2010, 12:19:56 PM
Yea there are some nice deals around in the world :P

i usually equip my scout sentinels with autocannons. They are cheap and fire twice the shots of a lascannon. And in my experience, they end up in some good positions where S9 isnt that important.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 12:28:35 PM
But you always get that 10 you need at least, donīt you?

So infantry with mortars and some scout sentinels with lascannons and hunter missles (do I need theses?) should be enough to deal with most threa(d)ts? I also have a single demolisher lying around and an exterminator leman russ.

The commisar and the sarge are no independent characters so can the enemy single them out or does he have to kill all 40 soldiers of the unit to get them done?

Creed has 24 inch command range and 4 orders also that one that gives a unit furious assault (or what it is called) giving them +1 I and +1 S on the charge (great for the 40 mobster unit with the 6 power weapon attacks).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 25, 2010, 12:42:53 PM
10 what?

In my mind Scout sentinels need to be cheap. They are too fragile to spend a lot of points on. So no hunter killers.
You are correct about the commissars and sergeants. They cant be targeted out in cc or shooting. This is the what the orks do with their powerklaw nobs in normal units. They protect the single ork that kills everything. :P
Its just a shame IG cant get powerfists on sergeants and squad commissars.

If you are going to get into close combat use Straken. He is awesome. And gives furious charge and counter attack to people 12" around him. And get a priest :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 12:43:04 PM
I tend to equip my scout sentinels with multilasers or autocannons, for several reasons. First, it's cheap. Scout sentinels are armored with wet toilet paper, they'll blow up as soon as someone looks at them in a threatening way. Because of that, you will almost always lose them. Quickly. So keep them expendable.

Second, they have BS 3. That means only a 50% to hit chance, with a high propability they'll never fire off another shot. That means that more shots are better than a single high-powered one. Penetrating an AV of 10 with S 6 or 7 is still very feasible.

Lascannons are so expensive you want them on units that have one or preferably both of those qualifications: good shots and/or durable. Scout sentinels are neither. That said, if you don't outflank, but deploy them in cover as part of your line they can actually be pretty good with lascannons. Because then they are durable. Sort of.
On the subject of HK missiles: depends on taste really. If you have the points left over, go for 'em.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 12:48:00 PM
If you give them camo nettings and deploy them in terrain they have a 3+ ward save right?

If I move I canīt use the camo nettings but still would have a 4+? So with lascannons and camo nettings popping out somewhere in the back moving in terrain and shooting the las cannons wouldnīt be such a bad plan?

I think I just have to make a few games and see how it works.

But right now I am happy enough that I can play a game of fantasy once in a while.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 12:52:36 PM
Fantasy is more complex, but 40k has its own unique challenges and twists and is fast and fun to play. Plus there are tons of awesome models.

How is fantasy more complex?  Because everything moves on angles?

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 12:53:52 PM
Every unit has a different move profile in 40k there are less rules and stats.

Complexity doesnīt have to be good though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 01:00:34 PM
How is fantasy more complex?  Because everything moves on angles?

Phil
Fantasy is more complex because it has more rules and exceptions to them than 40k. Movement is more complex, there is a separate magic phase, characters can be equipped for a variety of different jobs, different models have different move characteristics...
Keep in mind I do not say this in a context judging quality. Being more or less complex does not make a better or worse game.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 01:03:11 PM
There are many movement profiles in 40k:

Jump troops
Beasts
Infantry
Vehicles
Fast Vehicles
Skimmers
Squadrons

As for more rules, I don't really think so.  I think they have the same number of rules.  Whether thats all that pertinent to the complexity or not is another story.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 01:07:31 PM
There are many movement profiles in 40k:

Jump troops
Beasts
Infantry
Vehicles
Fast Vehicles
Skimmers
Squadrons

As for more rules, I don't really think so.  I think they have the same number of rules.  Whether thats all that pertinent to the complexity or not is another story.

Phil

Yes philly but ALL jump troops have the same movement and ALL vehicles and ALL infantry

if you start with the different unit types


infantry (with movement value of 3-6 sometimes even in the army different M types)
cavalry (7-10 again with different M values in the same army, equipment also modifies)
monsters (usually 6...but hey there are exceptions again and even funky stuff with 2d6 or 3d6 movement)
chariots
flyers
flying monsters
....
etc.

Every army behave completely different there are lots of armies with no shooting at all the magic in WFB is lots complexer than the 40K one (ok I cast one of the three spells I have).

 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on January 25, 2010, 01:11:34 PM
Hmm and vendettas are awesome. Dont bother getting 3 lascannons in a heavy weapon team for 105 pts when you can get 3 twinlinked, mobile, almost free LoS cannons for 130pts
Dedicated HWTs are a risky proposal in general, killed much too easily since they now count as 3 2w models. One exception: Mortar teams. Those are cheap, awesome and don't need LOS. Otherwise, get heavy weapons as part of infantry squads.

As for the Vendetta, I really want to get 2 of them. Problem is cost. 2*35 pounds for the basic models, 2*12 pounds for the Forgeworld conversion kit + 6 for the decals (I like those patterns for the wings). That's 100 pounds for 2 models.
I will do it someday though...

I've never had problems with mine somehow. Cover always seems to be enough.

That said, I generally play a spread passive offensive style, so...

And I haven't faced anyone with serious pieplate power. Yet.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 01:15:23 PM
Fandir:  It the movement differences between a M4 and M5 are enough to be termed more complicated than transports and when they can embark and disembark, or the various deep strike rules, then you are correct.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 01:18:29 PM
If you have to remember what each model has as M yes it gets difficult.

40K once you have a hang how a certain type of unit moves you are set the embark disembark rule isnīt more complicated as the enter and leave building rules.

Deepstrike is as complicated as tomb scorpions entering the table, place spot deviate check if they survive and voila done!

40K has way more weapons in its arsenal though ....at least ranged weapons close combat is kind of cc weapon, power weapon, power fist ....isnīt it?

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on January 25, 2010, 01:20:10 PM
No...

There are different CC rules for fighting vehicles, various different close combat weapons, poisoned weapons, special rules (furious charge, counter attack, etc.).

It's just as complicated as fantasy, especially as fantasy doesn't use half the weapons listed most of hte time.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 01:20:53 PM
Be that as it may, most people seem to feel that 40k is simpler rules-wise than Fantasy. But I certainly don't feel like comparing the number of rules to prove a pretty unimportant point...

t12846t94: a single Dreadnought (or worse, an ironclad) dropping down in a pod with a deathwind system can really, REALLY ruin your day. Make that two, and you can basically kiss the ass of all that expensive yet fragile infantry stuff goodbye.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 01:20:58 PM
ahhh the almighty everpresent halberd.

I think most subjectively /or objectively ( :closed-eyes:) think WFB is more complex because of the whole process of moving. Even if 40K has some pretty exact rules for moving too most people just grab their squad and place it 6 "  (or whatever the special rules out of the vast amount of rules  :engel: allows it ) and place them there.

grab place

grab place

grab place

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 01:26:47 PM
Be that as it may, most people seem to feel that 40k is simpler rules-wise than Fantasy. But I certainly don't feel like comparing the number of rules to prove a pretty unimportant point...
Quote

Most people on forums have a bias towards fantasy and also like to claim the majority of 40k players are Timmy.  Mature 40k players on the other hand will acknowledge that the two games are equally complicated.

As for movement being so complicated to remember, dwarves have M3.  That was hard.  Empire has 4, 7, and 8.  Oh and they have fliers and a stank.  Not hard.  DE have M5, 6, 7, and 9 plus fliers.  You can think of the movement numbers in your head without trouble.  It isn't like it adds anymore complication than memorizing the WS comparison chart, which everyone knows.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 01:30:14 PM

Mature 40k players on the other hand will acknowledge that the two games are equally complicated.
Oh dear. Will I have to shave and speak in a higher voice now?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 01:36:50 PM
That wasn't aimed at anyone here.  It is simply the observation that most people who make that comment have not played both systems enough to honestly say either way.  The common refrain is just "40k is for teh kids." without a thought.  Many of those people haven't used 5th edition and don't really have a clue.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 25, 2010, 01:38:02 PM
Fandir nailed it.

I hate having to Wheel, turn, reform or whatever to just get that excact angle to overrun into another enemy (which you then debate with your opponent for 15 minutes).
The other problem is that there are too many movement rules in general! Its not just the movement rate, thats easy enough, but the actions i mentioned before. They are all complicated. How many models kan you swap to the front rank with the expand frontage thing?.
We have to look that up all the time.
When we play 40k we sometimes check the book once to find something really odd or specific wording. When playing fantasy we end up checking the book several times just to check on how the "basic" movement actions actually are!

I realise 40k has its complicated rules as well but in general i think 40k is easier to learn than fantasy...
Another important thing about 40k vs. fantasy is that you NEVER use the terrain in fantasy! You avoid it like the plauge. Half movement and for what? a minus to hit modifier to the enemy? Shooting isnt even that important in fantasy.
In 40k models are litterally tumble over eachother in the terrain so they can get their precious coversave. 
It just gives the whole game another feel. Less static and more dynamic. Some guardsmen running through some craters or basilisks making new ones!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 25, 2010, 01:54:54 PM
That wasn't aimed at anyone here.  It is simply the observation that most people who make that comment have not played both systems enough to honestly say either way.  The common refrain is just "40k is for teh kids." without a thought.  Many of those people haven't used 5th edition and don't really have a clue.

Phil
That post I can agree with. 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 25, 2010, 01:57:42 PM

40K has way more weapons in its arsenal though ....at least ranged weapons close combat is kind of cc weapon, power weapon, power fist ....isnīt it?

Actually it gets a bit complicated when calculating attack bonusses. You only get an attack bonus if you have two powerfists. But can get a bonus for a CCW and powerweapon if im not mistaken. Or pistol.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 04:45:11 PM
Nobody in here said that 40k is easier or less tactical hence the wording "complex" Aldaris used. I know Philly that lots of WFB players put 40k in the little timmy corner I donīt because I know there are loads of measure / countermeasure stuff you have to think about making the game very tactical, but the fumbling around during a WFB movement phase IS definitaley more complex. (Also most warhammer fantasy players do it wrong ....do wheels by turning on the spot and overall place the unit how they want it to be ignoring most of the wheel and turn rules.....even on tournaments).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 25, 2010, 05:14:40 PM
The word fumbling is appropriate and the reason I find WFB less sophisticated than 40k.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 25, 2010, 05:49:06 PM
The word fumbling is appropriate and the reason I find WFB less sophisticated than 40k.

Phil

With the right people = less fumbling but still there are quite often issues that need the rulebook.

Somehow I still go back to WFB again and again I think I like the combat.....well I liked the combat more because static CR was more important than pure killingness.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 25, 2010, 09:58:54 PM
Well, I must say I find 40K more fun because of the simple fact that tactics, placement and such things do matter even if you have way more scary enemies. Guardsmen can still outfight what should be their "betters" in Fantasy, without the need to relly on heroes and gimmicks. In 40K, there is always a decent chance of winning, even with lowly guardsmen.

In fantasy, without a shitload of heroes, warmachines and other stuff, your state troops are toast, to the extent that you need to have balls of steel to field them, cause they will drag down your combat capacity.
In 40K, your grunts ARE your combat capacity. Sure, you can smack down elites, tanks, monsters and whatnot, but in the end, more often than not, it is the lowly grunts that win the game for you.
Not so in Warhammer.

Hence why I love 40K and find it really more satisfying and tactical.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on January 26, 2010, 12:53:29 AM
Just to recount my experiencesin 5th Ed (never played 4th only 3rd) I've got Tau and Nids (which I'm selling btw).

While there is undoubtably thought that goes into the game in the few game I've played it's always come down to "how much will I loose in his turn and how much of his stuff can I kill in mine" unlike certain games of fantasy (I realize I'm not making myself clear so will leave this analogy).

Maybe i'm just unhappy with 40k due to gaming reasons my last game with nids was against a competitive Guard army (noidea if it was or wasn't but I was told it was competitive). My nids just had to run to get in combat, evening hugging cover and trying to shoot at his stuff with my deathspitters and barbed stranglers the game devolved into a "I move forward, you shoot, I take some models off, I move forward again, O look I get to charge, kill you, now I'm in the open, I'll take those models off, I'll move forward again..."

TBH it bored the living snotlings out of me.

That said I played a Space Wolves Drop Pod assault against a Tau force last week and that was a lot of fun.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 26, 2010, 02:54:56 AM
What kind of game were you playing?  And you needed the new book.  Last edition Tyranids was kind of shit, particularly against the new IG.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on January 26, 2010, 03:02:29 AM
Not sure, I'm still pretty nooby at 5th Ed, most of the general rules I know but some of the finesse escapes me.

I'm thinking I may give it another go after April, see how things go.


Hey I was just thinking about this. But do you think some of the mentality of Fantasy > 40k is based on fluff?

40k has great fluff and from what I've seen players find it easier to fit 'movie moments' in their 40k games compared to Fantasy. I know that this is true where i'm at, 40k is the fun game fantasy is the 'mathematical' game.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 03, 2010, 11:33:47 AM
Yea perhaps.
But those movie movements could also happen in fantasy. In challenges for example. Its just that... well we have no chance against that chaos lord so we dont do it :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 03, 2010, 11:36:44 AM
I can imagine it now.

Standing before the heroic Captain Kurt Stutgart, the dreaded Chaos Lord Malre who had spent the past 10 years terrorising the Empire.

Malre noticed this stout figure amongst the throng of empire swordsmen, and cleared a space around him and beckoned to the Captain with a flourish of his sword that ended in a salute.

Kurt reacted in the only way a true soldier of the empire would

"Sergeant Stoutfellow!"

"Sir?"

"Stand in front of me"
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 03, 2010, 11:58:38 AM
HAhhahahahaha :D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on February 03, 2010, 12:14:25 PM
hahah

very well played sir. I'd doff my hat to you had tere been a correct smilely.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on February 03, 2010, 12:49:37 PM
I right now imagine the dread an empire soldier feels when he is promoted to Sergeant...

"Oh noooooo but I have family, please pick Hans over there he is better suited to lead this regiment!"

"Hans sits in a wheelchair!"

"Yes that is what I am talking about he is a bigger target for the lookout sir mission!"
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2010, 02:42:26 PM
Much like world of warcraft sucks when compared to playing AD&D (or any other fantasy role-playing game you sit around a table playing). Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.

Amusingly a lot of 40k players say that about Fantasy.  :engel:
To be honest, the two systems are similar and different, depending on how one views it.  I'm beginning to wonder why its even worth making those kinds of statements.  Some folks will like one over the other, some folks will like both.  The systems are different enough where it forces different tactics and that's probably a good thing.  Also, it seems natural that as the systems develop and change, that imbalances are going to occur because of the various armies having different rules.  I'm sensing that this kind of thing seems to occur as such things happen in real life, too. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on February 03, 2010, 03:07:12 PM
The reason why I didn't like 40k was that armies tended to be either gunlines, or close combat.
And the games basically consisted of either "my gun line killed enough of you before you got into combat, I win"
or "oh, my gunline didn't kill enough of you. Know I will be mashed in CC"

BUT obviously I havent played the new edition, and the objective system was probsably implemented to combat that exact problem.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 03, 2010, 03:15:39 PM
Gunlines have been nerfed somewhat by the proliferation of cover, and the need to move to capture objectives. On the other hand, real line of sight often allows shooting at models that would not have been targettable in the previous edition. CC armies have been nerfed by eliminating the possibility to consolidate into another combat after winning one. On the other hand vehicles got more durable, making it easier for transports to actually transport troops where you want them.

Add to that the objective based victory conditions that don't give a rats ass about how much you killed 66% of the time, and the game has become rather interesting.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on February 03, 2010, 03:20:09 PM
Men.....we have a mission....and I donīt care how many of you peons die we will achieve this mission!

*cheers of the soldiers that only listened to the heroic tone of the speech*




Hmmm I might bring some 40k to the bash too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 03, 2010, 03:21:23 PM
I think someone above nailed one difference truly. 40K feels much more cinematic. It is much more up close and personal. Fast paced, shrapnel flying. How many will make it through the barrage?
Warfare is bloody and 40k makes it really bloody. How many men will you have left? That is sort of what is in the mind of many commanders. I belive 40K catches the feel of ugly and brutal war much better than Fantasy.
The movement rules in Fantasy also makes the game more abstract. It feels like a large scale wargame, lumbering formations moving and turning, the combat have become abstracted to increase speed of play etc... Still, GW have droped any mentioning of a scale in the game and many say it is a One to One relationship, which makes it utter BS!
A small unit of formed men WILL change formation much faster than a large one and the unit commander will know instantly when his unit is ready for next command.
The larger the formation, the longer the formation change, the longer the order for wheeling will take to make it through etc...

If GW treated WHFB like a scaled game, with say one mini representing 10 soldiers or something, and adapted the game accordingly, it would make more sense and be more cohesive.

40K basically works on a One to One basis, and since it uses the dynamics of modern warfare with loose firing lines, assumes soldiers will usually make the most of cover and such, the game works much more fluently.
Also, even if we say the movements are simplified to unit types, things gets more uncertain because when some special rules for terrain kicks in. How long will my men move? Will the get past that wall or will the squad end up straddling it? If I run I might make it into the cover and claim the objective, but what if I donīt and get stranded before the barrels of that Heavy bolter squad?

And even when you got units that can fleet, like Eldars. What if I donīt make it into contact and end my charge a few inches before that line of Tau pulse rifles

Lots of things to consider and I feel it is not dissimilar from the modern combat enviorment. And tactical desicions ainīt simpler today than before, when you marched in formation. They are simply different. For those who enjoy the mathematical side of gaming, I guess Warhammer is more pleasing. Makes you feel in control and such. Make you feel like a general. Truth is that you have too much control of everything in WHFB, compared to what a general in the days of yore really had.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on February 03, 2010, 03:22:16 PM
I think with cinematic you guys mean ....fast.

40k is the faster game.

done
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 03, 2010, 03:38:27 PM
They're both good games. Done.
Can we stop with the stupid comparisons now? Pretty please? Unless someone has something really stupid or outrageous (read: entertaining) to say regarding that.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on February 03, 2010, 03:39:33 PM
I heard that the 40K elves are pretty cool and all manly.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 03, 2010, 03:47:30 PM
They actually are pretty cool, but from what I've seen they struggle a bit at the moment due to the age of their Codex.
They still can compete however, and most of the models are absolutely awesome. I especially like the vehicles. Falcons, Illum Zar... beautiful kits.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 03, 2010, 04:24:13 PM
The wraithlord is pretty cool too...

And their tanks are very good at surviving!... they can got some energy field thing for 15 pts which forces the enemy to roll two dice and selecting the lowest when rolling on the damage result chart..

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 03, 2010, 04:26:36 PM
I always associate Eldar with cheaters. Seeing as our Eldar player was one.

Rar.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2010, 05:47:26 PM
I love 40k and have slowly stopped playing fantasy because of it.

The main reason for me thinking 40k is better is the difference in the movement. The movement in fantasy is so idiotic and difficult. Whereas 40k movement is nice and easy skirmisher movement. Which makes the game much more fast and dynamic. Which i like.
Difficult, perhaps.  Idiotic, how so?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on February 03, 2010, 05:50:06 PM
Nightgoblin Slingshot






I like fantasy but the movement is odd even for very experienced players.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on February 03, 2010, 06:02:46 PM
Nightgoblin Slingshot






I like fantasy but the movement is odd even for very experienced players.
except the NG slingshot is illegal.

I am definitely a movement phase fudger though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 03, 2010, 06:05:25 PM
I tend to exagerate :P but Fandir came with a good example.

I just think its annoying how you have to face a special way in order to overrun into another and so on. Oh and wheeling sucks ...
But thats just my personal oppinion ;)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on February 03, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
Well the "those guys on our flank spit at us but we canīt charge them thingy" also is kind of strange when you think about it.  A "threat" area around a regiment would make more sense....If you are more than the base movement away you can only be charge if you are in los otherwise the enemy can change his formation and charge you.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2010, 06:14:49 PM
Fandir nailed it.

I hate having to Wheel, turn, reform or whatever to just get that excact angle to overrun into another enemy (which you then debate with your opponent for 15 minutes).
The other problem is that there are too many movement rules in general! Its not just the movement rate, thats easy enough, but the actions i mentioned before. They are all complicated. How many models kan you swap to the front rank with the expand frontage thing?.
We have to look that up all the time.
When we play 40k we sometimes check the book once to find something really odd or specific wording. When playing fantasy we end up checking the book several times just to check on how the "basic" movement actions actually are!
So those saying the movement is more complicated than 40K might have a point.

Quote
I realise 40k has its complicated rules as well but in general i think 40k is easier to learn than fantasy...
Another important thing about 40k vs. fantasy is that you NEVER use the terrain in fantasy! You avoid it like the plauge. Half movement and for what? a minus to hit modifier to the enemy? Shooting isnt even that important in fantasy.
In 40k models are litterally tumble over eachother in the terrain so they can get their precious coversave. 
It just gives the whole game another feel. Less static and more dynamic. Some guardsmen running through some craters or basilisks making new ones!
Never use terrain in WFB?  Nah, I've often used the terrain, and I mean both tactically and moving in it.  Sure there are units I don't tend to have move through terrain more than others, and with the type of combat it represents, this seems to make sense.

Shooting isn't important in WFB?  Forgive me, but I'm an Empire player, and if I didn't have those cannons, things might be tough.  I'd rather not give up the luxuries of crossbows, handguns, and arrows either.

True, in 40K, models move differently, and thus use terrain the way they do, but this seems to make sense with what the rules system is trying to represent as well.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2010, 06:30:57 PM
As for not being cinematic ... I just played in a couple of WFB Seige games recently and the movie moments were everywhere.  I had a unit of spears and detached free company hold off a flying DE manticore with rider for three turns ... imagine the fight they had!  Spears stabbing, claws slashing, lance and sword swinging, swords swinging.  This went on for 3 turns and at the end of each CC phase there was an increasing anticipation to see if ti would come to a conclusion.  And it didn't!  Turn six came and went and they still stood there toe to toe.

In another situation, we had a shade skirmish unit try to climb a side tower wall and the archers form above held them off with, get this, arrows!  Imagine that.  Then we had a bunch of beastmen ambush and climb into the only tower that didn't have a defender in it, because there were too many others pouring into other spots, and then run along a wall to another tower to take out the archers that had caused the shades to run.  We had the gate come down, a wall tumble down, men and beasts falling off the wall, a hydra that finally bit the dust on turn five after taking cannon balls and crossbow shots and arrow volleys, and shrugging them off has its body regenerated some of the flesh and blood it was loosing.

Yep, trying to compare the cinematoic moments between 40K and WFB seems fruitless.  They happen in both if your imagination is good enough. :eusa_sick: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 03, 2010, 07:05:02 PM
I heard that the 40K elves are pretty cool and all manly.

Since they created me, or a fictional copy of me, I can not but agree.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: ekman on February 03, 2010, 07:14:34 PM
The 40k backstory is much more interesting and its what got me into wargaming in the first place.  Both rulesets have their merits, but I do tend to like the people who play fantasy more than those who play 40k (in both forums and RL), which is a huge part of the hobby.

I wouldn't use the word "manly" for the eldar, but they are pretty cool.  The dark eldar need help though, both their rules and models are very old.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 03, 2010, 08:14:37 PM
Yes you are right GP. I dont see any reason why this is being discussed either. It is really not possible to decide.

Everyone has their views on things.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2010, 08:35:26 PM
Yes you are right GP. I dont see any reason why this is being discussed either. It is really not possible to decide.

Everyone has their views on things.
Did I say there wasn't a reason to discuss it?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 03, 2010, 10:18:19 PM
40k related  :engel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0

Just saw this linked on Warseer. I enjoyed it.

Hitler on the Tyranid Codex.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 04, 2010, 01:40:55 AM
40k related  :engel:
Ah, ok ...

Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0

Just saw this linked on Warseer. I enjoyed it.

Hitler on the Tyranid Codex.
:icon_lol: :icon_lol:

(By the way ... what movie is that from?)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 04, 2010, 02:23:33 AM
I adore the 40k fluff.  It is so epicly depressing yet it works!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 04, 2010, 12:22:46 PM
Yes you are right GP. I dont see any reason why this is being discussed either. It is really not possible to decide.

Everyone has their views on things.
Did I say there wasn't a reason to discuss it?  I'm confused.

It was more a reference to Aldaris' post about stopping this, because it leaves us nowhere.


And the movie is Der Untergang / The downfall.
Its one of my favourites :P

And i love that one! :D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 04, 2010, 03:42:52 PM
I suspect it will be difficult to find over here in the States, but I'm going to keep my eyes open for it.  Thanks! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 04, 2010, 09:43:18 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-Bruno-Ganz/dp/B0009RCPUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1265319762&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-Bruno-Ganz/dp/B0009RCPUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1265319762&sr=8-1)

There you go :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 06, 2010, 05:21:59 PM
Oooh! :icon_biggrin: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 08, 2010, 05:27:57 PM
New battle mission stuff is up on GW's website! :D

PHILLY LOOOK!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8200015a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-blog&utm_content=new-blog&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Blog-Posts# (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8200015a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-blog&utm_content=new-blog&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Blog-Posts#)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 08, 2010, 05:33:37 PM
Hmm... Not impressed with the over-cooked Dred but that may also be the paintjob.

The Kans looks less insane and almost as good as the metal ones.

Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 08, 2010, 05:37:29 PM
I will probably buy some Kans for use in pretty much anything I damn well want. Those are awesome to me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 08, 2010, 05:56:06 PM
Hmm... Not impressed with the over-cooked Dred but that may also be the paintjob.

The Kans looks less insane and almost as good as the metal ones.

Thanks for the tip.
Have you seen the black version?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 08, 2010, 05:57:37 PM
I like them all but im dissapointed that the bassilisk has gotten nothing new but the new chimera parts.. Sigh.. I had hoped for some bits to make the various arties. But nooo.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 08, 2010, 06:02:14 PM
Have you seen the black version?

Just did! Much, much better.  :::cheers:::

More Orks on my next GW order.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 08, 2010, 06:48:58 PM
I think I shall put aside some money to buy myself a Killa kan box later. I am in love...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 08, 2010, 07:07:21 PM
More proof that GW's new releases are made worse by crappy paintjobs.

These are fine models that even I could make look better.  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 08, 2010, 07:15:01 PM
Have you seen the black version?

Just did! Much, much better.  :::cheers:::

More Orks on my next GW order.

Good man!

I dont know what i want to buy... I have everything i need... :unsure: And im practically dying to get to spent some money on GW stuff right now.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 08, 2010, 11:54:38 PM
Hmm... Not impressed with the over-cooked Dred but that may also be the paintjob.

The Kans looks less insane and almost as good as the metal ones.

Thanks for the tip.
There's a rumor going around that you might be a GW employee.  This kind of post proves they're incorrect, or else you're really good at hiding it. :icon_wink:

By the way, I agree. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 09, 2010, 12:24:08 AM
I like them all but im dissapointed that the bassilisk has gotten nothing new but the new chimera parts.. Sigh.. I had hoped for some bits to make the various arties. But nooo.
Oh man... this is such a downer. I was sooo hoping they'd include the other arty options. Otherwise, what real reason was there to update those kits, especially the Basilisk? "More straightforward to assemble", fucking joke. Anyone who couldn't build that kit ought to pick up another hobby. And now I still won't get Manticores, because I sure as hell do not fancy shelling out the price of the chimera on top of the cimera to get the Manticore kit from Forgeworld. Damn. Most pointless re-release of the universe. No visual redesign, just some options, and most of those used to be on the tank accessory sprue. And for those, I lose the trackguards in the chimera kits because the (very useful) accessory spure is gone from the box... guess what I have on all of mine? Now I have to buy even those extra! at 8 pounds. :eusa_wall:

I'm gonna prime me some ratmen now. And load up a game where I can shoot somebody while I wait for them to dry. *grumble*
 :dry:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 09, 2010, 02:32:20 AM
So far I've heard nothing positive about the new chimera/basilisk release.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: neverness on February 09, 2010, 04:07:48 AM
So far I've heard nothing positive about the new chimera/basilisk release.

I've certainly not heard anything to entice the dollar out my hand.

But that Deff Dred and the killer Kans!   
:Ohmy:
-I'll be camping out for those beauties!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: neverness on February 09, 2010, 04:10:33 AM
BTW, did anyone else catch that they're releasing an Ork Flashgit mini?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1430057&prodId=prod650001a

Of course, I dig the targeting squig!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 09, 2010, 10:38:06 AM
I want such a targetting Squig! Where can you buy them? Would serve me well on the live fire exercises.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 09, 2010, 11:10:23 AM
Well, annoyingly I may have to buy an army of killa kanz and deff dreads now.

An army of just walkers and 2 mekboyz.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: ekman on February 09, 2010, 03:58:20 PM
The kanz and dread are pretty good indeed... although I was always very fond of the fact that the older ones were just cans with legs and buzzsaws, which was the epitome of orky.  Still these are very good though, and plastic.  Love the flash git and his targeting squig.

The ven dread and IG tanks are boring!  The dread is much less interesting than the metal ven dread they have now, and the tanks look... well exactly the same as they have. 
 
Does anybody else think that dreads go from looking awesome with the sarcophagus face to looking silly with the helmet put on there?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 09, 2010, 04:00:14 PM
Does anybody else think that dreads go from looking awesome with the sarcophagus face to looking silly with the helmet put on there?
Yes!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 09, 2010, 04:09:56 PM
So far I've heard nothing positive about the new chimera/basilisk release.
I've certainly not heard anything to entice the dollar out my hand.

But that Deff Dred and the killer Kans!   
:Ohmy:
-I'll be camping out for those beauties!
Definitely interested in the kans.  I got one metal one, so far, and might pick up a couple more along the way.

The kanz and dread are pretty good indeed... although I was always very fond of the fact that the older ones were just cans with legs and buzzsaws, which was the epitome of orky.  Still these are very good though, and plastic.  Love the flash git and his targeting squig.

The ven dread and IG tanks are boring!  The dread is much less interesting than the metal ven dread they have now, and the tanks look... well exactly the same as they have. 
 
Does anybody else think that dreads go from looking awesome with the sarcophagus face to looking silly with the helmet put on there?
Regarding the metal ones, I'm wondering how many different varieties of these can be purchased currently.

(GP ... a first step could be looking at GW's website. :icon_wink: )

Oh, right ...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 09, 2010, 04:13:39 PM
Indeed, the tanks are just... A SCAM!

A pure scam.

They re-release the Chimera costing the same as before. All nice an dandy, you can now get heavy bolter for the main gun (yeah, who ever bothered with switching?) but you loose the assecory spruce.

Come on. That is a scam. They intend for people to react like this: Growy, they updated the kit and kept the price the same. Sweet GW! When in fact they saved some cost on removing the accesory spruce.

The Basilisk seems to be even more of a joke. Nothing new. Nothing. And then away with that lovely accesory spruce and charge people for buying it separately.

The word for that is scam.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 09, 2010, 04:28:43 PM
The Basilisk still seems to have the accessory sprue, as opposed to the Chimera. At least it is pictured when you open the details window on the site. So the basilisk release is basically... erm... an easier to assemble plastic kit to replace the previous plastic kit. Looking exactly the same. At the same price.

They must have been bored or something.
 :?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on February 09, 2010, 05:43:50 PM
At the same price.


Now that is "groundbreaking"  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 09, 2010, 05:57:27 PM
 :icon_lol:

I was going to say, "The same price? :icon_eek:"

Midaski beat me to it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 09, 2010, 06:05:21 PM
Some may say the new Basilisk kit is....earthshaking.  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on February 09, 2010, 07:45:41 PM
Well that's crap. I want a Medusa plastic kit!

Grumble grumble grumble
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 10, 2010, 02:01:17 AM
I will pick up 3 more plastic kans.  I would skip the dredd. As coo las it looks, they aren't worth it in the game.  Kans everytime!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowwolf on February 10, 2010, 02:18:44 AM
I am happy :-) I can spend almost all of my salary at warhammer! As an Au Pair, food and lodgings are taken care of by my host family and I'm free to spend all my monies on nice little plastic toys!  :::cheers:::

Shadowwolf
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 12, 2010, 12:48:04 PM
So i went to work and got the demolisher / punisher / excecutioner tank for my guard. And i must say that it is one of the nicest kits in the guard!

The tracks where easily put together and didnt have any stupid wheels like last time or on the chimeras. The fact that the weapons are interchangeable is really nice too! You just need some magnets or some and then they can be swapped! No conversion for additional mounts or anything is needed! Its awesome!

If the "new" chimera has the same tracks as the new demolisher then im glad. THe old chimera was really a paint to put together. But without the stupid wheels, theres still hope.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 12, 2010, 02:04:34 PM
What? How can the present Chimera be pain because off the wheels. The GW kits are so basic it is a bit off a joke they cost the same as high quality scale models.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 12, 2010, 02:11:42 PM
For some it's easier and more preferable. Thus those will be happy.

The new Chimera kit is worthwhile in my eyes, having the weapons options for the turret and being "easier to make". I'd still have to mod it so the turret was in the back, which might make it a bit mad, but meh. The basilisk kit is a bit meh, but I'm not fussed. It didn't lose anything, but it gained "being easier" to make.

Edit: I just saw a nice-ish wip conversion of a chimera to make a Half Track. I am pleased by this, considering I just got Tales of Valor and love the Panzer Elite.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 12, 2010, 02:43:15 PM
THERE IS A BIG DADDY STYLE DRILL ON THE KILLA KAN SPRUE
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 12, 2010, 03:10:24 PM
What? How can the present Chimera be pain because off the wheels. The GW kits are so basic it is a bit off a joke they cost the same as high quality scale models.
You have to glue like 20 wheels on in between the tracks and have no use of them what so ever. Its stupid.

Oh and i dont care about the cost versus bits you need to put together, that doesnt make it of less quality? it is still detailed. Although there are alot of flat areas on it.
I think im a mini shadowlord. I dont care about the cost, i just buy it :P

Link to the half track Mr D?
I myself found a Vietnam leman russ!
http://www.battlegroup.net/blog/ (http://www.battlegroup.net/blog/)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 12, 2010, 04:53:13 PM
There's this one:

Long Half Track is Long

(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/8/19/48707_sm-Chimera%20Half-Track.jpg)

And this incomplete one:

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/4/18/3e06c45c4f755e39dfc3ef61a25a1d2c_6617.jpg__thumb)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 12, 2010, 04:54:03 PM
I like those! Are they yours?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 12, 2010, 05:13:33 PM
Cool conversions! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 12, 2010, 06:01:15 PM
No, I was doing my daily looking at WW2 German Half Tracks (love them) and thought about modding a chimera to be like one, and so googled 40k chimera half track.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 12, 2010, 07:33:08 PM
That last one isnt that good :P.-... Not that i could do it any better though :p

Check this one out
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Cpt_Canuck/Imperial%20Guard/Jays%20HalfTrack/JagdPantherProgressx.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 12, 2010, 08:41:28 PM
This is why I love Guard.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 12, 2010, 09:02:06 PM
I love that big bad assault gunlooking Basilisk!
Still, I would rather go and buy a proper Jagdpanther kit and beef up the gun with some tube instead of doing all that fiddle just to only use GW parts that will get way more expensive.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 12, 2010, 09:49:07 PM
Then do that.  :roll:

That half track is a beauty. Playing too much Red Orchestra and Company of Heroes lately, go Kampfgruppe Lehr!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 12, 2010, 09:56:32 PM
The Panzer Lehr kicked some serious butt in Normandy.

Regardless of my usual preferences, that first Chimera halftrack conversion gave me some ideas for converting my old Chimera into a proper ork battlewagon.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 12, 2010, 10:16:11 PM
Do people still play Red Orchestra, Mr D? Last time i checked there was only 10 or so severs.

Maybe we should hook up sometime.
Oh and whats your user in COH?

And you you do that Mathi ':p .. But its a valid point. But I think he did it for the conversion. It just isnt the same when buying a ww2 thing and using it, instead of creating the conversion yourself.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 12, 2010, 10:48:44 PM
It's a shame that Half Track kits cost almost as much as a chimera. I need four of them for the WW2 game I'm writing!

McKnight, my steam ID is MrWhitey (I appear as MrWhitey [O.C. Reg]. I only got Red Orchestra recently, though I used to play it when it was "just" a mod. I've found it to still be played quite a bit, I frequent a pair of EU servers which during the afternoon/night time are often full with 50 players each. I have found the game to be lacking in vehicles though.  :-( That and unless you're first on the server, literally, you wont get a chance to drive a panzer. Not that I want to -too much- considering I've driven the Half Track and good lord... The visibility...

Firing the mounted MG is just as hard as driving.

And I can't remember my CoH one, either SSWaffenWaffle or a variation on MrWhitey.

So far my experience with the Panzer Elite is 2 skirmish games and a 2v2 against computers with a friend playing the standard Wehrmacht. My cries of "I'm going tank destroyer, I can't build defences!" often fell on deaf ears.  :-(
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 13, 2010, 09:25:27 AM
Damn! This tread almost deserve a song.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Phantom of the Eurobash on February 13, 2010, 10:13:59 AM
Yes I know songs do you hear them?

Nice German Panzers.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 13, 2010, 10:27:50 AM
Behave, you unholy affront to Morr or I shalt cleanse thee with holy fire!  ::heretic::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xYzQ-SRs4g
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 13, 2010, 11:01:28 AM
Added you^^
Do you play CoH via steam as well?.
I saw some tank servers on RO some time ago but yea you had to be lucky, but its really a cool game. Its just so much more fun if your team is your friendsor clan, so you can actually put down a battleplan.

Panzer elite are cool but i still prefer werhmacht, but thats just because i havent mastered them yet.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 13, 2010, 11:23:29 AM
Check this one out

I like that. Not keen on the thing next to it with a large fixed gun though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 13, 2010, 11:27:47 AM
How can you NOT like it? Its a Jagdpanther conversion!  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 13, 2010, 11:30:59 AM
It looks like a stupid design to me. Which probably means it's based on a real one, or something. I don't know anything about tanks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 13, 2010, 11:33:15 AM
Rufus donīt like tank destroyers, maybe? :engel:

I bet he prefers everything styled as british Churchill tanks or similar. Nothing wrong with that, I love Churchills, but when Rufus do not like it, he is ready to spill his gall about it and accuse others for having poor taste.  :icon_razz:

So real designs are stupid? I canīt see how they are stupid when obviously non-working GW designs seems to be working designs in your eyes Rufus. You may be trying to joke, but I think it is easier still to assume that you say exactly what you mean all the time.  :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 13, 2010, 11:35:47 AM
Oh, give it a rest. Stop projecting weird opinions onto everyone.

None of your post makes any sense or has anything to do with what I said!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 13, 2010, 11:53:31 AM
None of your post makes any sense or has anything to do with what I said!

On the contrary, your posts are quite similar in content.

Only he takes two pages to say what you do in one sentence...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 13, 2010, 12:18:23 PM
None of your post makes any sense or has anything to do with what I said!

On the contrary, your posts are quite similar in content.

Only he takes two pages to say what you do in one sentence...

Hahhaha :D I love you, Slord :P

Now Rufus, instead of doing like mathi and rambling nonsense, im going to enlighten you a little.
The jagdpanther was a large tank hunter which used ambush tactics. It had a 25 degrees line of fire without moving the tracks so could still move the gun alittle. It had a large gun so could also should further than, say shermans.
Also a tank turret was time consuming and expensive to produce. So they where cheaper to manufacture.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on February 13, 2010, 12:43:38 PM
I like that British tank destroyer where they'd put the gun facing backwards so they could hide in a bush and drive straight off in the opposite direction of the enemy after the first shot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 13, 2010, 12:50:24 PM
I like that British tank destroyer where they'd put the gun facing backwards so they could hide in a bush and drive straight off in the opposite direction of the enemy after the first shot.
:eusa_clap:
Awesome! What was it called? The Runforit Mk I?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 13, 2010, 01:04:37 PM
Now Rufus, instead of doing like mathi and rambling nonsense, im going to enlighten you a little.

Fair enough, but I still don't like the way it looks. Which is all I was saying anyway. As I may or may not have said, I'm not interested in tanks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 13, 2010, 01:46:59 PM
Rufus seems to be unable to detect when I try my hand on his own style of subtle ironic jokes.  :icon_razz:

Have a pint, Rufus! :::cheers:::

However, the way you put it was open to interpretations. Namely that you did not like tanks and that real armoured vehicles did not make any sense, hence the model was bad. Not that you just donīt like the look of it, aestethically. Aestethics have nothing to do with wether a design is stupid or not.
Fact is that it was a very good design for defensive and ambush warfare and served the germans well. How about concluding that you feel it looks ugly, since that is an aestethic value. Looking like a stupid design is something you canīt really say anything about unless you know something about tanks.
So, you could have saved yourself an entire post!  :icon_mrgreen:
Or simply said that it did not appeal to your aestethics, but that you did not know anything about the function of armoured vehicles.
With that reply I would not have done more than nudge you a bit in jest.  :icon_wink:

Now, your reply appeared high and mighty, as if coming form Armchair general Rufus of Wellington. Not your intention, but that was how it looked. I more or less understood what you meant, but could not help but playing your own style against yourself for a change.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 13, 2010, 01:49:22 PM
Or in other words, someone not agreeing with you is a good excuse for a lecture.

Tanks don't exist anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on February 13, 2010, 01:51:08 PM
Quote
Or simply said that it did not appeal to your aestethics, but that you did not know anything about the function of armoured vehicles.

except that is exactly what he did say.

It looks like a stupid design to me. Which probably means it's based on a real one, or something. I don't know anything about tanks.
HE even pointed out it was probably a real design.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 13, 2010, 02:01:29 PM
Still, could be my foreign understanding, but the way the text was laided out made it look like it was about how stupid real world tanks are.
But it can boil down to something as simple as me and McKnights nordic understanding of our native grammar making us sometimes misinterpretate subtle differences in meaning in the english sentences and sometimes we write something that for you looks odd and meaning something different than what we intended.

Ah, the miracle of lingua franca.

I think that somehow I hear Rufus speaking with a sarcastic voice when he writes things, making me read in tones and meanings that sometimes are there, sometimes not.  :unsure:

Sorry mates! Truly sorry. I love you anyway, Rufus.  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 13, 2010, 02:03:47 PM
Oh, that's nice! Thanks.

I do forget sometimes that english is not everyone's native language. Because you are all so good at it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 13, 2010, 02:49:16 PM
As was said earlier, Tank Destroyers were made in great numbers due to being cheaper to produce, and (sometimes) having a much lower profile.

The StuG is my favourite tank destroyer, the Jagdpanther was ok, but I dislike it's high profile, much prefer the "diminutive" Hetzer (but I still think the StuG > all)

I think the silliest german tank destroyer was the aptly named Elefant, and the Jagdtiger annoys me by looking too much like a King Tiger.

I'm assuming you're the hamster, McKnight?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 13, 2010, 03:44:45 PM
Ah yes the stug! Its awesome! But not really a tank destroyer per se, but an assault gun. Its gun wasnt only designed for antitank purposes, but only anti inf.
Its also one of my favourites.
To tell the truth, i can never remember the visual differences of the jagdpanther, jagdpanzer and jagdtiger xD...

Yes im the hamster :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 13, 2010, 03:46:29 PM
Have any of you had any experiences with the leman russ punisher?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 13, 2010, 04:13:43 PM
Jadgpanzers look like smaller Jagdpanthers, simplistically. The JPanther was just much bigger. Of course there are other differences, but this is very general.

The Elefant looked like a super Hummel. The body of a Tiger tank with a huge superstructure at the back.

The Jagdtiger looked like a King Tiger with the turret expanded outwards to be flush with the body. Hell, just go on google and look.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 13, 2010, 04:25:06 PM
Have any of you had any experiences with the leman russ punisher?

Yes, my brother has one.

They're awesome.

Even heavily armoured foes end up having to be wary of so many potential armour saves.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 13, 2010, 05:22:15 PM
I used it only once in a Plaentary Invasions game against CSM/Demons. The Demons didn't like it much.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 13, 2010, 05:36:55 PM
Yea i just googled them Mr D :P,,,,  :icon_mrgreen:

So what do you equip them with?

I was thinking heavy bolter sponsons and a heavy stubber just for maximum firepower but thats 210pts. For 30 pts more you can have the executioner and 5 plasma blasts and no armour save.

I also think the 24" range wont allow the punisher to stand much still and be able to fire its sponsons so im thinking of saving them off and keep mobility. But i have to try them some time.
I just dont like that they are so expensive. But Rear av 11 is nice! Although the executioner also has this  :unsure:

I was thinking of trying them in a list like this: (all chimeras have hull flamers
Company comm. 3 plasmas, 1 medic and chimera
veteran squad, 3 plasmas, chimera
veteran squad, 3 flamers, chimera
veteran squad, 3 meltas - in vendetta
2x1 vendetta
2x1 medusa with bastion shells
2 LR punishers.

And have the punishers lead the assault followed by the chimeras. While the medusas and vendettas provide firesupport against tanks and monsters.
One of the vendettas with have a veteran squad as reserve guys. Dno which squad it should be.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 13, 2010, 05:44:25 PM
Executioners are better.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on February 13, 2010, 06:01:04 PM
I like that British tank destroyer where they'd put the gun facing backwards so they could hide in a bush and drive straight off in the opposite direction of the enemy after the first shot.
:eusa_clap:
Awesome! What was it called? The Runforit Mk I?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_%28tank_destroyer%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_%28tank_destroyer%29)
Archer.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 14, 2010, 08:21:23 AM
Well, the swedish S-tank could drive as fast backwards as forward. It was really an assault gun/tank destroyer but it made sense if you expected to fight delay and ambush action against superior russian armour in north Sweden.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on February 14, 2010, 02:48:53 PM
Executioners are better.

Depends. Different roles you know.

Also, Mcknight, my CoH friend ID is t12161991.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 14, 2010, 02:59:10 PM
What are the different roles ?

The only big advantage the punisher has, as i can see it, is the punisher cant accidently hit your own guys.

I got some issues with steam atm, but ill add you when i can, Tmillion
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 14, 2010, 03:17:53 PM
What are the different roles ?

The only big advantage the punisher has, as i can see it, is the punisher cant accidently hit your own guys.
Spacing is a big issue, as well as cost. If your target is properly spaced out, you will only hit two or three minis max per plasma cannon shot, sometimes even just one (especially when considering terminator bases). And that is assuming you don't scatter off-target entirely. Remember, BS 3. If you mount a lascannon on that moster it comes to 245 points, 230 without (I am assuming you'll go for plasma cannon sponsons if you take it in the first place). They almost always wound on a 2+ and igore armor, but there is cover to consider, as well as ward saves. Now, contrast with the punisher. Doesn't ignore armor, but can put out 29 S5 shots per round. That's about 15 hits on average, and 10 wounds on T4 targets. It simply is an efficient way to make the enemy roll so many saves he's bound to fail a few. And it is cheaper. Add Knight Commander Pask to bring it on par cost-wise with the well equipped Executioner and you look at about 20 hits and 14 wounds. Not too shabby in my book.
Both have their applications, but the Punisher is the better all-rounder in my opinion. Effective against hordes and mostrous creatures especially and decent against all others. With pask on board you even have a chance to take out light vehicles (up to AV 11) fairly well (you'll get about three penetrating hits per turn), and even AV 12 could look at some serious damage due to around three glacing hits on average per turn.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 14, 2010, 05:06:22 PM
Yea spacing also came to my mind.
But i doubt the punisher will get to fire its sponsons because of its short 24" range. But pask also entered my mind but i dont think hes worth the points in a punisher.

I also thought of him in a executioner actually. It will get AT capability and reroll to wound on monsters, with ap2 that is a nice thing. But also nice with the punisher, but in my mind they are supposed to be cheap!

Ill try them out sometime though, i have to. The model is so awesome, both the executioner and punisher cannon. The demolisher isnt  :p
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 14, 2010, 05:43:16 PM
The Punisher isn't supposed to be cheap. A standard Russ is supposed to be cheap.

As to the monstrous creature hunting: Most mosters have 4-5 wounds, which is the absolute maximum you can achieve with the Executioner against a single model. So a low chance to take it out, you'd have to hit with every shot. Besides, a Pask Executioner will cost an insane 280 points (295 with the lascannon), way too much. A Pask Punisher with re-roll to wound on the other hand has a pretty good chance of dropping it.
A good, cheapish Pask variant is the often overlooked Exterminator. An Exterminator with HB Sponsons and a hull lascannon makes an excellent tank hunter for up to AV 13 and an average one for 14. Those Autocannons are heavy 4 twin-linked at BS 4, and they benefit from his +1 armor penetration. Effectively turning them into 4 twin-linked SM missile launchers for anti-armor purposes. Add the lascannon (and the 6 HB shots from the sponsons against light vehicles) and you have the true tank hunter Russ variant in the list. It isn't the Vanquisher.
 :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: neverness on February 14, 2010, 06:23:01 PM
Agh! You've reminded me how much I miss the Exterminator when I could field it with the Space Wolves. I got it specifically for bug hunting, and it did pretty good the times I got to use it. Heck, it pretty much did good in general. I preferred it over my army's Predators. The Exterminator was a monster tank in 4th edition!

Maybe one day it will find a home with my IG army (if I ever get around to it), but I'll hate to have to repaint it and cut the wolf heads off of the sponsons. Or maybe I'll just leave it as is?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 14, 2010, 06:36:11 PM
Im not fond of the exterminator. Autocannons isnt a thing that the IG is short of. Then i would rather have a standard battlecannon with its ap3 and s8 ordonance large blast.

And for the price of an exterminator you can get 2 flak tanks and they have almost double the range!

but i follow you on the executioner not being able to do alot of wounds with the blasts on Monsters, although it is a good start.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 14, 2010, 06:43:15 PM
Im not fond of the exterminator. Autocannons isnt a thing that the IG is short of. Then i would rather have a standard battlecannon with its ap3 and s8 ordonance large blast.
I am talking about a Paskinator, not a regular Exterminator. Pask is the whole point of the variant I talked about. With him, those Autocannons cease to be mere Autocannons and move up to the realm of missile launchers.
And for the price of an exterminator you can get 2 flak tanks and they have almost double the range!
And they are pointless in the role I talked about. The best those can go after is light vehicles, not battle tanks.
Without Pask the Exterminator is certainly not a bad tank either. 4 Twinlinked ACs and nine HB shots for 170 points, all wrapped into an AV 14 package. That said, I prefer the regular Russ as well over the regular Exterminator. But the regular Russ doesn't benefit very much from a Pask upgrade. The Exterminator does, hugely.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 14, 2010, 06:50:05 PM
All this talk of IG makes me somewhat interested in them again...

But first lots Orks.

And maybe WotR.  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 14, 2010, 06:52:31 PM
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing. Is that a Swedish genetic trait?
 :wink:

That said, I am still dumbfounded you actually sold your awesome IG army. You, you... heretic!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 14, 2010, 09:03:54 PM
Im not fond of the exterminator. Autocannons isnt a thing that the IG is short of. Then i would rather have a standard battlecannon with its ap3 and s8 ordonance large blast.
I am talking about a Paskinator, not a regular Exterminator. Pask is the whole point of the variant I talked about. With him, those Autocannons cease to be mere Autocannons and move up to the realm of missile launchers.
And for the price of an exterminator you can get 2 flak tanks and they have almost double the range!
And they are pointless in the role I talked about. The best those can go after is light vehicles, not battle tanks.
Without Pask the Exterminator is certainly not a bad tank either. 4 Twinlinked ACs and nine HB shots for 170 points, all wrapped into an AV 14 package. That said, I prefer the regular Russ as well over the regular Exterminator. But the regular Russ doesn't benefit very much from a Pask upgrade. The Exterminator does, hugely.

Haha the Paskinator :P I know that s8 autocannons are cool but i really dont see s8 as a battletank killer. I mostly go up against landraiders, predators, leman russes or rhinos its its mostly AV 14 or 11. I usually let the autocannons shoot the rhinos and the vendettas can play with the big stuff :P
Well the battlecannon russ would actually benifit well from Herr Pask. It would become S9 ordinance, thats some good AT, but granted, there are better things.
But i see your point about the paskinator. Its just i dont like the model :P


Yes that was stupid Shadowlord.. very stupid... but on the bright side, if you start IG again, your stocks will go up as well... Win Win

whats Wotr? Lord of the rings?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 14, 2010, 09:12:09 PM
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing.

Yeah but he doesn't make a new thread daily about it.  :engel:

And WotR is War of the Rings, and I'm vaguely intrigued at Shadowlord thinking of getting into it!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 14, 2010, 09:22:00 PM
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing. Is that a Swedish genetic trait?

Probably, but I usually end up buying the stuff and then get rid of it a few weeks later, still in the boxes.  :icon_rolleyes:

Quote
That said, I am still dumbfounded you actually sold your awesome IG army. You, you... heretic!

Sometimes, I manage to get stuff painted (the IG army had some commission stuff from a local young and used-to-be poor talent) before I get rid of it.  :icon_lol:

And WotR is War of the Rings, and I'm vaguely intrigued at Shadowlord thinking of getting into it!

I have heard some good stuff about it, and unlike WFB and 40K, have several armies I like all the models (there are less units in WotR).

Playing is just one quarter of this hobby for me (collecting/buying, painting/converting, and fluff/background being the other three)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 14, 2010, 09:28:24 PM
The only problem I've found with WotR is getting people to play it, I hope you have enough around to get some games!

It's a nice ruleset, it has flaws, like -any- game but they can easily be resolved with a chat.

Which forces were you thinking of? Gondor is the one I went with, and they can get very boring to paint, the basic army being a load of tin cans.  :-D But it is nice having so many figures on the table, and being able to move them so fluidly.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 14, 2010, 09:42:40 PM
Probably, but I usually end up buying the stuff and then get rid of it a few weeks later, still in the boxes.  :icon_rolleyes:
Ah. So it's more a variant of the stereotypical female shoe fetish. Only that you get rid of the stuff again.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 14, 2010, 10:00:44 PM
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing. Is that a Swedish genetic trait?
 :wink:

We just had this conversation on the beast board.  We think it is a swedish thing, with the difference being Shadowlord actually DOES pul lthe trigger and buy whole armies on a whim!

Quote
That said, I am still dumbfounded you actually sold your awesome IG army. You, you... heretic!

He has orks, which are hands down the best army in all of Warhammer, Fantasy or 40k.  You can't beat the models or the fluff.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 14, 2010, 10:10:43 PM
Orks are cool in any possible way, no question about it. But the great thing about 40k fluff is that I can not really think of any part about it that I dislike. It's all awesome (I am not talking about individual fluff pieces, but about the overall concept). And of course IG are the best.
That said, I'd be sorely tempted to get myself an Ork army for 40k or Fantasy, but two friends have both of those bases covered. And I don't really want to start another horde army...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 14, 2010, 10:53:54 PM
He has orks, which are hands down the best army in all of Warhammer, Fantasy or 40k.  You can't beat the models or the fluff.

Agreed 100%, and the is another aspect why I love them as I do with Ogres in fantasy, the conversion possibilities.  :icon_cool:

The only problem I've found with WotR is getting people to play it, I hope you have enough around to get some games!

I am currently courting two of the players, yeah with flowers, to start with this game. I am not worried about players, if I start, a few other will follow.

Quote
Which forces were you thinking of?

Mordor or Dwarfs, and maybe Tin Men.

@ Aldaris, yes I have fetish with plastic little men, but luckily my wife have been influencing me more and more (I did slip with that HE army some time ago) to keep it cool.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 14, 2010, 11:26:46 PM
Regardless of my usual preferences, that first Chimera halftrack conversion gave me some ideas for converting my old Chimera into a proper ork battlewagon.
Not that I'm opposed to converting Chimeras, but arent' they suppose to be amphibious?  Those tires don't seem like a good idea for an amphibious vechile.

However, I do like the idea of converting one as into a looted wagon. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 15, 2010, 07:59:31 AM
@ Aldaris, yes I have fetish with plastic little men
Don't we all...?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 15, 2010, 10:34:27 AM
I thought the Lord of the rings branch of GW was dead though :dry:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on February 15, 2010, 10:36:21 AM
I thought the Lord of the rings branch of GW was dead though :dry:

So do I, which to be honest is why I have yet to buy any real army.

And it's not like I have nothing to paint (say some 150 Orks and a bunch of big stuff, Ogres, and FW stuff).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 15, 2010, 10:48:47 AM
What FW stuff? :P

But yea same here!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 16, 2010, 09:10:02 PM
So as i showed up for work today at the store, i noticed the new killa kans and venerable dreadnought stood on the desk in the office.
I immediately swooped over to them to check them out and looked at them.

I must say that the ven. dread is nicely detailed as you can expect and think its overall nice! Although I dont like that sacopharus thingy.
The killa kans are a little meh though. They are cool and all but their legs are all too plain and flat. They dont have chunks of metal there. But some cool weapons and bodies, thats for sure!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 17, 2010, 06:05:50 PM
Oh and there are 3 kinds of the sacufarus thingies. One of  them looks like the old dreadnought's i think.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 17, 2010, 07:30:30 PM
Just so you're not talking to yourself McKnight, me and a friend need a third for some Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor 3v3  :engel:

We're both incredibly bad at it.  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 17, 2010, 07:57:23 PM
Saw a killa kan this past weekend.  This one had a smiling face on it ... bah.  Lets hope they can be modeled with out faces. :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 17, 2010, 08:16:40 PM
I AM going to get me some killa kanz, one way or the other. Both metal ones and the new plastic will do!
I will drop a looted wagon just to be able to have a bunch of these nuttsies. Heck, I will even model some red berets onto them!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on February 19, 2010, 11:02:09 AM
Even I was tempted by the killa kans and I don't like 40k.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 20, 2010, 12:47:41 PM
I AM going to get me some killa kanz, one way or the other. Both metal ones and the new plastic will do!
I will drop a looted wagon just to be able to have a bunch of these nuttsies. Heck, I will even model some red berets onto them!

Killa Kans do really well on the battle field too.  They are far superior to dredds.  The unit can take alot of punishment for a crazy low price.  155 for a unit of 3 is awesome.  Get them into combat and even with WS2 those 2 S10 attacks will wear a unit out!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 20, 2010, 12:49:29 PM
Evil robot dustbins are a good concept. They should have them in warhammer too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 20, 2010, 01:49:41 PM
You really invest in that sarc. mark.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 20, 2010, 01:51:24 PM
What?

I meant exactly what I said, as it happens.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 20, 2010, 02:07:24 PM
See !

This is excactly what happens when you dont use the sarc. mark! You get confusion. Maybe they should invent a non-sarc. mark to earn even more money :P

But how would those dustbins be powered in fantasy?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 20, 2010, 03:05:40 PM
Ehh?

Is that a question worthy of a man of the Empire, McKnight! :icon_eek:

We can either make them steam pistondriven or we make them clockwork driven.
How hard can it be? :engel:

Honestly, that clockwork horse annoys me, but bring me a clockwork dustbin and you will soon see another incarnation of Mathi Alfbluts personas commanding his own pistondriven walker.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 20, 2010, 04:26:38 PM
Evil robot dustbins are a good concept. They should have them in warhammer too.

I want this for my Empire army:

(http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/images/tank_hatch.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 20, 2010, 06:54:04 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on February 20, 2010, 07:12:30 PM
Evil robot dustbins are a good concept. They should have them in warhammer too.

I did make one. Unfortunately there was an incident and it's in a box broken somewhere.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 20, 2010, 07:14:16 PM
Oh, that's a shame. I thought it looked rather promising.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 20, 2010, 10:36:55 PM
No grots in WFB. :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 20, 2010, 10:51:54 PM
Snotlings. Just as good.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on February 20, 2010, 10:52:56 PM
By the way ... that model up above looks awesome! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on February 20, 2010, 11:37:29 PM
I like the steam spider.

I'd say warhammer needs more steam robots, but then I remember that warmachine game that is nothing but steam robots, and how that isn't as cool as it sounds.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: neverness on February 21, 2010, 02:27:18 AM
I'd say warhammer needs more steam robots, but then I remember that warmachine game that is nothing but steam robots, and how that isn't as cool as it sounds.

You're correct about that sir!

We should all be thankfull that McVey's taint didn't leak it's way over into WHFB before he left GW. I'd hate to imagine the WHFB counterparts for Lemartes or the Jingle-bell striking scorpions...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Union General on February 21, 2010, 08:18:51 PM
I like the steam spider.

I'd say warhammer needs more steam robots, but then I remember that warmachine game that is nothing but steam robots, and how that isn't as cool as it sounds.

Just think of the giant steam-powered spiderbot from Wild, Wild West. You'll have the most bizarre steam tank ever.

-The General
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 27, 2010, 10:51:40 PM
Ok, so i tried the punisher with heavy bolters today against daemons. And by God it is awesome. It destroyed two 15 bloodletter units. Or the majority of them.
It simply just mowed them down. It definitely gets more hits than pie plates. I had two medusas in the list as well, and they were awesome too! Didnt do as many wounds as the punisher, but it really helped thining out a 20 plaguebearer unit.

I also tried the bastion breacher shells against a leman russ heavy and mech inf list.
They are superb anti tank! They cut through anything! And if lucky then you hit fairly well. The only downside is their opentop-ness and their inability to fire indirect so they have to engage in firefights with their targets.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on February 28, 2010, 12:17:36 AM
Ok, so i tried the punisher with heavy bolters today against daemons. And by God it is awesome. It destroyed two 15 bloodletter units. Or the majority of them.
It simply just mowed them down.
Told you so!
 :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 28, 2010, 03:17:05 PM
Next thing i have to try is an infantry list backed by arty and planes. No russes.

And maybe some apocalypse in the Easter break! :O
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Union General on March 01, 2010, 02:21:24 AM
Next thing i have to try is an infantry list backed by arty and planes. No russes.

And maybe some apocalypse in the Easter break! :O

Flank march. Use lots and lots of flank marching.

-The General
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 01, 2010, 10:41:47 AM
Or large units 30 strong with commisar with power weapon and sarge with power weapon. They are actually not bad especially if you have straken around.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 01, 2010, 10:53:55 AM
Yes i usually use 20-30 guys with said commissar and sergeants.

Straken, i havent tried him, but want to!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 01, 2010, 10:55:04 AM
You can try to get some training modules from Union Generals on the proper use of the

"Baaaaaaayonet chaaaaaarge!" scream.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 01, 2010, 01:16:48 PM
Well i already speak "Fix bayonets" fluently and "Take cover" as well! Although it is in the version of "GET DOOOWN!" :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 01, 2010, 01:19:28 PM
You see I am more of a

1 rank fire

2 rank fire

3 rank fire

Person all said in a soft voice while drinking my dry martini posing with the sabre on my shoulder.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 01, 2010, 04:39:38 PM
You see I am more of a

1 rank fire

2 rank fire

3 rank fire

Person all said in a soft voice while drinking my dry martini posing with the sabre on my shoulder.

start up the maxim gun wot!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Union General on March 02, 2010, 02:28:37 AM
You can try to get some training modules from Union Generals on the proper use of the

"Baaaaaaayonet chaaaaaarge!" scream.

The proper scream was executed perfectly by Colonel Joshua Chamberlain at Little Round Top, on July 2nd, 1863, the 2nd day of the Battle of Gettysburg.

BAYONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETSSSSS!

Perfectly applicable to the Imperial Guard as well.  :biggriin:


-The General
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 02, 2010, 03:46:09 AM

sorry I need to chime in here.

Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?

See personally I would say:

Bayonets! Fark Yeah!
Gonna chop you up,
Into little bits of sushi!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Union General on March 02, 2010, 03:58:31 AM

sorry I need to chime in here.

Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?

See personally I would say:

Bayonets! Fark Yeah!
Gonna chop you up,
Into little bits of sushi!

The proper yell is "Fix bayonets!" This is usually highly bravado-charged.

-The General
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 02, 2010, 04:13:59 AM
Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?
We'll probably never really know for sure.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 02, 2010, 04:51:08 AM
Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?
We'll probably never really know for sure.

I had a british guy going off at CW buffs a couple nights back you know the whole "it's a minor bloody affair compared to the ECW tooting their own horn" I found it amusing.

That film Gods and Generals about Stonewall Jackson was awesome. But too far off topic.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 02, 2010, 01:22:14 PM
Yep, 40K and the American Civil War hardly mix.

Here's the thread set up for the American Civil War ...

www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=30924.msg445002 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=30924.msg445002)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 03, 2010, 09:07:57 AM

A mate of mine is doing a 'Nam style guard army using catachans and GS some helmets on them. I was wondering what the best army to do as Viet Cong would be. Also guard just different style? A mate mentioned Tau.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 03, 2010, 09:15:48 AM
I think guards in a different style is the best. Tau are really too techy and the Viet Cong did not suck at close quarters. Infact, they sought to engage the americans at short ranges, to make it difficult for the yanks to use their best tools of superiority, artillery and airstrikes.

There is however the option to use Orkz, and take lots of Kommandoz.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 03, 2010, 09:17:22 AM
you know that could work. Orkz and do in the same jungle base/style as the guard army
 O snap mathi...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 03, 2010, 09:38:22 AM

A mate of mine is doing a 'Nam style guard army using catachans and GS some helmets on them. I was wondering what the best army to do as Viet Cong would be. Also guard just different style? A mate mentioned Tau.

Kroot. Because they eat up their enemies and assimilate their DNA and...

...oh, wait. Perhaps not Kroot, then.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 03, 2010, 09:49:21 AM
Go orkz Nicholas and have one Kommandoz squad include Boss Snikrot for good measure!  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 03, 2010, 01:00:04 PM
Orks.

Goffs, Blood Axes, Death Skulls, and Snakebites might all work.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 03, 2010, 01:02:14 PM
I suggest a combined Snake bites/Blood axe tribe. You ainīt gonna get more VC & NVA than that!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: FictionalCharacter on March 03, 2010, 05:18:57 PM
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 03, 2010, 07:38:58 PM
I got the Battle missions book today!

And i have only looked at the guard, chaos marines and tyranid missions and just skimmed the rest.
But so far alot of them are based on objectives. And all have 1 or 2 special rules or missions for each mission. Deployment is often typical or close to what we know although there are alot of different deployement ways now.
And typically 18" apart from each other.
Tyranids have some missions that are in their favour though. In my mind at least.

The book is great if you want more diversity from the old 3 missions.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 03, 2010, 09:06:32 PM
Great stuff, McKnight!
I am going to get that book and me and my son have talked about it and what has been said about it. Weīre especially exited about the possibility for trench warfare!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 03, 2010, 09:49:47 PM
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.

Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines.  Much better way to go. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: FictionalCharacter on March 03, 2010, 10:45:07 PM
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.

Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines.  Much better way to go. :icon_cool:

oh, i've replaced this temptation with a new one.

i just looked over the warriors of chaos army book, and i'm genuinely ready to trade basically all of my vc for them. seriously.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Castozor on March 03, 2010, 10:55:20 PM
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.

Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines.  Much better way to go. :icon_cool:

oh, i've replaced this temptation with a new one.

i just looked over the warriors of chaos army book, and i'm genuinely ready to trade basically all of my vc for them. seriously.
I take it you suffer just as much from sudden moodswings concerning Warhammer armies as I do.  :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: FictionalCharacter on March 03, 2010, 11:02:14 PM
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.

Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines.  Much better way to go. :icon_cool:

oh, i've replaced this temptation with a new one.

i just looked over the warriors of chaos army book, and i'm genuinely ready to trade basically all of my vc for them. seriously.
I take it you suffer just as much from sudden moodswings concerning Warhammer armies as I do.  :wink:

part of it, yes. the other part is that i kind of stumbled upon my vc army rather than picking it because it suited me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 03, 2010, 11:03:28 PM
I'd take WoC over VC, too. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::

Yet becareful trading whole armies away, or you might regret it someday. :icon_wink:

By the way, do you have pictures of your V.C. army somewhere?

And how did you "stumble" on to it?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: FictionalCharacter on March 03, 2010, 11:06:41 PM
I'd take WoC over VC, too. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::

Yet becareful trading whole armies away, or you might regret it someday. :icon_wink:

By the way, do you have pictures of your V.C. army somewhere?

And how did you "stumble" on to it?

i played vc years ago, and managed to dig the army back up when wiss used his mind control powers to get me to play warhammer again. so i had most of an army already, and it made no sense to start a new one.

i don't have any pictures. i've only just started painting. i have like 3 or 4 guys done and about 8 more nearly done.

vc's great. it's super diverse. but its magic is broken and i kind of want to play a more elite low model count army. i don't know if i'd be able to trade everything anyway, i'd probably more have to sell it all on ebay at a significant loss.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 04, 2010, 01:03:23 AM
play darkelves...they're elite.
Warriors are just overcosted so much to make them nigh on useless. Literally drop 2-3 points off everything and add 1-2 points on marauders and you'd have a decent list. As it stands now Warriors at 16pts is a 2-3pt per model handicap to your opponent.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 04, 2010, 02:23:13 AM
WoC seems like a lower total number of figures type of army, the models are cool, and its certainly fluffy against Empire.  Not that V.C. isn't fluffy.  Only started painting, how do you like it?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 04, 2010, 02:35:39 AM
fantasy in the 40k thread?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 04, 2010, 02:52:05 AM
 :icon_lol:  Yep, imagine that on a WFB thread. :icon_wink:

He wanted to trade his VC for AoBR space marines.

Not like it hasn't happened the other way around, too. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 04, 2010, 02:56:25 AM
well i was indignant about the whole 40-ACW thing (I think it would be cool to do CSM and SM in Civil War Colours... or do guard that way...)


then i reminded myself this was a fantasy forum...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 04, 2010, 03:11:59 AM
Yep, and I was agreeing wiht you at that point, too. :icon_lol:

Those would be good color schemes for all your suggestions. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: FictionalCharacter on March 04, 2010, 03:19:52 AM
just to establish closure, i drank the koolaid and bought my first box of chaos warriors tonight.

...what can i say...

anybody need some grave guard?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 04, 2010, 03:31:01 AM
 :icon_lol:

Uh oh.  We're all doomed! :icon_eek:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 04, 2010, 11:08:36 AM
How many Grave guards do you have? and are they the newest edition? :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 04, 2010, 11:11:09 AM
Hey! I have a first shot at everything VC FictionalCharacter has!




:icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 04, 2010, 11:51:19 AM
Hmm I have the smallest army, therefore im entitled to get first dips:P

Not that i have the money or anything xD

But all this talk about VC made me want to paint my skellies.. and they are 200km away xD
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 04, 2010, 04:14:52 PM
Smallest WFB army or 40K army :icon_question:

And by the way ... FC has a thread going regarding his VC over in the trading area. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 04, 2010, 05:21:49 PM
Smallest VC army :P

I also have Empire, Ogres and Skaven... and Imperial guard and Daemon hunters... its terrible, i know.

Oh cool, gonna check it out! Oh well, guess not. The mods were in a bad mood.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 05, 2010, 10:12:30 AM
Looks like I have had it with fantasy until a new Ogre book is out, because of the reliable rumours are true, the Ogres won't stand much of chance. The current book at least makes them playable but with 8th? We shall see.

Beastmen don't cut it, their way of play is very one-dimensional and they lack warmachines of any kind (Cygors don't count).

Instead I am looking at complementing my Orks with something else.

Red Templar Space Marines and a chance for me to paint battle worn tin men.  :icon_cool:

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 05, 2010, 12:01:57 PM
You sound like me Slord. 40k is the way to go.

Maybe you should wait for the new blood angels? They sound really nasty! But its another Close combat army for you.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 05, 2010, 12:13:41 PM
I have been a Space Wolf fan for a long time, but somehow never gotten around to make an army.
However, the talks about the new Blood Angels makes them feel very interesting too me. I would get an excuse to paint lots of red, one of my favourite colours, and it would break away from the colour style of my Orkz and my Imperial guards.
Heck, it would even break away from my Empire Stirlanders and my Wood elf army, who is winterthemed with lot of whites and greys with some brown here and there for leather.

But at the same time, my son wants me to start Chaos marines, but I find the list dull. Also, he wants to face Iron warriors which would match his Imperial Fists for the grudge, but I donīt like the Iron warrior feel... I really would like to do something in bright gaudy colours for once.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 05, 2010, 01:38:27 PM
Looks like I have had it with fantasy until a new Ogre book is out, because of the reliable rumours are true, the Ogres won't stand much of chance. The current book at least makes them playable but with 8th? We shall see.

Beastmen don't cut it, their way of play is very one-dimensional and they lack warmachines of any kind (Cygors don't count).

Instead I am looking at complementing my Orks with something else.

Red Templar Space Marines and a chance for me to paint battle worn tin men.  :icon_cool:
Will you bring pictures here to share what your up to painting them, or is their another location where you'll be posting such?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 05, 2010, 06:32:02 PM
Maybe, I am not sure.

I did post someting over at warhammer.uk.org but I only visit the Glass Cabinet there, the rest if very sucky for the most part. And I only check the rumour sections on Warseer. My forum time is less than it has been.  :icon_confused:

And my Empire days are over for good (I tried to start again but there was no passion left).

Maybe you should wait for the new blood angels? They sound really nasty! But its another Close combat army for you.

Exactly!  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 05, 2010, 06:57:03 PM
Well, it would be a shame if you dissappear from here completley, cause you have been a great inspiration for me. And maybe you passed over part of your Empire passion to me, cause it just keeps on going!  :::cheers:::

Anyway, may the Ladz nevar fall out of your passion. Not that I believe it is possible to loose the green passion once the bug caught you.  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 05, 2010, 07:05:21 PM
And my Empire days are over for good (I tried to start again but there was no passion left).
Hope I don't experience that cause for Empire is much fun, at least currently.

How long did you do Empire?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 05, 2010, 07:53:35 PM
Maybe, I am not sure.

I did post someting over at warhammer.uk.org but I only visit the Glass Cabinet there, the rest if very sucky for the most part. And I only check the rumour sections on Warseer. My forum time is less than it has been.  :icon_confused:

And my Empire days are over for good (I tried to start again but there was no passion left).

Maybe you should wait for the new blood angels? They sound really nasty! But its another Close combat army for you.

Exactly!  :icon_cool:

I thought you ment those guys but had to be sure:P

My fantasy days are also scarce, but i still hang around here :)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 05, 2010, 08:07:46 PM
How long did you do Empire?

4 minutes at a time...  :icon_rolleyes:

I think 5 years - and they were stopping me mentally from collecting any armies. Since they were sold, I have been able to paint a whole Ogre army, or at least a chunk (3000+ pts) of it, start with Orks, and are planning to start with SM.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 05, 2010, 10:33:29 PM
How long did you do Empire?
4 minutes at a time...  :icon_rolleyes:
:icon_lol:

Quote
I think 5 years - and they were stopping me mentally from collecting any armies. Since they were sold, I have been able to paint a whole Ogre army, or at least a chunk (3000+ pts) of it, start with Orks, and are planning to start with SM.
Interesting that doing one army was a block against doing others.

For WFB I am primarily working on Empire, and for 40K I'm primarily working on Orks.  I move back and forth between the two, depending on my mood.  The T&G campaign has motivated me back in the direction of Empire, and off my recent focus on Orks.  At the same time, I've started picking up a few number of Germans for FoW, Napoleonic figures for Lasalle, and occasionally picking up things for other WFB armies like O&G, WoC, and Brets which I can see myself slowly growing over time, along with SM for 40K.  I tend to work on multiple projects over the long run.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 05, 2010, 10:42:04 PM
You are a bot.

You played much FoW yet?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 05, 2010, 11:06:28 PM
Nope.  Trying to learn 40K (and learn WFB better).

When you say bot, does this mean robot?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 06, 2010, 10:04:06 AM
FOW is the awesomest table game i have tried. Its difficult but pure awesome.

Mostly because of the beautiful models and my addiction to WW2! Its a shame i traded my 2nd ss panzer for an IG army, helluva trade but i still miss my panzers  :icon_cry:
Although we only played like 3 games or something.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 06, 2010, 06:56:28 PM
Would love to play FoW except it is WWII and I am no fan.

However after installing Company of Heroes, that may change...

Some 40K:

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/BA-Sanguinary-guard-preview.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/BA-preview-02.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/BA-preview-03.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 06, 2010, 07:04:05 PM
How dare you bring 40k into this!

Also, Company of Heroes rocks, we need a third for multiplayer, as McKnight is unreliable.  :engel:

I like the Sanguinary Guard a lot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 06, 2010, 07:16:41 PM
Holy crap!

I just wet my pants!  :Ohmy:

Well, i know what my next army is going to be!! when are they coming??

We can have a game now D :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 06, 2010, 07:20:34 PM
Blood Angels in April!

Showed the pics earlier to my friends and they, well two of them said: BOUGHT!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 06, 2010, 07:27:07 PM
Omg, must start saving! Sell some stuff I dont need! Like, my PC, TV and... my glasses!


More pictures Lord! :O
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 06, 2010, 07:30:27 PM
The sprues look awesome (see warseer).  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 06, 2010, 07:38:21 PM
I dont go to whineseer, good sir.

I cant navigate their site. And i hate whiners  :dry:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 06, 2010, 07:43:03 PM
I only read the rumour round-up but here you go:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248074
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 06, 2010, 08:57:20 PM
Thanks mah homie! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 07, 2010, 01:36:14 PM
I only read the rumour round-up but here you go:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248074
Wow. Those Blood Angels look absolutely awesome.
The models for the Sanguinary Guard with that SC... just wow. And cool rules-wise as well. I like the idea of the grapple thingy on dreads. Reminds me of good old Scorpion in Mortal Kombat 2. "Come HERE!" *WHAM!*
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 07, 2010, 05:35:59 PM
Hmmm ... space marines with wings ... what about just wearing a jump pack or something?  Whats the fluff behind space marines having wings?

Looks a bit like something one might see on a Chaos Space Marine, maybe.

Course I might be displaying my ignorance regarding 40K on this, but oh well, learning can be good. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 07, 2010, 06:16:02 PM
To be honest, I agree with GamesPoet. Why would the Blood Angels special guard and character have angelic wings instead of jump-packs?

 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 07, 2010, 06:48:08 PM
Plastic wings!
HArpy conversionŽ
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 07, 2010, 07:05:17 PM
I thought a harpy was big?

But feathery wings for a harpy isnt really right, in my mind :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 07, 2010, 07:08:57 PM
And that is why you will never succeed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 07, 2010, 07:17:33 PM
Well Harpies mythologically = women/bird crosses.

The ones I bought are the old bat looking ones from the Beastmen book. I bought a load off ebay without wings, so plastic wings which I can pin on would be great.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 07, 2010, 07:22:37 PM
Oooh!

Sorry i was thinking of the Tyranid Harpy thing!

For DE harpies they might work :) just paint them darkish colours.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on March 07, 2010, 07:24:38 PM
To be honest, I agree with GamesPoet. Why would the Blood Angels special guard and character have angelic wings instead of jump-packs?

 :engel:

Not like their primarch had wings and could fly or anything...Where's my sarc mark?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 07, 2010, 07:42:52 PM
Fact is, after an initial rush to "OMG gotta have some Blood smurfs!!!" I felt that I really should get that Chaos Space marine force my son has been pushing me too do sometime started. Cheapest possible GW army to collect sort of.

But not really one of those Chaos fanatic armies but more of a mercenary company of self-serving marines with an inclination for Khrone but with their own set of... "honour".  :engel:

I mean, you would get to shout "Blood for the Blood god!" now and then, but in a somewhat casual manner fitting a mercenary.  :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 07, 2010, 10:42:47 PM
Yeah, Sanguinius had wings.  The blood angels are nuts because of his geneseed, why not get wings from it too?

Black Templar are the best Marines around.  Who couldn't love that color scheme?

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 08, 2010, 12:04:10 AM
People with a fear of monochrome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Union General on March 08, 2010, 12:31:03 AM
Yeah, Sanguinius had wings.  The blood angels are nuts because of his geneseed, why not get wings from it too?

Black Templar are the best Marines around.  Who couldn't love that color scheme?

Phil

Pfft. It's the Ultramarines, of course. Anyone wearing blue can't go wrong...  :closed-eyes:

 :icon_mrgreen:

-The General
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 08, 2010, 10:40:17 AM
Black templars also look awesome!
I dno about their rules though, I heard they were a bit outdated.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 08, 2010, 11:24:17 AM
Black Templar are the best Marines around.  Who couldn't love that color scheme?

How may I take your order? Me!

Painting lining with black is as fun as shaving my bean bag with a pair of slow sheep shears.

The fluff however, yeah but I rather go with the alternative Red Templars' color found in the Space Marine codex.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 08, 2010, 01:27:38 PM
Very true, Shadowlord. Red tabards with white crosses, in a variation of the colours of the Knights of St. John.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Duce on March 08, 2010, 02:09:06 PM
They need to get to Black templars now, I'm dying for a hand to hand marine army, wolves aren't bad but not my thing, and the twilight... blood angels sorry are also only ok, the templars knight theme i love more.

still waiting for someone to mispell harpies as herpies  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 08, 2010, 02:55:04 PM
BA are up on the GW website for pre-order:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat400003a&rootCatGameStyle=

BUY!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 08, 2010, 03:17:33 PM
I dont see those red jump pack guys   :?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 08, 2010, 06:40:56 PM
Well bugger me sideways with a Japanese whaling vessel.

I may have to purchase some of that action.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 08, 2010, 06:44:54 PM
Well bugger me sideways with a Japanese whaling vessel.
Have you been spending time with Shadowlord again?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 08, 2010, 07:45:17 PM
I think he must have been around the Sea Sheperds lately. I donīt think Shadowlord uses whaling vessels. Itīs below him... He strangles the whales with his bare hands.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 09, 2010, 10:14:04 AM
Damn 20Ģ for 5 models. This is really expensive xD
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 09, 2010, 10:25:14 AM
Damn 20Ģ for 5 models. This is really expensive xD
Ha! Have you looked at Terminators lately?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 09, 2010, 10:58:15 AM
Damn 20Ģ for 5 models. This is really expensive xD
Indeed, and I only want the wings!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 09, 2010, 11:19:44 AM
Buy them when they come on ebay Finlay, you cant be the only one in need of wings :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 09, 2010, 06:25:48 PM
When making space marines, I'm contemplating creating The Mentors, because of their color scheme and what minimal background I've seen.  Regarding this chapter, besides the usual locations on the internet located in the first few pages of google, has anyone seen anything about these guys fluff wise, elsewhere?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 10, 2010, 01:42:58 AM
Lexicanium is pretty much the end all and be all of 40k fluff and it is fantastic!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 10, 2010, 04:35:55 AM
Thanks, and yes, read what they ahd on The Mentors, but also recall something about them not seeming to be completely upto date regarding what The Mentors are currently like fluff wise.

Has anyone seen mention of these guys in any of the Black Library's stuff :icon_question:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 10, 2010, 10:31:10 PM
I think there is a blurb from the most recent Marine book, but the Lexicanium normally tabulates everything from the novels eventually.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 15, 2010, 05:16:45 PM
I need a Math dude.

You know that I am, like Shadowlord, starting a blood angels army.
But i need to know wether that twinlinked assault cannon Baal predator is a solid antitank choice or if i need to expand my horizon and use lascannons?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 15, 2010, 07:19:53 PM
From my gut feeling, I'd rather go for the flamer equipped one if I took a Predator at all. Lascannons are a better AT choice. But meltas and multimeltas, along with Dreadnought cc should be the best AT, and the BAs are a very in-your-face army. So I propably wouldn't bother using anything as static as a Devastator squad. Besides, there are other very nice things in the heavy support section, I love the concept of that asssault transport skimmer... shame there won't be a model for it. Which is a bit problematic, because a Valk seems a bit too small to transport 12 Marines and a Dreadnought.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 15, 2010, 08:45:32 PM
I dno about the flame Baal. It is a risky choice since it only has 10 in rear armour.

Im gonna use my valkyrie for the stormraven i think. I always thought that the dreadnought would be carried underneath it or something.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 15, 2010, 09:34:14 PM
Is the TLAC meant for heavy, medium, or light armor duty?

It will shred light armor, do decently against medium, and mostly bounce off of heavy, though with the shear number of shots you'll do something.

You have a 59% chance to get a six for armor pen each time you roll.

So you'll generally be penning 9-12, glancing 13, and doing crapall to 14.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 15, 2010, 09:42:54 PM
Well my friend and i were trying to come up with some numbers and our result was that it actually has a higher chance than a single lascannon.
But it might be a crap math thing:P

Oh and we are talking Av14 :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 16, 2010, 07:38:54 AM
Did some tinkering with the WWII 1/35 scale models last night.
Now I got to paint an ork Battlewagon based on an Elephant tank destroyer, a Battlewagon or Looted Boomwagon using a Sherman and finally a Wartrakk with plates and twinlinked rokkitz based on a 250/9 german halftrakk with a Nebelwerfer mounted upon it!  :icon_mrgreen:

I also assembled my Stormboyz and managed to make one properly noby by giving him a Big Choppa and a bigger Slugga. How sweet those Stormboyz are! Truly magnificent piece of minis.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 16, 2010, 12:12:24 PM
Well my friend and i were trying to come up with some numbers and our result was that it actually has a higher chance than a single lascannon.
But it might be a crap math thing:P

Oh and we are talking Av14 :P

Las has a 22% chance of doing *something* to AV14. TLAC has a 27% chance.

So really about the same.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 16, 2010, 01:42:15 PM
And what does the assault cannon have? :P

It is also fast so  you might have that extra mobility it requires to get a flank shot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 16, 2010, 09:12:32 PM
Oh sorry, i read the TLAC as a twinlinked lascannon :P.. thanks!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 16, 2010, 11:39:41 PM
Note that that's only twinlinked AC's though.

Assault cannon's have around 9%.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 17, 2010, 07:58:09 AM
Hehe yea and i hit those 9% once :P

What about a twin lascannon?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 20, 2010, 01:24:06 PM
I'm playing in a tournament next weekend, and I am a bit undecided concerning my current list. It basically has:
 a Tzeentch-maked DP with wings, Chaoswind and Warptime
Tzeentch General on a Disk with Demon weapon
2 7-man CSM squads in Rhinos with toyed-up Champs and IOCG, one with plasma, one with melta focus
7 Thousand Sons in a Rhino, sorcerer with Doombolt
8 Berzerkers in a Landraider with a fist Champ
6 Raptors with a wolverine champ and 2 flamers to keep the General company
a Defiler
The LR the 'zerkers ride in and
5 Havocs in a rhino, toting 4 plasma guns.

Now, I am seriously considering getting rid of the Sons. I love them dearly, but I just don't seem to get my mileage out of them. With some shuffling around, that would allow me to include some DS-ing Terminators (pretty nice with those icons around) and either a Greater Demon or a Chaos Dreadnought. I favor the Dreadnought at the moment because I have a soft spot for it, and a nicely painted model besides. I know it has its problems, but hey! What doesn't? The GD would mean sacrificing one of my champs, and frankly they are not very disposable. The ones in my standard squads have either a fist or powersword plus combiweapon, so that would be a rather expensive sacrifice.
The main problem with the whole idea is I would only have three standards...

Revised (possible) list follows. Ideas are welcome!

***************  2 HQ  *************** 

Demon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Warptime
- Wind of Chaos
 - - - > 205

Chaos Lord
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Demonweapon
- Demonic mount
 - - - > 175


***************  2 Elite  *************** 

Chaos Dreadnought
- Plasma Cannon
- DCCW
- Heavy Flamer
- additional armor
 - - - > 125

4 Chaos Terminators
- 1 x Chainfist
- 3 x combimelta
- 1 x Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 155


***************  3 Troops *************** 

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melta
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Combimelta
   - Power Fist
+ Rhino
 - - - > 210

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Plasma Gun
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Combiplasma
   - Power Sword
   - Meltabombs
+ Rhino
 - - - > 210

8 Khorne Berzerkers
+ Skull Champ
   - Power Fist
 - - - > 208


***************  1 Fast Attack *************** 

5 Raptors
- 2 x Flamers
+ Aspiring Champion
   - pair of Power Claws
 - - - > 150


***************  3 Unterstützung  *************** 

Defiler
- Battlecannon
- DCCW
- DCCW
 - - - > 150

Chaos Land Raider
- Demonic Engine
 - - - > 240

5 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Plasma Guns
+ Rhino
 - - - > 170


Total: 1998


Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 21, 2010, 11:54:58 AM
I'd just take Orks if I were you. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 21, 2010, 12:00:44 PM
I'll be facing some Orcs. Races are actually pretty concentrated in this event. There'll be me as the only CSM player, one Tyranid, one Dark Eldar. All the rest are IG, Orcs and Space Marines.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 21, 2010, 12:23:21 PM
Don't mind me.  I saw your list and it looked complicated, and decided to post something silly. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 21, 2010, 01:09:43 PM
I assume you mean plasma cannons and not guns on the Havocs?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 21, 2010, 01:44:39 PM
No its plasma guns, Havocs cant get cannons.

I dont know about your list though. It looks small for a 2k list. I rarely play 2k so i dont know that much about it.
I dont know how useful those havocs will be. Maybe change them with a vindicator?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 21, 2010, 07:17:40 PM
Oh, the Havocs are tried and tested, and they work like a charm. They can just sit in their mobile bunker and pepper something with 4 shots from the hatches, or disembark and really put on the hurt with a solid torrent of 8 plasma shots. That tends to leave a large, smoking dent in most targets. I am rather proud of the idea actually.
I am more troubled about my number of troops choices for capturing objectives. Trouble is that the very cheapest troops choice I can take costs me 65 points (a squad of 5 summoned demons), and freeing up that much without changing the structure of the list is out of the question. I could just take the same list as last time I suppose (that one got me 4 wins, 1 loss at the last tournament), but I thought that would be boring. It's not that much different, I basically leave out the Chaos Lord and the Dreadnought and take 5 Terminators instead of 4 and 8 T-sons. I'm just looking for a good way to give my Lord another go at it without changing too much.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 21, 2010, 07:32:27 PM
Thats good then! :-D

I dont know much about the chaos guys, but TS and their Ap3 is nice :P


Note on Blood angels: The codex is out on the interwebs. PM me. :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 22, 2010, 12:28:50 AM
Wowzers. The Death Company is basically Khorne Berzerkers on Steroids. All the goodies those get, plus feel no pain and relentless. For less points. With more equipment options. For the little "drawback" of rage. Which doesn't matter squat if you transport them. In their fast transports. Just rush a Rhino forward 18" in the first turn and smoke, on the second turn disembark 6" and charge. With my Chaos dudes I need a freakin' Land Raider to pull this off.
Add Lemartes or another Chaplain to the squad (for those sweet, sweet rerolls to hit and wound), and you might be looking at the best assault troops in the game.
But even without the chaplain, you are looking at 40 S5 WS5 attacks at I5 for 200 points. And you can just add powerswords, fists or thunderhammers as you please.
Sick!
Those guys should curbstomp a unit of 30 Moshaboyz without breaking a sweat.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 22, 2010, 06:36:05 AM
So 40k is still the more balanced system?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 07:23:30 AM
Wowzers. The Death Company is basically Khorne Berzerkers on Steroids. All the goodies those get, plus feel no pain and relentless. For less points. With more equipment options. For the little "drawback" of rage. Which doesn't matter squat if you transport them. In their fast transports. Just rush a Rhino forward 18" in the first turn and smoke, on the second turn disembark 6" and charge. With my Chaos dudes I need a freakin' Land Raider to pull this off.
Add Lemartes or another Chaplain to the squad (for those sweet, sweet rerolls to hit and wound), and you might be looking at the best assault troops in the game.
But even without the chaplain, you are looking at 40 S5 WS5 attacks at I5 for 200 points. And you can just add powerswords, fists or thunderhammers as you please.
Sick!
Those guys should curbstomp a unit of 30 Moshaboyz without breaking a sweat.

Hehe yea and their job is to die. Guess they will hope that they wont suceed in close combat :P
But i was thinking about getting them jump packs but i see your point:P. Lemartes seems very expensive (chaplains in general)
Im having a hard time fitting stuff into a list, they are very expensive.
And all those elite choices! yummy! But its hard to choose a normal HQ which isnt a special character.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 22, 2010, 09:26:07 AM
I was thinking about Astorath the Grim, 2 Librarian Furiosos and 2 units of mounted-up Death Company as the armies hammers. The problem I have with Astorath is choosing an appropriate bodyguard for him that won't b wiped out by a single round of rapid-fire and that still packs a punch. And it needs to be jump-pack troops. I guess normal Assault Marines would work... 10 or so. With Astorath leading the army they have a 50% chance of having Red Thirst and therefore furious charge. They can pull off a "Descent of Angels" attack when some of the enemy firepower is already destroyed or engaged.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 22, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
Well, t12, I believe 40K suddenly turned Rock-paper-sissor again...  :icon_rolleyes:

I mean, they just had to create a insane assault army that basically win or loose by turn two. Not my idea of fun but I am sure many competitive gamers will be jubilant.
How the heck do my Boyz counter such an army!  :icon_eek:

Best make sure my son NEVER gets to read the Blood Angel codex. Sure as hell ainīt gonna by it myself. Not a chance... Thing is he was into the Blood Angels old list before he got the Lysander mini and turned towards the Imperial fists.

Okay, I guess I better get myself a shitload of what... Boomwagons... and pray their first volley lands on target cause there sure wonīt be a second volley. Oh, that an some Meganobz with claws. And lots of Gretchin fodder to tie them down for a round so I an blast a bit more and hopefully gun the red smurfs down before they reach my line.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 22, 2010, 11:20:48 AM
Orcs should have plenty of ways to deal with BA. Orcs are pretty much one of the strongest 'dexes in 40k right now.
In case it has escaped you: You are playing an "insane assault army" as well...
 :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 11:39:48 AM
Yes stop that nonsense Mathi. Orks can outnumber them 3:1 and have the same number of attacks :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 11:41:50 AM
Nice stuff Aldaris but you lack objective takers  :dry:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 22, 2010, 12:13:13 PM
I said those units would form the hammer of the army. That should be (very roughly) about 1350 or so. Still would leave me plenty of room for more standards.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 12:24:03 PM
Oh you play 2k? ... Meh :P
Its hard to make a 1.5k

Heres my try:

HQ:  Librarian with jump pack, psychic powers not decided (joins one assault squad)

Elite:
Chaplain, nilla, joins death Comp

Librarian furioso with drop pod / maybe this should go since it has to enter play in turn one.

Troops:
9 Death company
- 1 powerfist
- 3 powerweapons.
In rhino with extra armour

10 assault marines
- powerfist
- 2 meltas

10 assault marines
- powerfist
-1 melta

Fast:

Dakka baal
-heavy bolters

Dakka baal
- heavy bolters
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 22, 2010, 01:07:28 PM
Well, I have seen a 20 strong mob get whiped out by one Demolisher template. I have also expirienced how my proud slugga boyz with a nob first almost broke a unit of Space marines and then got slaughtered in the coming rounds when Lysander muscled in.
In the end, he passed his saves much more easily than I passed mine on +6.  :icon_razz:

Orkz are brutal in the assault... against Guards, eldars and such. Against Marines I feel they mostly just end up pounding metal screaming guttural curses while the Marines calmy reload their bolters.

I realize that if they take down one unit of boyz, they will not be able to overrun into the next and I will  be able to make a counter-assault. Still, the only thing I trust in making any dent into a Marine squad is a powerclaw, and the only unit able to trott many of them are the nobz. And sorry, I sort of like to take a balanced force, and I love the shoota boyz.

My elites, my nobz that is, might stand a chance in a scrap. The rest will have to cling on for grim Green and pray my son flukes his saving throws.
Now, I am planning to add a large unit of burna boyz to my army. At present I got 5 of them. But the problem is that since he Marine boyz got better initiative, there will not be many Burna boyz left to use the burnaz upon them.

Hence, I guess I better load up on Rokkit launchaz... Anything that helps me kill those brutes before they reach my innocent ladz is a good thing.

And then we have my Imperial guardsmen that are slowly growing. I guess I will have to take back my desicion of droping the Missile launchers in favour of Heavy bolters and such. Seems the wise thing to do is get a battery or two of them, and not to forget them plasma guns on each squad.
Oh, and I really need to get Stormtrooper. One squad was planned since it would fit my theme, but if I will have to face them Bloodies in the future I will need something like 2 squads maked out on Marine killing shootaz.

This is the problem when you make one force simply too good at shooting or too good at CC. It turns the game into Rock-Paper-Sissor and settles it on turn two depending on if I can kill enough of the oncoming tide of destruction. When something gets so good that you simply cannot risk any CC whatsoever, things turn ugly.
So max out on plasma guns, Imperial fellows, and maybe keep some meltas. The Blood Angels are coming and they will slaughter anything in their path.

So what if they are few. If they donīt die and my ladz does, they will soon be in majority on the table. Hence, donīt try any heroics against Blood Angels. Load up on stuff that pierces AS3 and AS2 and shot them to smithereens... Donīt give them a chance of getting at you or the game is lost. Sure, it wonīt be so fun for the Blood Angel player, but itīs him or me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 01:20:00 PM
Dude what are you talking about?

Your boyz' nobz can also have power claws and the marines are bound to fail their saves with that mass of attack.
Also use kill kanonz, they are awesome.

Also the blood angels arent crazy overpowered like you are screaming about. Its only the Death company that is a monster in CC, but they have rage, so if you shoot their rhino (av11!!) you can lure them practically anywhere.
The rest of the army is almost just a spacemarine army, with assault squads. They only have 1 attack in their profile, so 3 attacks when assaulting. Not nearly enough to eradicate lots of orcs.
Sure they have awesome dreads, but if they get immobilised they can just stand there and look stupid.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 22, 2010, 01:44:11 PM
Well, I have seen a 20 strong mob get whiped out by one Demolisher template.
Then you should seriously work on your spacing. It should never, ever be possible for your opponent to get so many under one template. Not even after a deepstrike - use your shooting phase to run and disperse a bit.
The only situation I can think of that would result in boyz being this packed at all is if you assaulted a vehicle, after which you're not allowed to consolidate. This you need to take into account - if there's a high propability you'll be plastered with templates in your opponents turn, don't give him fat, juicy targets.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 22, 2010, 02:29:10 PM
Well, I think there was not 20 orkz, maybe 15 or so. I was mobbing up on my sons IG HQ. He held somehow, he turned his demolisher cannon my way. I asked if he really wanted to do it since he would risk scattering into his own men. One reason for me getting up close and personal was too grab him by the belt and avoid his blasting.
He fired anyway and landed perfectly.  :dry:

Alright, I play orkz the orky way. My ladz donīt give a crap about formation and stuff. They wanna shoot some dakka and crump stuff, thatīs it!  :icon_razz:

Hmm... I think my tankbustaz may come in handy...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 02:33:51 PM
You cant shoot into close combat?


Your best bet would be a walker army.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 22, 2010, 02:44:16 PM
guys I need help. I want to do a 40k army but can't decide what.

Armies I'm interested in:

Tau - simply because they are apparently really hard to play with
Orks - models are awesome and speedfreaks "Helz Orksus" really really appeals to me
Space Wolves - drop pod assault army
Imperial Fists - Lysander and I like the Yellow/black scheme
I have some nids' but I'm in the process of selling them I also have a few tau figs

I don't want to derail this thread from it's current direction but I would appreciate some help and advice on 40k as I have no idea at all about the game (not having played since 3rd ed).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 03:22:10 PM
Space wolves arent the only droppod assault army. Normal spacemarines can do it just aswell, but the wolves are nasty in CC. More nasty than Blood angels.. mathi :P


Anyways. Tau has cool army and are best when mechanised so they can deploy rapidly and avoid CC with their fire warriors.

Right now we see a tendency of mechanised lists in 40k because transports have become very cheap, so an army without transports is going to be driven around.

If you want to try a difficult army, then try Grey knights. They are really difficult but not totally chanceless.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 22, 2010, 03:37:11 PM
Orkz, cause they rocks! No, not because they are powerful and competitive and such gibberish Mcknight and them weakhearted folks talk about but because they rocks!

You get mean, then you go green!  :closed-eyes:

As for walkers, I donīt own a single ork walker, Mcknight. They donīt really fit my theme. I have vehicles and battlewagons and lots and lots of boyz. That is my theme.
I guess I could put buzzsaws on my Deffkoptaz though...

Alright, alright. I know them new Kanz are really a good bargain moneywise, and yes they are cool. But I have plans for two battlewagons, beyond the one my Nobz rides in, and then I am making a battery of Kannonz, cause it feels so awesome to field proper artillery for once in 40K.
And I try to put as much of the 1/35 scale models to use as possible. Including anti-tank guns etc...

I guess I could get me a Deff Dread though, and field it in a 2500 point army so I can get my Big mek in aswell. But it will not fit into my 2000 point force at the moment.
I could drop a Battlewagon but only two battlewagons in total is not proper and unorky... Especially for a band of orkz who specializes in Forvart Rekun!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
This for Mathi and his rabid ranting...

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CbSWEUnVCVU/S3JqVpQuduI/AAAAAAAABEo/dh6IVq2IQos/s1600/If%2BThe%2BRumours%2BWere%2BTrue.jpg)

You walk around with just boyz without transports, you are bound to loose against guards.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 22, 2010, 06:16:50 PM
Space wolves arent the only droppod assault army. Normal spacemarines can do it just aswell, but the wolves are nasty in CC. More nasty than Blood angels.. mathi :P

Say what?  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 06:42:18 PM
They have more attacks, counter assault and mark of wulfen for starters.
Can get reroll to hit and wound with their lightning claw armed terminators with a priest etc
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 22, 2010, 06:44:24 PM
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 06:45:31 PM
AWell you could start to drive more than 6" then he only hits on 6s...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 22, 2010, 07:08:09 PM
But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
How will he do that, unless you already did move, thus making you rather hard to hit? And he'd be doing you a favor actually. CCing a transport full of assault troops gets you exactly one result: being assaulted by them next turn.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 22, 2010, 07:41:46 PM
Alright, I play orkz the orky way. My ladz donīt give a crap about formation and stuff. They wanna shoot some dakka and crump stuff, thatīs it!  :icon_razz:
Da orks is cunnning and brutal, not just brutal. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 22, 2010, 07:43:43 PM
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Be creative, not just a bull dog. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 09:05:16 PM
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Be creative, not just a bull dog. :icon_wink:

Hey stop derailing the topic xD
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 22, 2010, 09:07:46 PM
Eyy! Yer talkin like em Blood axes, ye gitty umies! By the way I believe you cannot assault the turn you disembark normally. Or have I gotten that wrong?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 22, 2010, 09:14:24 PM
You can from opentopped vehicles and assault vehicles (landraiders and stormravens).

In normal transports you can assault if you disembark before the vehicle has moved.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 22, 2010, 09:59:28 PM
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Be creative, not just a bull dog. :icon_wink:
Hey stop derailing the topic xD
The thread title, at the moment, does say, "40K". :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 23, 2010, 12:02:38 PM
What does a bull dog have to do with anything 40k ? XD
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 23, 2010, 12:07:25 PM
Everything! The bulldog personifies the greatest virtues of them all:  Presistence.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 23, 2010, 01:06:15 PM
What does a bull dog have to do with anything 40k ? XD
See Mathi's post above.  Its his method of playing 40K orks, and looks like its his view of playing the game as a whole. :icon_wink:

Mathi ... orks are suppose to be both cunning and brutal.  That's how they can beat anybody.  Including the Blood Angels.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 23, 2010, 01:37:48 PM
Rubbish, I can be cunning playing the game in many ways. But the tactical advice given by a master ork strategist in the Codex is. And I quote:
Get em ladz! Dakka, dakka, dakka! Waagh, the orkz! WAAGH!

Now first Dakka an then Waagh! Seems mightie kunnin to mee, umiee!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 23, 2010, 04:18:51 PM
And what page is that on?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 23, 2010, 07:14:03 PM
Well, to learn how to play 40K the true way, you just need to listen to this tune and get in the mood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf45I1ZI__w
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 23, 2010, 08:36:01 PM
Ok Mathi, but that doesn't answer the question.

And fire first, then charge ... can't be that cunning with the Ork ballistic skills being low. :icon_wink:

Good luck Mathi. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 24, 2010, 08:44:02 AM
It is still in the book. Straight from the horses... eh, I mean Orkzies mouth!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 25, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
Preordered 2 death companies and a sanguinary guard box at my work! yay! :D


What do you guys think of this list (i have made gazillions)?

HQ: Dante

Troops:
10 death company w/ 2 powerweapons
1 Death company dread
10 assault marines w/ 2 meltas and powersword
 Sanguinary guard w/ 1 inferno pistol

Fast:
2 baal preds with heavy bolters and assault cannon
Heavy:
Stormraven, twin multimelta and twin assault cannon
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 25, 2010, 11:00:17 AM
Only one scoring unit.

It is killy, but all your opponent needs to do is kill the assault squad to get at least a draw in 2/3 of all missions.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 25, 2010, 11:14:02 AM
Oops sorry, Dante makes the Sanguinary guard troops.  :P

2 scoring units. :P

Oh and the death company guys and dread go in the stormraven.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 25, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
Still too few...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 25, 2010, 12:34:20 PM
Hey I play grey knights! Im used to 2 :P

But what do you suggest then?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Dihenydd on March 25, 2010, 05:53:47 PM
Has the Blood Angels list changed or is it still that d/l version from a year or so back?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 25, 2010, 06:23:37 PM
I believe the updated version has come out or comes out soon.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 25, 2010, 07:31:43 PM
Yes it has changed. It will be out on april 4th i think
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Dihenydd on March 25, 2010, 09:15:49 PM
Hmmm, the last one had a great loophole army I almost built.

52 Jump marines including command characters and Death squad or whatever they are called
10 (2x5) Assault Terminators.
1800 pts.

45 Jump marines including command characters etc with slightly different wargear
10 (2x5) Assault Terminators
1700 pts.


Would have been worth it just to say in most missions.  Ok, my deployment is done.  With nothing on the table.  and still have 5 scoring units!  Plus unlike every other army I ever made, 60 or so models total.

Only other theme army I made similar was the 83 Genestealer plus 1 Broodlord army.  "What's a shooting phase?"  It was sweet b/c the game rarely went past turn 4.  I've either sliced and diced or was shot to pieces.  Nice tourney army!  Occasionally you get to hit the enemy with a full squad on the Charge, 48 rending attacks...

Awesome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 27, 2010, 09:20:56 AM
so, I'll be off for the two day 40K tournament soon. Really looking forward to it too. My finalized list:

***************  1 HQ  ***************

Demon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Warptime
- Wind of Chaos
 - - - > 205

***************  2 Elite  ***************

Chaos Dreadnought
- Plasma Cannon
- DCCW
- Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 110

5 Chaos Terminators
- 1 x Chainfist
- 2 x combimelta
- 2 x combiplasma
- 1 x Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 190


***************  5 Troops ***************

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melta
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Combimelta
   - Power Fist
+ Rhino
 - - - > 210

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Plasma Gun
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Combiplasma
   - Power Sword
   - Meltabombs
+ Rhino
 - - - > 210

8 Khorne Berzerkers
+ Skull Champ
   - Power Fist
   - Personal Icon
 - - - > 213

5 Summoned Demons
 - - - > 65

5 Summoned Demons
 - - - > 65

***************  1 Fast Attack ***************

6 Raptors
- 2 x Flamers
+ Aspiring Champion
   - pair of Power Claws
 - - - > 170


***************  3 Heavy Support  ***************

Defiler
- Battlecannon
- DCCW
- DCCW
 - - - > 150

Chaos Land Raider
- Demonic Engine
 - - - > 240

5 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Plasma Guns
+ Rhino
 - - - > 170


Total: 1998
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 27, 2010, 03:11:55 PM
Personally nowadays I would never go Warptime with my Prince, as it makes you reroll hits too (as far as I recall).

Also, some may remember (doubtful) that I once said I can't paint tanks. I tried doing a rhino for my Death Guard (so all nurgly) and here is the dubious result:

(http://j.imagehost.org/0181/nurglerhino.png)

It's fortunate I chose nurgle, it lets me be messy.  :evil:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 27, 2010, 03:23:37 PM
I don't think that looks bad at all!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 27, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
Nah, I think it looks quite good! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::

In fact, since my magnifying light is out of commission at this point, I might try painting some of my Ork vehicles.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 27, 2010, 09:56:57 PM
Looks smashing! You should see my tanks before you claim you canīt paint! I would be darn proud to have your level of skill.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 28, 2010, 02:40:35 PM
It looks very nice!

I have no idea how i will paint my leman russes.

Tell us how your tournament goes, Aldaris


I tried the Blood angels yesterday. They are nice, but the sanguinary guard isnt that awesome, actually a little meh .
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 28, 2010, 03:00:08 PM
tbh reading the codex Im not sure why you wouldn't just go for regular assault marines, 10 assault marines cost the same as 5 sanguinary guards, you can stick a sanguinary priest in them and get feel no pain, you actually get an extra 10 attacks as the sanguinary guard powerweapons are two handed.

AND the assault guys would be scoring.

this all from a guy who doesn't have a good idea of the game either  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 28, 2010, 03:29:17 PM
I know!
I thought the same thing when i saw them die. But well. I ordered the models, as i love them. But you are right Bies.

With Dante they are scoring though.
Their positive side is that they have powerweapons. Thats neat. And for 30 pts extra they get another attack. 4 power weapon attacks on the charge. Thats nice, but still Initiative 4 and ws4, and s4..Sucks
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 28, 2010, 11:50:50 PM
Nice Rhino, MrDwhitey!

And why would the ability to re-roll hits be bad? I am confused. That ability is awesome. Reroll to hit, reroll to wound. And that reroll to wound works for Wind of Chaos as well as close combat. And you can do it in your turn and your opponents!

but anyway, now for the
TOURNAMENT REPORT!
 :::cheers:::
I am back from the tournament, and very tired. Heaps of fun, but 5 2000 points games in 2 days are pretty exhausting mentally.

Each game 4000 points could be made, 2000 for the enemy army (with the system for 4th edition that's basically identical to WH Fantasy), 2000 for the mission. In Capure and Control there was one objective per player worth 1000 points each, in Take and Hold 5 objectives worth 400 points each, and in Killpoints 400 points per KP you had more than your opponent, up to a maximum of 5. In the last two games one also rolled for a secret "special mission" of varying degrees of difficulty that were worth 1000 points if achieved.

Game one:
I drew Space Marines, a Vulcan list. 2 5-man Terminator squads, one normal, one assault with cyclone launcher. One with Vulcan attached, the other had an Epistolary with that teleport power and the one that raises his initiative to 10. 2 10-Man Tac squads with missile/flamer and powersword divided into combat squads, the sarge/flamer element riding a standard Razorback. One Tac squad with melta/multimelta in a Rhino, LS Storm with cc scouts/fist. Then one more LS with multimelta and 2 Vindicators.
Mission was Capture and Control, deployment Pitched Battle.
I won a solid victory, holding my objective and contesting his as well as killing a good portion of his army.

Game two:
Eldar this time. An apparently pretty soft list that did surprisingly well in the tournament. He placed 4th overall. He had a kitted-out Farseer, a Dark Reaper squad with Maugan Ra, 2 Phantom Lords, 2 Scout teams with 8 each, 2 Guardian squads with a lance each and 2 squads of Dire Avengers in Falcons.
Mission was Take and Hold, deployment Dawn of War.
I completely wiped him off the table and got three objectives, netting me a nice 3200 point win.

Game three:
Demons. I have a friendly rivalry with this player, because he won the last tournament sky-high and I was the only one to beat him. He had (as best as I can remember, I don't know Demons too well): A Bloodthirster with stuff, a Demon Prince on foot with stuff, 2 units of Horrors with a changeling each and one of those S8 shooting attacks, some Flamers, 3 units of Bloodletters (one with Skulltaker), three Bloodcrushers with different kit each, 2 Soulgrinders and a unit of Plague bearers. I think that was it? Not sure.
Mission was Killpoints, deployment was Spearhead.
I lost by three, although it was pretty tight. I had both the Demon Prince and the Bloodthirster down to one HP each and reduced one unit of Bloodletters to one, another to two models. But the game was over, and had it continued I am sure he would have made more kills as well, so the finish was okay. Still made about 1000 points for my kills to his army though. Next tournament I'll get him again!
 :-D

That was the end of day one, and on sunday the final two games were played. This time the time was slightly longer (3 1/2 hours instead of three per game) and the "secret missions" I mentioned earlier came into effect.

Game four: a pretty nasty Ork list. He had a big mob of 8 Boss Bikers with maxed wound groups, with his Waaaghboss on a bike attached. 2 Battle Wagons (are those the ones with AV14 front, open-topped?) with about a dozen lootas in each one. Those were side by side, with a Mek with Kustom Force Field in one giving them a cover save. Those guys pump out about 40-60 shots S7 with good range each round... and those tanks are not easy to shake with AV14 and the Force Field. This castle was surrounded by a moat of Grot mobs (I think he had 4 total) as melee cover. Three Killa Kans in a squadron, two Squadrons of 2 Buggys each (one with sync Bazookas and one with Burnas) and a Big Mob of Shootaboys (with the obligatory Powerclaw Boss) completed the list.
Phew!
During the night two sunday I thought long and hard how to tackle this monster, and concluded that I needed to get rid of the Bikers ASAP, no matter how and then go for the tanks, possibly with DSing Terminators and a close-range melta barrage.
Mission was Killpoints, deployment was Pitched Battle. And he went first... the secret mission I rolled was to clear his deployment zone of all enemies and have at least one of my units in there. Fat chance...
the game turned out to be an absurdly brutal massacre. My Demon Prince murdered, with lots of assistance, the Boss Bikers and the Waaaghboss, and on his own the squad of Killa Kans, one of the Battle Wagons and a Grot mob (not that the last one was much of an achievement, but hey). He was my star. At the end he had a bit more than 200 points remaining, I had about 470 left and was leading in Killpoints 12-11.
Huzzaaah! A WIN! I was pretty proud and grinning from ear to ear.

Until the pairings for match 5 were announced. Oh dear... I got the IG guy. He had completely wiped all of his previous opponents and was leading by a huge margin. Great... He had tons and tons of Infantry (I don't know, 160-180 men), I guess about a dozen Autocannons or more, 5 Lascannons, 2 mortar teams, 2 CCS in Chimeras, one Veteran Squad in a Chimera, a Medusa with Bastion Breaker shells, 1 'nilla Russ and a Demolisher. A huge solid wall of men with absolutely staggering firepower that pretty much filled his deployment zone.
I was so not looking forward to this... but whimpering piteously about my evil fate wouldn't help, so I decided on a plan. The mission was Capture and Control (so one objective each), deployment was Spearhead. My special mission was to keep my deployment zone clear of all enemies. Suited me fine. There was lots of terrain on the table, with a big ridge with a trench in it that ran along the long middle line.
There was no way in hell I would make it across to him with sufficient forces left to do anything meaningful, so I decided on total defense and denial.
I deployed my tanks in a wall, positioned the little long-range stuff I had so I could shoot and got every infantry mans ass either into a tank or out of line-of-sight behind something. And thus the most boring game of the weekend began.
He just sat there and shot, content to sit on his objective and unwilling to risk an attack (my marines were pretty much untouched behind a wall of destroyed Rhinos), and so I just put my guys faces into the dirt and waited for the bang-bang to end since I couldn't get to him without being shot to pieces. I deepstruck my Terminators and my Raptors and ran my Dreadnought over to do at least some damage and otherwise just shot with my Landraider at his Medusa (until I ate a Bastion Breaker) and with my Defiler at his Infantry and  Chimeras (until it finally ate enought Lascannon and Autocannon ammo to assplode).
But the thing was: I got a draw. Held my objective, got 1000 points extra for keeping my deployment zone clean and some 300 or so points for those few kills I managed. so I still walked away with 2300 points, bored but content to have avoided the fate of my predecessors.

That was the final game. So I had three wins, one draw and one loss, placing 5th overall in a field of 16. Not too bad, I am pretty content.
And for the record: I like my new list. It works pretty harmoniously together. But masses with mass firepower, that is my doom. Can't cope with that.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on March 29, 2010, 12:44:14 AM
dude.

Congrats man! great report, really enjoyed reading it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 29, 2010, 12:18:55 PM
Great stuff Aldaris!  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 29, 2010, 01:21:58 PM
Congrats on your finish, interesting battle reports, thanks for taking the time to share. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 29, 2010, 01:26:12 PM
Thanks guys, I was still so hyped up on 40k when I got home last night that a short "I'm back, was fun" post evolved into this...
 :-D

What I liked about this tournament is that most players actually brought pretty moderate lists, the way I like it. I am not sure I would care to play in a "take double Lash and 9 Oblits plus Plague Marine core or you're an idiot" kind of environment.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 29, 2010, 01:47:29 PM
Good stuff!

I actually read that battle report through, i rarely do that!
Congratz on the 5th place too.
I have no idea how one should handle that IG list. But i am also amazed how he could fit all that in there :O
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 29, 2010, 02:05:12 PM
It does work. I don't remember exactly what he had, but 5 minutes with an AB made me the following:


***************  2 HQ  *************** 

Company Command Squad
- Company Commander
- 1 x Veteran with Regimental standard
- 2 x Veteran with Meltagun
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 140

Company Command Squad
- Company Commander
- 2 x Veteran with Meltagun
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 125


***************  4  Troops *************** 

Infantry Platoon
   + Command Squad
      - Platoon Commander
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Heavy Weapons Squad
      - 3 x Mortar team
   + Heavy Weapons Squad
      - 3 x Mortar team
 - - - > 450

Infantry Platoon
   + Command Squad
      - Platoon Commander
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Heavy Weapons Squad
      - 3 x Autocannon team
 - - - > 455

Infantry Platoon
   + Command Squad
      - Platoon Commander
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Infantry Squad
      - Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
      - Upgrade to Sergeant
   + Heavy Weapons Squad
      - 3 x Autocannon team
 - - - > 225

Veteran Squad
- 3 x Veteran with Meltagun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 155


***************  3 Heavy Support *************** 

Leman Russ Squadron
   + - Leman Russ Battle Tank
      - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 150

Leman Russ Squadron
   + - Leman Russ Demolisher
      - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 165

Ordnance Battery
   + - Medusa
      - Heavy bolter
      - Bastion-breacher shells
 - - - > 140


Imperial Guard : 2005

That's about 170 guardsmen, 11 autocannons, 5 lascannons and 7 meltas, plus plenty of HB, Multilasers and Ordnance.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 29, 2010, 02:19:03 PM
As to how to handle it, an IG list with three squadrons of three 'Russ should handle it well. 9 pie plates per turn plus pretty large infantry screen (should still have the points for 70-80 Infantry with 3 Autocannons and 3 Lascannons plus some Mortars) should be able to deal with those masses I guess.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 29, 2010, 03:43:02 PM
That army seems more appropriate for Apoc games.  That list being at 2,000 points is quite a bit of stuff for a regular 40K game.  I've done some games in the 1,000 to 1,500 point range, but everything else I have thrown in is usually saved for the Apoc games I like joining.  Yet I've seen quite a few tournies venture into the 1750 to 1850 level.

Is there a trend where folks are starting to see 2K and larger point total games with 40K?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 29, 2010, 04:05:23 PM
After playing some Dawn of War 2, I really want to play a vanilla marines army. With no rhinos, only razorbacks!

Or maybe orks.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 29, 2010, 04:15:48 PM
Holy cow!!! :O

Thats a lot of guardsmen! :O

Did he combine squads ?

And yes pie plates are the solution. But damn thats alot ! Well done on keeping them at "bay" (even though he didnt go offensive). That might have done him well to attack you. He would have overwhelmed your marines totally :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 29, 2010, 04:20:35 PM
Indeed, that is one huge army!

As for 2000 point becoming a new higher limit for normal 40K, well, I think I see that number more and more in WD and see lists like that appear on many places, so yes, I do belive that might be the case.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 29, 2010, 05:07:07 PM
And yes pie plates are the solution. But damn thats alot ! Well done on keeping them at "bay" (even though he didnt go offensive). That might have done him well to attack you. He would have overwhelmed your marines totally :P
With a high propability, yes. But Terrain and Rhino wrecks would have neccessitated coming up real close to even see my guys, allowing me to assault and giving me a small chance. Khorne Berzerkers alone can wipe out 3+ squads of Guardsmen easily on the charge if they get that many into contact. The course he took was just the totally safe one, as he had already wiped out 4 opponents and was content with the points he got through this route.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 29, 2010, 05:26:19 PM
Sounds boring... the other option would have been much more epic  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 29, 2010, 05:56:07 PM
Sounds boring...
Yep. As I already noted in the report.
 :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 29, 2010, 05:57:18 PM
I know! As i said, i actually read this one xD
I might play a 2k game tonight. But standard games in Southern Denmark is 1500 :)

I think the national tournaments also are 1500pts
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 29, 2010, 10:12:29 PM
I like to play 1750, but prefer 2000 points. That has room for some of the cool options that are just not cost-effective at lower points and can still be comfortably played in 3 hours.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on March 30, 2010, 11:08:43 AM
There was an incident and I accidently bought a combat squad of space marines. Time for yellow marines!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on March 30, 2010, 11:22:16 AM
I wonder why they don't sell full squads of 'beaky' marines anymore. They look better than the grinning ones.

I want that new predator tank that is all flame-throwers. It's the perfect combination of the best-looking tank and the best type of weapon.


There was an incident and I accidently bought a combat squad of space marines. Time for yellow marines!

Call them the Wombatsquids!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 11:25:55 AM
Call them the Wombatsquids!
Ah, the famous descendants of Primarch Sparkfirus.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on March 30, 2010, 11:34:45 AM
They kind of do sell beakies. Red Scorpians look quite cool. I was looking at them last night. They are Ģ16 for half the bits you need to make an entire unit though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 30, 2010, 11:58:46 AM
I say you should go forth and do the most illustrious yellow marines.
The Angry Marines.  :engel:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/211252.page

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on March 30, 2010, 12:30:09 PM
They kind of do sell beakies. Red Scorpians look quite cool. I was looking at them last night. They are Ģ16 for half the bits you need to make an entire unit though.

I can't find that on the GW site.

It looks like you get two beaky hats in a tactical squad (and also two in that strange 'combat squad' box that has only five models but somehow costs more than half of what the tactical squad costs). Is that right?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 12:33:33 PM
You might want to take a look at Forgeworld, the Red Scorpions is their chapter as far as I know.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on March 30, 2010, 01:44:58 PM
Oh, Forgeworld. I don't like resin models.


Can blood angels use the scout clown-car speeder?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
Yep.

The speeder itself that is. Not the Storm variant, which carries scouts.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on March 30, 2010, 02:35:50 PM
No clown-car? So there's no way to have both a clown-car and a flame-throwing predator tank?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 30, 2010, 02:40:48 PM
They have flying landraiders with slightly less armour.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 03:03:05 PM
No clown-car? So there's no way to have both a clown-car and a flame-throwing predator tank?
What is the clown car? The Landspeeder or the specific variant (Storm) thereof? They have the first, they don't have the second.

They have flying landraiders with slightly less armour.  :engel:

*sigh* if only it were slightly less... but an AV12 skimmer for 200 points upwards? Teehee... nice concept, but totally overcosted. It isn't like the BA are short on fast delivery systems...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 30, 2010, 03:24:09 PM
I would prefer taking a landraider over the storm raven. Sure the storm raven can really stock up on weapons, but its very vulnerable to lascannon fire!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 03:35:23 PM
Lascannon fire? it is vulnerable to a freaking multilaser! That's the problem with that thing.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 30, 2010, 04:01:59 PM
Aldaris is clearly a powergamer who wants his vehicles to be immune to everything.  :icon_rolleyes:

I like the stormraven because it flies. That's about it.

I still need to make up the apocalypse rules for a floating fortress for my nurgle guys.

I really like flying things. Not small ones though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 04:14:47 PM
Sarcasm aside: If I put 200+ points into one model (never mind the stuff inside), it better have at least a chance to survive enemy attention. Unfortunately, this thing can be brought down by absolutely any heavy weapon that is bigger than a Heavy Bolter. And costs a Heavy Support slot. That makes it bad.

A Vendetta has better firepower, same speed, same armor, transport capacity is slightly less but costs only 130 points and can be bought in squadrons. And it fills a unique role in the army nothing else can do remotely as well. That makes it good.

I really, really wanted to like the thing. But I can honestly see no role it could conceivably fulfill that can't be done by stuff that costs half as much or far less (like Droppods for precision insertion, fast transports, deepstriking Landraiders which have a comparable cost but will actually stand a chance to survive and have superior firepower as well). For the pure fast antitank the Stormraven can offer I could get a trio of attack bikes with multimeltas for roughly half or some Landspeeders, all of which do the same job.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 30, 2010, 04:17:17 PM
From what I've seen, I fully agree. I just really love flying things.  :-(
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 30, 2010, 04:20:58 PM
Yes you are right aldaris. But it is still awesome. But too vulnerable that i want to put my expensive stuff inside so they die. I rather want a landraider then.

But it is cool! but... arh..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 30, 2010, 04:44:24 PM
If it had an awesome model, I'd propably get it for cool factor alone. But going to the trouble to convert something up I'll propably never use? I ain't Steveb...
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 30, 2010, 06:01:39 PM
Oh, Forgeworld. I don't like resin models.
I was going to point out that the upcoming releases of "Raven Guard" from Forgeworld have beak helmets, but I don't know if they are "resin" or not.

I'm curious as to what is it you don't like about resin models?  I don't have any experience with them, but your view point could be helpful?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 30, 2010, 06:33:13 PM
I support MrDWhitey. I love awesome flying things, even if they are crap. Hence why I am dreaming about more Deffkoptaz...

You should get a shot of the green stuff into you, Aldaris, learn that there are more awesome things than being competitive. Like big red flying things driving awfully fast and making spectacular booms in the air when a Hydra draws a bead on it!  :icon_mrgreen:

Now, I wish the orks had some awesome flying model like the lucky bastards known as Guards and Blood Angels.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 30, 2010, 06:48:42 PM
Kitbash either, and you'll have an awesome ork flying model. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 30, 2010, 08:55:05 PM
Someone made a Stormraven:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286057.page

It's ok.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on March 31, 2010, 10:55:35 AM
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 31, 2010, 11:55:17 AM
You should get a shot of the green stuff into you, Aldaris, learn that there are more awesome things than being competitive.
...yeah... Orcs, the underdogs of 40K...

Maybe, but I like to build lists that can compete. That doesn't mean I take the standard stuff, hell, the CSM list I took to the tournament had 4 choices in it every 40K forum would tell you are utter crap. But they work well in a certain context. The Stormraven on the other hand just hampers your overall list without bringing anything new. BA choices are expensive enough, no sense in further shrinking your list down to fit in one.
Kudos to anyone who plays the thing anyway, but I certainly won't.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Heinrich von Kampfmann on March 31, 2010, 03:47:36 PM
Guys I need some help. I'm planning on building a Guard army but I don't want to paint a lot of guardsmen and I came with this list. The idea is to have a fast and "elite" army  with 2 veteranssquads in chimeras and 2 other veterans in the valks. I'm not sure on the upgrades for the squads so any advice is good since I'm new to 40k  :blush:

HQ:
Company Command squad
Company Commander: Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol

Medipack
Krak Grenades
Carapace armour
Vox-caster 
               135   
Chimera            
Extra Armour 15, Dozer Blades , Heavy Stubber
               90
               

Troops:
101 1st. Veteran Squad   
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun 
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
               160
Chimera           
Extra Armour, Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
               90
            

101 2nd. Veteran Squad     
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster,  Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun 
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)               
               160
Chimera               
Extra Armour, Dozer Blades , Heavy Stubber
                90
               

101 3nd. Veteran Squad     
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster,  Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun 
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
                   160




               
101 4nd. Veteran Squad     
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster,  Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun 
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
                   160

Fast Support
Valkyrie Assault Carrier   
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters

               155

Valkyrie Assault Carrier   
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters

               155


Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ   
Heavy Flamer
Sponsons with Heavy Bolter
Extra armour

               185
 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Castozor on March 31, 2010, 03:48:02 PM
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
While I don't think the loyalist and traitors should switch sides, I do think the traitors have the better fluff. You just have to love the Death Guard for instance. And the Iron Warriors are also pretty cool. Not that the loyalist don't have any amazing legions. I really like the White Scars, Mongols in space FTW!  :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 31, 2010, 04:55:33 PM
Guys I need some help. I'm planning on building a Guard army but I don't want to paint a lot of guardsmen and I came with this list. The idea is to have a fast and "elite" army  with 2 veteranssquads in chimeras and 2 other veterans in the valks. I'm not sure on the upgrades for the squads so any advice is good since I'm new to 40k  :blush:
OK, let's start at the beginning. Ditch all that non-shooty stuff on the command squad. Those are supposed to sit in their comfy Chimera, give orders and use their BS of 4. No powerweapons, no Medics, no carapace. You just invest tons of points for close-combat equipment on guys who are frankly lousy fighters. But they are rather good shots! So give them 3 meltaguns or 3 plasmaguns to use that. The Chimera should mount a heavy flamer instead of the standard HB, costs are the same but when something gets close it is much deadlier. Dozerblade... OK. The stubber? Ok... I guess. Extra armor? Not worth it. Out it goes!

Then, your troops. Let me reiterate some basics when kitting Guard Infantry. They need to specialize, they need to be good at killing one type of target and focus on that.
First: loose the Powerswords on the Sgts. They are lousy fighters. They will lose combat against pretty much anyone, and the Powersword will not change that. They will just lose more expensively. Lose the heavy flamers in the squads with plasma guns. Focus your squads. If you want a squad good at killing heavy/elite infantry or monsters, take three plasma guns, and maybe throw in the pistol for the sarge.
If you want a flamer squad good at killing lots of lightly armored enemies, go all out on that. Heavy flamer and two flamers, or just three flamers. No plasma gun for the sarge, at best he'll kill one lousy light infantryman with his large and expensive gun, at worst he'll just fry himself with an overheat. Flamer on their Chimera as well.
If you want a squad good at killing armor and expensive elite infantry, get meltas. Three of them.
As I said: focus.

With those guidelines in mind, you should be able to do something about your list. And if you feel like doing some extensive reading on a pretty good Guard tactica, Go there:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212569 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212569)
The big Tactica Imperium sign there is a downloadlink. You'll find a document of well over a hundred pages of Guard tactics and unit choices. Check it out!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 31, 2010, 04:56:19 PM
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
I beginning to think that what they done to the fluff actually adds to its strength and allows folks the flexibility to create what they'd like.  I'm actually quite stunned by the beaty of 40K background.  I recall PhillyT mentionning how much he liked, and now thta I've started to read it, I'm beginning to understand why.

In a way, both the SM and the CSM have their good sides and bad.  If you want to be a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, you can pick either type of army and you could find reasons for both. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 31, 2010, 05:01:35 PM
The 40K fluff beats the fantasy fluff by a mile in my opinion, but I like both settings.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on March 31, 2010, 05:06:58 PM
Not that I want to take this on a tangent, but I'm wondering if there is better fluff in the WFRPing than in WFB?

And if they are about the same, than perhaps because WFB stems from WFRPing, more leeway has been worked inot the system for folks to create whatever they want, where as with 40K, the background was given more consideration to create the miniature game, rather than a role playing game?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 31, 2010, 05:31:56 PM
I have found some nice alternative minis to use in my guards army. Well, I shall see how many I can get, but they match the Cadians in size very well.
Enter Black Tree designs german Fallschirmsjaegers!
http://www.gamemaniacs.se/products/products_show_image.asp?imageName=WW2195.jpg%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&productName=FALLSCHIRMJAEGER+WITH+MG34%3As+%282%2B8%29

The Kar98 and MP40:s will not work, but if they just had the possibility to buy a bucketload of guys firing MG34 or MG42 from the hip you have dudes with potential.

However, I find these fellows with Sturmgewehr 44 pretty much looking the part as an alternative type of Stormtroopers, or as Veterans with the Grenadier skill.

http://www.gamemaniacs.se/products/products_show_image.asp?imageName=WW2155.jpg%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&productName=FALLSHIRMJAEGERS+WITH+MP44%3As+1+%288+figurer+per+f%F6rpackning%29

If you want to, make the lower part of a coat to hide the special Fallschirmsjaeger battledress and you got something looking very much like a Steel legion trooper. They got the same helmet after all!
Also, some converting to put meltas or plasmas in their hands and they are ready to kick ass!

Most of all, I can get 8 of these fellows for about 5 Euros! Would make my Guard army a true mixed feel, as if it is a force being put together for a specific task, or a Composite regiment made up of remants from several formations.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on March 31, 2010, 05:43:57 PM
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
I beginning to think that what they done to the fluff actually adds to its strength and allows folks the flexibility to create what they'd like.  I'm actually quite stunned by the beaty of 40K background.  I recall PhillyT mentionning how much he liked, and now thta I've started to read it, I'm beginning to understand why.

In a way, both the SM and the CSM have their good sides and bad.  If you want to be a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, you can pick either type of army and you could find reasons for both. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::

I used to really like the 40k background. Then they started writing books about the Primarches and they went from being figures that you could interpret how you liked into boringness.

For example I've allways seen Magnus the Red as an unfortunate hero. If the Emperor had just listened to the message they would have been far more prepared and the whole Istivan thing wouldn't have happened. But since he was rejected and attacked he was forced to turn traitor. Apparently the new books talk about how he had to use human sacrifce and all this chaos bullshit to do the message. Which completely ruins the image I have of him. The original vague fluff made for much more interesting reading than the specific stuff they pump out now. God only knows what they have done to Fulgrim. His fluff was allways a bit rubbish to start with. An awesome character who just accepts he needs to rebel because Horus is his chum? Oh ok.

...It really annoys me the whole Primarch thing. All the loyalist ones suck ass and all the cool ones get turned into generic characters. The angry one is Khorne etc. Especially since Mortiation has pretty much no link to Nurgle before they just shove one in.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 31, 2010, 05:46:32 PM
I agree. But the wonderful thing is that I don't read those novels and can therefore just keep the awesome image I have of Magnus.

Oh, and not all the loyalist ones suck ass. Sanguinius I like.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 31, 2010, 05:55:42 PM
Sounds like I better avoid those Heresy novels like the plague then.  :icon_sad:

I was planning on getting the one that dealt with the Alpha legion, but maybe I should avoid that one and allow my partially unruined idea of the Primarchs remain.

But what do you think of my idea about them Fallschirmsjaegers? :unsure:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Heinrich von Kampfmann on March 31, 2010, 06:30:26 PM
Sorry if I bother you again but I made some changes to the armylist I posted before. I took the advices and here I present a more specialized "Blitzkrieg" army  for 1409pts :engel:


HQ:
Company Command squad
Company Commander: Melta Bombs

Krak Grenades
Vox-caster
               125   
Chimera             
Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
               75
               200
Troops:
101 1st. Veteran Squad     
Sgt. Bolt pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, 2 flamer
Grenadiers  (4+ save)
               132
Chimera            
Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
               75
            207

101 2nd. Veteran Squad     
Sgt. Bolt pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, 2 flamer
Grenadiers  (4+ save)
               132
Chimera              
Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
               75
               207

101 3st. Veteran Squad   
Vox-caster , Plasma Guns * 3 
Grenadiers  (4+ save)
               150


               
101 4nd. Veteran Squad     
Vox-caster, Vox-caster, Plasma Guns * 3
Grenadiers  (4+ save)
               150


Fast Support
Valkyrie Assault Carrier   100
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters

               155

Valkyrie Assault Carrier   100
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters

               155




Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ   
Heavy Flamer
Sponsons with Heavy Bolter
Extra armour

               185

One thing that I thought about was to MAYBE give shotguns to the veteran squads with flamers. Think how awesome it would be to see these guys shooting at the enemy with 3 flamers and fire 12 shots with the shotguns and then assault a unit in the next phase ^^ But, lasguns might be better and forge worlds shotguns are a little expansive to buy so the lasgun seems better :p I also try to stay away from metalfigures as it seems my skin gets irritated  by it  :icon_frown:








EDIT: Removed pointcosts for upgrades ^^
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 31, 2010, 06:46:57 PM
Much better! Still way too many toys though. Grenadiers is a footlsogger doctrine mostly, your vets don't even need to disembark to use their flamers ( 5 firing ports on the Chimera for the win!). If you lose Grenadiers, you'll free up 120 points. Lose extra armor on the Russ: another 15. Gives you 135 points so far. Melta bombs and Krak Grenades on the CCS: another 10. Lose the voxes on the squads in the Valks (they'll be most likely out of order range anyway): another 10. That's 155 points. Voila! You have just aquired the points for another full veteran squad with three melta guns in a Chimera, which you will need since you're awfully light on antitank right now.

I would also give the command squad some nice, juicy guns. Meltas preferably.
This would give you 4 chimeras on the ground. One holds the CCS, which can also bust tanks very well with meltas. One holds a squad of melta vets for the same job. Both can also take out other high-value targets (like Dreadnoughts, Terminators or Monsters). 2 Flamer units to clear up hordes and stuff in cover. Coupled with the firepower of the chimeras, this is pretty good.
Your Valk element looks good. If you take another Vet squad with meltas I would consider swapping places with one of the valk squads though. That would give you both a melta and plasma squad in Valks as well as on the ground.

Good luck with your IG!
 :::cheers:::

Oh, another thing: don't use metal figures for your melta and plasma guys. That will cost a fortune. Instead, order some plasma and melta guns from the bitz service of your choice or from GW direct. You can use the GL arms for a very easy conversion. Just cut the GL off the hand holding it, cut off the handle of the plasma/melta gun and glue it on instead. The other hand of that set of arms holds a handle that you can just attach to the side of the new gun. Voila! Plasma/Melta vet!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 31, 2010, 06:51:09 PM
Looks very promising!

points of critic:

Your company command. Dump the krak grenades and melta bomb and give them a melta gun.

Your valkyries (which i dont like much) are going to be moving alot so probably wont be able to shoot its heavy bolter sponsons, even though they are cool! Dump those two and use the points for meltas in your company command.

I always give my veterans shotguns if their special weapons are assault. Just so they complement each other. I rather want to assault those orks than be assaulted in the next phase!

Also!
Remember that you can't give orders to units inside chimeras. So vox casters wont matter that much in your squads.
I never give extra stuff to my chimeras. Dozer blades are expensive so only take them if you play on a terrain heavy board. I know its vital to keep your troops mobile so it might be a good addition to it!
But the stubbers. I would see them go. As i said, you have to be mobile and I dont know how it will work together with the stubbers.

Dno what you could spent the points on. I get it to be 55pts for 3 stubbers and 5 vox casters. Thats enough to get a chimera to the 3rd or 4th squad.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 31, 2010, 06:51:37 PM
Ah Aldaris beat me to it :P


Oh and Mathi, no offense, but if you keep using alternatives it will be a hell for anybody but yourself to know what units are what.. find some good deals on ebay or swedish sites for some good 40k deals instead ;)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 31, 2010, 07:01:00 PM
Hmm... fact is I already ordered 5 plasma guns from a site also selling the GW bitz.
Thing is I got 6 fallschirmsjaeger gun crews when I bought a pair of light field guns to use as Kannonz for my 40K orkz.
However, I figure they would be put to good use as crew for a squad of IG mortars and then it will not be problem to see what they represent.

Now, I better get a box of Cadians. Plasma grenadier vets FTW!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 31, 2010, 07:06:16 PM
See if you can find someplace that still sells the old 20-man box rather than the repackaged 10-man one. Much better value.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 31, 2010, 07:08:23 PM
Really, it's ok to use alternatives, but if you're going to use non-40k one, it's probably best for all concerned that you stick to one range for it all. So all guardsmen would be modified fallschirmjager, for example.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 01, 2010, 05:34:39 PM
So, I had my first game ever against Tau today. The guy wanted to test a 1850 tournament army and asked me to use my CSM again. I obliged, and just used my 2000 list I had used for the tournament last weekend, minus the two squads of summoned Demons and just 5 instead of 6 Raptors (bringing it down to 1850).
He had three Crisis teams with his commander in one of them (all with plenty of shield drones), one unit of 3 Broadsides (two shield drones as well), 3 of those skimmer transports with Fire Warriors inside, one unit of stealth suits with that melta thingy, one Hammerhead and 2 units of 10 Kroot 5 Kroot hounds each. The board was stacked for an urban fight, We played seize ground with 5 objectives and deployed pitched battle style. He won first turn.

And then I stole the initiative. That sucked hard for him.

Rushed all my stuff forward and used smoke launchers, managed to weather the initial storm of shooting pretty well thanks to the smoke and had the first close combats going by turn 2. By the end of my turn 4 the board was clean of all alien bovines. Wipeout. Ouch!

Learned: everyone in the CSM list can completely bitchslap everyone in the Tau army. Their shooting is nice, but the stuff that is actually AP3 or lower is scarce. They have plenty of ways to deal with transports, but once you get within charge range they're toast.
Oh well, it was an experience. That was the final 40k army I had never played against.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 01, 2010, 06:14:02 PM
Tau are silly.

Anyway, with a renewed interest in 40k, I made a undivided sorcerer to be a sort of "Pal" with my Nurgle Lord (not yet made).

(http://j.imagehost.org/t/0205/sorc1.jpg) (http://j.imagehost.org/view/0205/sorc1)

(http://j.imagehost.org/t/0854/sorc2.jpg) (http://j.imagehost.org/view/0854/sorc2)

Yes, it's a wineglass (it'll look better painted, honest), a pimp cane, and a raven wearing a hat with a feather in it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 01, 2010, 06:50:42 PM
Cool! Looking forward to see it painted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 02, 2010, 01:35:42 AM
Those pictures are kind of small, and when I clicked on one, it had a rapidly flashing piece of spam on it.  Not sure I'll be clicking on one of those small pictures again, cause I don't want my computer to be fried like green nurgle tomatoes.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 02, 2010, 06:03:33 AM
I clicked on both for you GP, and they work fine for me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 02, 2010, 11:06:57 PM
Painted the sorc and his 3 pet obliterator bodyguards. Only pictured two as the third was more of the same.  :unsure:

http://img338.imageshack.us/g/sorcandobli1.jpg/

Imageshack so GP has no need to fear.  :engel:

Very hastily done these, need to be ready for this weekend!

The idea is that the 3 Obliterators sorta obey the sorcerer, and thus the Nurgle lord (I have plans for him, beeeeeeeeg plans) allied with him in part for his sorcerous power, and in part for the power of the obliterator cult.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 02, 2010, 11:33:29 PM
Great, great work!
 :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 02, 2010, 11:34:54 PM
Ta.  :icon_biggrin:

He also allows a link from my Chaos Marines to a non-nurgle traitor Imperial Guard force I have planned. Russian themed (just need to check 1/35 scale with 40k models).  :icon_biggrin:

I also need to see how well a 1/48 HIND will go with 1/35 BMDs and T-variousnumbers. As it's a flier I think I can get some slack with differences, and the only 1/35 HIND is sold by one company, for a bloody lot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 03, 2010, 12:04:02 AM
Just say no to GW novels.

Period.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 03, 2010, 12:58:42 AM
Please elaborate, that sounds interesting.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on April 03, 2010, 04:06:57 AM
I approve of PhillyT's message.

You know how meth addicts feel great when they're using meth, but when you look at them they have no teeth and look 20 years older than they really are? That's your brain, after using GW novels.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 03, 2010, 10:57:07 AM
The novels are generally garbage.  Most of the good fluff is found in the rule books or WD articles.  The rare decent novel is buried beneath piles of crap as authors write what they think people want to read.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 03, 2010, 11:00:00 AM
Hmmm ... I read the first three Heresy novels and they weren't bad.  The first was the best of the three followed by the third, and then the second.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 03, 2010, 11:39:05 AM
In my opinion, the only good novels are the Gotrek and Felix ones by William King, and most stuff for 40k by Dan Abnett (one of their few authors who can actually write worth a damn). I've tried some others, but they all were somewhere between very average to downright painful.

I find the three Eisenhorn books to be worth a hearty recommendation, and the Gaunts Ghosts series is a pleasant read too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 03, 2010, 12:24:07 PM
Abnett wrote the first Heresy novel, and it sucks you right in.  Definitely a author I'll be returning to read again.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 03, 2010, 03:29:08 PM
Hey guys, been toying around with some BA lists out of idle fun and curiosity.
What do you think of the following? 4 Vehicles with AV 13 front deploy turn 1 (Furiosos, regular Preds) with the Rhinos and Astoraths squad taking cover behind. Astoraths lad also benefit from FNP thanks to the adjacent Rhinos.
Everything is fast or can jump, and by turn 2-3 when the army is engaged the Baals arrive from outflank and add their firepower. Every Infantry model has very likely furious charge, FNP and in case of Astoraths squad, reroll to hit.

***************  1 HQ  *************** 

Astaroth the Grim
 - - - > 220


***************  3 Elite  *************** 

Sanguinary Priest
- Power Weapon
 - - - > 65

Sanguinary Priest
- Power Weapon
 - - - > 65

Furioso Dreadnought
- Upgrade to Furioso-Scriptor
- Bloodfist & Force Weapon
- Stormbolter
- Magna-Grapple
- Additional Armor
 - - - > 205

Furioso Dreadnought
- Upgrade to Furioso-Scriptor
- Bloodfist & Force Weapon
- Stormbolter
- Magna-Grapple
- Additional Armor
 - - - > 205


***************  3 Troops *************** 

Assault Squad, no packs (joined by Priest)
9 Assault Marines
- 1 x Flamer
- 1 x Powerfist on the Sarge
+ - Rhino
   - Dozerblade
 - - - > 222

Assault Squad, no packs (joined by Priest)
9 Assault Marines
- 1 x Flamer
- 1 x Powerfist on the Sarge
+ - Rhino
   - Dozerblade
 - - - > 222

Assault Marines, joined by Astorath
10 Assault Marines
- 2 x Melter
- Jump Packs
- 1 x Powerfist on the Sarge
 - - - > 235


***************  2 Fast Attack *************** 

Baal-Pradator
- Sync Assault Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons
 - - - > 145

Baal-Pradator
- Sync Assault Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons
 - - - > 145


***************  2 Heavy Support *************** 

Predator
- Autocannon
- Lascannon Sponsons
 - - - > 135

Predator
- Autocannon
- Lascannon Sponsons
 - - - > 135

Blood Angels : 1999
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 03, 2010, 03:37:34 PM
Dan Abnett is a writer. Most of the crowd that writes for GW are just pen-wielders...
And Abnetts books are enjoyed also by people who are otherwise not into GW stuff at all. I know one fellow who is a specialist on SF litterature and who has a rather picky taste. He loves Abnett and so so I. I have seen some web videos with him answering questions and generally talking about his books, the character, about how they developed etc...

Now that the third Gaunt Omnibus has hit the shelves, "The lost", I have my sight set upon it!

I have also read James Swallows "Faith and fire", and it was so and so. But what really destroyed it was that it was so damn obvious the writer must have been ordered to mention as many of the Sisters of Battles kit, vehicles and the Emperor knows what to push sell the stuff. There were some really enjoyable passages but overall the feeling was destroyed by the ballant commerical stuff put inside.

I believe GW simply allows Abnett more freedom, maybe because they realize he can very well make it without them!

As I have heard much good about William King, I am considering to pick him up.

Also, I feel inclined to by the Caiphan Cain Omnibus. After all, what can be more hillarious than a cowardly commisar!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 03, 2010, 06:27:12 PM
 Hmm cool list aldaris!

I would however swap one of the assault marines in Rhino with a unit of death company in rhino. They are better in combat and then you can spare a priest and get some other stuff in for the death company to compensate for their higher cost.

And then i dont think you have enough units with red thirst, so maybe Astorath should be kicked out and put in a librarian or some other instead.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 03, 2010, 06:42:37 PM
Yeah, thought so too. Unfortunately. Because Astorath is awesome. Another variant would be to replace him with a librarian (Epistolary of course), leave out one of the Furiosos as well and add an Honor Guard for the Librarian in a Razorback. They could have the Chapter Banner, 2 Infernus Pistols, 2 Powerswords and 2 Plasma Guns. And that squad already contains an unpickable priest... That would be some serious shooting (propably enough to take out a monster in one round) and be pretty nasty on the charge. With the bonuses from Priest and Banner we're looking at:
10 PW attacks at S5, 5 S10 PW attacks from the Librarian and 13 regular S5 attacks from the plasma troopers and priest. That's some hefty carnage. Oh, and another D3 extra attacks for the Librarian due to Might of Heroes.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 03, 2010, 08:44:53 PM
Hmm sounds nice! But i prefer jump packs for my guys ;)
But why not plasma pistols instead of guns?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 04, 2010, 04:22:50 PM
One word: rapid fire. If I face off against a high initiative monstrous creature like the Tyranids have (that has about 4-6 wounds) or something like TH/SS Terminators I need some volume of fire to be able to take it out/make a dent. The Libby has a combimelta, then the two infernus pistols plus rapid fire plasma gives me 7 shots and thus a decent chance of flattening it in one go (or at least dropping one or two Termies before I charge).
The drawback is, of course, rapid fire. If I use my plasma guns I won't be able to charge, which would be a shame for such a brutal cc squad. I could replace the plasma guns with infernus pistols as well, which would reduce the squads overall range, but allow me to charge and give the wielders an extra attack each.
Or plain melta guns which are cheaper, have greater range but are single shot and don't give an extra attack.
Not quite sure which way to go yet.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 05, 2010, 12:04:51 PM
Excactly, rapid fire.
I would specialise them. Either make them combaty with pistols or drop the powerswords and give them all plasma guns.
Plasma and feel no pain is awesome. And remember that the libby doesnt have to join the squad so you have a feel no pain devastator squad.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 05, 2010, 04:58:03 PM
The rapid fire forces you to make some tough choices, yes.
I would ditto McKnight unless you want a unit that can handle very different situations. If you want to assaults, you should stick with pistols, weapons for hand to hand and assault firearms.

I believe IG is one of the armies that most benefits from the rapid fire weapons, since they relly on firepower to paste their opposition.

As I am making a footslogger IG army, and will face Marines, Eldars and IG that are getting increasingly mechanised with heavy armour support, in the shape of both tanks and Terminators, plasmaguns are gold. Bought the bitz pack with 5 of them, so now I have six in total.  :icon_mrgreen:

I understand the desire for melta in this edition, but hey, thereīs nothing like the smell of burning plasma in the morning!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 05, 2010, 10:26:19 PM
The clown car is that speeder with all the scouts hanging out of it. It's annoying that blood angels can't have one. Or alternately that generic space wombats can't have a flamer-predator.

Still, I quite like the way the rocket-launcher-speeder looks. So maybe that would do instead.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on April 06, 2010, 04:42:40 AM
I read one of the William King "novels", I think it was called Trollslayer, possibly one after that, not sure, but an early one.

It was absolutely awful. Trash. And he's supposed to be one of the better ones?

Dan Abnett though, I will admit I haven't read so can't judge.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 06, 2010, 07:57:28 AM
Do it and judge later, Sig. I will remember yout warning about William King.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on April 06, 2010, 09:06:05 AM
Trollslayer is a collection of short stories. It's a bit hard to have character development in 20 pages..

They get better. Not super better but not absolute balls.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 07, 2010, 01:03:25 AM
Dan Abnett though, I will admit I haven't read so can't judge.
I recommend "Horus Rising".  Its the first in the Horus Heresy and it can draw a person in fairly well.  I'll be picking up more of his books eventually.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on April 07, 2010, 06:29:13 AM
Fair call, the Gaunt's Ghosts ideas don't do anything for me, but the Heresy is GW's better bit of fluff so that might be worth a look. Cheers.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 07, 2010, 12:24:41 PM
Here's fair warning ... the first book was so good that it actually had me picking up the second book in the series by Graham.  The second book, "False Gods", was better than the last book I tried to read by Graham and haven't finished yet, but it wasn't as good as the first book in the series.  However, it pays to read through the secound, and then read the third book by a guy named Ben Counter.  The third book, "A Galaxy in Flames", wasn't as quite as good as the first, yet it starts to flesh out some of the other eventual CSM chapters and at the same time was a decent read anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 07, 2010, 05:08:28 PM
Yesterday, I succumbed into buying a bunch of the new blood angels and right now, im sitting in my chair and putting together my sanguinary guard. I must say that they are some beatyful models! They dont bring alot of extra bits like the death company unfortunately, but thats okay! The wings can be a pain to fit on though, since there will be a jump pack and shoulder pads in the way so be careful when putting them together!


Now back to the glueing!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 07, 2010, 05:20:18 PM
I love those kinds of posts McKnight. :::cheers:::

- - - - - -

By the way, I picked up "The Ultra Marines Omnibus," primarily because I got it on sale at 50% off when a books tore was closing its doors (lovely economy as it is, I suspect).  This is a series of three novels that Graham McNeill.  There's also a short story at the front thta was written after the three novels.

The short story was decent, but I'm really struggling with the first novel, "Nightbringer".  The preface was interesting, and makes em wonder hoe he'll tie it into the rest of the story.  However, sometimes the author tells the reader things they can figure out for themselves and uses adjectives in spots where they aren't needed.  Not sure why this kind of thing bothers me, yet it seems like he's treating the reader as being stupid.  I'm sure its unintentional, but it really slows the reading process down when I notice this.  Maybe I just need to get further into the story to enjoy it more, but we'll see because I've struggled with this author when reading "Sigmar's Heirs" (still haven't finished it), and even with the Heresy Series book called "False Gods" (although this latter was the best I've read from him at this point).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 07, 2010, 10:43:20 PM
GP: I still recommend going for the Eisenhorn omnibus. Easily the best novel set in the 40K universe.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 07, 2010, 11:39:48 PM
Eisenhorn and Ravensomething are both great, Grey Knights Omnibus (by Ben Counter) is also decent.

I've heard that the Commissar Cain series is good, but haven't read it myself.

In general I find 40k novels to be a step above Fantasy ones.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 08, 2010, 02:47:27 AM
Eisenhorn is by Abnett, correct?

What about "Ravensomething"?  (And it could help to have the correct name. :icon_wink: )

Wouldn't be surprised about the "Grey Knight Omnibus" since Counter wrote the third Heresy book, too, and it was decently good.

And who writes the "Commissar Cain" novels, and if someone knows a title on the first on this could be helpful, too?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: ekman on April 08, 2010, 04:06:13 AM
Quote from: GamesPoet
However, sometimes the author tells the reader things they can figure out for themselves and uses adjectives in spots where they aren't needed.  Not sure why this kind of thing bothers me, yet it seems like he's treating the reader as being stupid.  I'm sure its unintentional, but it really slows the reading process down when I notice this.

I'm with you on that - needless adjectives and explanations are the quickest way to spot a bad writer.  They don't know how to convey scenes without it... It generally bothers me so much I can't even read books that would otherwise be at least entertaining.  I read the first 2 Ultramarines novels in the omnibus, the 2nd one was better than the 1st (at least I think, it's been a while) but still not good enough to make me feel like reading the 3rd one.

Abnett is indeed the best 40k writer (he understands how to pace an action story and comes up with some great settings and moods) and Eisenhorn is his best.  Revenor is pretty decent.  Sandy Mitchel, who writes Ciaphas Cain, commits the grievances mentioned above, but his books really are funny so I'd still recommend it for something light even by Black Library standards.  Souldrinker books have stupid characters but the setting is very dark and has a real 40k feel to it.  That's all I've read.  Just go for the omnibuses, they are very cheap.

I don't know why anybody would read the WHF books, the setting isn't that different than any other fantasy book except the writing will be even worse, I'd imagine...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 08, 2010, 07:33:39 AM
Eisenhorn is by Abnett, correct?

What about "Ravensomething"?  (And it could help to have the correct name. :icon_wink: )
Yes, Eisenhorn is from Abnett. So is the Ravenor series, which is also good. But not as good as Eisenhorn. That one really is the best.

The Ciaphas Cain novels are by Sandy Mitchell as far as I know, and I believe the first one is called For the Emperor. They were fairly nice mainly because they're shameless knockoffs of the Flashman series (which has nothing to do with 40K, but is set in the 19th century and features a cowardly British Officer who always manages to depict himself as a hero. Hilarious).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 08, 2010, 07:36:18 AM
Iīve only read one Fantasy book and that was Gileads blood. It was decent, and one of the few with elves as the main characters. I guess it was decent because Dan Abnett was one of the writers.

Like Ekman wisely said, go for the Omnibuses. I am going to get the third Gaunts Ghost omnibus when I get some cash. I can really recommend the omnibuses, as you get Dan Abnetts own comments and discussion on how the books developed. For a guard player they are also an exellent inspiration with so many different kinds of battlefields, from trenches to cities, airborne operations and mechanized warfare. And the characters...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 08, 2010, 12:04:42 PM
Hehe what was so good about my comment GP? :P

Anyways, i've kitbashed a chaplain out of a death company and almost put all my stuff together.

The rest of the day might go to reading, but maybe i will take a break and spray the models and let the painting begin tomorrow!


My current book that im reading is Grey knights, Its fairly okay so far. I love grey knights so i keep a positive attitude towards it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 08, 2010, 01:54:39 PM
I'm with you on that - needless adjectives and explanations are the quickest way to spot a bad writer.  They don't know how to convey scenes without it... It generally bothers me so much I can't even read books that would otherwise be at least entertaining.  I read the first 2 Ultramarines novels in the omnibus, the 2nd one was better than the 1st (at least I think, it's been a while) but still not good enough to make me feel like reading the 3rd one.
I'll try to get through the first, so I can get to the second.  It would seem to make sense that an editor of some kind would point these kinds of things out, yet I sometimes wonder if anyone reads these things before they go to print.  Nowadays I suspect the writing gets put through a commputer fro spelling errors, maybe, buts thats probably about it.

Quote
Abnett is indeed the best 40k writer (he understands how to pace an action story and comes up with some great settings and moods) and Eisenhorn is his best.  Revenor is pretty decent.  Sandy Mitchel, who writes Ciaphas Cain, commits the grievances mentioned above, but his books really are funny so I'd still recommend it for something light even by Black Library standards.  Souldrinker books have stupid characters but the setting is very dark and has a real 40k feel to it.  That's all I've read.  Just go for the omnibuses, they are very cheap.
What armies are the Eisenhorn, Revenor, and Souldrinker series about?

Humor might make the Cain books worth reading, but I'm leary when I hear that they ahve the same issues.

Quote
I don't know why anybody would read the WHF books, the setting isn't that different than any other fantasy book except the writing will be even worse, I'd imagine...
I read "Murders in Marienburg, and although I liked certain things about it, I didn't like others.  I've tried reading "Sigmars Heirs", and will still try to finish it, yet its written by the same guy who wrote the Ultramarines Omnibus.  I picked up C.L. Werner's Witch Hunter omnibus, because I heard it was good and because I got it on a store closing sale.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 08, 2010, 01:56:17 PM
The Ciaphas Cain novels are by Sandy Mitchell as far as I know, and I believe the first one is called For the Emperor. They were fairly nice mainly because they're shameless knockoffs of the Flashman series (which has nothing to do with 40K, but is set in the 19th century and features a cowardly British Officer who always manages to depict himself as a hero. Hilarious).
Ah ... well perhaps I'll give it a go at some point.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 08, 2010, 01:58:15 PM
Eisenhorn and Ravenor are about the Inquisition. So no army. Probably why they are so good. They give insight into the life of more ordinary imperial citizens. Stuff that isn't always "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!"
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 08, 2010, 02:00:04 PM
Hehe what was so good about my comment GP? :P
Describing a hobby project that's in process while at the same time posting on the site. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 08, 2010, 03:00:19 PM
As t12735198479 already stated, the "Eisenhorn" books are about Imperial Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn and his retinue. The three books follow him through a timespan of more than 100 years. The stories are very good, and Abnett manages to capture the feeling of actually living in this setting (as opposed to just fighting in it) extremely well.
A friend of mine who knows nothing about 40K enjoyed it a lot, which is always a good indicator in my opinon.

Gideon Ravenor appears in those books as Eisenhorns young interrogator, and gets his own spinoff series "Ravenor" later on. Also very good, but in my opinion not quite as good as the books about his old mentor.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 08, 2010, 03:07:05 PM
Sorry Aldaris, I recall you mentionning that now, and didn't when I posted last.  :icon_redface:  My mistake not T12's.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 08, 2010, 03:14:05 PM
I read "Murders in Marienburg

That is such a terrible book! Unimaginative, awkwardly written, and boring. 'Beasts in Velvet' is a much better warhammer murder mystery book.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 08, 2010, 11:24:02 PM
I need someones (probably Aldaris') opinion on Griffons.

I'm thinking an army of BMD/Ps. So far it's 3 Griffons and 4 Chimeras.  :engel:

Also the Chimeras will be armed with Heavy Bolters and Autocannons (yes, they bloody will).

Still a shock after my games of 1949 that 40k heavy machineguns roll 3 dice. In 1949 the LMG/HMG's roll 6-8 dice.  :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 08, 2010, 11:30:28 PM
Griffons seem to be one of the best artillery options the IG have. Cheap and cheerful. I am considering using one HS slot for a group of 2-3 as well. That's a lot of large templates for comparatively very few points.
Personally I haven't used them yet, but they sure look good on paper, and I hear good things too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 08, 2010, 11:32:22 PM
ah, excellent. I shall have to get lots. The plan is to purchase BMD/P 3's, with forward mounted turrets, carve a square compartment and put a mortar in. The turret will stay, and have the heavy bolter mounted in it.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmd-3-line.gif

Side view of the vehicle. Thinking of making it like the basilisk with a fully open rear area.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 08, 2010, 11:33:46 PM
That fits, since the Griffon is an open topped vehicle. Be sure to post some pics!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 08, 2010, 11:36:05 PM
Making this lot is how I plan to procrastinate through my exams in May.  :icon_cry:

Ah, I cannot wait till next week to start buying the needed components! So far it's at 9 Heavy Weapons teams, and 7-9 BMD/Ps.

Then in a month or so I shall get tanks.

Edit: I have finally worked out what I'm after. It's the BMD-1P. The BMD seems to be the airborne version of the BMP, and also has it's turret forward. That or the BMP 3, which is the normal version and thus larger. But also more expensive!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 09, 2010, 07:42:57 AM
The BMD is indeed the airdroped version. When I did my conscription service in 1993-1994, all we ever fought in our exercises were those russian airborne mechanized battalions! Shame we never get to practice against the bucketload of cheap former East germany IFV:s the swedish army bought from the shelf around then, would have been really cool.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 09, 2010, 12:45:28 PM
The painting started yesterday and my Sanguinary guard have gotten their wings painted! Now for the gold!
Im going for a base coat of tin bitz and then brazen brass with some highlights of my valejo paint, shining gold.

I also tried with tin bitz as base and then just paint shining gold on him.. Im undecided which method to use.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 09, 2010, 11:19:05 PM
I was on the very verge of getting into this four generals thing and doing Blood Angels... but I have decided to settle for a single squad of 5 Assault Marines for now to try out some color schemes and concentrate on my Skaven otherwise.
*sigh*
Still not a single game played with them, but about 80 figures painted. This is outrageous. For me at least.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 09, 2010, 11:20:46 PM
Wuss. By now you should've been killed by an aspiring claw leader, who would then have taken your horde to personal glory.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 09, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
Just no Fantasy opponents at the moment. If this trend continues this army will have its baptism of fire at the 'Bash...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 10, 2010, 08:05:14 AM
That would be somewhat fitting, would it not?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 10, 2010, 01:55:37 PM
I dno about griffons ... they dont have a good enough strenght and ap for my liking. I want my artillery to smash everything it hits. At the cost of the griffon accuracy of course.


Back to the blood angels. I've taken Aldaris' way of thinking to account. At least i think it was Aldaris who mentioned the honour guard and their possibilities.

But here is a modified list of mine that i will try. I'll just be proxying the honour guard with my sanguinary guard for now.

1500 pts blood angels

Hq
Librian 100      150
episotlary +50


Honour guard 115   265
Blood champ +20
chapter banner +30
3 power weapons +45
razor back +55



elite:
Furioso Dreadnought    125
Blood talons

troops:


6 death company 120   200
2 power weapons +30
rhino 50

10 assault marines   235
- powerfist
- 2 meltas

10 assault marines   235
- powerfist
- 2 meltas


Fast
baal predator+ heavy bolter   145
baal predator+ heavy bolter    145
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 10, 2010, 03:04:49 PM
Looks good and nasty. The only thing I would consider is giving a pod to the Furioso and changing the DC Rhino into a Razorback. That could be accomplished by just taking a regular Librarian over an Epistolary. Otherwise, I like it.

Regarding Griffons: they arent supposed to be flashy. But they'll still wound most units on a 2, are barrage, very accurate and dirt cheap. Excellent choice in my opinion.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 10, 2010, 03:22:23 PM
Hmm i dont really want to loose the epistolary upgrade since i like have the choice of giving unleash rage to his honour guard and D3 attacks to himself or the blood champion. Or to instant kill something instead.

I also thought of changing the Rhino into a razorback but dont have 5 points. The furioso is meant to be cheap and draw fire away from my transports. Maybe a DC dread is better for this as it is more scary.

Hmm but heavy slots are in demand in the guard army :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 10, 2010, 03:26:47 PM
Look at it this way: You can either have an extra D3 attacks in a unit that already dishes out 25 or so powerweapon attacks at S5 or 10, or you can have an extra Heavy Bolter and the ability to melta something turn 1 and assault on turn 2 instead of running for half the game. But it is your choice of course.

And a DC Dreadnought is not more scary than a Furioso, not by a long way. That extpoint of front armor, the high WS and the ability to actually choose your combats instead of blindly running for the closest one make one hell of a difference.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 10, 2010, 03:34:41 PM
You make good sense :P

Hmm but a DC dread ignores shaken and stunned, as an ekstra attack and higher initiative on charge. And an extra attack :o
I always have difficulties choosing between the two.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 10, 2010, 03:42:45 PM
I didn't mean DC Dreads aren't good. They look very good indeed, but have a serious drawback. That's why I would use them for target overload with multiple Dreadnoughts, not dedicated Dread duties like taking out important armor or tying stuff up in cc. Those pretty much require that you'll be able to control the thing.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 10, 2010, 03:48:45 PM
Hehe yes but it worked very nice the only time i used it. I think its best to send it up on one of the flanks.

Do you think the magna grapple has an effect on the dread's melta? Say if the grapple pulls the vehicle within 6" and then fires the melta, it gets the bonus. Or do you think that the weapons are fired at the same time?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 10, 2010, 03:50:36 PM
To be honest, Blood Angels are wusses compared to Angry Marines.

This is one of the reasons why:

(http://i.imagehost.org/0131/angrinatorr.jpg) <- Angry Marine Transport
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 10, 2010, 04:33:47 PM
Amen to that, MrDwhitey! Amen to that!  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 10, 2010, 09:40:49 PM
God that is awesome!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 10, 2010, 11:41:36 PM
The one with the chainsword is probably all like: "shoot me closer, i want to hit them with my sword!"
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 11, 2010, 12:02:52 AM
MrDWhitey ... got it correct this time ... did you make that?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Taureus on April 11, 2010, 07:25:09 AM
It's called an "Angrinator", if I am not mistaken.

And it shoots squads of Angry Marines!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 11, 2010, 02:00:24 PM
Of course I didn't make it. It's actually good. Everything I make is awful.

And yes Taureus, that is it's name. How awesome can it get?

All I want now is someone to convert Commissar Fuklaw and his squad of Angry Marines ripping apart a Thunderhawk and grabbing onto the engines to get to the enemy faster.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 11, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
Oiii! I have a tinkerday today, and brought out some convertion project into the spring sunlight for work!

First, my reworked Boomraida! My gretchin oilers have amussed themselves with this Dark eldar raider and I think they might have something going. I will have to add a special rule about it making a D6 recoil move everytime the boomgun fires.
The boomgun is a 1/35 105mm feldhaubitze from a Wespe self-propelled artillery vehicle.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto304.jpg)

Then, I finally put the knife to the M8 Greyhound that was finished and painted when I got it. However, I figured out it would make a neat "count as" Devil Dog for my Imperial guards.
However, it is referred to as a Death Dog.
The heavy bolter comes is a bitz from a gun servitor and the Melta cannon is a cut down multimelta from a Sisters of Battle Immolator kit. These multis are so beffy they work smashingly as a substitute Melta cannon.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto306.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto305.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 11, 2010, 03:43:09 PM
I love the boom raider! :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 11, 2010, 08:19:26 PM
The boom raider does amuse me.  :mrgreen:

I just had my first two games of 40k using a fully painted force!

Daemon Prince, Sorc, 3 squads of 7 plaguemarines in rhinos, 2 vindicators and 9 lesser demons utterly annihilated a Eldar force twice, with little losses. I actually felt bad after those two games.

I tried the Lash of Submission for the first time also, on the sorcerer. It's insanely good, I may drop it altogether.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 11, 2010, 09:59:38 PM
Yeah, use something Nurgly instead. But the Nurgle spells are not very good... how about Wind of Chaos? Or that hilarious one that turns enemies into spawns?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on April 11, 2010, 10:23:51 PM
Put wheels on the boom thingy. The orcs wouldn't be able to fix it properly!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 11, 2010, 10:31:44 PM
Yeah, use something Nurgly instead. But the Nurgle spells are not very good... how about Wind of Chaos? Or that hilarious one that turns enemies into spawns?

The sorcerer is meant to be undivided, so I pretty much use any power I want on him at the moment.

I do really like Nurgles rot, but it depends on the army I face.

My sorcerer failed me in my second game. Charged the enemy Farseer, missed with all attacks, and I hadn't cast with him so I could use the Force Weapon power.  :dry:

The Daemon Prince in game one obliterated those Wraith Guard things, was very nice. In game two he kinda floated around my deployment being chased by 3 vypers, until he attacked them and managed to ... rip the weapons off one, and then get shot dead.

What do I do against Wraithlords I wonder? That thing scared me. In the end I had to throw two plague marine squads at it with power fist champions spending 3 turns clubbing it's legs. It in turn also failed to hit me most turns. Embarassing. Are powerfists the main thing to deal with them? In the end I had to rely on him missing his attacks with it, and with it's reroll, I was -very- lucky he missed a lot.

I can't lascannon spam it to death, as the only way I can do that is with Obliterators, and I refuse to go all out with them. Ah well, it was dealt with, just not in a timely fashion.

It is a very satisfying feeling getting a Hit on the scatter dice with a Vindicator on a squad of Wraithguard.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 12, 2010, 12:25:56 AM
Wraithlords? A breeze. Only three HP on the bugger, although that T8 can be a bummer. I use mass special weapons fire, specifically: plasma with a bit of melta thrown in for good measure. The havoc squad with plasma guns brings 'em down real quick. It is a walker, so it's not very fast. A mounted up army is able to concentrate force on them no sweat.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 12, 2010, 01:15:00 AM
I think it's 4 wounds actually. I could be wrong.

I have a tough time with my friends 3 Wraithlord list, it's pretty nasty.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 12, 2010, 07:43:41 AM
Who knows Mogsie, I might add some wheels to the raida in time.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 12, 2010, 09:48:51 PM
Give it wheels, more orky.

However many wounds they have, I think I overfelt the threat of it. All I knew was that it was hard to kill, in the end it didn't really do much other than tie up a squad or two of plaguemarines, and the rest of my army had killed everything else he had (the next game I just ignored it, it was in a corner far away from my army).

Well, ordering my Russian BMD filled force is on hold till next week now, I need to buy some Germans first for non-40k use.  :biggriin:

I will hopefully however buy a Cadian Command Set and practice the camo painting I intend to use on my force. It's probably going to end up being yet another army of Peadot (I've now done Summer, Autumn, and Winter peadot camo on various german troopers), but with Urban colours. Replicating
(http://i.imagehost.org/0588/russian.jpg)

seems like less fun than doing Peadot again.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on April 13, 2010, 09:35:40 AM
Hello 40k'rs, have a look at this.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=197114 (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=197114)

The guy sculpted and painted this dreadnought guy, painted pictures on page 2.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on April 13, 2010, 02:07:01 PM
That's fantastic. I hope he wins, with the effort he put into that. Not much else to say really.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 13, 2010, 04:08:18 PM
Crap that is so awesome!  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 16, 2010, 10:53:53 AM
I have a question about the Kill team scenario from the Battle missions book.

Its regarding the size of table.

In the book it says, quote: "Kill team is ideally played on a table that is three or four foot square."

Now. Some of my friends are arguing that this means 3x3 / 4x4 feet, with the argument that its mentioned as a square, not quadratic?

Now...I, being the one studying English, argued that it was ment as a 1.5x1.5 / 2x2 feet square (quadratic). But the meaning is hard to interpret through this wording.
My arguments. Its only 200pts against 200pts. And the normal size of table for 1500pts is 4'x6' so a 4x4 square would be absurdly big.


Any help from you guys would be appreciated :)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 16, 2010, 11:05:09 AM
3x3 or 4x4.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 16, 2010, 11:05:35 AM
I think your friends are right. 1.5-2 ft is a bit on the small side. I would go with the 3*3, that actually has some room and allows for some tactics. Consider Mordheim.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 16, 2010, 11:11:51 AM
Hmm well we'll try that next time then :P... then snipers actually might be worth trying out :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 16, 2010, 12:11:39 PM
I just got to get some money free for that Battle mission book, I just got to!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 17, 2010, 12:35:28 AM
Don't know if this has been posted before, or if folks have seen these already, but ...

These were just released from Wargames Factory:

http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRet...e.aspx?ID=32119 (http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRetrieve.aspx?ID=32119)

Almost enough to make me want to start IG.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 17, 2010, 12:42:25 AM
Damn, forgot about them.

Many will be purchased (well, I only need 45).

Just saw the sprue pictures. HOW MANY EXTRAS? Gorgeous stuff.

They will serve Chaos well....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Taureus on April 17, 2010, 01:34:01 AM
Don't know if this has been posted before, or if folks have seen these already, but ...

These were just released from Wargames Factory:

http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRet...e.aspx?ID=32119 (http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRetrieve.aspx?ID=32119)

Almost enough to make me want to start IG.

Being an IG player, I can't say that those are anything that I would want to use in my army.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 17, 2010, 09:41:01 AM
Neither would I, but they would make great traitor Guard in my opinon, like the Blood Pact.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 17, 2010, 09:44:32 AM
I feel the same way. They are nice, but its not really the real deal :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 17, 2010, 01:32:09 PM
Obviously, these figures would give a different flavor/theme to an Imperial Guard Army.

I've heard some folks interested in IG with great coats, and this could certainly fit the bill.

Heard they're planning on making heavy weapons teams and command sprues, too.

There are now pictures of the sprue up on the company's site accessible via that link I provided above.

And here's a review of the sprue ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU)

Could perhaps be ok to use these for mechanicus IG, Steel Legion, traitor guard, or someother creative and imaginary unit.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: ekman on April 17, 2010, 03:09:16 PM
If the scale/proportions look about right then you could mix and match certain parts with IG stuff to make it a little better, or more like normal IG.  If nothing else just use the greatcoat body and not the rest.  As it is I don't think they're particularly amazing but the price is about right.

Good traitor guard indeed, especially with the cthulhu head on there

Edit:  I skimmed through that video GP, I was a bit on the fence about how they looked prior but at 15:30 they show a small squad of them assembled and put together and I must say they look pretty good.  And they do appear to be the same size as guardsmen, seen at around 21:00
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 17, 2010, 03:12:56 PM
Just got 3 BMD's to make into Mortar carriers (griffons). Oh god, each track is individual Aldaris, I hate you so much. I've got another 5 to order for my troops.  :dry:

They're nice and big too  :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 17, 2010, 04:17:28 PM
ekman ... yep, the fact that the GW stuff and their stuff seems to work nicely together, provides plenty of opportunity for creativity amd conversions.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 17, 2010, 04:42:24 PM
Just got 3 BMD's to make into Mortar carriers (griffons). Oh god, each track is individual Aldaris, I hate you so much. I've got another 5 to order for my troops.  :dry:
My pleasure! Have fun. I am drudging through painting slaves right now...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 17, 2010, 04:56:38 PM
Just got 3 BMD's to make into Mortar carriers (griffons). Oh god, each track is individual Aldaris, I hate you so much. I've got another 5 to order for my troops.  :dry:
My pleasure! Have fun. I am drudging through painting slaves right now...

I'm less looking forward to building the 2 HIND Gunships. They're each over 14 inches long, and extremely detailed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Taureus on April 17, 2010, 11:43:04 PM
Obviously, these figures would give a different flavor/theme to an Imperial Guard Army.

I've heard some folks interested in IG with great coats, and this could certainly fit the bill.

Heard they're planning on making heavy weapons teams and command sprues, too.

There are now pictures of the sprue up on the company's site accessible via that link I provided above.

And here's a review of the sprue ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU)

Could perhaps be ok to use these for mechanicus IG, Steel Legion, traitor guard, or someother creative and imaginary unit.

Whatever suits your fancy.

You could just as easily buy the greatcoat bodies that GW does make from bitz suppliers if you are that hardpressed for a whole army of them.

And not waste money buying an entire sprue of mis-sized (possibly, since 28mm =/= 28mm heroic) accessories.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 18, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
Depends on what you mean.  And I'm not sure I understand.

Anyway, Ekman is right on with what he saw in the video.  The Wargames Factory shock troops fit along side GW IG quite nicely as shown in the video.  Even along side FW's resin minis, yet not surprisingly less detailed, they fit size wise.

However, it really is all in what a person is looking for. :::cheers:::

I'll save the pricing for the more specific thread, since this is the 40K thread ...

:icon_arrow: www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=33362.0 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=33362.0)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 19, 2010, 12:44:06 PM
Cool looking dudes! Perfect for Blood pacters!

I am sticking with Cadians for my core platoon, but so far my three vet squad are all different, as if attached from other units.
One are all Tanith first and only minis, alongside the Steel legions my favourite IG sculpts. The second are made from Catachans, with some Cadian heads mixed in.-The third are Cadians but with the closed helmet heads, or with attached re-breathers, to give them a grenadier feel. :icon_mrgreen:

But Cadians fits best for my plan to make a platoon inspired by my own Homeguard/National Protection Forces platoon. We got the most awesome callsigns within our Company by the way, Delta X-ray. Usually shortened to Delta.  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 19, 2010, 12:46:53 PM
Mathi ... That is a great idea, I like the idea of having a mixed IG army.  Having different squads of infantry working together to battle the enemies of mankind.

 :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 24, 2010, 02:59:57 PM
Big Bad Leroy Brown taking Hanz and Franz for a walk (I didn't come up with Big Bad Leroy Brown)

(http://j.imagehost.org/0879/hff1.jpg)

(http://j.imagehost.org/0275/hff2.jpg)


They're not done yet, need to do all the detail work.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on April 24, 2010, 04:04:25 PM
Looking good! I'm going to use dual defilers in my Word Bearers army, I've got one regular defiler and I'll buy a Soul Grinder to use as the second. I've got some jewelery chain, and I'm going to model it so that the chain is connected from its legs to its torso, so that every time it moves it rips at the skin making it angrier, the WB treat daemons as slaves after all.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 24, 2010, 05:08:59 PM
Big Bad Leroy Brown taking Hanz and Franz for a walk (I didn't come up with Big Bad Leroy Brown)

They're not done yet, need to do all the detail work.
Those are going to be real nice when they're finished! And I like the "standing up" conversion. Looks kinda like a Battlemech now. A very spiky one.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 24, 2010, 08:16:02 PM
Uh thats nice! :P

You must deploy them like that :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on April 24, 2010, 08:28:34 PM
Now there's a chaotic 40K idea!

:::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 24, 2010, 08:28:50 PM
Uh thats nice! :P

You must deploy them like that :P

I'm going to feed you to Hanz.

Now there's a chaotic 40K idea!

You're the only person I can imagine being capable of saying that deadpan, and totally serious.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on April 25, 2010, 07:32:16 AM
I bought the Battle mission book on friday! Man is it filled with goodness! And yesterday my Homeguard/National protection forces platoon had a day at the firing ranges and I announced I was going to make a 40K version of the imfamous Delta X-ray platoon for 40K!  :icon_razz:

My platoon mates said I was crazy, but that it was nothing new to them.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 25, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
Well, BBLB and H&F got to play tonight. They didn't really do too much, combined they took down a thousand sons squad, one of them charged a chaos lord and got melta bombed (we realised after he needed a six to hit, so we redid it, the defiler killed the lord).

Really, my plaguemarines gunned his men down, my prince spent 3 turns being tarpitted by a thousand sons squad, and then his terminators came down.

And all died in one go to the prince and a Defiler. Tabled the guy, looked at the time, less than an hour had gone by. I felt bloody bad then.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 25, 2010, 08:28:53 PM
Why? It's not like 3 Defilers and a single Prince constitute a cheese-fest.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 25, 2010, 08:31:39 PM
The defilers didn't even do much!  :unsure:

One immobilised his Lascannon dread, whereupon two empty rhinos parked around it and drove around it every turn like circling sharks to block it's LoS  :icon_twisted: , one spent the game on it's back like a dead spider after the meltabomb incident, and the other killed 1 thousand son and 2 terminators (not including all 3 needing to fire on a thousand sons squad, and not even killing them all).

I guess it was due to both of us being Chaos, we had small armies. By the time my men disembarked, his AP3 Tksons were either in combat or about to be shot, his plaguemarines managed to miss mine, and his tag team of a lord and a daemonprince got bogged down by a daemon unit I dropped from a rhino beacon as my troops zoomed past him.

Then his terminators dropped down once all his stuff were dead, and got combo charged by the prince and a defiler. The prince neatly cut down 2, then the other 3 almost cut him down. The defiler fluffed, and then next turn the prince finished them.

Next week I fight a dual monolith necron army!   :mrgreen: Thinking the usual setup, with heavies going to be two vindicators and 3 oblits. Gonna have to drop the sorc for those oblits me thinks. Mmmm.

Also, does anyone know what ignores We'll Be Back? I lost my necron codex in the great purge of 2008 (my room was redone).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Taureus on April 25, 2010, 11:29:18 PM
Also, does anyone know what ignores We'll Be Back? I lost my necron codex in the great purge of 2008 (my room was redone).

Power weapons/fists and any weapons that are double their toughness (so S8+)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 26, 2010, 12:32:12 AM
More specifically, any close combat weapon that ignores their armor save.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Taureus on April 26, 2010, 01:19:25 AM
More specifically, any close combat weapon that ignores their armor save.

Yes, but I can't think of anything else CSM have access to besides those...They might have force weapons (I don't play CSM, so I can't say).

Other possibilities are Rending CC attacks. Again, I don't know if there are any of these in the CSM book.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 26, 2010, 01:31:14 AM
I would be immensely surprised if Sorcs couldn't get Force Weapons, and while I remember 'Zerkers having some sort of special CC weapon, I think that's me mixing up their old book with the newer one.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 26, 2010, 07:39:14 AM
More specifically, any close combat weapon that ignores their armor save.

Yes, but I can't think of anything else CSM have access to besides those...They might have force weapons (I don't play CSM, so I can't say).

Other possibilities are Rending CC attacks. Again, I don't know if there are any of these in the CSM book.
They have access to both. And Plasma/Melta, Las- and Battlecannons. So plenty really.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 26, 2010, 08:06:18 AM
Plasma cannon's wouldn't work, it's only close combat weapons that ignore armor saves or any weapon that's more than double their T.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 26, 2010, 08:21:44 AM
Plasma cannon's wouldn't work, it's only close combat weapons that ignore armor saves or any weapon that's more than double their T.
Ah, so not equivalent to the stuff that cancels Feel no Pain. Good to know, because that's the way it was explained to me once.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 26, 2010, 08:32:23 AM
Yeah, it's a bit different. It's really a very nice rule, just complicated.

For example, you leave the 'crons on the field no matter what, you don't remove them after one turn or after they've moved out of the resurrection range of another squad.

Most people will remove them after one turn (even if they don't fail their "We'll Be Back" roll), or if they're out of range of a unit that can revive them.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 26, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
I would not be surprised if they replace the rule with Feel No Pain in December when the new book comes out.  The current rule is okay, but it needs a little help.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 26, 2010, 11:01:57 AM
Battle cannons are nice against necrons! :D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 26, 2010, 11:20:39 AM
I would not be surprised if they replace the rule with Feel No Pain in December when the new book comes out.  The current rule is okay, but it needs a little help.

Phil

I've heard FNP and Relentless for a while, from a variety of sources.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 26, 2010, 12:50:08 PM
I'm thinking of taking the defilers now, and ignoring the monoliths. Forcing him to phase out.  :mrgreen:

He's thinking of taking a C'tan too... Will add that to the list of things to ignore and go for phase out.

Also thinking of trying some dreaded "6 power weapon with rerolls to wound on the charge attacks" terminators...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Taureus on April 27, 2010, 04:08:24 AM
Yeah, it's a bit different. It's really a very nice rule, just complicated.

For example, you leave the 'crons on the field no matter what, you don't remove them after one turn or after they've moved out of the resurrection range of another squad.

Most people will remove them after one turn (even if they don't fail their "We'll Be Back" roll), or if they're out of range of a unit that can revive them.

If there isn't a unit in range to resurrect them the following turn, they are removed.

They don't just rock out until you can move into range to bring them back...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on April 27, 2010, 04:21:41 AM
There's some trick to the wording that's important. I'll ask the local player again.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 27, 2010, 10:36:12 AM
True, but if there is a monolith within 24" they can just beam to that and roll their get back up anyway.

Also, I would go the opposite direction Dwhitey.  Drop vehicles and mob marines.  Use obliterators or havok squads on the monoliths.  Necrons will murder vehicles if you aren't dropping piles of them.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on April 27, 2010, 11:18:50 AM
True, but if there is a monolith within 24" they can just beam to that and roll their get back up anyway.

Also, I would go the opposite direction Dwhitey.  Drop vehicles and mob marines.  Use obliterators or havok squads on the monoliths.  Necrons will murder vehicles if you aren't dropping piles of them.

Phil

I usually drop 6+ vehicles (minimum of 3 transports, rest artillery) a game. I personally think going after the monoliths will be a waste, especially if I'm killing his necron troopers with weapons that ignore We'll be Back.

That's just how I personally feel about it. That and I only have 3 painted obliterators, and no havocs.  :-D

My painted list (hopefully) by the game will be:

4 Squads of 7 plaguemarines with double plasma, each squad with a rhino one squad left to do, all rhinos done
10 Raptors with the mark of nurgle, champ with lightning claws needs details and basing
5 terminators with lightning claws ("The Unadorned", plain as hell looking, but the two with flesh showing are heavily mutated, so on the outside they look normal, on the inside, chaotic) needs starting
8 Khorne Berzerkers details and basing
5 Chosen with all plasma/melta (got a Dark Angels veteran squad, using them as a sacrificial "Fallen Angels" group, as I hate emo DA  :engel: )  needs starting
3 Defilers done
2 Vindicators done
3 Obliterators done
1 Land Raider done
Daemon Prince done
Sorcerer done

When it comes to 40k, I'm trying desperately (and so far succeeding) in fielding only painted forces.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 08, 2010, 11:54:32 AM
Our gaming club is having a 1750pts tournament the first weekend in july and I have already started making lists.

Im going to play blood angels, I think... maybe Imperial guard, but dno.

Anyways heres my list, sorry for the AB format:

1 Mephiston, Lord of Death (HQ) @ 250 Pts
     #Artificer Armour; #Psychic Hood; #The Sanguine Sword; #Unleash Rage;
     #Wings of Sanguinius; Force Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak
     Grenades; Psyker (3)

5 Sanguinary Guard (Elites)  250 Pts
     #Chapter Banner; Glaive Encarmine (x5); Angelus Boltgun (x3); Infernus
     Pistol (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Packs

1 Sanguinary Priest (Elites)  75 Pts
     Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak
     Grenades; Blood Chalice

1 Furioso Librarian (Elites)  175 Pts
Wings of Sanguinius; Might of Heroes;

10 Assault marines (Troops)  235 Pts
2 meltaguns, sergeant with powerfist

10 Assault marines (Troops)  235 Pts
2 meltaguns, sergeant with powerfist

8 Death Company (Troops)  240 Pts
Bolter; Close Combat Weapon (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
2 have BP and powerweapon
     1 Rhino
     

1 Baal Predator (Fast Attack) @ 145 Pts
     Smoke Launchers; 2 Spons. Hvy Bolters; TL Assault Cannon

1 Baal Predator (Fast Attack) @ 145 Pts
     Smoke Launchers; 2 Spons. Hvy Bolters; TL Assault Cannon

Models in Army: 39

Total Army Cost: 1750


I know it doesnt have a lot of scoring units but thats not really the plan of this army.
Its an offensive army and will be played that way. It is going to attack the enemy's scoring units and choose my battels because of my mobility. If needed, then my assault marines will be able to jump to an objective.

The main battle plan is as follows.
The two dakka baals, DC rhino, mephiston and Librarian dread start on the table will the rest deepstrike. The force that is on the table will be deployed on one flank and will move up to the enemy quickly and prepare an assault and weaken the enemy. In turn 2, about 2 squads should enter the battlefield and will land somewhere out of reach of counterassaults, or preferably behind the enemy and then melta the enemy's heavy tanks while supported by the ground forces.
I think you get the idea :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on May 08, 2010, 12:08:17 PM
I don't really get why you equip your DC with bolters - you want 'em in cc, not rapid-firing at stuff. And with the fast Rhino you should make cc by turn two.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 08, 2010, 12:28:07 PM
Its because... well... i modelled them with bolters :p... I needed their weapons for assault marines  :closed-eyes:

But i think bolters are cool! They are relentless afterall, so they can rapid fire and assault afterwards.
Also it makes them a bit more versatile if their rhino gets blown up.

A little math hammer:
6 DC with pistols and CCW does 12,43 wounds on a marine stat victim on the charge. 10,45 from close combat attacks and 1,98 from pistols.
6 DC with bolters and ccw does 11,8 wounds on the charge. 7,84 from CC and 3,96 from bolters. So its not that big a difference.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on May 08, 2010, 02:26:59 PM
DC with bolters are so wrong.

Plus, if you are better at shooting, he may remove the models closest preventing the assault. Sure you'll most likely plan for this and get very close, but it will happen.

Tomorrow I have the pleasure of introducing a new player to 40k, he bought my Tau and is going to face Chaos.

Just have to make a nice list for him to face.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on May 08, 2010, 02:42:58 PM
DC with bolters are so wrong.

Plus, if you are better at shooting, he may remove the models closest preventing the assault. Sure you'll most likely plan for this and get very close, but it will happen.
Besides, McKnights calcs don't factor in the effects on the game. If you kill models in the shooting phase, he'll just make an unmodified Ld test. If you kill em in cc you have a good chance to run him down and take the unit out. CC kills are better!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 08, 2010, 03:37:08 PM
True true :P
But they are still staying. I'm not buying more Ģ20 5 model boxes ::heretic::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on May 08, 2010, 04:03:38 PM
Silly McKnight.  :icon_rolleyes:

Anyway, I was bored and tired of doing revision so I gathered my painted chaos and took pictures.

http://img219.imageshack.us/g/chaos4.jpg/

It's hard for me to paint troops.  :icon_cry:

The extra rhino houses the squad I failed to paint.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on May 08, 2010, 04:08:46 PM
Very nice army! I like the look of your nurgle dudes.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 09, 2010, 10:04:04 AM
Not bad!

Why are the termies blue?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on May 09, 2010, 01:36:05 PM
I blame my camera, they're grey/black!  :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on May 19, 2010, 07:01:23 PM
Ah, yes.

I vowed to destroy them, as I recall.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on May 19, 2010, 07:03:14 PM
As if you could.  :icon_lol:

They have annihilated all who have stood against them!
Title: Re: 40K SPEARHEAD
Post by: neverness on May 29, 2010, 04:15:36 AM
Ok, so SPEARHEAD has arrived. The White Dwarf was surprisingly good, with some decent content for a change, and I hope with the new editor this trend will continue.

However, I just HAVE to gripe a little about the spearhead article: Really, the actually Spearhead lists are online? Really? I paid for pretty pics, a hand full of rules and a link to get to the lists for FREE? If they really thought they were doing me a favor by showing me pics of the new Leman Russ and the Eldar tanks from every conceivable angle, and placing the vital component to these rules (for free) online, I'd say someone has been abusing their meds again....

Having gotten that gripe out of the way, I think I like Spearhead quite a lot. I may finally have an excuse to break down and buy a Stompa (other than "they're cool", which just isn't enough justification at this time). I think it's possible I will play this far more than Planetstrike or Cities of Death or even Apocalypse.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 29, 2010, 11:31:14 AM
Im not really interested in it... at all.. Im just looking through the rules on GW and they dont really seem to interest me.

It just sounds like a spawn of apocalypse...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on May 29, 2010, 11:38:31 AM
Apocolypse is cool! :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 29, 2010, 11:45:19 AM
WEll okay, maybe it would cool to include spearhead just not overdoing it... but oh well... the guard wont be changed that much :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on May 29, 2010, 11:54:47 AM
Don't know anything about Spearhead, yet, except its suppose to be about tanks.

I haven't played Planetstrike, yet, but looking forward to it eventually.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 29, 2010, 12:27:54 PM
Rules can be found here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050292a_Spearhead__Formations (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050292a_Spearhead__Formations)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: neverness on May 29, 2010, 12:51:43 PM

...how about Apocalypse Lite?

Finally read through the downloads last night, and it appears that I'm wrong about the Stompa! However, this does give IG player the chance to use their Baneblades (and variants). Some of these are a bit tasty: Tank units with 5+ invulnerable saves? Fast attack vehicles that can move flat out AND shoot? Tanks rams that count as AV15 for the ram? Me like!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on May 29, 2010, 05:12:50 PM
Actually the White dwarf includes all the rules and missions, so you would still be getting something for your money.

But it is an apoc light version. The formations do not take any extra FOC slots.

Isnt the stompa a superheavy?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on May 30, 2010, 06:43:46 PM
It'd better be, seeing as it's more points than a Baneblade!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on May 30, 2010, 06:51:22 PM
I believe it is a Superheavy. If I get filthy rich I may buy a Stompa for kicks and stomp my sons Marines to smear with it. And maybe Shadowwolfs Nids aswell.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on May 30, 2010, 06:55:37 PM
I believe it is a Superheavy. If I get filthy rich I may buy a Stompa for kicks and stomp my sons Marines to smear with it. And maybe Shadowwolfs Nids aswell.  :icon_mrgreen:

I'm going to buy a Stompa, and never open the box. Just to spite you.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on May 30, 2010, 07:29:46 PM
It'd better be, seeing as it's more points than a Baneblade!
To be fair, it does kick a fair bit more ass than a Baneblade in cc...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on May 30, 2010, 10:42:11 PM
Kustom Stompas are more expensive, more durable (KFF!) and can be much more powerful shootingwise than any of the baneblade versions.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: neverness on May 30, 2010, 11:04:58 PM
Isnt the stompa a superheavy?

Yup, I stand (re)corrected! It's a Super-heavy Walker. I can only guess that when I first read the Super-Heavy Spearhead entry that I was projecting TANK on that somehow... :eusa_wall:

Now I want one-badly!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on May 31, 2010, 12:06:30 AM
I believe it is a Superheavy. If I get filthy rich I may buy a Stompa for kicks and stomp my sons Marines to smear with it. And maybe Shadowwolfs Nids aswell.  :icon_mrgreen:
I'm going to buy a Stompa, and never open the box. Just to spite you.
I bought a stompa a ways back, on sale, and opened the box. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on May 31, 2010, 11:53:54 AM
I have four with one still on its sprue!

As for Tanks, just roll out the ol Skull Hammer!  It is awesome!

Fill it with lootas and people will vanish mysteriously in a cloud of red mist...

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on May 31, 2010, 02:53:35 PM
It'd better be, seeing as it's more points than a Baneblade!
To be fair, it does kick a fair bit more ass than a Baneblade in cc...

That's a given. I wasn't trying to say that the two are equivalent in power...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 04, 2010, 01:13:29 PM
Ok, I caved in and started a space marine army. :icon_lol:

I'll blame it on the nephew thinking their cool and wanting to learn how to paint.  That and I had two boxes of AoBR with them just begging to be constructed.  It can be tough to wake up in the morning to the chant of, "Build us! Build Us! Build Us!"

So we washed and base coated two dreadnaughts this weekend, one for him, one for me.  He had been trying to decide on which chapter to paint and after hours of looking through the codex and the "how to paint space marines" book he decided on White Scars.  I had contemplated The Mentors further back, yet had also considered designing my own, but when he picked the White Scars, I figured someone would need to teach him a way to paint white, so it looks like The Mentors it will be.

Some day I need to dig up my 40K log somewhere around here, and see where I left off.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 05, 2010, 11:30:36 AM
Good for you!

But what did you do with all the orks? :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 05, 2010, 09:31:04 PM
Oh I still got those.  Was slowly painting them for about 6 to 9 months.  Most are painted with base and at least three other colors, although still quite a bit of work to do.

Then when the T&G campaign was announced, focus has been on converting and painting Empire for a merc army. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 06, 2010, 04:00:48 PM
I quite casually looked at the forge world Krieg guys today. Haven't painted anything in 3 months or so, wanted something awesome to paint to get out of the slump. Ģ36 bloody quit! Ridiculous for 10!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 06, 2010, 04:26:42 PM
But seriously... they are awesome..


One of my "rich" (read person who doesnt know what to spend his money on) bought around 500pts of infantry and death riders 3 months ago... and hasnt put a single model together yet...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 06, 2010, 04:35:27 PM
They do look good, but not half a days work good.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 07, 2010, 08:25:18 PM
Can you play 40k with small armies? I'm tempted to make a small Guard army out of the heart stoppingly expensive Krieg minitaures. So litterally like two units maximum or something. They look so gritty and awesome...

I get the feeling it's a horde army and that it'd simply be too expensive for anything other than show painting.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 07, 2010, 08:30:35 PM
Guard are horde. Guardsmen are about 4 points each.

You could play only 40k in 40 minutes/Combat Patrols.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 07, 2010, 08:36:07 PM
Yes, a combat patrol force of 2 mounted Vet squads or something, with some kind of commander. Not a lot of minis.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 07, 2010, 08:37:19 PM
Remember carapace armour on all squads.

Yes, this will increase points and reduce the models needed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 07, 2010, 08:38:40 PM
So I'd need tanks of some variety too? The command squads are troublingly Ģ20 each..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 07, 2010, 08:45:25 PM
You don't need them, but it makes sense. Something like this would be a viable combat patrol list:

***************  1 HQ  *************** 

Lord Commissar
- 1 x Plasma pistol
- 1 x Power weapon
 - - - > 90 Punkte


***************  2 Standard  *************** 

Veteran Squad
- 3 x Veteran with Plasma gun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 170 Punkte

Veteran Squad
- 3 x Veteran with Flamer
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
   - Multi-laser
   - Heavy bolter
 - - - > 140 Punkte


Gesamtpunkte Imperiale Armee : 400
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 07, 2010, 10:41:30 PM
Has anyone looked at these?

http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html (http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html)

The weapons/heads/backpacks would make a good set of non Cadian guardsmen I think! Combined with the Kommisar for the Krieg at least. But would certainly be very gritty, specifically the militia heads, gasmasks etc. They would be like Krieg but without the longcoats. Also, lasguns look rubbish.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on June 08, 2010, 08:37:57 AM
Them look rather nifty! Also, they are simply packing autoguns instead of Lasguns. Same profile. :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 08, 2010, 09:37:46 AM
Somewhat ironically I bought all the parts to make cool looking guardsmen and then realised that it cost more than the Krieg would anyway..

Booooo.

Gonna see if I can cancel it!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on June 08, 2010, 02:45:45 PM
I bought the head/backpack set from pig iron, and used it for my veterans
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 08, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
My friend uses the helmet guys with gasmasks and they look nice and fit perfectly.


I bought the manticore set today and im trying to find a way of making both the manticore and deathstrike. Where I just swap the weapons. I have 4 hellstrike missiles from the valkyries and was wondering if I could just use those, but apparently you can only build one ramp... argh!

Any ideas?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 09, 2010, 01:55:26 AM
Hey Mogs ... Wargames Factory is coming out with their Shock Troops in the next few weeks.  They are plastic, and come with plenty of options for bits, too.  I think $19.95 for 18 figures.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 10, 2010, 04:53:38 PM
Wasn't very impressed by the wargames factory guys.

I accidently bought 10 guardsmen and a command squad. Though the command squad came with breating apparatus and now I want enough for each guy! Only get 5 not 15 though lol. Been so long since i've sculpted it might get interesting!

Also, I don't actually know what I can give them to make them legal to actually play. No idea how to play 40k.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 10, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
40K is much morer WYSIWYG oriented than Fantasy, at least when it comes to weapons, so it would be a good idea to check out equipment options before starting assembly. That said, stuff like rebreathers, knives and grenades are pretty much just there for prettiness, so no worries there.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on June 10, 2010, 05:26:09 PM
Hey!  Better make sure your get those frag grenades before you use them!  Or you will be paying for them!

:D

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 10, 2010, 06:07:20 PM
Can you just take units of veterans instead of infantry platoons? I don't know what i'm doing! Horray!

I want a sniper, because the model is cool.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on June 10, 2010, 07:22:31 PM
You can indeed take a squad of veterans instead of an infantry platoon. And the vets are cool. You can have them just as vets, or upgrade them three ways.
Forward Observers - The get camo cloaks that adds to their cover save plus Snare mines, that counts as defensive grenades.

Grenadiers - Every man and their moma gets carapace armour, a 4+ save.

Demolitions - Every man gets meltabombs and one man gets a demo charge.

If you wish, you can put all three upgrades on one unit to get one heck of elite squad but also an outrageously expensive one!  :icon_razz:

However, I might, just might do something like that one day because it would be awesome to make a bunch of totally overloaded chaps packing some special stealthy armour. Somewhat like the Virtrian dragoons that works together with the Taniths and helps saving their arse in the first novel.

And then, being able to cram in three special weapons plus a heavy weapon in one squad is just too good a thing to pass up.  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 10, 2010, 07:27:14 PM
Wasn't very impressed by the wargames factory guys.
I've pre-ordered a few boxes.  Looking forward to painting them and plan to use them for some skirmish gaming, yet might turn them into or part of a guard army over time.  Course can't use them for most tourney's, but oh well, I'm not a big tourney player anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on June 10, 2010, 07:44:27 PM
Anyone want one of these

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Warhammer-40K-Massive-Converted-Capitol-Imperialis-/260612690861?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cadba13ad
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on June 10, 2010, 07:57:50 PM
Looks amazing!

not $950 amazing though
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 10, 2010, 08:07:11 PM
What Finlay said.

I wouldn't shell out that kind of cash for it, but it's sure nice!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Valetus on June 10, 2010, 08:34:36 PM
Has anyone looked at these?

http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html (http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html)

The weapons/heads/backpacks would make a good set of non Cadian guardsmen I think! Combined with the Kommisar for the Krieg at least. But would certainly be very gritty, specifically the militia heads, gasmasks etc. They would be like Krieg but without the longcoats. Also, lasguns look rubbish.

Yeah the heads are well sized and a good buy
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 10, 2010, 09:40:06 PM
Grenadiers everytime! Proper elite troops. The only model i've made so far is a sniper, looks cool.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 17, 2010, 01:33:32 AM
Here are some interesting videos for folks to enjoy ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZd4pNXlRxY...player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfniAbzYX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfniAbzYX8)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 19, 2010, 12:28:19 PM
Looks very interesting! I fear that I will be sucked into it...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on June 19, 2010, 02:06:45 PM
It would suck me in if it weren't for Star Wars: The Old Republic. Which is looking to be a WoW killer.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 19, 2010, 02:08:06 PM
Everything is a WoW killer these days.

None of them seem to follow through though.

Personally I think the only thing that will "kill" WoW is age.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: shavixmir on June 19, 2010, 09:39:52 PM
Wow? Is that world of warcraft? That computer game where people spend hours online without masturbating.

Sheer and utter madness if you ask m..m..oooohhhh... me....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on June 20, 2010, 05:35:32 AM
Time will tell.

I used it more as an expression of how good it's looking rather than what my hopes for it are.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on June 20, 2010, 05:38:51 AM
This game looks messed up, more like a WOW HAMMER to me. I hope they dont do the forces of good and destruction in this one too.  :dry:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 29, 2010, 09:30:06 AM
So we are having a local, small and friendly 40k tournament on saturday in our gaming club. We are a whole of 4 competitors!!! :O

Anyways, its 1750pts and im fielding my Blood angels.

I havent tried out hte list i have made (it has varied alot) so i need some comments, although i wont be able to change much of it.

HQ:
Librarian in termi armour and stormshield. Has Sanguine sword and unleash rage.
Elites:
5 Assault termies. Sergeant has lightning claws, 4 thunderhammers. They ride in a Landraider Redeemer together with the librarian.
Honour guard / Sanguinary guard. Chapterbanner, blood champion, 1 extra power weapon. I dont know if these guys should be exchanged with sanguinary guard with chapterbanner. It would give me more powerweapons but lose furious charge.
Troops:
2x 10 Assault marines with 2 meltas and a powerfist on sarge
5 Death company with 1 powersword in razorback
Fast:
Baal predator with heavy bolters
Heavy:
5 devastators with 4 missile launchers.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 29, 2010, 09:37:23 AM
In my opinion Honor Guard trumps Sanguinary. FNP and FC. Don't forget to give 'em a Razorback though. I'd also consider running the Librarian with them wearing Power Armor, and assigning a SPriest to the Termies. Gives both squads FC!

What are those Devs doing in that list? Another Preddy would make much more sense.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 29, 2010, 09:44:35 AM
Well I bought a termie Lib model so he stays:P
The honour guard has jump packs btw... Im thinking of using them as a support role for the assault marines, so they get the bonusses aswell.
The Devs are there because of models restrictions. I dont have a second baal model..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 29, 2010, 10:12:59 AM
I don't really understand 40k rules yet but that list looks like you have hardly any guns. Which is awesome. Guns are for pansies.

I'm playing in a 1000 point cityfight campaign with IG and BFG combined into a super campaign. Since we play campaigns that are fluff driven I've managed to get a BFG fleet of 1 Imperial ship and the rest are Tau.

Here is my 1000 point list full of pansies.

HQ: Company Command Squad. Officer of the Fleet. Flamer 85. - The Officer of the Fleet is for a conversion. I'm writing fluff as well. I don't really like the whole Xenophobe thing so they come from the eastern fringes and have defected from the Imperium into the arms of the Tau. The officer is going to be a Tau guy. He is pretty much my only 'what!?' choice.

Troops: Platoon Command Squad. 30.

10 Guardsmen.. Flamer. 55

10 Guardsmen.  Flamer. 55

Heavy Weapons Squad. 3 AutoCannons 75

Veteran Squad. Grenadiers  Chimera 1 Flamer 1 Melta gun. 170 - Will be converted from Tau/Imperial bits. Might even include a couple of non human fantasy conversions. I saw an awesome 'lion' species converted out of beastmen heads.

Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel. Autocannon. Hunter Killer Missile. Camouflage Netting. 80 - I like sentinels. The model is cool.

Heavy: Leman Russ Squadron.

3 Leman Russ Battle Tanks.  Battle Cannon. Heavy Bolters. 450 - They don't have sponsons because the model i'm using is a German WW2 Tank that is 2/3rds off. 3 Leman Russ's for Ģ30!

1000
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 29, 2010, 10:16:38 AM
What kind of tank....a StugIII or Panzer IV G
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 29, 2010, 10:20:17 AM
Kampfpranzer Leopard.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 29, 2010, 10:21:24 AM
Kampfpranzer Leopard.

You think WW2 was still going in the 1970s?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 29, 2010, 10:21:56 AM
Don't care it was in the WW2 section! It's a cheap tank.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 29, 2010, 10:24:16 AM
 :biggriin:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 29, 2010, 10:46:10 AM
He has probably seen A Bridge Too Far ! :D

But it ... has a lot of leman russes for a 1k game...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 29, 2010, 11:56:29 AM
They shouldn't be Ģ9.99 then!

It's a money thing, 150 points is just too good. It takes up space without costing me Ģ15 for 10 guys worth 55 points.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 29, 2010, 11:59:20 AM
Useless panda.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on June 29, 2010, 01:17:36 PM
A Panda with a sense of money. I love your approach in using military scale models, Mogsam. More variety, less cost.  :icon_mrgreen:

Would you mind put up some pics of your tanks?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on June 29, 2010, 04:34:10 PM
All this talk of those beautiful tanks is making me wanna start an Imperial Guard army.  :icon_confused:

Stop it right now.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mogsam on June 29, 2010, 09:21:42 PM
When i'm finished i'll post pictures of the tank and my troopers. At the moment two of them are in pieces with the other 600 points of my army. The other is being painted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on June 30, 2010, 10:45:04 AM
Tanks are just a good in an Ork list.  And Stompas... mmmmmm.... STOMPAS!

STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 01, 2010, 11:55:59 PM
I don't really understand 40k rules yet but that list looks like you have hardly any guns. Which is awesome. Guns are for pansies.
:icon_lol: :icon_lol:

If I had more sig space, maybe I'd quote this one. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 02, 2010, 03:56:53 PM
I made an alternative list for the tournament tomorrow!

Now i just have to choose...
New list

HQ:
Reclusiarch - goes with DC

Honour guard with blood champion and chapterbanner and jump packs.

Elites: 5 Assault termies, 4 with hammers and shields.. These guys are deepstriking?

Troops:
2x 10 assault marines with 2 meltas and one powerfist.

8 Death company. 1 with a powersword. Riding a landraider.

Fast:
2 Dakka baals


The first list was:
HQ:
Librarian in termi armour and stormshield. Has Sanguine sword and unleash rage.
Elites:
5 Assault termies. Sergeant has lightning claws, 4 thunderhammers. They ride in a Landraider Redeemer together with the librarian.
Honour guard / Sanguinary guard. Chapterbanner, blood champion, 1 extra power weapon. I dont know if these guys should be exchanged with sanguinary guard with chapterbanner. It would give me more powerweapons but lose furious charge.
Troops:
2x 10 Assault marines with 2 meltas and a powerfist on sarge
5 Death company with 1 powersword in razorback
Fast:
Baal predator with heavy bolters
Heavy:
5 devastators with 4 missile launchers.


Thoughts:
The new list has more tanks. But the deepstriking termies seems hard to use properly now that they dont have a ride, which I dont have any experience in.
Right now im thinking of staying with the old list.. mostly because those models... but dno.
I could exchange the assault termies in the new list with vanguard veterans and give them a powerfist and some powerswords and jump packs. And give out some powerweapons here and there.
I just loooove those termie models.. and i have them painted :p so I really want them in the list.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 02, 2010, 04:14:02 PM
Ok, my first thought ... stop playing 40K, play WFB instead. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 02, 2010, 04:22:38 PM
Im gonna play 8th on sunday :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 02, 2010, 04:26:04 PM
That'll be a good day for such, celebrating the fourth while freeing yourself from 40k rule. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 02, 2010, 04:31:03 PM
Thats actually true.. i havent played fantasy for a year or so... half a year at least.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: 132nd on July 06, 2010, 09:18:11 PM
  I play fantasy alot.  But, I also love 40k.  So far I have plans to make the following armies:

  Space Marine Battle Company (half-way finished with this one.  Need transports and 3 more tactical squads.)
  All infantry Imperial Guard (Using Wargames Factory Great Coat Troopers)
  Daemonhunters Inquisition.  (Almost finished)
  Witchhunters Inquisition. (Not started)
   Artillery Company of Imperial Guard (2 veteran squads and 9 basilisks.  Only using this in Apocalypse games)
  Space Marine Terminator Detachment (20 terminators.)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 06, 2010, 09:56:22 PM
All infantry Imperial Guard (Using Wargames Factory Great Coat Troopers)
Their Storm Troopers are close to being released.  I've got some on order, and with them being created, I'm seriously contemplating using them for Imperial Guard as well.  Won't be able to use them in a GW tourney, but oh well.

By the way, it seems liek these are going to be a big hit, and it seems like a heavy weapons/command sprue will be following at some point as well.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: 132nd on July 06, 2010, 10:53:34 PM
  Yeah.  I've been reading over the Wargames Factory forum over there.  (I'm 132nd over there too) 

  I've always been interested in Wargames Factory, having been contemplating on starting an Ancient Republican Roman Army alongside some Jewish Revolt Zealots.  And some Germans thrown in for good measure. 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 07, 2010, 01:02:46 AM
This is the 40K thread, and there's a WF thread here as well, so I'll save most comments regarding other figures they are producing for over there, but I've got my first box of the late republic/early imperial romans already (1 box each of infantry & cavalry), with intentions of making some of Rome's enemies at some point as well. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 18, 2010, 08:19:21 AM
I just played an apocalypse battle with 10k on each side, both with 4 players..


It sucked..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 18, 2010, 08:21:18 AM
I don't like games that size very much either. 3K is about the limit of what I really enjoy. Bigger than that, and it becomes work.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 18, 2010, 08:41:08 AM
Yes, I agree Aldaris...

details wiill come later.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 18, 2010, 09:28:46 AM
I dont even know what details to write. One of the opposing players had only brought a titan, tower of skulls, plague tower, dooms day device and some planes.

The rest of us brought normal stuff, besides a baneblade and shadowsword... we got owned...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on July 18, 2010, 10:46:46 AM
When I drop more than 2 stompas, the same sort of thing happens to me (nobody can handle it).  You need to coordinate with your partners in a 6000 point and up game.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 18, 2010, 11:46:39 AM
Yes one guy also suggested that but we didnt reach any consensus before the game... so it became meh.. Otherwise it would have been fun!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on September 30, 2010, 04:20:49 PM
Some lovely thredomancy right here because I see no need to start a new thread.

I have for the first time ever, managed to paint, from scratch, a 40K tank all by myself. My old lovely IG tanks were painted by a local talent whom I paid lots of green for lovely work. This time I wanted to tackle the boring chore of painting one myself - and now that I am done, what the hell was I thinking? Painting tanks isn't that boring and can be a good change from models such as terminators, Ogres or humans. Yes I know that it is black but it is a tank!

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Black%20Legion/raider1.jpg)

Very proud of this, mostly because it is a tank. A tank God damn it!  :closed-eyes:

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR (and his gay space marines in blue)!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on September 30, 2010, 05:25:29 PM
Its black legion dude! Its not hard to paint when its 80% done when its primed  :icon_rolleyes:

With that said, good job! :eusa_clap:




On another note, im having new army syndrome this month. First it was the new High elves but now im having feelings for tyranids, just because they are so awesome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on September 30, 2010, 07:59:05 PM
Nice stuff, Shadowlord. And Black Legion suits you perfectly!  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Michael W on September 30, 2010, 09:12:49 PM
Very pretty.  Wish I had the talent to do vehicles right.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 01, 2010, 09:24:31 AM
On another note, im having new army syndrome this month.
You too? After having seen the new upcoming Dark Eldar, I felt an itch I plan to scratch around christmas.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on October 03, 2010, 03:41:42 PM
No screw the Dark Eldar. Im wanting the Tyranids more and more for each day!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 03, 2010, 05:28:51 PM
No screw the Dark Eldar. Im wanting the Tyranids more and more for each day!
To be honest, I'd rather screw Dark Eldar than Tyranids.  :wink: The new Lelith Hesperax model is quite yummy for example.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Valetus on October 03, 2010, 11:07:06 PM
Imperial Guard is a difficult army to play, there are so many options and its a tricky balance between expendable man power and big guns.

Does anyone else notice though that most 40k armies tend to be played as either purely shooting or purely assault? The game is really not much good in a pitched battle, objective taking is much more competitive, hence quite a different game from fantasy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on October 03, 2010, 11:16:07 PM
To be honest, I'd rather screw Dark Eldar than Tyranids.

What? Even with all those mis-shapen purple heads?






Sorry, childish
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 04, 2010, 12:19:26 AM
Does anyone else notice though that most 40k armies tend to be played as either purely shooting or purely assault?
I always prefer a nice mix of shooty and assault elements if my army is up to it. Which means that my CSM are mixed while my IG is pretty much pure shooting/psyker.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 04, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
I am doing a pure Black Templar army with extra banner bearers for Marks but no real loyalists.

I intend to do an Empire styled all around army that can face anything.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 05, 2010, 02:30:52 PM
.... AAAnd The new Dark Eldar are up for preorder. I am pleasantly surprised by the prices! 15 pounds for boxes of 10 Kabbalite Warriors or 10 Wytches? That's pretty reasonable.

Also: Lelith. Wow. 4 profile Attacks that ignore AS, and she gets an extra attack for each point her WS is higher than her opponents. And her WS is 9. So if she charges a squad of marines that would be 10 attacks.  :icon_eek:

I like her.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 05, 2010, 02:41:56 PM
with no armour?


I would say shoot her...shoot her fast...with a double tap.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 05, 2010, 02:58:54 PM
That has always been the weakness of DE in general and Wytches in particular. They get a 4++ save in cc, but outside of it they only have a 6+. Still, good old Lelith should do pretty well leading a Wytch squad. I also like the fact that all splinter weapons now count as poisoned, so they wound everything on a 4+. Which make splinter rifles pretty damn fine standard guns in my opinion. Not as good against low T targets as a bolter, but much more versatile.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 05, 2010, 03:02:12 PM
hmmm how about we try a small 40k game next time you come around I still havenīt played a single game in the latest edition.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 05, 2010, 04:34:33 PM
Sure man, no problem! I hardly played any 40k this year besides a tournament at the very beginning, so it's definitely time.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: oak_prince on October 05, 2010, 06:03:13 PM
I've been generally unhappy with the game's direction as of late. You have 3 scenarios. 2 involve capturing objectives with your troops(not your elites or the fast guys who can easily get to said objectives). Then you have the 3rd scenario, where every unit, from a guardsmen squad to a terminator squad is one "kill" point. Not only does this favor Marines(a small elite force whose units auto-rally) but it punishes you for taking the expendable troops you need to capture the objectives.

Between IG armies with minimal infantry(3 tanks per heavy support slot  :icon_mad:), assaulting deepstrikers(BA), armies that can take 4 HQs(SW) or get free HQs that come with squads(BA) the current environment just seems so alien to me, you know?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on October 05, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
Right you buggers, you've done it. Because of all your talk of stompas and tanks and deepstrike maneuvers, I now feel the need to do a 40k army. I was just talking to somebody about traitor guard as it happens....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 05, 2010, 07:03:36 PM
I've been generally unhappy with the game's direction as of late. You have 3 scenarios. 2 involve capturing objectives with your troops(not your elites or the fast guys who can easily get to said objectives). Then you have the 3rd scenario, where every unit, from a guardsmen squad to a terminator squad is one "kill" point. Not only does this favor Marines(a small elite force whose units auto-rally) but it punishes you for taking the expendable troops you need to capture the objectives.

Between IG armies with minimal infantry(3 tanks per heavy support slot  :icon_mad:), assaulting deepstrikers(BA), armies that can take 4 HQs(SW) or get free HQs that come with squads(BA) the current environment just seems so alien to me, you know?
The system isn't perfect, but it is, in my opinion, by far the best iteration of 40K yet. You actually have to balance your armies. You have to take troops choices. You must have some mobile troops choices to capture objectives, you can't just turtle. You must make a decision between mass small, flexible units that will yield lots of KP and more stable, bigger units. I love it. And pretty much all 40K players I know consider it far superior to 4th edition.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 05, 2010, 07:26:09 PM
Looks like someone missed Planetstrike, Battlemissions, Cities of Death and Apokalypse...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 05, 2010, 07:39:27 PM
One of the new Mandrakes. Arr!

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg)

And the new Urien Rakarth:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg)

This looks to be one sweet, sweet release.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on October 05, 2010, 08:20:37 PM
yeh, I really like them. and the 15 for 10 pricing is at least reasonable, as opposed to the 25 for 10 goldswords, goldigors, goldguard and goldlions.

Those had made me worried 25 for 10 was going to be the new base cost, which would have priced me out.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 05, 2010, 08:26:04 PM
I think I will start with a comfy 500 points or so once I'm reasonably satisfied wtih my Skaven. Something like 2 Raider squads of some kind and a Ravager. On another note: they're also apparently getting friggin' FIGHTER JETS. And BOMBERS. Not skimmers, flyers.

 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on October 05, 2010, 10:26:09 PM
40k seems to be cheaper than Fantasy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: oak_prince on October 06, 2010, 05:15:39 AM
Looks like someone missed Planetstrike, Battlemissions, Cities of Death and Apokalypse...

I certainly wish people played those around here. You're right though, it's hardly GW's fault that most people around here want to just line their guys up and chase objectives instead of playing themed games.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: oak_prince on October 06, 2010, 05:16:20 AM
40k seems to be cheaper than Fantasy.

Not after you throw in a transport for every squad.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 06, 2010, 07:50:40 AM
You're right though, it's hardly GW's fault that most people around here want to just line their guys up and chase objectives instead of playing themed games.

Those books are the best thing about 40K just like the Warhammer Battles section in 8th is the best part about fantasy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 06, 2010, 08:40:57 AM
IG is awesome sauce for the mission based 40k

you roll the missions with killpoints just merge your squads to 2*50 soldiers

you roll the mission for capturing you have easily 10 units units of 10 soldiers each to spread out on the battlefield.

Well all I talk is theory but I think IG is one of the top dogs and it makes sense to field as many meat bags as possibl.E!




Those Mandrakes look.....awesome!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 06, 2010, 12:27:07 PM
with no armour?

That's part of her appeal...


One of the new Mandrakes. Arr!

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg)

And the new Urien Rakarth:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg)

This looks to be one sweet, sweet release.

Agreed!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 06, 2010, 12:28:45 PM
They look more like "terror causing evil guys you donīt want to join your Imperial slay an alien party" than clowns.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 06, 2010, 12:41:43 PM
They're not supposed to be clowns. That would be the Harlequins. Which are also in the Codex, supposedly with identical stats to the ones in the Craftworld Eldar one.

 http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251719_99110104113_Harlequintroupemain_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251719_99110104113_Harlequintroupemain_873x627.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 06, 2010, 01:01:11 PM
I like the whole Harlquin cult in the Eldar Background as the laughing god is my absolute favorite (too bad Loec has so little fluff in fantasy).

But I meant the old mandrakes

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250305_99060112023_DEldarMandrakesmain_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250305_99060112023_DEldarMandrakesmain_873x627.jpg)

These guys qualify as clowns in my book

as do these

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250300_99060112021_DEgrotesquesmain_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250300_99060112021_DEgrotesquesmain_873x627.jpg)

just not evil enough....more comedy factor.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 06, 2010, 03:01:17 PM
Yep, the old DE range is pretty horrendous, with few exceptions (like the Raider and the Talos). But the new one really makes up for it.

Been keeping track of the news on Warseer, and some new interesting tidbits have arrived. Namely, your Archon can take a retinue that will be made up of different specialists. One of those can give the entire retinue poison that wounds on a 2+. Combine that with the Archons Huskblade (PW, instant death) and you have one scary, scary Character and MC killer.

Also, there will apparently be 2 versions of grotesques, one big, one small. The big ones will be in Ogryn territory with S5 T5 3W and FNP. Ouch! Apparently they need guidance from an IC though, because if they don't have that they can just die on a failed LD test (while lashing out to the nearest quad while doing so).

The Mandrakes apparently have infiltrate and stealth, and being the half DE, half Demons that they are can shoot fire from their hands at their opponents with S4 AP4 Assault 2. Ouch again.

I also like the pain token mechanism. If a DE unit kills off another unit, it gets a pain token. 1st token gives FNP, second one gives furious charge, third one gives fearless. There are alternative ways to build those tokens up as well, Haemunculi for example give squads they join a free one, and there is a Talos variant that can bestow pain tokens to nearby DE units when it kills stuff. There might be more, but this is already pretty huge. Standard Warriors alone with FNP would be a lot more threatening suddenly. And on Wytches it would be simply awesome. 4++ followed by FNP in cc is going to keep those gladiators alive for a looonng time.

And fnally, good ole Asdrubael Vect is rumored to be able to steal the initiative on a 4+. Neat.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 06, 2010, 03:07:58 PM
I think the long waiting game has paid of for the DE players..Kudos.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 06, 2010, 03:42:16 PM
Caertainly looks like it has. When I started out with 40K the friend I was playing with only had DE, so this was the only army I played against for quite some time, and I was usually able to totally stomp it with my CSM (with a few notable exceptions). Now it looks like they will finally be really good, and really good looking to boot. Or as someone put it on Warseer: "less like a glass cannon, more like a glass nuke!"
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 06, 2010, 07:08:28 PM
I have always hoped they removed the pointless DE from the 40K universe.

But then Jes was born, and now there is a new range released soonish.

I have been whipping my back hard daily for my former foolishness.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 06, 2010, 07:45:31 PM
Sprue pictures: http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=23406

The details are fantastic.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on October 07, 2010, 11:55:48 AM
I've just ordered my new IG Sentinel Titan .................


(http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2005/nn20050518f2a.jpg)

STory:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?nn20050518f2.htm
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 07, 2010, 12:10:16 PM
Hmmmm tough choice love bot or this one?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 07, 2010, 01:58:45 PM
This one.

You can take women as a substitute for lovebot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on October 07, 2010, 02:00:58 PM
You can take women as a substitute for lovebot.
But aren't those prone to glitches and bugs? I'm sure there was a thread in the BT about this at some point.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 07, 2010, 02:37:49 PM
I had very nearly posted something inappropriate. I get the feeling that some people want me to get banned...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 07, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
I don't hate you that much.

Just finished this lord and in spite crappy pics, this is my favorite model (not paintjob).

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Black%20Legion/lord1.jpg)

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Black%20Legion/lord2.jpg)

Some appropriate music I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvssNCZ5NeE

40K rawks! (yes I am 40 years of age).

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 07, 2010, 10:02:03 PM
Great stuff as usual!

Though if I may say so, the fur (?) on the back could use another level of highlights; then it would match the painting quality of the rest of the model better.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 08, 2010, 12:13:47 AM
I swear, the Space Marines are a curse upon me, destined to follow me until I die.

Just when I thought I'd got rid of them once and for all, I jumped on a cheap unboxed Tactical Squad, and caught of a glimpse of the FW Raven Guard models.

Here we go again......  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Warlord on October 08, 2010, 12:44:00 AM
I've just ordered my new IG Sentinel Titan .................


(http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2005/nn20050518f2a.jpg)

STory:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?nn20050518f2.htm

THAT IS AWESOME!
And not that expensive either, at only 275k UK Pounds, or 444k AUD.

If I was some mega rich guy who bought expensive Sports cars, I would so splash out and get one of these.

How great would it be if someone opened a 'Paintball' park that featured these.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 08, 2010, 01:55:33 AM
How great would it be if someone opened a 'Paintball' park that featured these.

Great, but so incredibly expensive...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 10, 2010, 03:28:30 PM
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee6/MintyM15/DSCF1036.jpg)


oh god what

They're back.....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on October 11, 2010, 09:17:38 AM
I think it is awesome that you go imperial fists as they are one of the orders you donīt see that often.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on October 11, 2010, 10:39:28 AM
My son approves of Imperial fist too. He is proud of his Lysander miniature and the ranks of yellow marines. And Lysander is a beast... brrr...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 11, 2010, 08:10:59 PM
I....erm....I'm not painting them as Imperial Fists.

That's a white undercoat, under an IMMENSLEY yellow lightbulb....

Pics incoming this even of a test model, perhaps, and all shall be revealed....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 15, 2010, 07:20:53 PM
Yep, most definitely not an Imperial Fist. And finished, obviously.

(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee6/MintyM15/DSCF1038.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on October 15, 2010, 11:05:09 PM
Hmm... interesting. Deathwatch?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 15, 2010, 11:12:35 PM
Nah, DIY chapter.

They need a name though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Warlord on October 16, 2010, 03:28:52 AM
Nah, DIY chapter.

DIY Chapter is great. Good on you.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on October 17, 2010, 04:32:07 PM
The mold lines! The mold liiines!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on October 17, 2010, 04:32:41 PM
Shut your face patsy.

Yes. Your face, not your mouth, your entire face.

After years of playing this game, I have only just started even giving moldlines a cursory once over with the knife.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 17, 2010, 04:49:05 PM
After years of playing this game, I have only just started even giving moldlines a cursory once over with the knife.

You not only suck, you also brag about it.

Impressive!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on October 17, 2010, 04:50:09 PM
You not only suck

And for an affordable price!

Oops we're going back table!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on October 17, 2010, 04:58:33 PM
Well, I won't be going to you anymore now that my face is on shutdown.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on October 17, 2010, 05:04:09 PM
You weren't one of my better clients, so you wont be missed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on October 17, 2010, 05:12:19 PM
Was it the taste? I should probably eat more fruit anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 17, 2010, 06:10:01 PM
The mold lines! The mold liiines!

Not visible or noticable when actually playing the game, so unimportant to me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 17, 2010, 06:28:31 PM
Not visible or noticable when actually playing the game, so unimportant to me.

Nor is dormant herpes during sex, but you don't want that do you?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on October 17, 2010, 06:37:17 PM
Mold lines ruin everything. On another note, i am playing a 1500 point game against dark angels. Will report later.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on October 17, 2010, 06:39:14 PM
Mold lines ruin everything. On another note, i am playing a 1500 point game against dark angels. Will report later.

I wish you'd lose.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 17, 2010, 06:45:30 PM
Not visible or noticable when actually playing the game, so unimportant to me.

Nor is dormant herpes during sex, but you don't want that do you?

Well, no, but that's an entirely different situation.

Putting condoms on your army will not help with mould lines....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 17, 2010, 06:49:08 PM
Mold lines ruin everything. On another note, i am playing a 1500 point game against dark angels. Will report later.

I wish you'd lose.

Aren't you a bundle of joy today? :icon_biggrin:

Putting condoms on your army will not help with mould lines....

On that matter, I've never understood why "Trojans" is a condom brand. It's a pretty unfortunate name, no? "Trojan Horse" - a device used to sneak into an otherwise well-guarded fortress, where it released lots of seamen?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on October 17, 2010, 06:51:03 PM
I agree with Philly, mold lines ruin everything. Your last relationship? Mold lines. The snowman you built? Mold lines.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on October 17, 2010, 07:02:20 PM
Your last relationship?

What the hell is one of those.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on October 17, 2010, 07:15:03 PM
Your last relationship?

What the hell is one of those.
It's that thing Shadowlord does when he comes over biweekly and does things for money. You know.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on October 17, 2010, 10:06:07 PM
This is both awesome and back table material.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on October 17, 2010, 10:08:01 PM
Well, no, but that's an entirely different situation.

Both still irks me so they aren't all that different.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on October 17, 2010, 10:11:40 PM
This is both awesome and back table material.

...because 40k is too brutal?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on October 18, 2010, 02:48:24 AM
No it is all over the place.

I won the game handily. Orks are fun.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on November 12, 2010, 07:05:38 PM
I do hope this is a joke because I can not for the love of the chaos Gods understand why this is being released:

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk57/GKTerminators/Miscelanious/Stormraven.jpg)

Unless they used a plastic Thunderhawk* when converting a stormraven.

Deliver us Jes from this madness!!!

* Rumours is that this coming summer is about flying stuff for 40K.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 12, 2010, 07:23:07 PM
Oii! Do you love GW? If you do, shut up, pay up and smile happily carrying three of those babies home to your storage, Shadowlord.  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on November 12, 2010, 07:39:33 PM
They just released the dreamy steamy DE and you expect me to endorse that abomination?  ::heretic::

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 13, 2010, 12:30:55 AM
Its seriously ugly
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Michael W on November 13, 2010, 01:17:37 AM
Six pages of griping on B&C so far today.  Lol.  And somebody's photoshopped version - with the turret/intake replaced with a razorback top - seems to be getting considerably better reviews.  Still, the thing is hideous.  My poor Grey Knights are crying that they'll be walking into battle for yet another six years, cause there's no way I'm letting them fly in that abomination.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on November 13, 2010, 03:59:33 PM
You moaning minnies ........ it's fantastic .........


... straight out of Star Wars meets ....... Thunderbirds.

 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 13, 2010, 04:12:34 PM
DAS EGG WITH WINGS.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 13, 2010, 09:27:23 PM
Alright! I donīt think it looks half bad. Space marine stuff ainīt supposed to look as sexy as eldar stuff anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 13, 2010, 09:28:13 PM
DAS EGG WITH WINGS has persuaded me to seriously consider Blood Angels.

It started due to someone comparing DAS EGG WITH WINGS with a HIND Gunship. I love HIND Gunships. Even if DAS EGG WITH WINGS isn't one, I'm now hooked.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on November 13, 2010, 11:18:33 PM
Not so bad in this pic:

(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/11/11/154621_sm-Digital%20Art%2C%20Stormraven.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 13, 2010, 11:21:06 PM
Well, that is a photoshop where it's hugely modified.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on November 13, 2010, 11:43:44 PM
I think thats rather flash to be honest, I like it. Im not much of a 40k player, what is it?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 13, 2010, 11:57:07 PM
Seriously... the real model looks like something that would fall down, with its nose first as soon as it leaves the hangar of a strike cruiser.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 14, 2010, 11:07:13 AM
I think it looks so cool I would like it as an alternative Valkyrie for my Guardsmen.  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on November 14, 2010, 12:46:39 PM
Seriously... the real model looks like something that would fall down, with its nose first as soon as it leaves the hangar of a strike cruiser.

Seems to hover more than fly... The original pic is still horrendous.

But it is a sign that the Thunderhawk is out next summer.

50% of GW's customers just wet their pants when I typed that.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 14, 2010, 07:33:10 PM
I farth on thunderhawks! Just give me new ork stuff for non-apokalypze games. Like rules for using fighta-bommaz.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on November 14, 2010, 07:58:45 PM
Next summer is all about Flyers for 40k.

No doubt the popular Orks will get some.

I know Eldar will.  ::heretic::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 15, 2010, 09:15:47 AM
Woohoo! Iīm in GREEN heaven!  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on November 24, 2010, 11:03:22 PM
I finally converted my Terminators to have their proper armaments today. Had to improvise two Combiplasmas and a Combimelta since the box only includes one combimelta and the heavy weapon options. I think it turned out rather well, and I even got around to start painting them (and I finished a unit of rat ogres...).  A good evening of hobby stuff.

I have hardly played any 40K this year, it feels good to finally do some stuff for those armies again.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 25, 2010, 04:35:27 PM
I haven't even looked at my Much-better-than-Aldaris' Chaos Marine army in ages.

What I do know is my Terminators were correct from the start.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 25, 2010, 05:52:46 PM
Just bought the Dark eldar codex today. :D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 28, 2010, 02:39:49 PM
I might accidently get that too...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 28, 2010, 02:48:38 PM
Emperor help me if I also begin that army....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 28, 2010, 02:56:09 PM
I think I will do.

Just so I have two armies better than Aldaris.   :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on November 28, 2010, 03:19:17 PM
I would start with one to begin with...
 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 28, 2010, 03:29:15 PM
Haha :p
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 29, 2010, 05:40:36 PM
I saw them Dark eldar boxes up close and I was almost pulled into the Commoragh. Luckily, I got shagged by a unit of new Dragon princes instead.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on November 29, 2010, 06:58:44 PM
I guess they...

charged right on in.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on November 29, 2010, 08:19:39 PM
Kinda, I am still a bit sore but it is still satisfying...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on November 29, 2010, 08:25:24 PM
Well I finally broke down and actually bought models for playing 40K.  Spacewolves, no big surprize I suppose really, semi bionic vikings in space with multiple genetic enhancements.  I've started off with assembling 3 units of greyhunters 2 pigtanks and a raider.  Any advice for which special weapons I should put into the units of hunters? 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 29, 2010, 08:43:34 PM
Meltas.
powerfist and/ mark of wulfen, i have no idea how their restrictions for that work out.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on November 29, 2010, 08:47:31 PM
First off: do not mix roles, for example: never pick a melta and a flamer. No matter what you shoot at, one of your specials will be wasted on something it isn't suited for. Always go for uniform loadout within a squad. If you want to do a generalist approach, I would propably make one squad with meltas, one with flamers, one with plasma. That will give you decent all round firepower against all possible targets. Use the option of the sarges to have a powersword or fist, it really raises the combat potential of your squads significantly. When in doubt, go for the fist. Do not outfit your sarges with plasma pistols. Nothing is more embarassing than losing your expensive power fist sarge to an overheat.

Weapons choices also depend a lot on what you want the squad to do, and that means taking the (future) rest of your army into account. Basically you need to be able to deal with light vehicles, heavy vehicles (especially AV14 needs to be considered), numerous light infantry, monstrous creatures and elite infantry. Pretty much all 40k units fall into one of those categories, and you need to have some sort of answer for them. So if you say you'll cover all your anti-tank with heavy support, you can leave infantry killing to other parts of your army. My point is that it is hard to give advice without knowing your overall concept, where you want to go with this force. That is why I recommended the above setup as a generalist approach that will do decent in all areas: you have flamers to deal with infantry, plasma to deal with elite infantry, light vehicles and monsters and meltas as specialist tank killers (the current metagame tends to favor the melta over the other specials, but I am not convinced. I still make good use of plasma guns). The power fist supplements pretty much all of those roles nicely. On second thought, you might want to consider a power sword for the flamer squad, given what you will be shooting at with them most of the time and the fact that the power sword gives you one more attack (a fist does not synergize with a pistol for the additional hand weapon bonus).

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on November 29, 2010, 09:28:33 PM
Cool about what I was thinking of.  It seems the Hunters are resticted quite a bit in comparison the the other astartes chapters as to what they can take for special weapons, rocket launchers FRex are not even an option, only fangs can be trusted with those.  Would you recommend a melta and power weapon on the same model or would you split those features up I'm leaning towards splitting them up.  I've also modded a Lysander model to be my very own Arjac Rockfist, for when I get going on the wolf guard. 

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on November 29, 2010, 10:02:53 PM
Cool about what I was thinking of.  It seems the Hunters are resticted quite a bit in comparison the the other astartes chapters as to what they can take for special weapons
Restricted? The fact that they can take two specials instead of the usual special/heavy combo makes them - in my eyes - one of the most awesome troops choices in the game! A heavy weapon trooper wants to stay put and shoot, a special weapon trooper wants to move around to engage. The usual marine solution is splitting up into combat squads. Which is fine and dandy, but leaves you with just 5 bodies in a squad - very vulnerable to just about anything. With space wolves, you have dedicated units designed to cover different assignments. Longfangs are the heavy weapons troopers par excellence - you can split your fire and even get countercharge thrown in for good measure! And the hunters are there to take the initiative - move forward and engage at close range. Unlike regular marine armies you do not have to compromise between those roles. Which is a big, big plus, not a disadvantage.
 :wink:

As far as I know (I do not have the 'dex) you cannot have a melta and powerweapon on the same model - only troopers can carry meltas, only the sarge can get a power weapon. Even if you could I would not recommend it because of the way wound allocation works in 40k.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 29, 2010, 11:22:51 PM
Yes space wolves is one of the best armies out there in my super non biased opinion.


 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on November 30, 2010, 09:58:52 PM
looking at the codex and the phrase is "one grey hunter may" except for the "if squad number's 10 models a second grey hunter may..."  so it seems you can if you wish have a mark of the wulfen, power weapon bearing, meltagun carrier if you wish, besides the wolf guard squad leader I mean. and the choices are flamer, melta, and plasma guns (max 2 in 10 models) as well as a single plasma pistol, single standard, single mark of the wulfen, and single powerweapon/powerfist. 

I'm really liking these guys, about the only thing I could ask for more would be chaplains or those groovy miniguns on a tracked tripod deelies but I'll take my fangs as a nice trade off, and just get them a nice razorback instead.

I have an idea to do up a dreadnaught as Njall Stormcaller too, I think it would be a hella cool conversion.     
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on November 30, 2010, 10:23:05 PM
I think my friend said that you cant give the mark of wulfen to a powerfist guy... but i havent read it
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on December 01, 2010, 02:06:53 AM
I think you could maybe but it would be pointless.  It says the usual close combat attacks are replaced with D6+1 attacks and the attacks are made using the model's own claws and teeth, hence not affected by wargear.  (which is the "you could do it but why would you want to?" part)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 02, 2010, 03:58:00 PM
Ah that makes sense then!




Shit... I bought a box of kabalite warriors...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on December 02, 2010, 10:09:49 PM
For trophys on other army's vehicles?  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 03, 2010, 04:33:02 PM
unfortunately not. I think its all the massive exam assignments that make me buy stuff to do something else then write.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on December 03, 2010, 07:14:54 PM
Sounds bad... I think I would have problems fighting of the Wyches if I happened to look at the minis at the wrong moment.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 04, 2010, 01:31:15 PM
Wyches are nice! But I would prefer Wracks for the closecombat duties.

My friend just got his catachan army finished at Blue table painting:
http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=4090&view&offset=0 (http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=4090&view&offset=0)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 04, 2010, 03:56:38 PM
Not bad at all.

I must apologise Aldaris, I have succumbed. I no longer only idolise Chaos.

I'm with the Angels now...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 04, 2010, 05:07:02 PM
Yea i think they are cool too. The Hydras and manticores are supposed to be from some other crazy tank girl regiment. I like that idea. But there are some bad drybrushes there. Especially the infantry lasguns and such... only heavily drybrushed grey.



Blood angels or dark angels? :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 04, 2010, 05:19:54 PM
Actual Angels, not emos.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 05, 2010, 12:07:30 PM
@MrDWhitey: which ones are the emo angels? Both chapters are kinda tortured by their past...

After Hurenweibels interest I had a closer look at the Space Wolves codex, and I must say I've hardly ever seen a dex where it is so easy to come up with a super-nasty list...

3 squads of longfangs with 5 missile launchers each, 4 squads of grey hunters with 2 meltas, a fist and a rhino each (could also get drop pods instead), 5 terminator wolfguard with stormshields and a mix of thunderhammers, powerfists and chainfists in a LR redeemer, joined by a runepriest in Termie armor with 2 powers of choice. Rock hard 2000 points. And  that's after about 5 minutes of fooling around. Man, those dudes are nasty. Well, I knew they were nasty after playing against them a couple of times, but they make it surprisingly easy to come up with competitive army compositions.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 05, 2010, 02:32:32 PM
@MrDWhitey: which ones are the emo angels? Both chapters are kinda tortured by their past...

Dark Angels cut themselves, emo angels.

Blood Angels cut other people. Lots of times.

Plus all my Assault Marines will be made using Sanguinary Guard models.

 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 05, 2010, 03:22:53 PM
So the twillight marines? :P
Thats gonna be expensive.... so what are you gonna use as sanguinary guard ?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 05, 2010, 03:26:49 PM
 :icon_lol: "what are you gonna use as sanguinary guard"  :icon_lol:

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 05, 2010, 04:21:30 PM
A true Blood Angel player uses Sanguinary guard :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 05, 2010, 09:13:17 PM
What would you know, filthy furry.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 17, 2010, 11:41:58 PM
Still finetuning my new guard list - this is what I've come up with now. Regretfully took out the mortars in the infantry platoons, but was able to mount up all the vets in chimeras and give the CCS some decent firepower to boot for the points. Decent amount of mobile scorers, plenty of flamers and templates for crowd control, plenty of meltas, ACs and Lascannons to bust transports, some Plasma for monsters and the like. 10 vehicles and over 100 bodies. Let me know what you guys think.

***************  1 HQ  *************** 

CCS
- Meltabombs
- 3 x  Melta
+ Chimera
   - Multilaser
   - Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 140


***************  6 Troops *************** 

1st Infantry Platoon
   + PCS
      - 3 x Flamer
   + Infantry squad - Autocannon
   + Infantry squad - Autocannon
   + Infantry squad - Autocannon
 - - - > 225


2nd Infantry Platoon
   + PCS
      - 3 x Flamer
   + Infantry squad - Autocannon
   + Infantry squad - Autocannon
   + Infantry squad - Autocannon
 - - - > 225

1st Veterans
- 3 x Melta
+ Chimera
   - Multilaser
   - Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 155

2nd Veterans
- 3 x Melta
+ Chimera
   - Multilaser
   - Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 155

3rd Veterans
- 3 x Plasma Gun
+ Chimera
   - Multilaser
   - Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 170

4th Veterans
- 3 x Plasma Gun
+ Chimera
   - Multilaser
   - Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 170


***************  2 Fast Attack *************** 

1 Vendetta
 - - - > 130

1 Vendetta
 - - - > 130


***************  3 Heavy Support *************** 

Leman-Russ Squadron
   + - Leman Russ MBT
      - Heavy Bolter
      - Heavy Bolter Sponsons
 - - - > 170

Leman-Russ Squadron
   + - Leman Russ MBT
      - Heavy Bolter
      - Heavy Bolter Sponsons
 - - - > 170

Manticore Missile Tank
- Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 160

2000
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on December 18, 2010, 07:19:19 AM
@MrDWhitey: which ones are the emo angels? Both chapters are kinda tortured by their past...

After Hurenweibels interest I had a closer look at the Space Wolves codex, and I must say I've hardly ever seen a dex where it is so easy to come up with a super-nasty list...

3 squads of longfangs with 5 missile launchers each, 4 squads of grey hunters with 2 meltas, a fist and a rhino each (could also get drop pods instead), 5 terminator wolfguard with stormshields and a mix of thunderhammers, powerfists and chainfists in a LR redeemer, joined by a runepriest in Termie armor with 2 powers of choice. Rock hard 2000 points. And  that's after about 5 minutes of fooling around. Man, those dudes are nasty. Well, I knew they were nasty after playing against them a couple of times, but they make it surprisingly easy to come up with competitive army compositions.

My personal favorite were the 105 point Bikers with Storm Shields. T5, 3+/3+. Ouchers.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on December 18, 2010, 10:12:53 AM
That list is crazily nasty Aldaris :D Is it for tournament use?

I usually dont play 2000pts so I dont really have a feel of how other armies look at these points, but that is one large army with lots of firepower. Shame about the mortars though! They are so nice :(

I might steal this list and try it out :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 18, 2010, 10:31:46 AM
Yeah, that's propably something I'd play in a  tournament, but also in friendly play vs. dudes who also like competitive without resorting to soulless cookie-cutters. This should still be fun to play because it combines firepower with maneuverability and won't just be one of those "I don't move all game, I only roll dice" lists.

And I agree, it IS a shame about the mortars, but I just don't see where I could save 120 points to bring them back in.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on December 19, 2010, 10:15:34 AM
Nice list Aldaris, I might use it in the future  :icon_biggrin:

Q: Can Tankbustas, Burnas etc. take a trukk as a dedicaded transport? Because it doesn t say anything in their entry.

Also , Q: Some people say that it is not allowed to use Khorne bererkers and noise marines or plauge marines or thousand sons, in the same CSM army beacuse of God rivally, they say that that was errated but I can t find it anywhere, is it true?  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 19, 2010, 10:46:05 AM
Also , Q: Some people say that it is not allowed to use Khorne bererkers and noise marines or plauge marines or thousand sons, in the same CSM army beacuse of God rivally, they say that that was errated but I can t find it anywhere, is it true?  :icon_confused:

Bullshit. No restrictions rules-wise whatsoever. Didn't have to be errata'ed either, because it is abundantly clear from the dex that there are no restricitons.

HOWEVER, it is cool and fluffy to consider the rivalry between the gods and redtrict your choices accordingly. For example, my CSM force is led by either a General or a Demon Prince of Tzeentch. That means he welcomes the followers of Tzeentch, Khorne and Slaanesh into his warband, but will open fire on Nurgle worshippers on sight.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 19, 2010, 03:58:10 PM
It's also cool and fluffy to realise that the differing chaos forces will put aside their differences to kill the Imperium.

Jesus, people are still clinging to the hatred of each other stuff? They need a slap. A hard slap, infact, a beating, a good old fashioned take behind the goddamn shed and beaten with shovels for being so petty minded and ******************************************************

By the way, this is from someone running a Nurgle Chaos Space Marine force, and doesn't usually mix gods.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 19, 2010, 04:09:22 PM
Whut?! Why does someone who finds the fluff that has been established for a long time and kinda sticks to it for his own amusement have to be beaten with a shovel?

Do I need to pretend that the inter-gods animosity never existed to be cool? Or do I misunderstand you somehow here?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 19, 2010, 04:32:28 PM
You misunderstand.

I mean the same people as you. Those that not only proclaim the fluff loudly, but then denounce you, or even try to disallow you from mixing God forces.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 19, 2010, 04:36:41 PM
You misunderstand.

I mean the same people as you. Those that not only proclaim the fluff loudly, but then denounce you, or even try to disallow you from mixing God forces.

Ah! Fluff hooligans. Yes, those are annoying.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 19, 2010, 04:39:25 PM
And need to be beaten with shovels.

Also, I heard a while ago that fluffwises the 4 gods weren't all hatin' on each other. So....  :engel:

Know anything about it?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 19, 2010, 04:53:23 PM
No, I do not.

*nanananana*

Realm of Chaos books are the last word on this.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 19, 2010, 05:01:30 PM
Thought so, it was mentioned awhile ago on Warseer.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on December 19, 2010, 05:37:50 PM
Thanks guys. These people must get burned on the stake while getting beat up by shovels.
Thanks God, because I bought a lot of different patrons CSM and freaked out when tey told me that I cant use them.
About my other question?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 19, 2010, 05:43:36 PM
Your other question is a trifle to me and Aldaris.

a) We're righteously indignant about the other issue.

b) I don't play orks. I don't think he does either.  :biggriin:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 19, 2010, 05:55:47 PM
My colleague Mr. White has put this admirably. But I feel magnanimous, so I checked onlinecodex.

Answer: no, they can't. You can just use a battlewagon from a heavy support slot though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on December 19, 2010, 06:15:19 PM
OK Thanks  :biggriin: 

Weird though , it doesn t make a lot of sence,  but it doesn t need to.   :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 19, 2010, 06:27:19 PM
Orks actually do have a lot of transport options, and the battlewagon is just obscenely good for it's points. Huge transport capacity, AV 14 in the front and open topped. That means that if you put, say, burnaz in one, they can all shoot out. Can you say "15 flame templates"? Bosses can take them as dedicated transports as well, and bosses can be troops. You can also put deathrollaz on those for some brutal ramming action.

Hell, I just realized you could squeeze 9 battlewagons with deathrollaz into 2000 points, 6 with small boss units, 3 with burnaz. Ouch!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on December 20, 2010, 11:37:46 AM
And don t forget the Fostum Force Field mek  :icon_mrgreen:

I just find it weird because I think that tankbustas (lets say 5 of them) in a trukk , only105-110 points. They are a serious threat for any vehicle if they can move flat out. But no transport?   :icon_confused:

Because I play a really heavies list, I dont have that slot for the wagon, or the looted wagon.  :icon_cry:


Also, only two nob units can become troops via Warboss ( only two HQ), but still  8 Battlewagons are mean :icon_mrgreen: , even with regular boyz inside (since burnas are elites you must take nobz to buy Wagons)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on December 29, 2010, 03:56:04 PM
This one is for Aldaris, it'll help his playstyle.  :engel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUxjS-wOxNY


Edit: Oh lord, the Genestealer one is gold.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on December 29, 2010, 05:21:03 PM
I'm still trying to figure out if this is satire or serious.

OK, after having watched the magnetized dice thingy, I'm convinced he's joking.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on January 04, 2011, 06:46:08 PM
when you are sneaky it wins you games   :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 10, 2011, 09:50:46 AM
Grey knights are coming in April!

https://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300088a&amp;_requestid=284076 (https://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300088a&amp;_requestid=284076)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 10, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
I have mentioned this somewhere else but Eisenhorn is a really good book....it makes me want fielding an Inquisitor with retinue kicking some butt.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 10, 2011, 09:59:32 AM
@ McKNight: You beat me to it!
 :-D

Man, I'm looking forward to this.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 10, 2011, 10:18:42 AM
Im so happy :D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 10, 2011, 10:22:40 AM
So I know where my tax return will go.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 10, 2011, 10:37:30 AM
I will pick up my Sisters of Battle again. Repent!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 10, 2011, 10:39:05 AM
Those are being redone too, by the way.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on January 10, 2011, 02:23:05 PM
Hell yes!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 10, 2011, 07:23:42 PM
I heard something about it, but it seems to be in the future. But it is about time!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 10, 2011, 07:37:01 PM
Nothing concrete yet about the sisters, just talk about models being redone (and looking awesome). So they're propably still quite a long way off.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Novogord on January 15, 2011, 05:52:55 PM
Those are being redone too, by the way.
Grey knights will get redone I heard, maybe one Inquisitor codex?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 15, 2011, 07:58:07 PM
Dude:P

You should sign up for the newsletter from GW

Grey knights are coming in April :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Novogord on January 15, 2011, 11:48:46 PM
Dude:P

You should sign up for the newsletter from GW

Grey knights are coming in April :P
:icon_redface:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 16, 2011, 11:17:57 AM
Its okay :P
Just do 100 litanies of faith and you should be forgiven.


On a more 40k note:

I still claim that space wolves are the nastiest army out there.. My blood angels got pwned by them. Even though i was trying out the storm raven and new tactics.. but man.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 16, 2011, 08:12:53 PM
Bah, space wolves can't compete with a nice ork army loaded with nobz. Everyone someone tries to claim close combat apache marines rule I have a little chuckle.

On that note, I just got my 13000 point of orks. Three more kans and one of the new deff dredd.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 16, 2011, 09:58:18 PM
Stil, from what I hear here and there orks are not top dogs. They are good but they do not rule the tournaments like they used to.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 16, 2011, 10:37:40 PM
Nor should there be. That is what I love about 40k. There are four armies that can vote for the to slit and do so consistently. You can't say orks aren't one of the best. You honestly can't claim anyone is our isn't one of the best. But you can't claim orks aren't the nastiest close combat army in the game.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 16, 2011, 10:44:53 PM
Yes you can, you'd just probably be quite wrong.

I loved the early days of orks, everyone was still MEQ orientated, and the green tide annihilated their pitiful firepower in an instant.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 17, 2011, 06:06:00 PM
Sure orks can be nasty, but Wolves are just so much better ... meh
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 17, 2011, 06:27:30 PM
The fun part is you're both quite biased.

Give up now?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 17, 2011, 07:11:27 PM
Do you think any of them are likely to do that, Whitey? Philly never will until he personally have had his orkz pasted numerous times.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 17, 2011, 07:33:43 PM
"Agree to disagree" isn't hard.  :engel:

Of course PhillyT could just ban McKnight.





 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 17, 2011, 07:57:24 PM
 :eusa_wall:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 17, 2011, 09:13:08 PM
Since I am a WAAC man in real life, I am content to play Chaos Space Marines and let you runner ups squabble who has the cheesiest army in your gaming world.  :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 17, 2011, 09:23:18 PM
Since I am a WAAC man in real life, I am content to play Chaos Space Marines and let you runner ups squabble who has the cheesiest army in your gaming world.  :closed-eyes:

 :icon_lol:

I approve.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 17, 2011, 10:09:48 PM
I never claimed ork were better than space wolves. I said nobody can make a nastier cc army. In a game with tanks, that may not man much. Of course wth the errata on dethrollas, tanks aren't much of a problem.

I don't think there is a single killer army.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 17, 2011, 10:18:28 PM
So do I. By the way I am restarting Sisters of Battle. My WAAC plans for my life have yet to unfold but I have no need for it destroying my game. And regardless of my struggle with jobs and low income I still have the biggest choppa at home.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 17, 2011, 10:39:54 PM
Good point. Having large weapons at home is important.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on January 18, 2011, 06:10:59 AM
And regardless of my struggle with jobs and low income I still have the biggest choppa at home.

Maybe -  -  - maybe not  :icon_twisted:  your friendly neighborhood medieval arms collector who actually has a budget.

I almost certainly have more armour and a wider variety.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 18, 2011, 10:12:50 AM
And here I thought Imperial guard are the masters of close combat in 40k. 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 18, 2011, 11:12:22 AM
Lol!
Not by a long shot :P

But they are superb
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 18, 2011, 11:59:47 PM
Have you seen any pics of my bredische yet, Huren?  :engel:

You certainly got more armour at home, and probably variety... But you only need one good axe to do some proper crumpin!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 19, 2011, 06:17:34 AM
I think one glock is enough for that.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 19, 2011, 10:54:35 AM
New toys!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=13700028a (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=13700028a)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 19, 2011, 01:57:46 PM
The bird is still ugly, but those dreads looks really nice.

I mean really nice...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 19, 2011, 02:26:13 PM
Yep i totally agree with you!

I want one of each...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on January 19, 2011, 02:29:16 PM
They're just dreads. They all look the same only with varying amounts of bling.

And yes, those aircraft things are hideous and retarded.

1) They look like bricks.
2) Are those multi-meltas in the front? Short range weapons on a flying vehicle?
3) Bolter sponsons. Doesn't look like they're able to aim up or down. On a flying vehicle.
4) And THEN a huge bulky turret on top? Who designed these things?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on January 19, 2011, 02:32:12 PM
What galls me most is that it's seriously overarmed for a vehicle for that size which is supposed to carry troops, too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 19, 2011, 02:33:19 PM
Wrath, and Ire and Fury dislike your mocking and will ....kill you.

I alway like how the mightiest warriors of the galaxy (at least cc) are raging lunatics. Instead of guys that keep cool and do their drills.

Really cool is the magna grapple.....reminds me of magna doodle.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 19, 2011, 03:33:23 PM
Games wise, the multimelta is awesome, because the plane comes close..

and Gnu, it is a gunship afterall ;) But the bloodstrike missiles are only oneshot so doesnt really have that much firepower as soon as they have been used.

and the sponsons cost extra. making the price close to a landraider's.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on January 19, 2011, 03:36:21 PM
and Gnu, it is a gunship afterall ;)

Really? I thought it was supposed to be a dropship... Well, in that case, disregard that statement and make it "quite overarmed". :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 19, 2011, 04:35:36 PM
Much better :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Nicholas Bies on January 19, 2011, 04:51:49 PM
Eldar!


I recently aquired an Eldar army so I can learn to play the game better and hence teach the kids who come into the shop wanting to learn (not a single staff member here knows 40k and I'm the only one who knows fantasy...lol).

Anyway the army I got was this:

Autarch on bike
Farseer on bike

20 bikes with 4 cannons and 4 guys with swords which I can only think are meant to be warlocks....
10 Guardians with star cannon
9 Dire Avengers
6 vypers with star cannons
5 Silver lances
Wave Serpent
3 Falcons

at home I have 5 of the old Howling Banshees and 10 more Dire Avengers. I'm trying to think about how I want to expand and continue this army. any suggestions?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 19, 2011, 05:32:25 PM
Get some terminators with storm shields....I heard they work wonders in any army.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 19, 2011, 05:43:46 PM
 :icon_lol:

The Stormraven is the HIND of the 40k world. It's a ridiculously heavy armed troop carrier. And is ugly as sin.

I love the HIND. I kinda like the Stormraven.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on January 19, 2011, 05:59:31 PM
I think the chinook is uglier than the Hind still. It is like a flying banana.


Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 19, 2011, 06:09:33 PM
But the HIND have some serious hardware that the Chinnock does not have. This puts the HIND in the same category as the A-10 Thunderbolt, Dead ugly sexy. And the HIND can land troops aswell as provide their fire support.

The hind is, in truth, a flying APC, or rather a flying IFV. It can carry the infantry to the combat and protect it while it is doing it.

In the west, some Blackhawk version is what come closest to the mighty HIND. But still the concept of the HIND deliver more firepower. The west have mostly focused on helicopters doing a specific task. Apaches attacks all and sundry, Eurocopter Tiger specialize more in armed recon and antitank, the Rovilaak does the same. Blackhawk is mostly for transporting stuff and maybe provide some firecover while inserting and extracting.

The Hind does it all. Most likely including recon since the russians main approach to recon besides specialized recon squads is recon in force.
What the HIND also can do is something akin to Airborne armoured assault! They charge straight into the enemy position with their cargo of soldiers, guns blazing.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on January 19, 2011, 06:12:44 PM
...unless they get shot down with Stingers or Javelins or the rest.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 19, 2011, 06:38:23 PM
Sure, but that goes for Apaches too. They have still to try that stunt and I wonder... I mean, the US were truly scared of the idea of having Apaches taking part in the NATO war on Serbia due to the serbs having plenty of their own SAM:s and not least plenty of forests and hills were good ol proper 40mm AA  cannons could lurk.

Hence I tend to listen with selection when some US military fellow brag on about the invurnerable Apache.  :icon_razz:  It is mean, but there is just that much you can do to protect and armour a helicopter and keep it flying.

And still, the HIND is so much more Gung-Ho than anything the US got. Besides the Marines new combined AFV/Assault landing craft. Charging the beaches guns blazing will make even this swede able to cry Hoohaa and whatnot. If I ever get myself a boat that is what I want. A boat that becomes a troop carrying light tank on shore!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on January 19, 2011, 07:22:39 PM
Quote
Charging the beaches guns blazing will make even this swede able to cry Hoohaa
I bet you do that all the time.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Azyr on January 20, 2011, 03:08:05 PM
Hmm, not quite sold on the new models...just seems to be something lacking on it and just can't put my finger on it. I personally think the Librarian Dread should of been holding the force weapon instead of it shoved into a slot.
Got a feeling we will be seeing a few conversions tho.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on January 20, 2011, 03:32:33 PM
You devils. This thread has forced me to make a trip to Games Workshop Leeds to buy a box of Tactical Marines. Imperial Fists it is then....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on January 20, 2011, 05:23:58 PM
You devils. This thread has forced me to make a trip to Games Workshop Leeds to buy a box of Tactical Marines. Imperial Fists it is then....
Typical addict's excuse.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 20, 2011, 07:41:06 PM
My son, the proud fan of the Fistimarines applauds your desicion, Irresistible force. By they way, Lysander is a beast!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on January 20, 2011, 07:56:25 PM
Im about 2 hours into painting the test piece and I still haven't managed to move past the yellow. This could be a bit of a slog...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on January 20, 2011, 08:17:56 PM
And here's the proof. Two hours, one colour and it still looks like shizzle! Should have chose Black Templars...

(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/IMG_1092.jpg)

Dont worry chaps, I wont derail this thread with my Marines. Anyway, back to the Kislev commission. The end is in sight!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 21, 2011, 01:25:37 PM
Man... I think the mini is nice.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on January 21, 2011, 02:47:46 PM
I think it is nice too.  :happy:
When you paint it to the level you find it good ,please post it, I would really like to see it  :smile2:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 21, 2011, 03:00:21 PM
Not only are blood angels my least valerie space marine army in fluff, the models pretty much all look like crap.  Those flying things are cool though. If they have less than av13 I wouldn't field three.  Typical gw bad army list. Against a handful off build it will do okay. Against decent setups junk.

As for dreds, they all look similar enough not to cause any real reaction with me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 21, 2011, 03:02:40 PM
With me, I don't care that the Stormravens aren't the best selection, I love them.

After holding one in my hands and making "pew pew" noises at people (the store manager did it to me first!), I love it.

It's also rumoured that they will be made available for all Chapters. Interesting if so.


Last night in Cardiff I saw a gorgeous ork army. Humvees that were actually so well converted they looked like GW models, a flying battlewagon which was part battlewagon kit, part tau, part massive chinhook copter blades.

There was also another nice ork army, which had the most adorable Battlewagon I've ever seen. Imagine the front compartment of the BW on it's own, on the tank tracks, with a Death rolla. So cute. It then had a Trailer using the rear half and the wheels to carry da boyz.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on January 21, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
The Stormraven is growing on me as well. After I've seen some more angles of it I think it doesn't at all look as bad as I first thought.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 21, 2011, 08:25:44 PM
Have you guys read the description for these new products?

"The Furioso Dreadnought is effectively a mobile infantry blender that will make your opponents want to check your codex with disbelief."

Read the blurb about the Storm Raven (find both on the GW pre order section, at the bottom).

Awesome!  :icon_lol:

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 21, 2011, 08:56:13 PM
Also relevant:

(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/6/3/109955_md-Battle%20Fortress%2C%20Conversion%2C%20Land%20Raider%2C%20Marine%20Abuse%2C%20Orks%2C%20Super-heavy.jpg)

This game needs MOAR land battleships.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 21, 2011, 09:01:40 PM
Wow I see two landraiders, at least one battle wagon, a baneblade bitz, and stompas parts. Amazing!

What is the av on that storm raven and is it only released for blood angels?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 21, 2011, 09:02:58 PM
AV12 on all sides, fast skimmer.

Currently, only Blood Angels.

Apparently soon for all.

Rumours say Grey Knights get it too.

Considering it comes with Grey Knights parts... yeah.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 21, 2011, 09:05:46 PM
I might buy one for black templar but I am currently running two landraiders and an annihilator.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 21, 2011, 09:17:16 PM
I'd wait for the "apparently" to happen.

It's been 100% sure fact something will happen, and then bam, it doesn't.

 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 21, 2011, 11:37:40 PM
I just purchased the kans and deff dredd models. No need for space marines for now! I have 6000 points of templar unpainted already!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on January 22, 2011, 07:56:46 AM
Have you seen any pics of my bredische yet, Huren?  :engel:

You certainly got more armour at home, and probably variety... But you only need one good axe to do some proper crumpin!
I had forgotten your berdiche, silly me, that is definately a big honkin axe, bet I can move and change direction with my arms and armour built Dane axe faster than you and still swing it hard enough (under 5 pounds and as long in the haft as your berdishe) .  We'll have to do a Legolas and Gimli fight count one day are you still fighting with the swedish version of the Kongshirden group?  oh and that reminds me I was going to show all of you someyou tube videos I found recently.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 22, 2011, 09:40:29 AM
Wait, nothing is certain. Its only rumours (or more like wishfull thinking) that it will be available to all chapters.
Grey knights is a definite yes, why else would they make their symbols on it?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on January 22, 2011, 10:27:52 AM
Grey Knights version:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/rmi6aq.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on January 22, 2011, 11:01:13 AM
I must admit that I like that Stromraven or whatever, even though I am not a space marine fun .
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on January 22, 2011, 11:17:41 AM
Shit,.... now i have to buy it...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 22, 2011, 11:51:49 AM
No, Huren, I have sadly not been fighting lately. My social skills just ostrachize me from all these thightarsed groups. I know I can come across as troublesome, wanting to debate systems and not accepting them as they are. Might pick up HEMA instead, but I mostly want to do rapier with SCA, or is it called renaissance fencing. Bought such a lovely blade, blunted for safety, to wear with my coming newer and flashier costume of about 1628. This is the blade:
http://www.gavelins.com/sword/mo1-46.html

A late 16th-early 17th century sword, and not really a rapier. The correct term seems to be the german "reitschwert" and it was a popular style worn on many portraits of late renaissance generals.
So now I need someone to fence with. And in our 17th century society, another crazy bastard have become members who thinks that is a honking good idea! That way we would be able to show the spectators cold steel duelling at least.

But I would like to do SCA renaissance fencing. Shame it will take some time to get that in order here. My mates in the local SCA society have now made a neat new fighting room, but since the heavy fighters are the ones who are seen as cool, they take center stage. And I lack the ability to get a legal armour for that... :icon_cry: I mean, 3mm steel in the helmet! Heavy as hell and not historically correct. Seems most helmets did not have more than 1mm thickness! But then, I believe that the fact that a deforming helmet absorbs lot of the impact. Dunno...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on January 22, 2011, 04:43:25 PM
Okay you two, get a room.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on January 22, 2011, 04:52:19 PM
Youīre just envious, Philly!  :icon_razz:

By the way, those 6000 unpainted templars sound fun! I am all for a more easily painted army now...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on January 22, 2011, 09:13:47 PM
I just found 5 chaos chosen (Dark angels renegades), 8 Berserkers, 10 raptors and 6 converted Chaos space marines, in a small box, in a drawer.

Most of them are half painted too!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 02, 2011, 01:27:45 PM
God having a baby makes painting difficult. I assembled the kans and dredd in one night but have been painting the dredd for three! It is a five hour job that is constantly interrupted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on February 02, 2011, 04:48:07 PM
Well, I can only say the same. However, I never expect to pain anything in one go.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 19, 2011, 10:38:18 PM
Finished my deff dredd today.  Looks pretty good.  I am satisfied.

(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/Dredd3.jpg)

(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/dredd2.jpg)

(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/Dredd1.jpg)

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 20, 2011, 12:20:46 AM
Very nice paintjob, but surely I can't be the only one who doesn't like the new Deff Dread model????

I'mma jump on the photo bandwagon with the latest bit of my new project.....

(http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii355/Eight-Warhammer/DSCF1176.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 20, 2011, 12:45:36 AM
Cool. What chapter is it, or a new one you made up?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 20, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
I bought the new kit because I love the model.  I have one new one and one old one.  The new one is much better.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on February 20, 2011, 11:42:43 AM
I bought the new kit because I love the model.  I have one new one and one old one.  The new one is much better.

Fair enough.

Seems too cartoony for me though.



What chapter is it, or a new one you made up?

DIY chapter. Probably something like Steel Vengeance. They're not gonna be like codex marines.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 20, 2011, 11:53:52 AM
Looks cool, Philly! But maybe you could work a little on the blood? It doesnt look that convincing. The rest is cool!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 21, 2011, 02:01:10 PM
I would love to cover him in blood, but I am often told I put too much on him.

As a butcher who uses meat saws, the amount of blood present isn't far from the truth.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 21, 2011, 03:26:37 PM
No no i dont mean the amount!

I mean the colouring. It looks unconvincing. Only looks like its one colour :O
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 21, 2011, 08:28:25 PM
Oh I see.  No, three layers and an ink wash.  Doesnt hold up in the picture because it is shiny and gets blasted in the flash.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 21, 2011, 08:33:31 PM
Oooh sounds nice ;)
Hmm never use flash when taking pictures of minis :O Dont you have a desklamp to point at it?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 21, 2011, 09:30:45 PM
I do but I took those with my phone so they aren't quite up to snuff!

The differences are pretty subtle but there is some differences in the shading.  Mostly just looks wet and bloody!

I am currently turning a land raider into a battlewagon.  I want to run a Speed Kills Ork list at the set of tournaments that are taking place this year.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on February 21, 2011, 09:37:54 PM
The differences are pretty subtle but there is some differences in the shading.  Mostly just looks wet and bloody!


That was what I  was expecting! :P

Im looking forward to seeing the landwagon :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 21, 2011, 09:54:08 PM
Using battlewagon, trukk, and stompa bits to modify it.  Should be fun!  I was going to buy another wagon, but I decided that I would convert a spare landraider I have and will grab a Land raider crusader to replace it in my Black Templar army.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 21, 2011, 10:02:43 PM
Make a landship dammit! Landships are awesome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 21, 2011, 10:29:48 PM
Landship... explain!

Pil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on February 21, 2011, 10:48:23 PM
I posted a picture of one earlier in the thread. The one made out of multiple battlewagons, landraiders, etc.

Basically, massive ork vehicle which is basically a mobile fortress/aircraftcarrier etc.

Edit: and this beauty:

(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/8/24/133054_md-Conversion,%20Land,%20Orks,%20Ship.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on February 21, 2011, 10:56:38 PM
That one is awesome!

I saw the earlier one.  That one rocked too.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on February 22, 2011, 11:49:24 AM
Dear Gork (or Mork) all mighty !!!!  :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

DAT FING IZ 'UGE !!!!!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 04, 2011, 04:54:51 PM
Anyone who knows anything about Necrons...

What is a good size for a unit of Necron Warriors?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 04, 2011, 05:35:07 PM
10 plus. They need mms to ensure get back up. Really no army should have less  than 50 on the board.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 04, 2011, 08:00:34 PM
I've been scouring the internet and oddly enough, everyone seems to be saying "Minimum 2*10" for warriors.

It seems to be maxing on destroyers of various types, with some wraiths or immortals (but not both) sprinkled in.

And of course Das Monolith.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 05, 2011, 06:08:56 PM
Well a hand full of templates will make that army evaporate. To much of that going around now!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on March 11, 2011, 09:35:58 PM
DANG !!!!  I am so starting a grey knights army when I get the time  :icon_eek:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1710176a_99120107003_DreadKnight01_873x627.jpg


Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 11, 2011, 10:05:24 PM
Not another one!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 13, 2011, 02:46:27 PM
No fear, Philly!

I was hooked by them greys too, but now I have felt drawn to the Black Templars instead. More batshit crazy they are and kinda perfect for a 40K version of Mathi Alfblut.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on March 13, 2011, 08:04:50 PM
DANG !!!!  I am so starting a grey knights army when I get the time  :icon_eek:

My view is that that thing is one of the worst models that GW has produced for years.  It looks as though it has come from a bad cartoon, and it's a completely ridiculous concept.  If anyone uses that against me, I have this feeling that I'm going to struggle to keep a straight face.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 13, 2011, 08:17:32 PM
I knew I liked you.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on March 13, 2011, 09:18:02 PM
DANG !!!!  I am so starting a grey knights army when I get the time  :icon_eek:

My view is that that thing is one of the worst models that GW has produced for years.  It looks as though it has come from a bad cartoon, and it's a completely ridiculous concept.  If anyone uses that against me, I have this feeling that I'm going to struggle to keep a straight face.

It is personal preference.
 I am not a sculptor so all the GW models (at least most of them) seem just fine to me.  It has a weird consept though. :icon_confused:

I must agree that it looks kindy stupid compare to other walker styled models, like dreadnoughts, but come on..... It is a huge robot-hammer wielding-ultra gun using-baby carrying  monster, taller than a deamon prince . 

Also I am not starting Grey knights for this, I really like the new range of models, and a small 2000 points army is what I need to back my 8000 point Imperial guard force on the next apocalipses  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 13, 2011, 09:21:45 PM
I think you will hard pressed to find more than a few people who will say the love it.  You will not have a problem finding someone who hates it.  Many will just not care.

That isn't a good sign for a model.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 13, 2011, 09:25:34 PM
I love it because it's so utterly stupid.

Why is this wrong Philly, why?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 13, 2011, 09:26:35 PM
It is ugly, maybe?

Give me a proper Dreadnought any day.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 13, 2011, 09:28:22 PM
I love it because it's so utterly stupid.

Why is this wrong Philly, why?

If you love it for being horrible then there is nothing at all wrong with that.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 13, 2011, 09:50:26 PM
Awesome. I think it's terrible, ridiculous, and I love it.

I love ridiculous things.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 14, 2011, 10:57:42 AM
I think that we all get that you dont like it, Philly xD
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on March 14, 2011, 10:57:29 PM
It is personal preference.

Naturally  :-).  I just think that it makes a laughing stock of the Grey Knights to be honest.  Quite how they can be taken seriously with that 'thing' on the field remains to be seen, but intial impressions seem mixed to say the least.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 15, 2011, 11:10:34 PM
... but intial impressions seem mixed to say the least.

On Warseer. And with Phil. Well, at least one that I can take seriously.
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 16, 2011, 02:20:54 PM
So, um, which of GW's sculpters have been smoking George Lucas "magical" pipe?  :icon_confused:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1140066a
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 16, 2011, 02:21:34 PM
Gonna play with the new GK tonight :D
My list:

1500pts
HQ:
Grandmaster 175      205
psycostroke grenades +15
master&digital +10
blind grenades +5

Ordo malleus 25      31pts
2 servo skulls +6pts


Elites:

Warband            146pts
3 servitors w/ plasmacannon +60
1 crusader +15
4 warrior acolytes + 16
Chimera +55

Troops:
 
10 GK strike squad 200      250pts
- justicar har daemonhammer 10
- psybolts +20
- 2 psycannons +20

10 termies   400      500pts
2 psycannonc + 50
-2 daemon hammer mastercrafted +5
-2 sword
-4 halberds (2 psycannons)
- banner +25
- warding stave +20

Heavy:

Purgation squad 5 mand   100pts   180pts
4 psycannons.

Dreadknight 130         185pts
Greatsword +25
Heavy incinie +30
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 16, 2011, 02:41:41 PM
Looks nice, although the lack of transports does bother me a bit. Still, a fair amount of firepower. I suppose the GM will join the Termies with the Brotherhood banner?

Do the servo skulls help with deepstrike? If so, I could see the Termies doing that. And - aaah! Grand Strategy for the GKSS? What do they get? Scout?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 16, 2011, 03:12:50 PM
I just joined the termies together in one unit instead. Now i can combat squad the psycannons to one squad and the CC stuff to the other. THe GM will join the CC squad.


I really dont know about the grand strategy. I was thinking either, troops on the purgation squad, but that would probably limit their already short range if they had to hug an objective.
Maybe scout the strike squad and have them outflank? Counter attack would also be nice.
I dont think the GK will need transports, since im going defensive, they just need to fire of alot of rounds

Servo skulls aid friendly deepstrike and blast weapons (hello plasma cannons). I just dont know where to place them? They die if the enemy comes within 6".
I would actually prefer to have everything on the table when i start. But i dont know. Maybe it would be nice to come down with deepstrike.

Im going to play BA and i expect 2 dreads and 2 baals at least.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 16, 2011, 03:58:05 PM
Going defensive could be a problem generally as all your fire is rather short ranged (psicannons have only 24" range, right?), although it should work fine vs. Blood Angels.

for an all comers list I would consider how I can get in the enemies face fast, since long range shooting wars will not be the strong side of an army with few models, few invulnerable saves and medium ranged shooting focus.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 16, 2011, 07:11:08 PM
What is a psycannons strength? Because I am not sure how you would stop my 4 battle wagon army. Low on anti vehicle. The other issue is the 24 inch range.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 16, 2011, 07:16:02 PM
Because I am not sure how you would stop my 4 battle wagon army.

I suspect by playing someone instead, who understands that measuring pants' bulges isn't done by a game of 40k...

 :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 16, 2011, 07:53:55 PM
What is a psycannons strength? Because I am not sure how you would stop my 4 battle wagon army. Low on anti vehicle. The other issue is the 24 inch range.

S7 AP4 rending. Either heavy 4 or assault 2.

Do the math - it actually has a much better chance of getting results against AV14 than a lascannon.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 16, 2011, 08:13:03 PM
Or simply point to Shadowlords reply. It contains the answer needed. No need to constantly powergame to play good 40K.  :icon_razz:

Anyway, read some fun stuff on BoLS. Tau may be on the horizon, and it makes my xenowibes grow stronger. And there will be squats...  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 16, 2011, 08:16:35 PM
Xenoweibs? :mellow:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on March 16, 2011, 08:46:40 PM
And there will be squats...  :icon_cool:

Where did you read that? Are Forge World making them?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 16, 2011, 08:48:55 PM
Forge World? They will do squat.








*ducks*




Edit: Two silly posts in a row. I think I'm overdoing it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on March 16, 2011, 08:53:43 PM
Jesus. A pun worthy of Midaski.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 16, 2011, 09:28:23 PM
And there will be squats...  :icon_cool:

Where did you read that? Are Forge World making them?

No they will be in the new Tau book according to rumours.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 16, 2011, 09:32:57 PM
That could actually make sense, story-wise.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 16, 2011, 11:19:46 PM
I suspect by playing someone instead, who understands that measuring pants' bulges isn't done by a game of 40k...

Well I am asking because that is sort of what I do when I make a list.  I am curious as to how the army might deal with a heavy vehicle.  Doesn't the Dreadkniht mount a heavy version?

As for the laser cannon thing, doesn't the psycannon only have a 24" range?  The nice thing about laser cannon is the nice range.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 16, 2011, 11:42:54 PM
Okay im back home!


Plans changed and I got up against an IG player instead so the maximum number of players could play.
Anyways to sum up. I lost with one objective.

Reason:
I outflanked with my strike squad. They came in late and on the wrong side. It was a risk and i wont take it again.
My opponent played a very mild army with straken and some ogryns and not alot of tanks or stuff. It was nice. He also went offensive which was perfect.


The dreadknight was easily killed by his basilisk (only arty tank) and some 3 autocannons and 3 lascannons. It died in turn 3. Even in cover. But the heavy incinie was nice!

The purgation squad and 4 psycannons... and their 16 shots a turn.... did nothing else than shake and stun a chimera. Unlucky maybe. But they did make some veterans flee!

I also forgot the bonus from the brotherhood banner...  :eusa_wall: doh.
Aldaris is totally right about the shooting war. It cant be won.
The grandmaster was awesome. I forgot the psychotroke grenades in his first assault but in the second where he singlehandedly charged a small IG squad with commissar, it really rocked. I rolled a 6 so they had to take an I test or attack each other. Unfortunately, the grandmaster failed his armour saves and died. But damn those nades are staying in the list.

Now to answer phillys question.
The list wont be able to handle the battlewagons. Im not even sure how you are going to fit 4 of them into a 1500pts game? BUt! There are lots of tricks to deal with the passengers.

The Dreadknight is also a good bet. 3 attacks with S7 with reroll to hit and armour pen + monsterous creature is pretty good. If the target hasnt moved 12 ;.


My early estimate of the army:

Its balanced. Sure there are alot of nice goodies and weapons. But they all cost and the army is already expensive. It seems fairly balanced between cost and efficiency. The army seems hyped by the internet of the good things but people forget that you have to make choices of what to bring in the army. And it still suffers from its minimal numbers!
Im still not entirely sure if i would have preferred more strike squads over the termies.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 16, 2011, 11:48:31 PM
@ Phil: It is, but Grey Knights are a low model count elite army with force weapons even on basic troopers - you wouldn't want to use them sitting back and having an artillery duel anyway. And the Psicannon is really quite good at AT - about 3 of the 4 shots should hit, giving an almost even chance of a 6 and thus automatically glancing AV14 even on a rending roll of 1.

Besides, there's always the Vindicare assassin. Turbo Penetrator rounds have sniper rules with 4d6 penetration roll and AP1. And they're not limited to 1 shot per special ammo type anymore.

And if that doesn't work - you can have as many thunderhammers as you like. And there are some melta/mm carriers as well.
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 01:20:22 AM
As far as the Battlewagon list:

My main list runs 3 wagons with 19 shootas and PK nob in 2 and 20 shootas with PK nob n the thrid.  A trukk of choppa boyz with PK nob and two units of 8 lootas.  Two big meks with kustom orce fields sit in the two units of 19 boyz.

What isthe basic cost on the grey knight squad?  Having them all having power weapons is nasty!

I agree about the psycannon.  That is actually a nasty weapon.  I love my autocannons, and they are just as good and are readily available in the army.

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 17, 2011, 08:15:48 AM
What isthe basic cost on the grey knight squad?  Having them all having power weapons is nasty!

Basic Grey Knight Strike Squad (9 Troopers and a Sarge) costs 40 Empire halberdiers. And they have Force swords as standard, not just power. Meaning that when they chose to use their Psy for that, every wound they cause is instant death.

Individual troopers can upgrade to Halberds (+2 I), Demonhammers (like a TH), Falchions (like Lightning claws) or a Warding Stave (2++ in cc for a hefty price); although the last option is limited to one per squad as far as I know. All of those are Force weapons with Demonbane.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 17, 2011, 10:31:42 AM
Actually, the falchions only add +1 attack. No reroll.

Thats not a bad list Philly, do the battlewagons have some good guns? Im not sure that i would fear it that much.
There arent that many units in the army, so the GK should be able to contain it.
Purifiers would be excellent to take the charge from the orks, so would the psychotroke grenades or rad grenades. Oh and Defensive grenades ;)
The lootas could proove troublesome with their good range and firepower.
I havent thought of any unit in the GK that can handle arty units that sit around in the back.

And what is up with the site? XD Its wierd.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 10:41:15 AM
Against grey knights I would probably pull within 18 and drop 120 s4 shoota rounds off a turn. One a unit was softened some I would assault.

Wagons have two big shoota and a deff rolla.

That unit seems really cheap for all having force weapons...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 17, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
That unit seems really cheap for all having force weapons...

It balances out I think - they have been reduced to normal Marine stats to compensate. They do have Psi powers (one that can mess with deepstrikers in their vicinity, and one that can raise their S by +1), but they can only use one of those OR their force weapons per turn. Plus if they take a special or heavy, they trade in their Stormbolter AND their force weapon.

And "really cheap" is relative - a unit of 10 with 2 Psicannons, Psybolt ammo (which raises the S of their Stormbolters to 5) and a Mastercrafted Demonhammer for the Justicar, riding in a Rhino costs almost 300 points. A good unit and an awesome troops choice to be sure, but you're not going to have a big army.

@ McKnight: for dealing with arty stuff in the backfield I would consider orbital strikes, Deepstrikers or flankers.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 17, 2011, 11:08:34 AM
Sounds like a good strategy. Im used to my ork friend just plunging into combat right away. But your tactic scares my grey knights, dont know how to beat that, other than trying to open your cans.

Nah the price is okay philly. Its actually rare (in my subjective opinion) that force weapons are useful! There arent that many multiwound models. And you would also have to choose between +1 strength or force weapon psychic thingy each assault phase.

Im thinking about dropping the henchmen warband and adding a vindicare assasin instead.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 17, 2011, 11:24:50 AM
Why not a Callidus? (are there new rules for the Assassins?)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 11:39:44 AM
My prespective is skewed. In my parts power weapons are king since I have 3 marine, 2 chaos marines, 2 necrons, a tyranid, an ig, and me. Lots of 3 plus.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 17, 2011, 11:42:34 AM
power weapons are no force weapons are no might weapons are no strength weapons are no ...........
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 11:47:18 AM
Wait, force weapons are power weapons though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 17, 2011, 11:52:31 AM
How should I know I only play IG nothing in the game ever reaches close combat..the power swords/force weapons are just for shaking around and pointing where my bodybags should go.

http://www.monkeyboobies.com/gallery/d/219-1/drive+me+closer_+i+want+to+hit+them+with+my+sword.png (http://www.monkeyboobies.com/gallery/d/219-1/drive+me+closer_+i+want+to+hit+them+with+my+sword.png)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 11:55:59 AM
I lost a nob to a primaris once!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 17, 2011, 11:59:11 AM
What happened to the primaris after this?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 17, 2011, 12:02:09 PM
Why not a Callidus? (are there new rules for the Assassins?)

The Callidus and vindicare are both pretty damn awesome!
But the callidus only adds more of what i already have, anti infantry stuff. The vindicare is a force multiplier. It can pick out commissars, nobs and best of all, it is fearsome in its antitank properties which is what I miss in the army.

Yea Philly, I have the same problem here in Denmark. Atleast 75% of the players in my city plays some kind of power armour army. Kinda annoying, but I cant complain since i have two myself :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 12:08:31 PM
What happened to the primaris after this?

He did become a fine red mist...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 17, 2011, 11:38:17 PM
So um, one of my buddies has offered to sell his Necron army to me.

I know it is weak in the game but I love their background and models, and it is fully painted to a high standard with a price tag roughly 40% of the retail price.

My CSM are not getting any love from me because I hate painting them, and this Necron force is huge n' cheap.

Should I?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 17, 2011, 11:40:34 PM
Yes, you should.

As a fellow CSM player... yes..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 17, 2011, 11:46:48 PM
Buy it then sell it to me!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on March 18, 2011, 12:19:41 AM
Aren't Necrons due a book soon? They might be playable in a few months. If you like the look of the army and can afford it (which of course you can) then go for it!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 18, 2011, 12:20:57 AM
They do okay now.  It is tough stopping a player who just spams necron warriors and monoliths.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 18, 2011, 12:28:07 AM
Come on, there can be some really fun Necron lists.  The one I really want is:

3 monoliths
5 x 12 necrons
2 x 5 scarabs with disruption fields
1 lord with war scyth, resurection orb, and phase shifter
1 nightbringer
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 18, 2011, 09:47:39 AM
Come on, there can be some really fun Necron lists.  The one I really want is:

That list is nasty even for Necrons who otherwise suffer from the Tomb King syndrome - Aka They suck!

No PhillyT, I do not want to sell it to you because I do not want to be responsible for you ending up alone without any friends.  :icon_wink:

He has two Monoliths, both painted to a superb standard - I don't even know why I hesitate really - must be something that has to do with the fact that I collecting fantasy greenskins atm. But what the hell, it is really cool and already painted so I can start gaming with it right away when all my strength has returned (damn cell extraction OD chemo dose). And put a nail in the coffin for my CSM (for now).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 18, 2011, 02:31:03 PM
I bought them!  :closed-eyes:

Pics up this weekend.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 18, 2011, 02:41:55 PM
I love the monolith shell game!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 18, 2011, 03:16:23 PM
Sounds like you did a bargain there, Shadowlord! My son has talked about them Necrons too, and of late borrowed my orks to play some solitare.
I get nothing thone, though. Nothing... I love them orksies but at the same time I get nothing done at the moment. I am pondering asking him if he would like to administer them for me for a period, paint some if he likes too. Dunno... maybe I could begin something anew. My Sisters of Battle for example. Paint more Empire...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 18, 2011, 03:27:13 PM
Had a quick price check and it was more 50% of the retail price, not 40% as he claimed, painted to an excellent standard.

I got ripped...  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 18, 2011, 06:03:14 PM
Shame about the Chaos marines  :Ohmy:


But good luck with the necrons! Pray that you dont end up against the Guard :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 18, 2011, 06:33:12 PM
Hold them in reserve. Separate one monolith, deploy the other two. Bring the necron in by teleporting them in the monolith. It isn't that bad.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 18, 2011, 09:53:49 PM
The old evil robots has come home to papa...  :closed-eyes:

Here's what I got painted:

2 lords on foot
1 lord on those hovering thingie (awesome conversion)

60 warriors

17 swarms
9 wraiths
5 destroyers

9 pariahs
10 flayed ones
6 immortals

3 heavy destroyers
3 Tomb spyders
2 monoliths

Nightbringer
Deciever

Plus this yet to be painted: 3 destroyers, 1 monolith, 1 pylon, and a box with warriors.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 18, 2011, 10:23:28 PM
Awesome! Now sell them to me because you love me. I have dirty boxer briefs from last summer.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 18, 2011, 10:43:47 PM
Awesome! Now sell them to me because you love me. I have dirty boxer briefs from last summer.

Tempting as this may sound, to finally be able to play 40k with a rather large selection of models and units beats it.  :happy:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 18, 2011, 11:05:59 PM
Foiled! Okay stud, you deserve it!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 19, 2011, 05:35:24 PM
Dammit you made me do it.  I just bought a necron army.

1 monolith
6 destroyers
56 necrons
6 swarms
1 necron lord with resurection orb

$50

I then traded garbage tau I had for

6 destroyers
36 necrons
1 necron lord with resurection orb
6 swarms
1 wraith
1 Tomb spider

I then bought:

2 monolith
1 night bringer
1 wraith

$136.

So a grand total of $186 for a pile of necrons.

The haul isn't as good in choices as Shadowlord's, and it doesn't have that sweet pylon, but it does have exactly what I want in my army.

And I have my Swedish love muffin to blame. 

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 05:49:42 PM
And I have my Swedish love muffin to blame. 

Damn straight!  :closed-eyes:

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Other/newyork.jpg)

Cool choice - after all they are the only real evil guys of 40k.

My pics in 30 mins.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 19, 2011, 05:51:57 PM
...on par with the Locusts, of course. I like them both for this very reason.

Looking forward to pictures from both of you (that is, of your armies)!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 05:57:26 PM
...on par with the Locusts, of course. I like them both for this very reason.

Looking forward to pictures from both of you (that is, of your armies)!

Necrons are hateful and evil, nids are hungry - big diff - though the end result is pretty much the same.  :icon_cool:

Pics of Phil's and my RPG session from last week called "Only fie dollah!" sent through PM.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 07:04:37 PM
Crappy pic but the theme is there, if you look in the crystal you see the deciever.

Several minis have small spyders on their bodies, there are things crawling all over the place, cool lightning effects, and so on.

I will have to repaint all the gauss green to match the cool blueish light on the rest of the stuff.

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Necrons/003.jpg)

Here is the rest (two crappy pics of everything):

http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Necrons/
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on March 19, 2011, 07:08:04 PM
I cant really make out the other stuff but that Monolith is the shizzle. Good purchase  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 19, 2011, 07:13:10 PM
Is that an unpainted destroyer I spy?

Send in the collection agencies! Destroy him!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 19, 2011, 07:17:59 PM
The first pic is awesome! But the rest really doesnt look anything like it. So now I wonder which one is the closest to reality :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 08:14:31 PM
A pro would have noticed that the pic here is without flash, which means?

A) Better quality

B) Dong increase

C) Gnabba-Gnabba

Chill, I will take better pics on minis later on when I pic 'em up for battle in a week.  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 19, 2011, 08:24:40 PM
You dont need to be a pro to know that flash sucks donkey balls when taking shots of minis ;)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 08:33:16 PM
Wow I knew Flash was fast but I never saw him as a perverted photographer...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on March 19, 2011, 09:54:27 PM
And he really shouldn't tell McKnight about preferences like those.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on March 19, 2011, 09:55:33 PM
Flash is so dirty.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on March 19, 2011, 09:58:03 PM
Now, those necrons seems like quite a steal! Now get some games and take awesome snapshots about your Shadowlord scything down his enemies.  :icon_mrgreen:

By the way, what happened you your spiky boys? Sold them?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 19, 2011, 10:20:41 PM
Hahahhahahah xD

Touché :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 10:41:45 PM
By the way, what happened you your spiky boys? Sold them?

No but I am getting rid of all the BL stuff to get more greenskins.

If I ever start again, hopefully I do, then Word Bearers will kick my brush.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 19, 2011, 10:46:20 PM
Really? I like Black Legion. When I want to do games beyond my standard list of 1500-1700 of death guard, I expand using Black Legion.

I can't believe you're getting rid of them. Who else will I have on the side of Chaos? (not like Aldaris counts)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 10:50:50 PM
Um, I still have tons of CSM that are plastic - they won't redo those.

They a just not painted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on March 19, 2011, 10:51:48 PM
No but I am getting rid of all the BL stuff to get more greenskins.

If I ever start again, hopefully I do, then Word Bearers will kick my brush.

If you need a buyer for the painted stuff, I would definitely be interested.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 19, 2011, 10:53:16 PM
Um, I still have tons of CSM that are plastic - they won't redo those.

They a just not painted.

Ah right. That's alright then, you're let off.  :engel:

Still... remember, Chaos is #1.

And if you're getting rid of that Black Legion Daemon prince...  :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 19, 2011, 11:18:34 PM
Sorry chaps, the stuff has been promised to someone else for green.

Green that screams WAAAGH!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Dihenydd on March 23, 2011, 10:02:09 PM

I will have to repaint all the gauss green to match the cool blueish light on the rest of the stuff.

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Necrons/003.jpg)


You realize you can buy after-market blue or red rods, right?  Takes some searching, but better than painting.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 23, 2011, 10:42:15 PM
That pic of PhillyT and SL is more disturbing than goatse and 2 girls 1 cup combined.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Odominus on March 24, 2011, 02:15:44 AM
Looks promising...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvymPlPaXDE
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on March 24, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
It actually does!:O

When is it out?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 24, 2011, 01:08:37 PM
This year hopefully.

Definately getting it on Xbox360, and hopefully many people I know will too!

Because it apparently is a co-op game! I -love- co-op games!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 24, 2011, 01:49:21 PM
it looks like gears of war.

I need to buy a wireless thingy :(
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 24, 2011, 03:27:12 PM
it looks like gears of war.

I need to buy a wireless thingy :(

I was wondering why I still never saw you on! I'm starting to feel I should just play the last Borderland expansion by myself!  :roll:

And Gears of War isn't a bad game, and with 40k attached... fun! GoW was actually one of the funnest games I've played co-op.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on March 25, 2011, 11:11:02 AM
Hopefully this is the right thread to get some advice!

I need some help assembling an 1850 chaos army for chaos vs marines this weekend.  I have the following rather large collection to pick from. 

1 terminator lord with pair of lightning claws [slaanesh]
1 termnator lord of tzeench with sword and combimelta [tzeench]
1 sorceror lord with terminator armour combi melta and force sword [slaanesh]
1 sorceror lord, force staff [ahriman model]
1 chaos lord [kharn model]
1 daemon princess model [Reaper Sophie model] with wings
1 daemon prince [old metal model]
1 converted lightning claw jetpack model

2 rhinos
2 predators
1 landraider
1vindicator
1 defiler
3 dreadnaughts.  one with a pair of combat arms, one with plasmacannon/combat weapon and one with twin lascannon and missile launcher

6 chosen, 3 with plasmaguns, one with power sword, one with heavy bolter
11 terminators.  5 with pair of lightning claws, 1 heavy flamer chainfist, 1 reapercannon lightning claw, 3 with power weapons/combi bolter, 1 with power weapon combi melta
10 possessed [yeah cant see me using these!]
16 Khorne Beserkers
9 thousand sons inc sorcerer
7 plague marines
15 noise marines, assorted weapons.  Only around 7 of these have sonic weapons.
50 or 60 approx. Normal marines with pretty much every heavy weapon, 4 of each special weapon, 1 of each Icon, lots of champion options.  Can assemble havocs if I really want to.
10 Raptors
6 bikers, 2 with combi plasma
3 obliterators
3 chaos spawns

I think thats them all!

What I was planning is to go this route.  Im guessing, as I dont have my book on me at work!  All thoughts welcome.

Chaos lord of tzeench with 4 terminators deep striking.
Sorcerer lord of Slaanesh with some bodyguard unit using lash.  Im open to suggestions for this squad
10 khorne bezerkers, in  landraider
All my plague and thousand sons marines, to protect my objectives.  Both hard to remove.
One of my dreadnaughts, probably the combat model, as it is least likely to kill my own men.
2-3 squads of normal marines.  Rhinos if I can afford. 
vindicator
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 25, 2011, 01:18:26 PM
it looks like gears of war.

I need to buy a wireless thingy :(

I was wondering why I still never saw you on! I'm starting to feel I should just play the last Borderland expansion by myself!  :roll:

And Gears of War isn't a bad game, and with 40k attached... fun! GoW was actually one of the funnest games I've played co-op.
Well its my birthday quite soon, so I'll prob ask for a wireless thing, then we can do BL!

Yeh it looked fun to be fair.
Also, I quite enjoyed Fire Warrior!
It would be cool if you got bolt pistol and chainsword combo. for some melee action
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 25, 2011, 03:00:59 PM
From the looks of it you'll be able to do most things space marines do, jetpacks, melee weapons, heavy weapons. Hell in one trailer I saw a marine with an autocannon held like a heavy bolter ready to shoot down an ork flier.

And you enjoyed Fire Warrior did you?  :engel:

The only good thing about that game in my opinion was the portrayal of boltguns, not as rapid firing submachineguns, but weapons which fired explosive rocket propelled bolts.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: t12161991 on March 25, 2011, 03:47:05 PM
I liked Fire Warrior too... :unsure:

Space Marine does look quite good though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on March 25, 2011, 07:24:04 PM
I liked Fire Warrior.
Then again, I was about 13 at the time.
I also liked Ultramarines back then....
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on March 27, 2011, 09:48:51 PM
I liked Fire Warrior as well. Gameplay was generic but quite alright, graphics were good at the time, and it was 40k.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on March 28, 2011, 01:59:48 PM
At the time you were only 10, of course you liked it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on March 28, 2011, 02:10:19 PM
That as well probably, but I'll have you know my taste in games was impeccable and honed even then.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on March 29, 2011, 04:36:20 PM
The game will be out after the summer, and will make my ding-thing tingle with happiness.

The scene with the valkyre blasting is epic.

Yes I'm 40 and like smurfs.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on March 30, 2011, 10:39:11 AM
Someone just posted these over on the warhammer forum. I like them.

(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/demotivational-posters-orks.jpg)
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/hellokittydreadnought_600we.jpg)
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/2010-01-14-delight.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on March 30, 2011, 04:41:20 PM
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/demotivational-posters-orks.jpg)

That Picachorc is awesome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on March 30, 2011, 05:30:50 PM
I like the Picastompa.
Don't like the other one.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 04, 2011, 05:39:55 PM
I bought a few LE marines on ebay.

I also saw cool Ultra Marine doors, pads, and stuff on FW.

Help me to stay this madness...  :Ohmy:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 04, 2011, 06:51:21 PM
Didnt you just buy necrons?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 04, 2011, 06:55:46 PM
Didnt you just buy necrons?

Your question confuses me.  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 04, 2011, 07:54:08 PM
Its quite clear? :P

You just bought a pile of necrons. Dont start on marines? :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on April 04, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
Start Marines, Im doing Marines. Then start Chaos Dwarfs.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: DariusZero on April 04, 2011, 08:06:47 PM
Blood angels is possibly the best mix of cool models versus deadllines on the table. Just today I could see IRL the sanguinary box junior is busy with. It is such an awesome kit! I 'm seriously thinking of buying one for myself, just to be able to paint it. I hope I'm not digressing this thread. :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 04, 2011, 10:42:12 PM
Have people seen this:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1720126a_99060107066_Jokaero_445x319.jpg)


They brought the techno-orangutans back?

?

?

?

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 04, 2011, 10:46:39 PM
Oh you squid, we have been talking about it fr quite sometime.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 04, 2011, 10:48:46 PM
Well, I only just saw it.


I can't decide if it's goofy in a good way or in a bad way.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 04, 2011, 10:51:51 PM
Few... tough to say.  It was interesting, though I still think there were other places they could have gone to enliven the 40k universe.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 04, 2011, 11:06:59 PM
I bet it looks pretty funny when there's a shiny grey knight army with a random orangutan in it... pulling heavy flamers and multimeltas out of who knows where.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 04, 2011, 11:37:46 PM
I think they represent the effects of the stupidly named digital weapons.  And I beleive the are part of the inquisitor's retinue.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 04, 2011, 11:39:49 PM
On the GW site it says they can summon heavy weapons!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 04, 2011, 11:42:16 PM
I think they represent the effects of the stupidly named digital weapons.  And I beleive the are part of the inquisitor's retinue.

They are. No joining up with Grey Knights for poor Mr. Monkey. Unless a GK IC decides to lead the Monkey Squad for some reason.

On the GW site it says they can summon heavy weapons!

I think they extrude them from some cybernetic gimmick or other. They're basically techie idiot savants. Always building and tinkering with stuff, but not much use for anything else.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 04, 2011, 11:50:08 PM
Hello, I am an orangutan. Now I am going to humiliatingly kill your tank with this multimelta.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on April 04, 2011, 11:58:22 PM
Multimelta shot from a ring on his finger, no less.

The only redeeming feature is that it isn't as physically big as it appears in the preview, it's about 2/3 the height of a space marine. Apart from that it's a techno monkey and not much good can come from that. Unless you make a Moonwalkin MJ figure Inquisitor to go with it and call it Bubbles, but that's pushing it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 05, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
Too articulate.  Its more like:

"Monkey burn metal box.  ARROOOOOO!"

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 05, 2011, 05:30:13 AM
Start Marines, Im doing Marines. Then start Chaos Dwarfs.

No you are doing drag queen marines in that thread you just started.

Draaaaaaaag... Queeeeeeeeeenssssssssss....

I am thinking of getting some paint on some Empire stuff again but I am also thinking of BUYING marines.

And that Jokaero is horrible.  :icon_cry:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on April 05, 2011, 06:55:31 AM
Im not sure I understand. Is yellow standard colour for a drag queen? If so, Im off clothes shopping darling.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 05, 2011, 09:23:10 AM
I like that they included the ape but it has nothing to do on the battlefield. It just makes the weapons for the inquisitor. It doesn't really go out and fight with them. Meh.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on April 05, 2011, 09:45:23 AM
If I got one I think I'd call him Clyde ...................   :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on April 05, 2011, 09:47:27 AM
Ha, that film is so old.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 05, 2011, 06:04:37 PM
Im not sure I understand. Is yellow standard colour for a drag queen? If so, Im off clothes shopping darling.

No but that other wolf *shudder* marine with the knee boots is...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Odominus on April 05, 2011, 06:29:01 PM
right turn clyde
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on April 05, 2011, 08:22:53 PM
Im not sure I understand. Is yellow standard colour for a drag queen? If so, Im off clothes shopping darling.

No but that other wolf *shudder* marine with the knee boots is...

I think its a good sculpt, Im pleased with it. You upset me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 05, 2011, 08:30:03 PM
That abomi... I mean model, upsets me more than casual sex.

But don't be sad, it is not you fault you like crappy models.

Order a few Jokaeros and you will feel better, promise.

 :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on April 05, 2011, 08:34:17 PM
You are a bad man.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on April 05, 2011, 09:58:40 PM
He is. He's also hard at work disproving Midaskis fanboi allegations.
 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on April 06, 2011, 04:12:42 AM
Nobody accuses of being a fanboi and gets away with it...

 :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on April 06, 2011, 12:44:04 PM
Well, I only just saw it.

What were you doing all this time to have avoided seeing that eye sore?  I was trying to avoid reading Grey Knight rumour information, yet still managed to see that overgrown ape weeks ago.

Quote
I can't decide if it's goofy in a good way or in a bad way.

It's an insult to The Librarian (no, not the Space Marine one  :icon_wink:), and resurrects Roddy McDowall from the dead.  Does that help you to form a conclusion  :icon_smile:?


Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 10, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
I have refound my love for the Air cavalry theme for Imperial guard.

Well, thats actually wrong, I never lost it. But various Vietnam war movies (mostly apocalypse now) have brought it into my interest again.

So now Im wondering how to make a decent list to resemble them. I have always gone mechanized because its safe and tough.
I was thinking some gound troops, some airborne veterans and company commander, and some heavy support to cover the troops (hydras, griffons and bassilisks). I like the idea of having artillery coming in to protect the infantry.

My main problem is the flyers. The valkyries are good to carry troops because of their s4 missiles, so are fast, but other than that, useless. Vendettas are awesome, but wont move much, so wont be used for troop transport.

Im also thinking Straken should be the leader of this Air Cav company. I've always like him.

My 1750pts draft looks like this:
HQ:
Company command: Straken, medic, 3 plasmas
Troops:
Infantry platoon: 1 cmd, 3 squads
Command: 4 meltas
1st squad: 1 grenade launcher, 1 Heavy bolter
2nd squad: Power weapon on sarge, Commissar with PW, nade launcher
3rd squad: Power weapon on sarge, nade launcher

1st Veteran squad. 6 shotguns, 3meltas
2nd Veteran squad. 3 plasmas, Sergeant Bastogne

Fast:
2 Valkyries. Missile pods.
1 Vendetta
1 Vendetta

Heavy:
2 Hydras
2 Griffons
1 Bassilisk

The plan would be:
The veteran squads mount in the two valkyries, while Straken the CO will mount in a vendetta. Using the scout move of the flyers, these guys should be able to get into a good position and the vendetta should still be able to fire all of its guns in turn 1.
Straken can then giver orders to the melta veterans and himself and then Bastogne can give orders to his own squad. This should be able to hurt stuff. Especially if the meltas and vendettas are able to open stuff.
If the enemy gets a charge of, then Straken will give the guys Counter attack.

The infantry is there to stay put and hold objectives and maybe support.

Fluffwise. Straken is this awesome colonel from Apocalypse now and Bastogne is this Master sergeant from We were soldiers :P
One thing I dont like is the lack of men.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Immovable Object on April 11, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
Someone had to do this sooner or later and it turns out it was sooner. Someone has made a Dread Knight looted by Orks. Scroll down to the final few pictures for the model nearing completion.

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85527 (http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85527)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 11, 2011, 04:53:46 PM
I saw an even better one somewhere :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: PhillyT on April 11, 2011, 09:17:22 PM
That air cavalry army would have some real issues if that first round of shooting fails.  Those Vendetta will end up hanging out a little far and you are right, it is really lacking in infantry.

But if it starts rolling, that is a very, very nasty list at 1750!

Phil
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on April 12, 2011, 08:09:37 AM
Yes I know. It initially had a fourth inf squad, but it was cut out, together with 3 autocannons.

It doesnt have to be offensive. If I don't get the first turn, then the army will just be counter assaulting and on the defensive. It has enough shooting for that.

But I have to try it out! :O
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 02, 2011, 04:47:55 PM
Going to a 40K tournament the weekend after this one - 5 games, 2000 points. I'll take my CSM, and I am considering using this list:
(Just finshed my first session with an airbrush, painting up some Rhinos...)

***************  1 HQ  ***************

Demon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Warptime
- Chaos Wind
 - - - > 205

***************  2 Elite  ***************

5 Chaos Terminators
- 1 x Chain fist
- 2 x Kombi-Melter
- 2 x Kombi-Plasma
- 1 x Heavy Flamer
 - - - > 190

6 Chosen Chaos Space Marines (outflanking)
- 1 x Power Fist
- 4 x Melter
+ - Chaos Rhino
 - - - > 208


***************  4 Standard  ***************

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melter
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Kombi-Melter
   - Power Fist
+ - Chaos Rhino
 - - - > 210

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melter
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Kombi-Melter
   - Power Fist
+ - Chaos Rhino
 - - - > 210

7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Plasma Gun
+ Aspiring Champion
   - Kombi-Plasma
   - Power Weapon
+ - Chaos Rhino
 - - - > 205

8 Khorne Berzerkers (ride in Land Raider)
+ Skull Champion
   - Power Fist
 - - - > 208

***************  3 Heavy Support ***************

Chaos Land Raider
- Demonic Posession
 - - - > 240

Defiler
- Battlecannon
- Heavy Flamer
- DCCW
 - - - > 150

5 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Plasma Guns
+ - Chaos Rhino
 - - - > 170

1996
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 03, 2011, 08:30:40 AM
I wish you luck and well I was on the receiving end of that list. I think you strike a good balanced army.

The list is not extremely powerful but you play it well so I hope you make it in the top 5.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 03, 2011, 09:04:28 AM
It's not the exact same list I took against you - the raptors are gone and the lesser demons are gone, and for that I've got an extra squad of 7 marines with PF and double melta and the chosen. A good swap I think.

As for placements, well - the last two times I took my CSM to tournaments have been 3rd and 4th place respectively, so we'll see.
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 03, 2011, 09:13:26 AM
Lots of special weapons on tough marines, I like! :P

Tell us how it goes :)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Novogord on June 05, 2011, 09:39:03 AM
And some pictures of these Aldaris :)

McKnight: You have a lot of armor, so that would counter the lack of men. Many marry men, isn't always good (they can't kill that much). The real hitting power with IG are the tanks and planes.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 05, 2011, 09:49:27 AM
Oh yes i know, but i lack some tough armour, like the russes. I havent had the chance to try it yet, but I did get a 2000pts game in against a 1k pts deathwing and 1k pts og guard army.

That is some hefty stuff to go against with my grey knights. I was outgunned and outranged by the IG while the deathwing was assault termies, luckily not all with storm shields. It ended with a victory to them with one objective, a really exciting match!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on June 05, 2011, 04:37:36 PM
What would you suggest to an ork player to use against a Grey Knights army?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on June 05, 2011, 04:52:00 PM
Shoot purifiers.
Assault strike squads.

Hmm in general, they die as easily as marines, so shooting would bring them down easily.
One of their disadvantages lie in their small numbers. Also the strike squads' numbers of attacks, they are few and Orks should easily overcome them.
Termies have bad invul save in CC, they will most likely have halberds, so powerclaws are nice.

Grey knights lack long range firepower (Only the dakka dread is there) but will dessimate orks within 24". So tranports and long range support is essential. Soften them up and then engage.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on June 16, 2011, 07:18:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlXxWmAKU30
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 16, 2011, 07:24:08 PM
Obvously they've heard of 40k in China.

The singing was less than desireable.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 20, 2011, 07:38:00 AM
Now I remember why I donīt like to play Marines.....they look silly.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 29, 2011, 05:06:15 PM
40K question!

Say you have a grey knights army with an inquisitor. Can you include imperial guard squads too? I think you used to be able to with the old army list, but I'm not sure about the new one.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on June 29, 2011, 05:13:36 PM
40K question!

Say you have a grey knights army with an inquisitor. Can you include imperial guard squads too? I think you used to be able to with the old army list, but I'm not sure about the new one.
old rule book you can but only troops and maybe 1 from fast attack, 1 from elite, and one from HQ but you have to at least have a troops option.  It works the other way around too using DH or WH as auxillarys for IG.  As for the new rules, unfortuantley I havnt had a chance to look at the new army book and army builder recently screwed me out of making lists so I dont know.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 29, 2011, 05:49:46 PM
40K question!

Say you have a grey knights army with an inquisitor. Can you include imperial guard squads too? I think you used to be able to with the old army list, but I'm not sure about the new one.

Kind of. If you take an Inquisitor you can buy him a squad of "Inquisitorial Retinue" - up to 12 dudes with IG Guardsmen stats for pretty cheap. The downside? They can't have the standard lasgun. An oversight perhaps, but there it is. They come standard with laspistol and ccw and can be given all kinds of guns - from stormtrooper AP3 lasguns over bolters to stormbolters.

They are limited to 1 squad per Inquisitor though - except if you take Coteaz, they become standard and you can take up to six.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 29, 2011, 10:05:44 PM
Well that's no use at all.

I just want normal guardsmen! But not a full army of imperial guard, because I don't like the tanks and I don't want ten million miniatures.


Wait, you said they could have stormtrooper lasguns? That could work, since they look the same as normal lasguns.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Feanor Fire Heart on June 30, 2011, 12:46:13 AM
yeah, make them grenadiers. :::cheers:::  If you go guardsman as an army option you do not have to get tanks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 30, 2011, 07:22:30 AM
Valkyries = no Tanks

Valkyries = Aweseome = many €

Veterans = Guardsmen with laserguns = half a million models
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 30, 2011, 01:36:52 PM
Valkyries are too big. I like the model, but I don't want to paint one.

I want grey knights and some imperial guardsmen. Also I like chimeras and rhinos, just not any of the proper tanks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on June 30, 2011, 01:54:52 PM
Its easier to paint when you use a spray can.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 30, 2011, 01:57:51 PM
Valkyries are too big. I like the model, but I don't want to paint one.

I want grey knights and some imperial guardsmen. Also I like chimeras and rhinos, just not any of the proper tanks.

You can make a pretty powerful mechanized Infantry IG army Veterans driving around in Chimeras unloading and flame templating or plasma throwing or melta melting enemies. Also low on body count.

Did I mention I have .....8 Chimeras.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 30, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
I only want about four guard squads at the very most (Steel legion, Mordian, Vostroyan, Valhallan). I don't like the old rip-off plastics.

Plus I demand rhinos. Rhinos are the coolest boxes in the world.

And I want teleporting grey knights. They are like space marines, except not lame.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on June 30, 2011, 02:15:00 PM
Hmmm I think the grey knights are lame and love space wolves....guys plastering paper on their armour thinking it will help them against demons and ghosts (which donīt exist) pfffft...LAME.

So you might be stuck with demon hunters corteaz or four inquisitors with four chimera squads and 2 rhino grey knights squads.

I have about 40 steel legion models and never use them (nor paint them but that is business as usual) I played Aldaris two times and actually liked 40k but there was no occasion I could play another game yet.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on June 30, 2011, 02:25:18 PM
So you might be stuck with demon hunters corteaz or four inquisitors with four chimera squads and 2 rhino grey knights squads.

Not possible. Inquisitors are HQ choices, so max two per army. If you want 4 guard squads the only way to go is Coteaz.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 30, 2011, 04:30:25 PM
I have about 40 steel legion models and never use them

You could sell them to me!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on June 30, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
Why buy used Steel Legionaries when you can have a new squad of ten with random special weapons for only Ģ21?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1490651&rootCatGameStyle= (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1490651&rootCatGameStyle=)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 30, 2011, 05:17:27 PM
Because I would get them more cheaply from Fandir!

But I was planning to buy new ones from GW.

I am amused that the rubbish plastic models are now almost as expensive as the metal ones... Ģ18 for ten Cadians that cost Ģ15 for twenty a few years ago. No thanks!


It's a shame all the inquisitors look silly.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on June 30, 2011, 06:02:35 PM
It is, because I have two spare which you will now never have.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on June 30, 2011, 07:48:59 PM
Because I would get them more cheaply from Fandir!

But I was planning to buy new ones from GW.

I am amused that the rubbish plastic models are now almost as expensive as the metal ones... Ģ18 for ten Cadians
I didn't know that. Ģ21 for ten Valhallans suddenly doesn't look so bad.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on June 30, 2011, 08:03:09 PM
yes! I was just thinking "those metal IG sqauds are actually cheap now".
The same price as gold swords. Ridiculous.


I quite like the plastic IG, but the metal squads are so much more characterful... Valhallans or Tallarnians(?) for me.

Or Vostroyans. I almost got a massive load of vostroyans for cheap when the person on ebay put them up for sale without any pictures and spelled vostroyans wrong, but they obviously realised and ended the auction 2 days before it was finished.

Rufus, are you actually going to do this then? I could try and paint up my IG army and we could maybe have a battle sometime! (although I do need the rulebook)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on June 30, 2011, 09:46:15 PM
I handed all my IG stuff to my son, only keeping my Taniths and a squad of plastic that I had given rebreathers and stuff to look grenadiery. I planned to use them as Inquisitorial storm troopers to bolster my Sisters of Battle. Then comes the rumours about the Sisters becoming stand alone with no Inquisitors and stormtroopers. Gone was my idea, just as I had aquired some neat old metal minis in local shop.
However, I started to consider getting more of those old metal, since the shop had quite a few. Mordians, tallrans and even some metal cadians!

I am considering making an all veteran force made up of survivors from several regiments and pulled together by a badass lord commisar. They would be light infantry. Almost no tanks, just some sentinels and a lone russ commanded by an unorthodox tank ace called Oddball. A true all-imperial force.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on June 30, 2011, 10:01:49 PM
It is, because I have two spare which you will now never have.

Oh, go on!


Quote from: Finlay
Rufus, are you actually going to do this then?

I want to. I've always liked the metal imperial guard models... but whether this will be like my orcs (large army painted quickly) or my dark elves (never even finished painting one unit of cold ones) I don't know.

I'm not sure how much I actually want to play 40K either. I've played it a couple of times with my nephew (he has blood angels and tau), and it was sort of fun.

I'll see if I can get anything cheap from ebay first.

I have just painted my old commisar Yarrick. It's so goofy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Odominus on June 30, 2011, 11:08:14 PM
Chinese 40k Cosplay

http://digitalwastrel.blogspot.com/2011/06/40k-musical-cosplay.html

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 01, 2011, 07:52:41 AM
Old news Old man.


Well I am kind of fond of my steel legion. I got the whole bunch of them with the 8 chimeras, 2 leman russ, 3 Sentinels and a hellhound for 80 €. I already traded my (partially painted) Space wolves, oh I especially liked the venerable dreadnought, for the beautifully painted wood elf army of a friend (to complete my Fandir has all the good armies hidden away somewhere thingy).

I liked 40K I played with Eldar in that long ago edition where there were no real squads and you could order each individual soldier to go into overwatch and compared the weapon skill to see how many hits you score, I disliked Eldar then because everyone played them and decided for Space wolves (only guy playing space marines in the store at that time) then left it alone for a long time (fantasy too) and then 6th edition Fantasy brought me back and the love for Empire/Imperium/Imperial Guard, another friend quit 40k and wanted to get rid of his steel legion.

I like the idea of fielding over 100 models each game with myriads of heavy weapons and plasma throwers (my guys might die but more of yours will). I got slaughtered by Aldaris in two games but my plan was not bad and I blame bad dice rolls to my failure. So would like to stick to my Steel legion possibly get more and someday play 40k again.

(I really like the Stormtroopers too I already have about 15 but need more special weapons....should get those ones too...oh the 15 metal storm troopers were also in the 80 € ....and 4 commisars, and that solar maximus silly guy).

I like this kommisar

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-COMMISSAR-2.html (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-COMMISSAR-2.html)

Talking about.....dreamworld of Fandir once he has money again.....getting 2 more squads of Steel Legion and fill up with another 4-5 Squads of Death Korps of Krieg...they are my very most favourite IG unit especially the horses.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-INFANTRY-SQUAD-ADVANCING.html (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-INFANTRY-SQUAD-ADVANCING.html)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/Sheep_06/Death%20Korps%20of%20Krieg/011-2.jpg (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/Sheep_06/Death%20Korps%20of%20Krieg/011-2.jpg)

http://deathkorps.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/100_0648.jpg (http://deathkorps.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/100_0648.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 01, 2011, 10:51:39 AM
Death Korps are resin! Boooo!


So, grey knights: are they any good? Assuming I won't use the dreadknight (ludicrous model) or any land raiders (too big and boring).

Also, is 40K due another edition any time soon?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 01, 2011, 10:55:35 AM
Resin Schmesin....they are pretty.

Hmm I am bidding now on ebay for about 60 metal miniatures IG....how did that happen? (I wonīt get them for what I have offered though)

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260807496409&category=8656&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619 (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260807496409&category=8656&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619)

 :lol:

Valhallans are nice too

Steel legion look like Fallschirmjäger and the Vallhallans like German Ostfront troops.


(also ebay guy....old Reiksguard 14 with full command for 34 € so far.....insane not to bid donīt you think?)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 01, 2011, 11:00:05 AM
Is there a 40K forum that won't melt my brain?


Resin Schmesin....they are pretty.

Until they shatter like your hopes.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 01, 2011, 11:01:23 AM
As I will never buy them my hopes will go on foreeeeeeeeeevaaaaaar.


I think we should make a warhammer Empire 40k subforum as all other forums are shite....as finlay proved.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 01, 2011, 11:04:57 AM
Well, this is the 40K subforum!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 01, 2011, 12:11:24 PM
Also, is 40K due another edition any time soon?

Next year for certain!

Trust me, that is all I know...  :biggriin:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 01, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
I think GK are meant to be good, yes.



Really a new edition is due?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 01, 2011, 02:18:31 PM
Yes 6th ed. is strongly rumoured to be released next summer with a shitload of changes.

Expect heavy faqs for many army books for them even to work.

I suspect the same size as WFB 8th and the same big production.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 01, 2011, 02:28:34 PM
Well, that's ages away.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 01, 2011, 02:29:53 PM
Yes 6th ed. is strongly rumoured to be released next summer with a shitload of changes.

Expect heavy faqs for many army books for them even to work.

I suspect the same size as WFB 8th and the same big production.

But Why?

I thought they'd got it right with this latest edition from all I'd heard - I even had a couple of games myself after it first came out, and it seemed fine.




Edit; Slap myself - of course - they need to make people spend more money, waste trees on thick expensive books, and generally waste time on something unnecessary when they could be redoing a codex or army book.

Now they have made it personal ..........................

 :icon_rolleyes:



Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 01, 2011, 03:08:51 PM
The grey knights are more expensive, points wise, than regular space marines, but they really get a lot of goodies for those points.

So in general, GK will be fewer in models then space marines, but those models are superb. Their obvious flaws are: low model count, still space marines (just as "easy" to kill).
More specific, the troop choice of the GK, the GK strike squads have one drawback: their 1 attack, it hurts them to be charged.
But other than that then here are the pros against regular marines:
Hammerhand (+1strength in CC (stacks))
Forceweapons on everything with better Force weapon rules (one test to make all wounds instant killing)
Stormbolters, better than lame bolters
+1 strength on storm bolters
Better vehicles by far (ignore shaken and stunned with a ld10 test)
dakka dreads, 2 twinlinked autocannons with stength 8
Librarians are awesome.
Grandmasters are awesome.
everything is awesome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 01, 2011, 03:10:20 PM
I love the new grey knight codex... :P



Oh and i think a 40k sub forum is needed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 01, 2011, 03:44:54 PM
OK, so what's good in a grey knight army then? Which are the most generally useful units? What are the best weapons (psicannons seem to be popular)? Are inquisitors good? Can I avoid using dreadknights and landraiders without a problem?

Is it ridiculous that I quite want one of those orangutans?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 01, 2011, 04:41:48 PM
Usually, when I play, I dont have points left for the dreadknight and landraider so sure!
The thing with making a grey knight army is that you need to have a plan for every unit, because they are so few or expensive.

Usually, I run (in 1500-1750pts) 2x10 normal grey knights with a mastercrafted hammer, 2 psycannons, psy ammo (+1s stormbolters) in a rhino. they add up to 300 points per unit and are very capable of adding alot of fire power.
But they only have range 24" so they need something long range:
The most usefull and cheese option. Dakka dread, 2 twinlinked autocannons with Strength upgrade. Only 135pts each. A bargain!
Another long range option is the callidus assasin whom I love. She can take out the enemy's long range units with ease.
From there I usually add whatever I want.

Inquisitors are cool because they are so super cheap, and the xeno inquisitor can get some good upgrades, the ordo malleus (my fluff favourite) can get a daemon blade which will make him awesome.
He is also an independent character and can take small arms armour saves if he is with the grey knights (not possible if they are 10 in a unit in a rhino) because of his 3 wounds.
The other hq choices are also good, but super expensive = less units.

The henchmen warband is fricking awesome! 6 Death cultists will rip through everything! 8 psykers plus some warriors as bodyguard are also quite good firepower (adds a pie plate which is a rare sight in the GK army)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 01, 2011, 04:42:33 PM
I think that we had a GK discussion in my 40k blog further down in the count's tavern :)

Or maybe it was a thread for it self.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 01, 2011, 08:53:44 PM
Now they have made it personal ..........................

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Other/richtertotalrecall.jpg)

It's about goddamn time!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on July 02, 2011, 11:35:28 AM
Grey knights are ridiculous. I think it was written by the same fool who did that space marine book, which was also ridiculous.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 02, 2011, 11:44:07 AM
What is ridiculous about them?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 02, 2011, 12:02:39 PM
A deal of the fluff in the new book. The rules are fine though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 02, 2011, 04:36:19 PM
I purchased the Grey Knight codex just to read how badly the background had been written, but I have not yet had the chance to go through it in detail.  Just skimming through though, I started to get the impression it was a bit over the top.

Rufus Sparkfire: If you want a good 40K forum to join, send me a PM for further details. 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 03, 2011, 10:41:43 AM
40K fluff is supposed to be ridiculous though, surely.


Thanks for the info, McKnight!

How about the terminators? Are they good in fives or do you need bigger squads? Swords or halberds?



The most usefull and cheese option. Dakka dread, 2 twinlinked autocannons with Strength upgrade. Only 135pts each. A bargain!

Is there a model for this? It doesn't look as though any autocannons come with the standard dreadnought.

I like the sound of that though!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 03, 2011, 10:48:52 AM
Auocannons for dreads FW and shiny resin.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Gneisenau on July 03, 2011, 10:50:14 AM
Auocannons for dreads FW and shiny resin.

Yup.

Forge World also has a nice pre-heresy dreadnought. Expensive, but nice.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 03, 2011, 10:50:29 AM
You can get left and right autocannon arms at forgeworld. And those Dakka-dreads are really nasty - 4 rerollable S8 shots mounted on a frame that has a psi-power to ignore shaken and stunned... that thing just eats most vehicles.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 03, 2011, 11:11:42 AM
I played a couple games with my Vanilla Marines. For funsies.

My list was along the lines of:

Chapter Master Artificer Armor, Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Aux Grenade Launcher

Honor Guard (6) with Aux Grenade Launchers, Banner, and Relic Blade for Chapter Champion

Dedicated Rhino with Xtra Armor, Storm Bolter

2x Dreadnaughts w/ Assault Cannon, CC Weapon, Flamer

Predator with TL Lascannons, Hvy Bolters and Pintle Storm Bolter and Xtra Armor

2x Tac Squads 10ea. with Plasma Cannon and Flamer, Sergeant with Power Fist

Dev Squad 9ea. with 4 Lascannons, Sergeant with Power Fist

Assault Terminators 5 with SS and TH, 3 with LC

Was about 2k points.

I played two guys with tournament lists, so I expected to lose, but I wanted to have fun, and I did.

Played a game against a Necron player with 2 Monoliths and absolutely zero guys on the table for the first two turns. I got decimated, of course, and only managed to glance one monolith a couple times in spite of concentrating all of my lascannons at it for 4 turns (I roll dice good  :::cheers::: ) I took out his 3 Supah Destroya's, and a couple immortals and a few warriors, and one of his monoliths had a -3 to it's Arc rolls, but that was it. Still, I get an almost sadistic glee from getting my marines killed in interesting ways, so it was fun for me regardless.  :biggriin:



Then I played a Wolf player with 10 Razorbacks with little 5 man squads scattered within. 4 of the razors had TL Assault Cannons, the rest had Lascannon and TL Plasma Guns.

I actually did really really well in this game, but his sheer numbers eventually took me out. The best part was when he took a charge from my honor guard with Chapter Master into his HQ squad, and I kept having to remind him why each of my guys got 5 power weapon attacks (2 base, one for charging, one for banner, one for pistol). He dedicated ALL of his shooting at them in the following turn, and they died a glorious death. And my Assault Terminators walked across the table, and just kept making their saves (though they failed two panic tests  :happy: ). I said: "I believe in you!" before each set of rolls, and my last Termie died when I forgot to repeat that mantra. Oops. I didn't believe in him and he died.  :oops: But he pasted a wolf priest before he went  :::cheers::: . Eventually his numbers told the story, but he only had 5 razorbacks left, and only 4 of his 8 little squads were left. Moral victory! And a blast.

I know my list is NOT good, and I only used it this one day for funs, I just thought you guys would like to hear about it. :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 03, 2011, 11:49:36 AM
Good to hear you had fun. And I won't comment on your list - if you like playing it it's fine.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 03, 2011, 03:11:38 PM
GK termies are awesome. I just sometimes miss the storm shield which the regular termies have access to.
Aldaris pointed out to me that the halberds are the best choice, because they strike with I6 (before pretty much anything) and with hammerhand they will have s5.
But i actually also like a sword and a falchion maybe, just to take some powerweapon saves and to add some more attacks. But the hammer and halberd are most definitely the preferred weapons!

Sounds fun Cannon!
My space wolf opponent usually deploys long fangs en masse instead of razor spam, I didnt know wolves were good at that :o
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 03, 2011, 03:22:03 PM
This is making me want to paint my IG. Although I'm also sad I sold my 13th company space wolves.

I can only imagine what being part of a thriving community would inspire me to paint like.

Rufus' orcs definitely spurred me on with my own.

Would you 40k players say that 2000 point is more or less "standard" now? It used to be 1500 back in the day.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 03, 2011, 03:33:55 PM
Hm. I just tried fooling around with onlinecodex - Space Wolves can combat squad, right? In that case it's pretty easy to make a list with 9 razorbacks with various armaments, each with 5 Grey Hunters (6 with meltas 3 with flamers), a Wolf Lord with good kit and a runepriest with good kit plus three dev squads with 5 launchers each at 2000 points. Should be pretty tough. 3 squads can't start embarked though because their razorbacks will be those of the dev squads, but hey - hide behind them and climb in turn one. Not my style, but it should work.

@ Finlay: depends on where you play. Around here it's mostly 2000, but in many areas 1750 or 1500 seems to be the norm.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 03, 2011, 04:31:01 PM
Yes it really depends where you play. We play around 1500-1750pts here in Denmark.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 03, 2011, 04:33:02 PM
2000 is the norm where we play but I still see mostly 1750 pts games overall.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 03, 2011, 10:26:22 PM
I wouldn't say 2000 points is the standard in the UK.  From discussing this with others, I get the impression that 1500 or 1750 is more the standard total.  1850 and 2000 points seem pretty common as well, but not to the same extent as the previous two.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 04, 2011, 11:54:17 AM
I bought an imperial guard army book on ebay, while trying to find grey knights.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 04, 2011, 02:48:05 PM
I bought an imperial guard army book on ebay, while trying to find grey knights.

You're not very good at this..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 04, 2011, 03:24:24 PM
On the contrary, he did just the right thing.  :closed-eyes: After all, he is still in 40K, which proves he is able to channel his attention admirably well compared to... well, disregard that.

Anyway, Grey Knights are for pansies, real men play Orkz, Guards or Sisters of Battle.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 04, 2011, 05:31:50 PM
Anyway, Grey Knights are for pansies, real men play Orkz, Guards or Sisters of Battle.  :engel:
Glad you used the operative word "or". :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 04, 2011, 06:37:11 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about but yeah, I really like to play with my nuns.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 04, 2011, 10:02:16 PM
I still want grey knights. I just felt compelled to buy the imperial guard book.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 04, 2011, 10:08:01 PM
I still want grey knights. I just felt compelled to buy the imperial guard book.

This reminds me of shiny new toy syndrome  :icon_wink:.

After you have read the Imperial Guard book, you may decide you prefer them to Grey Knights after all.  If I were forced to play an Imperial army, however, I would opt for the Grey Knights, even before the latest codex was released.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 05, 2011, 03:40:11 AM
Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html)

Looks very ... anime.

(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/large/contemptor24.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 05, 2011, 04:07:28 AM
So ... sombody clue me in ... from a fluff perspective, why do these grey knights get this advanced stuff, above other space marine chapters?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 05, 2011, 05:58:06 AM
They are like the bestests of the bestests space marines.

Plus they have all kinds of powers - except against pimped BTs and Hounds.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 05, 2011, 07:59:14 AM
Well they are the demon police a secret order of Space Marines dedicated to fight Chaos and Chaos only. Wasnīt there a rumour that their geneseed is from the Emperor himself?

I am not that much into the Grey knights fluff but as far as I know they are the super ultra elite strike force going in if a planet is threatened to be demon infested. So actually it would be unfluffy to field them against any other army but Chaos. (well you can always claim that that Guard/Space Marine/Eldar/Tau Commander is possessed and must be stopped before the greater demon breaks out of him).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 05, 2011, 08:14:37 AM
Well they are the demon police a secret order of Space Marines dedicated to fight Chaos and Chaos only. Wasnīt there a rumour that their geneseed is from the Emperor himself?

I am not that much into the Grey knights fluff but as far as I know they are the super ultra elite strike force going in if a planet is threatened to be demon infested. So actually it would be unfluffy to field them against any other army but Chaos. (well you can always claim that that Guard/Space Marine/Eldar/Tau Commander is possessed and must be stopped before the greater demon breaks out of him).

Also, they live on Mars.

You should read the Grey Knights novel from the Black Library, Fandir, it's actually a good one.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Generalisimo on July 05, 2011, 08:21:14 AM
I think that even the people of Impirial guard don t know of their existance, and after a battle that both the guardsmen and the grey knights  fight together, the guardsmen are slaughtered so noone will ever know the grey knights apiarence.  They probably do that to protect their fortress or something from being revieled.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 05, 2011, 08:48:57 AM
Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html)

Looks very ... anime.


Aren't those Megatron's legs?



Quote
Also, they live on Mars.

Titan, I thought.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 05, 2011, 09:53:40 AM
Aren't those Megatron's legs?

Yes they are, and I can hear Starscream in the background yelling "Retreat!".
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 05, 2011, 09:57:03 AM
I hate that dreadnaught.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 05, 2011, 10:07:02 AM
Also, they live on Mars.

Nope, on Titan, one of the Saturn moons. Mars is the home and primary forgeworld of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 05, 2011, 10:20:19 AM
I think that dreadnought is rather nice he looks more agile than the sacrophagus big chunky metal dreads the space marines use now.

I also like the Manga look of the TAU army though so I might disqualify myself.

Aldaris, next time you come around we should play a bit of 40k again I might even paint a model or two before you come.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on July 05, 2011, 10:31:04 AM
It's supposed to be an older design from when humanity viewed science as science and not as another religion, so it's not a surprise it's closer to the Tau aesthetic. I like it in the context of its background, but agree it's out of place in a "modern" space marine force. Astral Claw colour scheme and iconography are awesome though. The current forgeworld stuff is really good, love the Badab war models.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 05, 2011, 10:31:52 AM
I like the Tau manga style.

I hate the manga style on space marines.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 05, 2011, 11:13:11 AM
I think space marines are pretty mangaish in the first place large shoulderpads and we donīt need a helmet for our battle suit.

Yet I love the concept of Angry marines

http://www.vertigo.ripvanfish.com/umad/src/1287289421073.jpg (http://www.vertigo.ripvanfish.com/umad/src/1287289421073.jpg)

especially with afro

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15083746/images/1306614339011.jpg (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15083746/images/1306614339011.jpg)

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7423974/images/1262637251749.jpg (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7423974/images/1262637251749.jpg)

and their launcher

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/s0693098/angrymarinelauncher.jpg (http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/s0693098/angrymarinelauncher.jpg)

As manga as marines can get. (and I love it)

Well only ones more Mangaish must be the pretty marines

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/101/4/6/Pretty_Marines_II_by_Jaekyu.jpg (http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/101/4/6/Pretty_Marines_II_by_Jaekyu.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 05, 2011, 11:57:49 AM
The angry marines are da best!  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 05, 2011, 11:58:20 AM
They are like the bestests of the bestests space marines.

Plus they have all kinds of powers - except against pimped BTs and Hounds.
Ok, yet what does the fluff say about why they are so special?

Well they are the demon police a secret order of Space Marines dedicated to fight Chaos and Chaos only. Wasnīt there a rumour that their geneseed is from the Emperor himself?

I am not that much into the Grey knights fluff but as far as I know they are the super ultra elite strike force going in if a planet is threatened to be demon infested. So actually it would be unfluffy to field them against any other army but Chaos. (well you can always claim that that Guard/Space Marine/Eldar/Tau Commander is possessed and must be stopped before the greater demon breaks out of him).
So its seems they get to test out advanced technology with the look of their figures?  Or wasn't that suppose to be the Mentors?  Maybe the Grey Knights technology gives them special powers against demons and chaos only?  I suppose that woudl include Chaos space marines?  Do the rules reflect any of this or instead they can beat up on anybody?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 05, 2011, 12:00:20 PM
I think that even the people of Impirial guard don t know of their existance, and after a battle that both the guardsmen and the grey knights  fight together, the guardsmen are slaughtered so noone will ever know the grey knights apiarence.  They probably do that to protect their fortress or something from being revieled.
Hmmm ... so why can no one know of their existence?  They only show up to face the demons of 40K, take them out, if they can, and no one knows?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 05, 2011, 12:13:37 PM
GP....

I dont know where to start.

Okay.
Grey knights are elite space marines. They dont have a home world for recruiting. Their recruits are all psychic and only one in a thousand make it through the training.
They have super weapons because of their task and their training. Their minds are inpenetrable by chaos, so they are very valuable to the Imperium. Which is why they get the nice weapons.

Like already mentioned, the Grey knights book, and the other two in the omnibus really give a good insight of how they work. They also show that chaos and daemons can be anywhere so there is ample opportunity for the grey knights to meet evil guardsmen or eldar or whatever.
Also the daemonhunters codex actually had two pages of reasons for why the daemon hunters should be fighting every race, a nice detail.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 05, 2011, 12:18:26 PM
Suppose that makes sense, with them being specially in tune even before they get the special equiptment.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on July 05, 2011, 12:44:15 PM
I like the Tau manga style.

I hate the manga style on space marines.
Agreed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 05, 2011, 03:01:42 PM
Agreed too, but Angry Marines are more than Manga, they are just Angry and Awesome.

But otherwise I agree that the Manga influence should be kept with the Tau because that is their thing and what makes them different.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 05, 2011, 10:51:35 PM
Also, they live on Mars.

Nope, on Titan, one of the Saturn moons. Mars is the home and primary forgeworld of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

That's right! I'm dumb. 40,000 is not my year.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on July 06, 2011, 01:06:50 AM
Hah, what a faux pas. Mars.

 :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 06, 2011, 09:50:29 AM
Now I have the grey knights army book!

I love all the inquisitor options and henchmen. Too bad you have to use Cortez the Killer or whatever he is called if you want henchmen troop choices.

Not only does he look like a small-headed fool (the classic 'power armor but no helmet' problem), but he is only available in resin. Which means I either have to get a metal one from ebay, or make my own version of him (easily done, apart from the robot eagle thing he has).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 06, 2011, 09:58:46 AM
He is ridiculously cool! What are you  talking about ?:P
His small head is justified since he isn't a space marine.

I think a mix of henchmen and grey knights would be the best option for the army, compared to an all henchmen army.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 06, 2011, 10:53:16 AM
Anyone in power armor but not wearing a helmet looks absurd. It's a fact.

I do intend to use grey knights as well as henchmen, but Cortez the Killer is essential if you want to have more than a token number of henchmen units. So he's in.

And then I will use a more interesting inquisitor as my other HQ. I like demon blades!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 06, 2011, 11:29:09 AM
You mean Torquemada Coteaz? I hate that model too! We're hate buddies!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 06, 2011, 01:24:58 PM
Anyone in power armor but not wearing a helmet looks absurd. It's a fact.

I do intend to use grey knights as well as henchmen, but Cortez the Killer is essential if you want to have more than a token number of henchmen units. So he's in.

And then I will use a more interesting inquisitor as my other HQ. I like demon blades!
I plan on using the Castellan crowe model for my daemon blade inquisitor. The model has a lot of inquisitorial =I= on it, and the daemon blade is two handed :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 06, 2011, 03:37:38 PM
I quite like Crowe!

But not for Ģ10.


You mean Torquemada Coteaz? I hate that model too! We're hate buddies!

I don't hate him. I just think his head looks comically small.




Also, it's funny how reading forums tends to put you off wanting to play a game. By which I mean it isn't funny at all. I've been reading 40K forums, and it's all 'transports are too powerful and also you will never win any games ever because you gave your models the wrong weapons.'

I wonder if this forum puts people off playing Empire?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 06, 2011, 03:44:45 PM
what forum are you on?

I think the forum probably does put people off as well, too much off topic stuff allowed in areas outside CT and BT
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 06, 2011, 03:55:04 PM
What annoys me with other forums is that if you are new, you often get jumped on by established members, who know all their is to know, and often have fixed ideas on how good/bad something is.

What I like about coming here is that people will reply to your posts without imediately going X is poor, use Y instead.

Rufus, I don't think there is such a thing as "the wrong weapon" in 40k.  The newer books tend to have very little rubbish in them.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 06, 2011, 03:57:17 PM
I wonder if this forum puts people off playing Empire?

It sure as hell would put me off, if I spent most of the time in the Electors Forum.

All this whining that's going on in almost any game-related forum is purely annoying and very offputting. And I don't give a rats ass if complaints are legitimate. If they make up the majority of conversations it's gonna kill the love, just like in a relationship.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 06, 2011, 04:19:06 PM
Thats why I don't post in Electors forum very much Aldaris!  I can't remember the last time I posted in their on a topic I didn't post up myself!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 06, 2011, 05:37:25 PM
I haven't actually joined a 40K forum yet. I've just been reading them.

The general tone is quite discouraging. I think I need to be more careful about the sort of posts I make here.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 06, 2011, 05:46:32 PM
I can recommend Librarium Online, I have had a relatively good time on there Rufus.  Warseer in the 40k Forum is brutal, but their specialist games forums are helpful.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 06, 2011, 06:18:02 PM
What annoys me with other forums is that if you are new, you often get jumped on by established members, who know all their is to know, and often have fixed ideas on how good/bad something is.

What I like about coming here is that people will reply to your posts without imediately going X is poor, use Y instead.

Rufus, I don't think there is such a thing as "the wrong weapon" in 40k.  The newer books tend to have very little rubbish in them.
I think thats what this forum is like tbh.

And also, the anti GW stuff must be grating, as Adaris says.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 06, 2011, 06:19:58 PM
It causes me physical pain to agree with Finlay, but I do. Fortunately I can offset this by claiming I agree only with Aldaris and pretending Finlay doesn't exist, as agreeing with Aldaris is currently socially acceptable.

Established forum members here do jump on newbies sometimes. Just like every other forum. Maybe not as much, but it happens.

Case in point, Sword of Justice.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 06, 2011, 06:31:36 PM
IG pictures! sorry the pictures are so bad, its dark here.
Squad one.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/squad.jpg)


Squad 2
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/squad2.jpg)

Sarge, lasgun and plas.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/sargeandplas.jpg)

Sarge
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/sarge2.jpg)

Another Sarge
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/sarge.jpg)

MEtal cadians
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/metalcadians.jpg)

MEtal sarge
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/metalsarge.jpg)

Commanders
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/2commanders.jpg)

WIP kitbashed veterans, with pig iron heads.

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/kitbash2.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/kitbash1.jpg)

I forgot just how green they were... Might need to choose a different colour for their armour plates... ideas?

I have 2 chimeras, a basilisk, a leman russ and a demolisher which I need to paint.
And also all my heavy weapons.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 06, 2011, 06:32:23 PM
Know how I said your painting has improved leaps and bounds?

I take it all back.

 :engel:

On a serious note, the shiny sheen the models have, is that the flash of the camera?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 06, 2011, 06:37:04 PM
...as agreeing with Aldaris is currently socially acceptable.

Currently?
Ha!

@ Finlay: Nice guardsmen! I am looking forward to see that Commander painted!
 :wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 06, 2011, 06:37:33 PM
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/gallery/forever-alone/forever-alone-guy-painting.jpg)

Know how I said your painting has improved leaps and bounds?

I take it all back.

 :engel:

On a serious note, the shiny sheen the models have, is that the flash of the camera?
Yes, it's PISSING down outside. so dark, I had to use flash.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 06, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
It causes me physical pain to agree with Finlay, but I do. Fortunately I can offset this by claiming I agree only with Aldaris and pretending Finlay doesn't exist, as agreeing with Aldaris is currently socially acceptable.

Established forum members here do jump on newbies sometimes. Just like every other forum. Maybe not as much, but it happens.

Case in point, Sword of Justice.

I just want to point out that I was nice to that particular new guy, and even defended him vehemently against others. Cuz I'm a good guy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 06, 2011, 06:41:19 PM
Like that here now, flash is the only option in that case. They're fine Finlay, especially as you'll need over 100 of them!

Currently?
Ha!

Well yes, when I posted that it was acceptable, as otherwise I would have to agree with Finlay.

Now though? Get back to your holding, peasant. Go scrounge up some turnips.

I just want to point out that I was nice to that particular new guy, and even defended him vehemently against others. Cuz I'm a good guy.

I just want to point out that you're still next.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 06, 2011, 06:44:41 PM
Now though? Get back to your holding, peasant. Go scrounge up some turnips.

I already ate, you welsh sheep shagger.
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 06, 2011, 06:58:06 PM
I hate painting tanks but love painting Daemons.

That said, were is the 40K subforum?  :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 06, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
I hate painting tanks but love painting Daemons.

That said, were is the 40K subforum?  :closed-eyes:

You're in it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 06, 2011, 07:27:24 PM
I don't think my Ig are that bad!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 06, 2011, 07:29:47 PM
Also, it's funny how reading forums tends to put you off wanting to play a game. By which I mean it isn't funny at all. I've been reading 40K forums, and it's all 'transports are too powerful and also you will never win any games ever because you gave your models the wrong weapons.'

You just have to work out who is talking sense, and who is talking rubbish.  My advice would be to avoid contributors who only advocate one way of playing the game, most of whom are WAAC players, as I find that they take all the enjoyment out of the game.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 06, 2011, 07:39:18 PM
You're in it.

Cutting down on space are we?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 06, 2011, 08:09:02 PM
You just need to highligth them with a lighter green to give them a good contrast! :O
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 06, 2011, 08:51:47 PM
Nice guard Finley,

Mine are in urban camo :)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300285.jpg)

Whats up with the Sword of Justice?  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 06, 2011, 08:55:30 PM
Urban camo, then a lush green field! Lovely models, but the bases look weird.


There was a long thread about the sword of justice, someone wanted to use it for a wizard to let them re roll wounds.
Everyone sane said this was stupid rules lawyery.
Everyone insane said that it was allowed.

It got heated.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 06, 2011, 09:02:23 PM
Urban camo, then a lush green field! Lovely models, but the bases look weird.


There was a long thread about the sword of justice, someone wanted to use it for a wizard to let them re roll wounds.
Everyone sane said this was stupid rules lawyery.
Everyone insane said that it was allowed.

It got heated.

Of course it got heated when people posted like that.  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 06, 2011, 09:08:26 PM
A wizard using a projectile spell?  Really?  That is really dumb lol.  I didn't think we had many rules as written people here.  Glad I don't really read the main forum on here very much anymore, as I don't use Empire atm.  [Skaven only in current edition  ::heretic::]

You are always going to have some issues when you argue against the general agreement on a site.  I remember being involved in many 6th edition debates on spears vs hand weapons, but they were good natured [at least I thought so]

You do need to avoid WACCY players wherever you post.  I am not especially competative, I will always use things I like, rather than things which are "the best" even if they are insane.  For example, I own 3 forge world chaos dreadnaughts.  Anyone who knows anything about the chaos 40k book will know that these are generally seen as terrible.  Still, I love the models so one or two occasionally comes along, and then I have to cross my fingers and hope I don't kill all my own soldiers.

My bases match my table, its basically flock green, the brown is there for contrast.  We do however have a huge amount of cities of death buildings [around Ģ130s worth] so we often play in urban settings too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 06, 2011, 09:12:03 PM
You do need to avoid WACCY players wherever you post.

Pretty hard when the definition changes per person.

I find some people here to be WAAC players, whilst extolling the virtues of fluff and justice or some nonsense. Yet they would be the first to cry WAAC with anyone disagreeing on any point.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 06, 2011, 09:18:31 PM
I am not especially competative, I will always use things I like, rather than things which are "the best" even if they are insane.  For example, I own 3 forge world chaos dreadnaughts.  Anyone who knows anything about the chaos 40k book will know that these are generally seen as terrible.  Still, I love the models so one or two occasionally comes along, and then I have to cross my fingers and hope I don't kill all my own soldiers.

You can mitigate against this, depending on your weapon choices, so they are not necessarily as terrible as some would have you believe.  They are not recommended though by most players, I agree.

My Chaos army includes all sorts of units which are meant to be terrible, such as Chaos Spawn and Possessed, but I really love the models, so I use them for that reason.  Besides what comes around goes around in 40K.  Just because they are not great now, does not mean that they will always be so, which is why WAAC players who spam one or two unit types in their army tend to get their fingers burnt when there is a change of edition/codex.  It's all the more reason to field balanced armies in my opinion.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 06, 2011, 09:25:45 PM
I think I am naturally unlucky with my chaos dreadnaughts.  I have one with a twinlinked lascannon and missile launcher which is a serious no go in the current rule set, one with a plasmacannon and dcw which is okay if placed near a landraider, and one with two combat arms [which does mitigate virtually all the issues]

I always seem to fire frenzy in the early part of the game, when they are near my own units, rather than later on, when it would be more benificial!

I have used chaos spawns myself, as wound absorbers for my dreadnaughts.  I can honestly say I have never used possessed, I never have the points for them, as if I do field elites, I normally use small numbers of chaos terminators [booo a competative unit!]

Chaos dreads will be good when they eventually get a new model, as they will want to sell people it.  The current metal ones have not aged well.

WAAC does vary player to player, but most players have a general idea what WAAC will entail.  I don't neccersarily go into fluff full force, but I do tend to build my army around a theme.   Now depending on the theme, it could end up as a WAAC list [or what some consider a WAAC list, eg nuln list with all artillery and handgun units] or it could end up fluffy and relatively weak.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 06, 2011, 09:42:18 PM
Possessed are just hit and miss.  If you roll Power Weapons or Rending, they can be rather dangerous, but their other abilities are not very impressive.  I don't use them all that often, but then I don't use my Chaos army all that much either, so it's all relative.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 06, 2011, 09:43:42 PM
Possessed are just hit and miss.  If you roll Power Weapons or Rending, they can be rather dangerous, but their other abilities are not very impressive.  I don't use them all that often, but then I don't use my Chaos army all that much either, so it's all relative.

I know the feeling, mine have been in a glass cabinet for almost a year by now.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 06, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
I know the feeling, mine have been in a glass cabinet for almost a year by now.

The whole issue with my Chaos army is that whenever I open the book, I find it so hard to get inspired, because of the tepid narrative aspect of the whole book.  Efforts to try to get more community involvement with Chaos in terms of article writing on another site also didn't generate much interest, which was rather dispiriting.

It's for all these reasons I tend to focus on my Eldar, but I still have fun whenever I do field my Chaos force.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 07, 2011, 10:19:53 AM
Quote from: Finlay
I forgot just how green they were... Might need to choose a different colour for their armour plates... ideas?

Maybe grey?

They look good anyway.



On a different subject: what does a conversion beamer look like? How would you go about representing one?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 07, 2011, 10:42:35 AM
On a different subject: what does a conversion beamer look like? How would you go about representing one?

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQACid-__YZYcONeq11Gldkqwnk3cSYSEGY8DvJ3FjY781tGWU2)

or

(http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-content/uploads/gallery/2008-bmw-1-series-convertible/bmw-soft-top-convertible.jpg)

 :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 07, 2011, 10:45:02 AM
Lame.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 07, 2011, 10:47:11 AM
Lame.

Wouldn't it have to have legs to be that .................  :engel:

Maybe you should have said "punctured"  or "immobilised" ............   :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 07, 2011, 12:56:22 PM
I also wonder where the 40K subforum is? I figured this was the right thread to ask the question in.  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 07, 2011, 03:31:58 PM
How about this grey knights list?


Inquisitor Coteaz                     100                     
Malleus Inquisitor      demon blade, 3 skulls, power armour, brain mines               67
                     
10 grey knights      justicar with master crafted hammer                280
      incinerator               
      psycannon               
      3 with halberds               
      4 with swords               
      psybolts               
                     
      rhino               40
                     
6 terminators      justicar with master crafted hammer               270
      psycannon               
      2 with swords               
      2 with halberds               
                     
11 henchmen      9 acolytes with hot shot lasguns               105
      1 acolyte with meltagun               
      mystic               
                     
      chimera               55
                     
11 henchmen      5 death cult assassins               160
      5 crusaders               
      1 demonhost               
                     
      chimera               55
                     
5 interceptors      justicar with sword               160
      incinerator               
      1 with sword               
      2 with halberds               
                     
dreadnought      lascannon, missile launcher               150
                     
                  total = 1442  (aiming for 1500)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 07, 2011, 03:34:07 PM
You radical field a demonhost .....so no. :closed-eyes:


I am not very veteran in 40k (well post count wise we should need an extra 40k counter) but you seem lacking armour popping weapons.


Also browsing the interwebs I found a great Imperial guard converted army


yes it is German...but you guys should learn that language

http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902 (http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 07, 2011, 03:43:09 PM
Maybe if I had a vindicare assassin with his 4d6 shot of doom that would be sufficient to handle tanks?

I'll try to buy one on ebay. Or hilariously substitute a hobbit sniper for one... but I'm not sure 40K players have a sense of humor.



Also browsing the interwebs I found a great Imperial guard converted army

That is amazing.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 07, 2011, 03:44:27 PM
Well about as much as Fantasy players there are the good, the bad and the ugly.


Vindicare would be a great idea I think.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 07, 2011, 03:53:54 PM
When I was going to use a Vindicare I planned on using the miniature of Mad Larkin, as he is about as badass a sniper can be in 40K. Since rumours seems to say the Sisters will not have access to assassins (bar Deathcult ones), nor Inquisitors, Landraiders or Stormtroopers, Larkin is out of work.  :icon_frown:

But I guess I gotta build a compact badass IG army in the memory of Codex Catachan. Maybe just a single Russ driven by an elite tank ace some walkers and lots of die hard veterans.  :icon_mrgreen:

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 07, 2011, 05:42:34 PM
Well, if you want a stronger list then here is what I see you need to change:

The dreadnought needs 2 autocannons and psybolts instead of its current weaponry.

The henchmen squad with one melta needs additional 2 meltas.

The one group with 5 crusaders needs to be cut down, 2 is usually enough.
I dont see what the daemon host is doing. In my mind you need a lot of them to do some real damage.

Exchange the incinie on the interceptors with a psycannon. This gives you some more anti tank by shunting to the read of a tank and letting loose.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 07, 2011, 07:23:39 PM
Also browsing the interwebs I found a great Imperial guard converted army

yes it is German...but you guys should learn that language

http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902 (http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902)
Looks like grots to me.

Why speak German on that site, when I'm just looking at the pictures, and can speak english here? :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 07, 2011, 08:46:49 PM
On a different subject: what does a conversion beamer look like? How would you go about representing one?

Type 'Conversion Beamer' into Google, and you will be able to see lots of images of one.

You could also try finding pictures of the Master of the Forge, who can be equipped with this weapon.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 07, 2011, 08:50:06 PM
Can grey knights take a bike mount for their conversion beamer carrier?  With Space Marines, their Master of the Forge works best with a conversion beamer on a bike, to keep the distance as high as possible.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on July 07, 2011, 09:19:45 PM
Can grey knights take a bike mount for their conversion beamer carrier?

Not that I can see.

The Techmarine appears to be the only model which can be equipped with the Conversion Beamer, and he cannot be mounted on a bike.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 07, 2011, 10:29:49 PM
Is it worth buying the walky talky's for IG squads?

How do people tend to kit out the company command squads? I'm tempted to have 2 bs4 lascannons, but I guess this is a juicy expensive target which is very easy to kill.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 08, 2011, 05:17:03 AM
I think I am naturally unlucky with my chaos dreadnaughts.

You really should use them as CC Beasts combined with a crab or two with extra claws.

That is one heavy psychological factor.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 08, 2011, 07:51:55 AM
Hmmm I donīt think the vox are worth it for IG keep em cheap.

well you can hand the command group one lascannon and stick em in a chimera (always better).

I usually give them nothing but a lascannon and a melter. sticking them in a chimera and playing firebrigade should something armoured break through...oh and I like to field two of those...but as I have only played 3 games I am not someone you want to ask what he likes.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 08, 2011, 09:43:59 AM
Can grey knights take a bike mount for their conversion beamer carrier?  With Space Marines, their Master of the Forge works best with a conversion beamer on a bike, to keep the distance as high as possible.

The Ordo xenos inquisitor can also get it. Yum yum, cheap :D

Is it worth buying the walky talky's for IG squads?

How do people tend to kit out the company command squads? I'm tempted to have 2 bs4 lascannons, but I guess this is a juicy expensive target which is very easy to kill.
Depends on your army build.
If you are playing gunline, then they are good, but since heavy weapon squads can't get radios, its kinda wasted.
I usually play mechanized veterans and radios are useful to secure the important order going through at a critical moment, this of course means that the commander has to be close.
Therefore, I usually equip my command with 3 plasmas and a medic (no room for the radio), so no they arent worth it, I trust in the Emperor. :P

My friend who plays Death Korps of Krieg use the radios a lot! He has a normal command and a horsy command and their orders just boost the line so much. This is especially so because of the ability Krieg has to combine normal squads with heavy weapon squads, so that the heavy weapons have radios.
He also uses "Get back into the fight" very well!

Oh and you can only have one heavy weapon, so no two lascannons for you!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 08, 2011, 10:49:41 AM
Maybe I can make a psylencer into a conversion beamer by changing the muzzle for something else? I looked at various images (and the line drawing in the army book) but I'm still not clear on what it's meant to look like.


Well, if you want a stronger list then here is what I see you need to change:

The dreadnought needs 2 autocannons and psybolts instead of its current weaponry.

The henchmen squad with one melta needs additional 2 meltas.

The one group with 5 crusaders needs to be cut down, 2 is usually enough.
I dont see what the daemon host is doing. In my mind you need a lot of them to do some real damage.

Exchange the incinie on the interceptors with a psycannon. This gives you some more anti tank by shunting to the read of a tank and letting loose.

Thanks for the advice!

There are some model issues here though. Firstly, I bought a squad of ten metal grey knights on ebay... but it has two incinerators and one psycannon. I have one box of the plastic ones also, but since I can only have three heavy weapons in total I am stuck with the incinerators.

So is it better to have the psycannon on the interceptors and two incinerators on the strike squad?


Likewise, an autocannon dreadnought is difficult to obtain. As are extra meltaguns for my guardsmen. Crusaders were easy (free company with swords and shields) as were the death cult (dogs of war vesparo's vendetta!).


I included the demonhost because they are cool! I can see from their rules that they aren't up to much.



What do people use for psychic henchmen? They are supposed to be rogues, so the imperial guard ones are no good (and would look silly in groups anyway).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 08, 2011, 11:04:06 AM
Oooh well use the models that you want to use :)
Regarding the incinies and psycannons, I rarely use incinies so i would put 2 psycannons in the strike squad. The strike squads are supposed to be 24" away from the enemy, unless you have a juicy target to charge so a flamethrower wouldnt be that optimal.
The strike squad can use the incinie better with their shunt move, just like with the psycannon :) So that is your choice ;)

One of my friends are using the sanctioned psykers. They are made for the IG psyker battle squad so why not ours. I dont think they "have" to be rouge psykers?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 08, 2011, 11:33:04 AM
I think I have some plastic meltagun bits I can send you Rufus. They're from SM sprues, but they should still work for guardsmen. Let me know if you want them.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 08, 2011, 12:25:22 PM
Quote
Regarding the incinies and psycannons, I rarely use incinies so i would put 2 psycannons in the strike squad. The strike squads are supposed to be 24" away from the enemy, unless you have a juicy target to charge so a flamethrower wouldnt be that optimal.

Maybe I can replace the metal incinerators with psycannons somehow? I'll have to see when my models show up from ebay. But I suspect it will be awkward.

I don't like the sanctioned psychics because they are all in the same pose. A unit of them would look silly!



I think I have some plastic meltagun bits I can send you Rufus. They're from SM sprues, but they should still work for guardsmen. Let me know if you want them.

Yes please! That would be great!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 08, 2011, 07:35:20 PM
@Finley,

In my experience, the vox network doesn't seem worthwhile.  But I always forget my orders.  If you use heavy weapon squads, that would be the best use of "fire on my target" and "bring it down" but they cant get voxes... So its a bit meh really.

Can you have two lascannons in one squad?  I didn't think you could when I read it!  I normally tool my command units up with special weapons.  I always take 4 of any given type, either melta, flamer or plasma.  I always take power firsts on my company and platoon commanders, as initiative 3 pretty much strikes last all the time anyway.

@Rufus

A twin autocannon dreadnaught can be easily obtained from forge world if you feel like stumping up some cash.  As can meltagun and plasmagun guardsmen.  Expensive though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 08, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
if you feel like stumping up some cash.

That's the problem: I never do!

Also I don't want resin stuff.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 08, 2011, 09:47:57 PM
I really like forge world stuff, even though it is resin :)  I own 3 dreadnaughts, 2 guard artillery pieces, a khorne lord, two spacemarine cruisers and a titan engiseer from there, the detail is exceptional compared to the GW official models, and I have never had an issue with them being miscast.

What is your issue with resin Rufus? 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 08, 2011, 09:50:59 PM
I am hopelessly conservative and don't like unfamiliar things!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 08, 2011, 10:06:02 PM
Well I am Conservative [both big and small C] and I quite like the Forge world models.  You have to do a fair amount of actual modelling, something a lot of the new GW models seem to have removed by making their models fit together properly!

I can honestly say I am withholding any conclusions on finecast till I see a model.  As it is, I have no interest in buying any of the finecast models at the moment [although I have always wanted a cockatrice] so this may be a while.

All the forge world dreadnaught models are really sexy.  I have three chaos ones [two emperors children and one word bearers] a friend of mine has a grey knights one, along with two regular GW dreadnaughts, and it is amazing just how much better the resin models are.

Sure it is a carcinogenic, but I have no interest in grinding it up and snorting the resin cut-offs, nor am I intending on eating it!

If I wasn't poor, I would buy loads more stuff from Forge World.  It urinates all over GW kits.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 08, 2011, 11:02:18 PM
I don't really want to use heavy weapons squads- because don't they get evaporated instantly by anything over str 6?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 09, 2011, 08:01:03 AM
Thats why you put them in cover and go to ground.
Then in your turn you give them the order to get back in the fight and they will shoot :D

I usually use vendettas for lascannon support while my heavy weapon squads supply some autocannons and heavy bolters, thus also presenting a smaller threat to the enemy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 09, 2011, 08:29:32 AM
The only heavy weapon teams I use have mortars. Very cheap and cheerful, and exceptionally useful for their cost. Autocannons are my HW of choice for my regular squads.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 09, 2011, 09:08:15 AM
Oh yes, i cant believe i forgot the mortars. They are excellent for grapping the home objective and freeing the rest of the army for the offensive. They rawk!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 09, 2011, 02:08:13 PM
Thanks to Dwhitey's generosity I now have loads of inquisitors and henchmen!

Plus also my grey knights and cadians arrvived from ebay. So my 40K collection stands at something like this:

10 grey knights (2 psycannons, after some minor conversion)
5 grey knight teleporty guys (incinerator)
1 grey knight terminator (may be a character model, I'm not sure)

12 metal cadians (one has a missile launcher, which sadly I can't use in this army)
1 Mordian captain

inquisitor Coteaz
3 other inquisitors!

4 stormtroopers
plasma gun acolyte guy
weird cherub thing (not sure what to count this as: mystic? demonhost?)
servitor (well, he's a sort of cyborg secretary thing, I think)
5 servo skulls (one proper one, four I made from random plastic skulls)

xenotech gunbot servitor
2 demonhosts
5 crusaders
5 death cult assassins
a mystic or psychic or priest. Undecided which he looks most like
random space marine captain (could use him as a warrior acolyte with power armour and bolter)


So, I have loads of stuff! Still need 5 terminators and a vindicare assassin. Oh, and a couple of transports I suppose. And I want a mordian squad too. Also a dreadnought.



Quote from: Crimsonsphinx
All the forge world dreadnaught models are really sexy.  I have three chaos ones [two emperors children and one word bearers] a friend of mine has a grey knights one, along with two regular GW dreadnaughts, and it is amazing just how much better the resin models are.

Forge world do have some nice stuff. I'm still scared of resin though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 09, 2011, 02:27:59 PM
@Finlay

What you have to remember Finlay is if someone is shooting heavy weapons at your heavy weapon squads in cover, they are not shooting your tanks!

You should IMO always fill up your heavy support with tanks.  Doesn't matter what you take, but fill it up.  Even if its bare bones Russ tanks.  I usually take a Collossus, Manticore and a Russ, or a Collossus and two Russes in any games of 1500 or more points.  Heavy weapon teams come from troops, so can capture objectives unlike devastators.

If you are feeling especially beardy, you can deploy them behind another squads dedicated chimera, jump in it on turn one, drive the chimera to a fire point, and from turn 2 you can unleash a battery of long ranged fire from the relative safety of a chimera.

@Rufus

If you dont know what a model is, you can use it as different things until you decide what it is best to be :)  You just need a squad or two of terminators to fill your army out.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 12, 2011, 10:06:31 AM
Count as Bloodthirster...  :icon_twisted:

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/manticore1.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 12, 2011, 10:35:57 AM
 :eusa_clap:

nice one....now paint it.....or let it be painted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 12, 2011, 10:37:38 AM
What models are being used there?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 12, 2011, 11:21:36 AM
Not the official model, I wouldn't let you use it.  :icon_cool:

40k is picking up a lot here now, this weekend coming my Chaos Marines leave the glass cabinet for the first time in over a year!

Only a 1000 points though. How many daemon princes is that...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 12, 2011, 01:12:36 PM
Not the official model, I wouldn't let you use it.  :icon_cool:

I don't play against teens so your point is moot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 12, 2011, 01:17:13 PM
What models are being used there?

The new Manticore, the vambraces from the sorcerer rider, the sword from the lord and a Bloodletter champ body and head.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 12, 2011, 01:19:22 PM
Not the official model, I wouldn't let you use it.  :icon_cool:

I don't play against teens so your point is moot.

 :icon_biggrin:

Neither do I, their attempts at powergaming fail them when they don't know how to use the army they netlisted.  :engel:

When are you going to paint the damn thing so I can cry some more over my mediocre abilities?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 12, 2011, 01:25:37 PM
When are you going to paint the damn thing so I can cry some more over my mediocre abilities?

After I have finished another five letters, a DP, and more Ogres for our mega battle.

Besides I have punished you enough already.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 12, 2011, 01:51:56 PM
Fair enough, fair enough...

Back to painting red lizards.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 12, 2011, 06:47:31 PM
That model looks great Shadowlord.  The fur on the Manticore looks a lot better in your photo than in the WD I looked at :roll:

"Counts as" makes far more sense for chaos than other armies.  They are hardly likely to have two identicle bloodthirsters when they are representing chaos itself, not uniformity!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 12, 2011, 09:51:16 PM
Are roughriders worth having?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 12, 2011, 10:00:19 PM
If they are fluffy, go for it anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 12, 2011, 10:07:52 PM
Roughriders are fantastic at what they do - a great counterattack element for unbelievably cheap. An IG army doesn't really need that, you can just sacrifice and take the cc losses with fodder units. But if you want a counterattack element without investing much they are the way to go. They only get one useful charge, but who cares? Problem is there are no good models, none (except for forgeworld, at prices that would bring tears even to Shadowlords eyes). You'll have to do some big time converting, unless you fancy the incredibly ugly Attilans.

I've seen a couple of really nice takes on the theme though. Cold Ones as mounts with IG plastic soldiers as riders (tried to go that route, not easy. Cutting, greenstuffing and repositioning the legs to the mount is a bitch, at least for my limited skills). Another option I've seen is offroad bikes as mounts. Take a peek at coolminiornot, I remember seeing a couple of inspirational takes on the theme there.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 13, 2011, 05:56:57 AM
I'm available for rough rider conversion work. You buy the models, and I'm sure we can work out an equitable arrangement for me to convert them up. They'd look great on new Pistolier horses.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 13, 2011, 07:13:31 AM
I made my own rough riders from pistoleers and cadians.  They are not painted yet, but i can take a photo if you want to see them Finlay?

I have ten, but so far I havn't had the points to field them.  The issue I am finding is that for their points, I can usually field a better tank or sentinel.  They can realistically only be used vs initative 4 or less 1 wound power armour units, so if you play lots of marines, this is great.  Just don't expect them to survive being shot.  If you have a lot of chimera this makes them even more of a target as the enemy have few targets to shoot out.

Also, I tend to use a Techpriest Engiseer in the counter attack role, except he can fix tanks as well.  I have found a techpriest with a couple of servitors, all with powerfists, can do far more carnage than the rough riders.  There are also models for these that don't suck   :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 13, 2011, 07:51:36 AM
The lances increase S and I by 2, don't they? Meaning you can very well tackle I5 units as well, and that's nearly everything then. Techpriests I am not sold on. Too slow. All their attacks that are any good are I1, and they don't have the stamina to survive until then. They also lack the charge range of the riders.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 13, 2011, 08:09:38 AM
Yeah I suppose you can tackle initiative 5 units, but you will be wiped out!

I use techpriests primarily for their fixing tank ability, their combat ability is like an extra free ability to me.  I don't seem to have any luck with rough riders, as ideally to get the most out of them you want a priest, who cant be mounted!  Strength 5 is still not really all that amazing.

If you have several servitors, they all throw down power fist attacks.  They have better armour than rough riders, as it is carapace and power armour for that unit. 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 13, 2011, 08:11:32 AM
I am too sold on cavalry on paper you can charge them into space marines or terminators and have good chances that they will bring at the very least their points back in. They are fast and they hit hard, I think you can even give them orders and I also think that you can order them to hit the dirt so the tactic hitting the dirt, ordering them to get back up and charging them into something well armoured seems like a great plan doesnīt it?

(I think I got some of the rules wrong but I donīt know what yet?)

I would like to make an imperial guard army with these guys as regular infantry (I think gluing lasguns on them could work and would make them look 40kish enough)

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/apr/622364b.jpg (http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/apr/622364b.jpg)

And cavalry like these guys

http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/PM_PlastikCurassiers.jpg (http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/PM_PlastikCurassiers.jpg)

I was so on fire with this idea (the tanks also in white and blue to make them proper frenchy looking) I almost ordered the stuff....but after the ebay disaster I promised myself to spend not a single cent on warhammer until christmas.

(here a guy on warseer trying something along those lines http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298972 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298972))
What bases do you use for cavalry anyway?

Also can someone give suggestions about suggested size and additional items for the unit?
Do I get it right that 5 of them should have 10 attacks at high S and I at 55 points? (who cares if they all die afterwards?)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 13, 2011, 08:26:44 AM
Yeah I suppose you can tackle initiative 5 units, but you will be wiped out!

So? They are only good for one charge anyway, and the unit you kill will almost always be more valuable. 10 RR cost under 100 points!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 13, 2011, 08:28:07 AM
Sounds like the overall IG credo.....

"Soldiers....you will die....maybe not today or tomorrow. But in the end you will all die for the greater good of the Imperium of Man!"
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 13, 2011, 08:38:56 AM
@ Fandir: 5 is too small - you want 8-10 ideally. That's 20 S5 I5 PW attacks, meaning you have a good chance of wiping or at least crippling a typical squad of CC specialists.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 13, 2011, 09:01:52 AM
Ah, that sounds so tempting. A large rough rider squad. Hmm
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 09:19:22 AM
A good way of using them is to put them in regular reserve. The enemy should have come pretty close when the rough riders enter and with their 6" move, fleet run and 12" charge, they can very easily reach their target, and thus you avoid being shot to pieces.

Rough riders are gold!

And they are even cooler when you use the krieg models.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 13, 2011, 09:25:15 AM
Can you fire heavy weapons out of a moving transport? Or not?


Also, force weapons: activating them just makes them able to instantly kill things, right? But they are power weapons even if not activated?



p.s. 40K forums still give me the impression that 40K players hate 40K and other people.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 10:13:21 AM
NOpe, then they count as moving.

The grey knights activate their forceweapons when you make the first wound (if you havent made the hammerhand power, they can only make one power per turn, unless they have a character or master level2). All wounds are then instant killing, when the test is passed, which is much better than normal forceweapons that only makes one wound instant killy.

Yes they are always power weapons :D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 13, 2011, 10:17:41 AM
Thanks!

So there's not much point activating the force weapons then, unless you are fighting a character or something.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 13, 2011, 10:45:26 AM
so a squad of veterans with a lascannon and 3 plasma guns can shoot all of them out of a non moving Chimera?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 13, 2011, 11:03:38 AM
Yes, I think five people can shoot from a chimera.

Presumably the plasma guns can still fire if the chimera moves at normal speed.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 11:28:35 AM
Thanks!

So there's not much point activating the force weapons then, unless you are fighting a character or something.

Nope. And you roll for hammerhand in the beginning of the assault phase. Remember that Hammerhand stacks! So if your independent character and unit makes hammerhand they will have +2 in strength!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 13, 2011, 11:29:37 AM
Ten rough riders is 105 points, for what its worth.  I don't see any reason to not field 10, as half your attacks will miss anyway.

You are correct Finlay, 5 models, any variety can shoot out of a chimera.  Command units can have 4 special weapons and a plasma pistol on their commander.  Its worth considering!  I use a unit with 4 flamers in a chimera, thats nasty vs hordes.

I use chimelta and chiplasma vet units.  My plasma unit has 3 plasmaguns and a plasma pistol for 7 plasma shots from complete safety :)  The melta taxi has only 3 shots, but again, completely safe. 

Don't put heavy weapons in chimeras if you want to fire them and move.  Completely pointless.  If you are using them as a pill box, by all means add a heavy weapon and say some grenade launchers for extra long range firepower.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 13, 2011, 11:31:26 AM
Remember that Hammerhand stacks! So if your independent character and unit makes hammerhand they will have +2 in strength!

Hey, that's nice!

Maybe I should have a terminator inquisitor with my terminators. Or have Coteaz join a strike squad.



Also, I am amused by the fact that terminators can fit in a chimera.

But I'm not amused by the psylencer. What a terrible weapon!

Also also, techno-orangutans cost 35 points! So expensive!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 02:47:44 PM
Remember you can't shoot out of the vehicle if you drove more than 6", then you have to exit it and shoot. Thats a drawback :/

Remember that Hammerhand stacks! So if your independent character and unit makes hammerhand they will have +2 in strength!

Hey, that's nice!

Maybe I should have a terminator inquisitor with my terminators. Or have Coteaz join a strike squad.



Also, I am amused by the fact that terminators can fit in a chimera.

But I'm not amused by the psylencer. What a terrible weapon!

Also also, techno-orangutans cost 35 points! So expensive!

I cant remember wether an inquisitor in terminator armour can have a daemonblade or other nice stuff, but only the selection you get when you have chosen the armour?

Yes the psilencer really adds nothing to the army.
The condemor boltgun is the worst weapon in the codex, though, it has been faqed to have its special rule work on a wound on a psyker and not hit.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 13, 2011, 03:27:42 PM
I just really fancy the idea of rough riders. something with at least one punch in CC.
Crimson if you could put up pics of yours that would be great.

I also want some ratlers, because hobbits are awesome.

In my list I've got chimelta's and demo charge, and also a platoon command squad with a double flamer chimera and 4 flamers. toasty!
I had one veteran squad with 3 plasma and a lascannon without a chimera, but I figure I may as well just give them a chimera pillbox?

Valykries are Ģ41! what did they used to be?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 13, 2011, 05:04:17 PM
I think I paid 30 quid Finlay but I got mine from a reseller.  I beleive they were Ģ35 before, the same as Land Raiders.  I have 5 ratlings myself, never used them as I don't ever seem to have spare points.  Not painted yet either.

Here are three of my Rough Riders for you to look at, and my techpriest  :-D

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300337.jpg)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300336.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 13, 2011, 05:46:30 PM
What legs are they using, knight legs?

I actually quite like Attilan rough riders! But I'm not going to pay 75 quid for 10 of them.

I have a bunch of the unarmoured mounted legs from empire command sprues, wonder if they would work.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 13, 2011, 05:48:16 PM
Outrider horses and legs.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 13, 2011, 05:48:47 PM
CS ... like the conversions! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 13, 2011, 06:20:57 PM
They use outrider bodies and legs, except the sergent model who has a guard officer body with medals on.  I used most of my spare pistol, chainsword and grenade arms to make them. 

I just couldn't justify to myself paying so much for the Attilan models, especially considering how much I hate them.  Forge world do some nice ones too, but they are also expensive.

Mine worked out at two pistoleer boxes and one box of cadians, which I think came to around Ģ30 for all 10.

Edit: If anyone is wondering why these rough riders are based before painted, it is quite sad.  I have a lady friend who owns a lot of horses who wanted to see how basing was done.  She is supposedly advising me on what colour manes etc go with what coloured body, so my horses are genetically correct, but nothing yet, hence not painted!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 06:59:57 PM
Hmmm maybe I would prefer marauder horse men, but they dont have the outrider legs of course. And you would need lances...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 13, 2011, 07:03:15 PM
Lances are over rated  :)  Mine have a mix of combat weapons, and grenades, which count as hunting lances :)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 07:09:25 PM
I think I would make some with lances and then glue some frag grenade bitz on the ends  :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 13, 2011, 07:30:33 PM
I Don't like the idea of them having metal plate armour.

Well, considering cavalry warfare was finished in thw first world war, I guess any cavalry is silly!
But for some reason metal plate armour just seems daft to me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 13, 2011, 07:42:29 PM
Space marines have armor.  So do Orks, Tau, CSM, Eldar.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 13, 2011, 07:45:23 PM
Plates of armour are very fitting for the guard! They use various stuff. :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 13, 2011, 08:06:27 PM
Space marines have armor.  So do Orks, Tau, CSM, Eldar.
but not armour like this
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9831/259375-ar006_h031_option_large.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 13, 2011, 08:24:57 PM
The -massive- variety of cultures and planets of the Imperium actually means that yes, they quite easily could have armour like that.

If not a specially treated metal/substitute made to look like it, then they could/would wear it as tradition.

But that's not the point, it's Finlay's army so he can do what he wants.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 13, 2011, 08:40:48 PM
Well, I meant Tau, SM, Orks and Eldar didn't have armour like that.

I like how they forgot to raise the prices of the metal squads, so buying 10 old metal troopers is only Ģ2.50 more than 10 plastic cadians.
what were the cadians a few years ago, Ģ18 for 20?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 14, 2011, 05:17:41 AM
Well any and all close combat weapons are kind of silly in the 41k millenium if you think about it so cavalry is fine.

If you dislike the plating I urge you to use the Perry napoleonics they are armour free I guess you would even like the fancy hat Hussars.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_69-jWJpf4S8/TFjYwN3KnzI/AAAAAAAABgo/HYKCF2fKHLQ/s1600/9th+hussars.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_69-jWJpf4S8/TFjYwN3KnzI/AAAAAAAABgo/HYKCF2fKHLQ/s1600/9th+hussars.JPG)

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2009/jun/133035d.jpg (http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2009/jun/133035d.jpg)

(I do love the horses)

Do it you k now you want it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 14, 2011, 07:34:55 AM
Napoleon cavalry sounds like the real shit to use for Rough riders. Damn, I am getting so tempted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 14, 2011, 12:19:06 PM
CCS, lascannon, 70

5 ratlings, 50

Platoon command squad, Chimera with 2 heavy flamers, 4 flamers, 105,
2x infantry squad with flamers, 110

Platoon command squad, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher, 45.
Infantry Squad with Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher 65
2 x Infantry Squad with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher, 130

Veteran squad, Chimera, 3 plasma guns, 1 Missile Launcher 185
Veteran squad, Chimera, 3 meltas, Demolitions 185

8 Rough Riders, 85

Basilisk 125
LRBT, HB sponsons 170
LRD, HB sponsons 185


85 Guardsmen, 5 ratlings, 8 rough riders, 2 tanks, 3 transports and an artillery piece.
10 pts over. Drop a RR or a ratler?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 14, 2011, 02:27:22 PM
Hey Finlay,

What role do you see your LRBT doing? If its sitting back firing, it doesn't need sponsons due to the huge range on the main gun.  Obviously you may play wysisyg so may not have the option of removing sponsons but I would do if you have the options.  Like the other two tanks though, as the Demolisher is short ranged, it may as well have sponsons.

If it were me [and I am not saying I am brilliant or anything] I would drop one of your PCS units, and attach their squads to the remaining one.  You can then use the spare points to finance some plasma/meltaguns for the CCS, or indeed an advisor or two [M.o.Ordinance for example if your sitting back]
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 14, 2011, 05:36:46 PM
I thought it was best to have sponsons to make use of "lumbering behemoth"

I kept the 2 platoons for the extra Heavy bolter, but I guess it isn't a big deal to lose it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 07:05:08 AM
Lumbering Behemoth allows you to fire your turret in addition to any other weapons you can fire.  I beleive it works something like this;

So, dont move = fire everything
Move 1-6 = fire 1 gun + turret
Move 6+ = cant fire

I dont see how sponsons help Finlay?  You could transfer that heavy bolter to one of your other platoons, or your melta vets if you want to keep it.

Let us know how your list does.  Its always good to see guard armies winning  :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 15, 2011, 10:58:45 AM
I wont be playing, at least not for ages, but I just want some focus to my collecting/painting.
Plus I like writing army lists.

surely the sponsons are useful when the enemy are close though- 3 HB and the main gun will annihilate infantry!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 15, 2011, 11:00:23 AM
My inquisition army is going to be so outnumbered.

Would Mordheim witchunter zealots look OK as rogue psychers? I'm not sure what else to use.


Also, are plasma guns any good? Surely meltaguns are much better?


Its always good to see guard armies winning  :-D

From what I've read, imperial guard are now one of the best armies in the game!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 15, 2011, 11:30:47 AM
Also, are plasma guns any good? Surely meltaguns are much better?

Depends on the job. Meltaguns are better generalists, but Plasma has rapid fire. Which helps a lot if the target is heavy infantry or a monstrous creature.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 15, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
Surely the extra range is useful?
I guess squads with heavy weapons in want plasma guns.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 12:16:44 PM
Plasma are the terminator/marine killing weapons of choice, and thus should always be included, even against things like Orks!.  Pretty much half the available armies and more than half the games you will ever play feature either power or terminator armour equivalents.  Melta are obviously vastly better than plasma at tank killing, but have only have half the shots of plasma at 12 inches.  My plasma vets throw down 7 plasma shots at 12 inches, more than enough to vaporise a marine combat squad!

Regarding the unleashing all your guns Finlay, in my experience, I often choose not to fire the heavy bolters on my LRBT because of wound allocation rules.  Say you inflict 5 wounds on 5 marines with your battlecannon, that is 5 dead marines if they are in the open.  If you fire the 3 heavy bolters as well, you could inflict say another 4 wounds, which could be allocated to allow the marines chances of survival by stacking two of the savable wounds on one or more models.  [EG marine 1 and 2 stack the 4 heavy bolter wounds, while marines 3,4 and 5 take the battle cannon wounds]

If they are in cover though, you might as well fire the heavy bolters. 

Depends on your main gun though.  If you tanks main gun has the same or worse AP than the heavy bolters, stick bolters on it.  EG my Punisher throws down 29 s5 shots a turn.

Rogue psykers can be done cheaply by Flaggies Rufus, they look pretty good as raving looney wizards IMO.

EDIT:  Finlay, I hope you dont think I am being harsh or overly critical, I am just trying to convey what has happened to me in the past!   Sorry if it looks like it :(
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 15, 2011, 01:34:18 PM
Space marines have armor.  So do Orks, Tau, CSM, Eldar.
but not armour like this
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9831/259375-ar006_h031_option_large.jpg)
That doesn't look like pistoliers legs.  That looks like armor worn by a knight.  That would be a bit different to include in 40K, to say the least.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 15, 2011, 01:46:31 PM


Regarding the unleashing all your guns Finlay, in my experience, I often choose not to fire the heavy bolters on my LRBT because of wound allocation rules.  Say you inflict 5 wounds on 5 marines with your battlecannon, that is 5 dead marines if they are in the open.  If you fire the 3 heavy bolters as well, you could inflict say another 4 wounds, which could be allocated to allow the marines chances of survival by stacking two of the savable wounds on one or more models.  [EG marine 1 and 2 stack the 4 heavy bolter wounds, while marines 3,4 and 5 take the battle cannon wounds]

EDIT:  Finlay, I hope you dont think I am being harsh or overly critical, I am just trying to convey what has happened to me in the past!   Sorry if it looks like it :(
That sounds mental/wrong.
Guess I need to buy the rulebook!

Not at all, I wouldn't put the list up if I didn't want advice.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 02:36:38 PM
Yeah thats how wound allocation works.  In an ideal world, you need to take the same AP guns.  Eg the Excecutioner with plasma sponsons/or multimeltas with a front lascannon for maximum marine slaughtering.

You just need to run the maths before deciding if its worth firing the bolters, so always fire your big gun first.  If you wound the whole squad, dont fire anything else :)

Your list seems more or less fine, you take more guys than I do, I rely a lot on my armour :)  Well armour and a massively pimped out HQ command squad.  I usually give all my commanders power fists too :)

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 15, 2011, 02:50:53 PM
The problem is wound allocation. You allocate wounds by numbers, and models with different equipment form different wound groups. So let's assume you have 4 T4 Models with a 3+ save and 2 wounds each, all of them with slightly different kit. All of them get wounded by a Battlecannon (S8 AP3) and they take another 4 wounds from Heavy Bolter shells (S5 AP4). 

So we have 8 wounds and 4 wound groups, who roll for saves separately. You allocate all 4 BC wounds (which instant kill due to S8) to 2 models, and the remaining 2 get 2 HB hits each. Result: you will lose 2 Models and most likely keep the other 2 alive. If only the BC had hit all 4 would be dead (all would have received an ID wound with no armor save).

This change was originally intended to make models with special weapons in units more vulnerable than in 4th, but actually opened the door for some pretty sick shenanigans.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 15, 2011, 03:00:26 PM
Ork Nobz on Motorcycles?!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 15, 2011, 03:03:24 PM


You just need to run the maths before deciding if its worth firing the bolters, so always fire your big gun first.  If you wound the whole squad, dont fire anything else :)



I think the rules state that you have to tell your opponent what guns you choose to shoot with before rolling any dice?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
Do you McKnight?  That is entirely possible, I normally do anyway.  I only take sponsons on my punisher most of the time, or plasma sponsons on my Executioner and Demolisher.

The key is to ensure that all of your shots either need them to make a save, or not make a save.  Mixing savable hits with unsaveable is just not useful.  That is the key here.  If they are in cover, you might as well fire all of your shots as they will still get a save of sorts.

The nob bikers take this to a further extreme, as they have multiple wounds whihc cant stack, so if you are lucky/cunning, you can ensure you take a wound on each model before 1 dies, which is contrary to most GW systems for wounding.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 15, 2011, 03:51:48 PM
By "lucky/cunning" I assume you meant "annoying".

As it simply took zero "luck" or "cunning".
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 04:14:21 PM
Well there is still an element of luck, you can fail saves etc. 

Annoying is probably a more accurate description, I will agree with you there MrDWhitey.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 15, 2011, 04:15:22 PM
I often choose not to fire the heavy bolters on my LRBT because of wound allocation rules.  Say you inflict 5 wounds on 5 marines with your battlecannon, that is 5 dead marines if they are in the open.  If you fire the 3 heavy bolters as well, you could inflict say another 4 wounds, which could be allocated to allow the marines chances of survival by stacking two of the savable wounds on one or more models.  [EG marine 1 and 2 stack the 4 heavy bolter wounds, while marines 3,4 and 5 take the battle cannon wounds]

That is so stupid.

I thought people said this game was good!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 15, 2011, 04:19:24 PM
It is. There are a few, special cases where the rules are clunky however.

Wound allocation is rarely much of a problem, but certain (infamous) unit builds are designed to take maximum advantage of this inconsistency. The most notorious offenders being Nob Bikers.

One addendum: In Crimsons example all the marines would die anyway if they are similarly equipped. You roll all saves of one wound group at once, so if you have 5 marines with bolters they still all die in his example. If you have 5 marines wiht different kit it's another story.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 15, 2011, 04:22:23 PM
That is so stupid.

I thought people said this game was good!

It is good. It has issues (but what game doesn't?), but given your proclivities to swing hyperbolically on minor issues I can understand that you have that reaction.

 :engel:

Wound allocation is rarely much of a problem

Once you get used to doing it, yes. Annoyingly, people here often don't bother with it, and get uppity when I insist. Then again, that was like, a year ago. I have no idea what it'll be like now. The new people at our club seem to play it right, and there's enough of them to resist the "oldbies" usual attempt at forcing their interpretation/rewrites of the rules.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 15, 2011, 04:26:18 PM
Well, I expect the new edition next year will change that rule anyway.

I'm definitely not buying a rulebook!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 05:05:45 PM
One addendum: In Crimsons example all the marines would die anyway if they are similarly equipped. You roll all saves of one wound group at once, so if you have 5 marines with bolters they still all die in his example. If you have 5 marines wiht different kit it's another story.

Thats not quite correct Aldaris.  Taking my example, 5 battle cannon wounds, and 4 heavy bolter wounds on 5 marines.  You would only need 3 different types of marines to get a benificial result.
Say you have a sergent, a special or heavy weapon and 3 bolter guys.  This is just about the most common set up of marines.   You divide the wounds like this.  Put 2 heavy bolter wounds on the sarg, 2 on the flamer, and the remaining 5 go on the 3 normal chaps who die outright.  You are still dividing the wounds correctly.

The other point is, it is never an issue whatsoever if your unit can't put more wounds on the enemy than you have shots.  For example, you cant do wound allocation bearding if you only inflict 7 wounds on a 10 man squad, no matter how many wounds you infict.  If in my origional example there were 10 marines, it totally would be worth firing the heavy bolters....

However, they would still all have died if you had only just fired the battle cannon.

It is worth pointing out that this is just about the only stupid rule, and generally 40k works really well.  The simple way to avoid this is to just take weapons that compliment each other.  Eg either rate of fire or armour penetrating ones.

I beleive 6th edition is going back to 4th edition for wound allocation.  I am unsure that it will be an improvement though...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 15, 2011, 05:13:47 PM
Bottom line is you need sufficient wound groups to do those things.
 :::cheers:::

And according to the 6th ed rumors on warseer, every 5th wound will be targetted IIRC. So 4 casualties are removed by the owner and one by the opponent. Subject to exceptions, elaborations and what have you, but I think that was the gist of it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 15, 2011, 05:19:50 PM
I beleive that is how it was in 4th ed Aldaris.

Of course when you are using guard, it usually doesn't matter what gun shoots you.  Most ranged weapons completely negate your save anyway so Finlay doesn't really have to worry about this rule himself!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 15, 2011, 05:32:34 PM
Company Commander! (given to me by Aldaris)
Not entirely pleased with him.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000457.jpg)

Autocannon
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000458.jpg)

I'm trying a few guardsmen with grey armour, so I might need ot be repainting them all if I prefer it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 15, 2011, 06:12:55 PM
@ Crimson: not quite - in 4th edition only the controlling player removed casualties, which is why the guys with the special weapons and the Sarge would always last until the end. The wound allocation rules were implemented in 5th to remedy that, but obviously introduced a new problem.
If the 6th edition allocation rules really work as rumored that would be a problem for some guard builds - the commisar in big blob squads could be picked out again if enough wounds are inflicted.

@ Finlay: those look great! Very pleased what you did with the commander.
 :::cheers:::

And I really need to pick up a third 40K army at some point. Perhaps the new Necrons...? I love getting excited about new stuff. Due to the bash I barely resisted the Grey Knights temptation, we'll see what happens when the next new book comes around.
 :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 15, 2011, 07:17:46 PM
surely the squaddies could just pick up the special weapon dropped by the dead guy?

In that close up I can see like 3 spots of messiness. Have to tidy them now!

I've finished some grey armour guys, but camera battery has died,so I'll have to put them up tomorrow and see what people think.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 15, 2011, 10:16:37 PM
My solution to being put off 40K by reading about it: don't read about it.

Easy!


The wound allocation thing probably never matters anyway. Maybe it's like the building rules in fantasy, or all that stuff about scary trees made of blood or whatever the hell they put in the terrain rules.


On another matter, I am confused by razorbacks: a transport that you can only fit six people in. What good is that?



Company Commander!

That looks great. I like that model.

Nice cannon thing too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 15, 2011, 10:45:06 PM
On another matter, I am confused by razorbacks: a transport that you can only fit six people in. What good is that?

It can carry a heavy weapon, which is nice for some styles of play (notably MSU). You trade transport capacity for firepower (and points).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 16, 2011, 10:29:31 AM
I realise that. But I can't see what I'm going to do with six guys, unless it's a purgation squad and I want to drive four incinerators up close to someone. But if it moves quickly, it can't fire the gun.

And the lascannon is really expensive, but it's the only one that gives me something I can't have anyway.


Still, the kit is better value for money than a rhino, since you get a complete rhino plus the gun turret for the same price as just the rhino...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 16, 2011, 10:51:43 AM
It's not my style either, but you can get 6 cheap henchmen squads with Coteaz and have lots of Troop choices with decent firepower and a tank each. But yeah, I prefer Rhinos with bigger squads as well.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 16, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
Henchmen can have chimeras though, and as far as I can tell chimeras are better than razorbacks.

I don't want more than two or three vehicles anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 16, 2011, 12:24:52 PM
I did a trooper with grey armour, one with grey armour and shoulders, and one with grey armour, pads and hat. I think I prefer "all grey".


(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/partgreyfront.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/partgreyback.jpg)

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/allgreyfront.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/allgreyback.jpg)

So time to repaint the lot do you think?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 16, 2011, 01:11:13 PM
I like the all grey one.

But the different colours could be for different squads maybe? Depending on how many you've painted already.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 16, 2011, 01:13:19 PM
I like the all grey one best of all too, and it makes the most sense as well. Green for cloth, grey for armor.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on July 16, 2011, 01:42:05 PM
Skip the lining on the top of the helmet!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 16, 2011, 01:58:59 PM
Looking good Finlay!   :-D

Regarding Razorbacks, there are a few uses in normal marine lists that I can think of.  I doubt GK will ever have enough spare points to field them  :-D

You buy them as a dedicated transport, so they don't eat up heavy support slots.  If you have the old school twin-plasma and a lascannon varient, thats very powerful, as is the twin lascannon you can make from the box.  They can be substitute predators [kind of].

The key IMO is to forget they are transports for the most part, just use them as fire support, although smaller squads, like sternguard or command squads can make a fair amount of use with them ferrying the guys around.  This also applies if you have split a ten man unit into two 5 man squads, as you can leave your heavy weapon half to give covering fire for the special weapon/sergent half in the Razorback.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 16, 2011, 02:26:04 PM
I like the all grey one.

But the different colours could be for different squads maybe? Depending on how many you've painted already.
Only 20 guys, plus the commander and autocannon team. Don't think it'll take TOO long.

Skip the lining on the top of the helmet!
ok.

Aldaris and Crimson, thanks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 16, 2011, 04:44:03 PM
Quote from: Crimsonsphinx
Regarding Razorbacks, there are a few uses in normal marine lists that I can think of.  I doubt GK will ever have enough spare points to field them

That's true. I quite want one though!

Maybe have it show up with no one in it, and just teleport the grey knights in.



Don't think it'll take TOO long.

Do it then, because they look better grey!

I like how you always photograph your miniatures against a really distracting background...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 16, 2011, 05:26:09 PM
When I've sorted out all the models I will take proper pictures of them.

Still need to figure out what to do with the tanks though!

Do you think it's ok to just have regular guardsmen in my Company Command Squad? Or should I make some of the veterans with extra kit and pig iron heads or something?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 16, 2011, 06:47:28 PM
Do it then, because they look better grey!

I like how you always photograph your miniatures against a really distracting background...
Camoflage, I'm sure.

Imagine being an Ork trying to pick those guys out against that background.  Although it does give them an excuse for being BS2

- - -

Finlay ... I like the green and the grey, and the idea of keeping the squads separate that way.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 18, 2011, 09:59:04 AM
You can use normal guardsmen in your command squad Finlay, but I use Outrider helmets for mine, makes them stand out a bit.  The only issue I have with this is that if I decide to switch them around a bit, I often have a mismatched unit, which looks stupid!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 18, 2011, 10:40:03 AM
Since they are veterans by default (a command squad can't have anything else) there's no reason to make them look different unless you want to.

Though I think there's no reason to make veteran squads look different to non-veterans either. Unless you want to.


Quote from: Crimsonsphinx
if I decide to switch them around a bit, I often have a mismatched unit, which looks stupid!

The imperial guard army book seems to suggest that mismatched units are extremely common - it says casualties are replaced with anyone available, regardless of where they are from or what uniform they wear.



By the way, I agree with whoever it was that said the grey knights army book has ludicrous fluff. It really does.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 18, 2011, 11:45:48 AM

By the way, I agree with whoever it was that said the grey knights army book has ludicrous fluff. It really does.

I hate to say it, but the blame lies with the Author.  I am sure we all know who that is.  He made a hash of the Blood Angels fluff as well [best buddies with Necrons?  Hello, have you ever read 40k background you didn't write/butcher]

I started off using alternative heads on my vets, borrowing from my supplies of free company, bretonians, chaos marauders, empire soldiers etc.  However I actually think just taking 3 special weapons is enough to make them vets, since normal units can't have that many anyway.

I am tempted to buy some of the metal guardsmen ranges to compliment my army.  Due to either an oversight or plain idiocy, the old school metals are pretty much the same price as the current plastics.  Doh!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 18, 2011, 11:58:13 AM
it's hilarious! Ģ2.50 more for the old metals.

Apart from one squad which for some reason is Ģ25.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on July 18, 2011, 11:59:21 AM
The writing itself is really low quality. You can always tell Ward is writing something if you see "Such...", "So it was/is" and similar lame arse attempts to write what he thinks is an epic style multiple times a page.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 18, 2011, 01:25:33 PM
By the way, I agree with whoever it was that said the grey knights army book has ludicrous fluff. It really does.
I hate to say it, but the blame lies with the Author.  I am sure we all know who that is.  He made a hash of the Blood Angels fluff as well [best buddies with Necrons?  Hello, have you ever read 40k background you didn't write/butcher
Wondering why anyone, yes, that's correct, anyone at GW allows such garbage to be placed in an army book.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 18, 2011, 01:42:52 PM
My thoughts on that GamesPoet are as follows.  Either;

a.  No one proof reads the codex book and these idiocies are in print before anyone can do anything about it, so they have to go along with it.
b.  They market the game to new gamers who don't know/care about the old fluff and are doing all they can to big it all up so people spend their hard earned cash on the new army.
c.  They hate us older gamer and want to upset us deliberately.
c.  Some combination of the three above.

What I suppose is ironic is that many of us older gamers complain when they recycle fluff from edition to edition!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 18, 2011, 04:29:58 PM
b.  They market the game to new gamers who don't know/care about the old fluff

I don't really know or care about old fluff, and I still thought the grey knight stuff was bad. And badly written, as Sig said.

But I like the general idea and theme of the grey knights and the inquisition. I don't care about the details. So it's fine!


Quote from: Finlay
Apart from one squad which for some reason is Ģ25

Yes, I'm confused by that.

I'm just hoping they don't suddenly raise the prices on metal guardsmen, or replace them with resin or something!

Not that you can't find loads of them on ebay anyway though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 18, 2011, 05:38:45 PM
I'm just hoping they don't suddenly raise the prices on metal guardsmen, or replace them with resin or something!

Not that you can't find loads of them on ebay anyway though.

Then they might go the way of Praetorian prices - the Mordians and Tallarns and Valhallans still fetch reasonable prices on ebay, and if you buy new, the special weapons are highly priced - the metal Cadians don't seem so popular and come cheaper.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 18, 2011, 05:45:55 PM
You don't have any you want to sell do you?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 18, 2011, 06:02:57 PM
My thoughts on that GamesPoet are as follows.  Either;

a.  No one proof reads the codex book and these idiocies are in print before anyone can do anything about it, so they have to go along with it.
b.  They market the game to new gamers who don't know/care about the old fluff and are doing all they can to big it all up so people spend their hard earned cash on the new army.
c.  They hate us older gamer and want to upset us deliberately.
c.  Some combination of the three above.

What I suppose is ironic is that many of us older gamers complain when they recycle fluff from edition to edition!
Proof reading doesn't mean its being read for content.  Newgamers might not know the old fluff, but they aren't likely to initally care, and evidently the powers that be at GW dont' seme to care either.  I seriously doubt they hate old gamers because we spend money, too.

As I think about this more, its probably just one writer putting together what he thinks is good, putting his own stamp on things so to speak, and doing a bad job.  Probably whoever he reports to isn't paying that much attention to the fluff side of things, since the real money makers are the figures, rules, and supporting materials, not the fluff.  However, if someone is actually monitoring the fluff, they need to do a better job as well.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on July 18, 2011, 09:46:57 PM
The guy who wrote Imperial Armour 9&10 is actually much better. I think he's writing the Warhammer Forge book as well. It's not award winning literature but far more readable and quite enjoyable.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: patsy02 on July 18, 2011, 11:44:19 PM
You don't have any you want to sell do you?
I have 70 metal Cadians, and I'm not sharing. They cost me half per guardsman of what it would to buy plastics.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 19, 2011, 09:41:42 AM
The issue is Matt Ward is clearly not a bad writer from GW management perspective, as he has been let loose on a large amount of the new codex books in 40k.  So GW clearly don't care what he is putting is terrible, as long as it sells. 

I used to enjoy the fluff in the older army books.  Some of the ones I have from the 90s [4th ed undead book comes to mind] have some really good fluff in.  The more recent books, especially in the last year or two, are a steaming pile of.....  well you get the idea.

On the plus side, a lot of the 5th ed books he has written are quite well done from a rules perspective.  Not all, but most of the Matt Ward books do have a number of competative builds, where the older 4th edition books sometimes really struggle to make a competative build against 5th edition books.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 19, 2011, 11:19:51 AM
Writing rules and fluff are two different things.  If they got the same person doing both, obviously no guarantee that both will be done well.  In a way, I suppose having only decently written rules is better than only having decently written fluff, but having both is possible and worth aiming for.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 19, 2011, 11:50:21 AM
You don't have any you want to sell do you?
I have 70 metal Cadians, and I'm not sharing. They cost me half per guardsman of what it would to buy plastics.
Metal cadians go for hardly anything on ebay.

tallarns/mordians/valhallans seem to go for between 15-20 a squad.

I'm hoping some mispelling of Valhallans means I can get them cheap, although I think I like the Tallarn's best.


Also, if I buy a Chimera new, will it have the bits to make flamers?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 19, 2011, 12:18:45 PM
It comes with the heavy flamer chassis gun Finlay if that is what you are asking :)  As well as heavy flamer and heavy bolter turret options.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 19, 2011, 01:12:41 PM
it's hilarious! Ģ2.50 more for the old metals.

Apart from one squad which for some reason is Ģ25.

The Tallarns have two special weapons I think whereas the others are just straight up troopers apart from the sergeants.

The sets available now are not all the originals - there were other troopers/sergeants outside the box sets.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 19, 2011, 02:07:15 PM
If I recall correctly, Tallarns can still be purchased via GW.  They are probably my favorite of the alternative Imperial Guard.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 19, 2011, 02:50:49 PM
they can all be purchased from GW, but i'd rather buy 14 quid on ebay than 25 quid from GW.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 19, 2011, 03:10:45 PM
Understandable. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 19, 2011, 03:13:39 PM
It is even unflappable.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 20, 2011, 01:07:04 AM
I was playing an Apoc game the other day. My Assault Termie squad took 24 wounds, and failed 8 armor saves. It was spectacular!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 20, 2011, 09:01:45 PM
I just bought a squad of tallarns, watching another.

I'm thinkin Al rahem, I'm thinking a chimelta platoon command squad, and a blob squad of foot stompers with meltas, sergeants with plasma pistols and power swords, and a comissar with power sword and plasma, and then a SWS with flamers (only problem is Tallarns dont come with flamers).

Do you think it would be better just to mech up 2 squads?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 21, 2011, 05:19:40 AM
Frankly meching up is no better than letting the terrorists win!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 09:58:38 AM
How many chimera's is too many in 1500 then?
Becuase if I meched that platoon, it would be 4, if not 2.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 21, 2011, 10:14:34 AM
How many chimera's is too many in 1500 then?
Becuase if I meched that platoon, it would be 4, if not 2.

4 Chimeras is totally fine.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 10:37:49 AM
If you use foot guys with Al Rahem, aren't they just in danger of being stranded nowhere useful?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 21, 2011, 11:16:29 AM
I played a guy who used Al rahem that way. Without the transports. it was against the old daemon hunters so I was totally outnumbered.
Anyway it worked out great, he came in on the side where I had some of my troops and well totally ruled my movement by it, because i had to keep the meltas out of range and didnt have enough firepower to remove all of the enemy.

Doesn't Al rahem have a order that makes the unit run and then shoot?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 21, 2011, 11:26:36 AM
I think it is shoot and then run....something about sand leaving with the wind.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 21, 2011, 11:29:28 AM
If you come onto the board within 12" of Inquisitor Cortez and his squad, they get to immediately shoot at you for free! Strength 5 storm bolters in the face!


I need to buy chimeras on ebay, but they need to not be horrible assembled.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 12:01:50 PM
If you come onto the board within 12" of Inquisitor Cortez and his squad, they get to immediately shoot at you for free! Strength 5 storm bolters in the face!
All that makes me want to do is put everyone in Chimeras!

Al rahem can order a unit to shoot and then run d6 inches.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 21, 2011, 12:26:47 PM
Two psycannons might kill a chimera! Eight S7 shots.

Most likely though you just wouldn't come on within 12" of him.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 12:52:06 PM
Platoon
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000497-1.jpg)

HB squad
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000501.jpg)

Company commander in grey.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000505-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 21, 2011, 12:53:57 PM
If you come onto the board within 12" of Inquisitor Cortez and his squad, they get to immediately shoot at you for free! Strength 5 storm bolters in the face!


I need to buy chimeras on ebay, but they need to not be horrible assembled.
Used to be able to do that with any inquisitor if you had a Mystic henchman. In fact, if you had two you could select another unit to do the shooting with. Like a Purgation squad. Used to be the only way to deal with Daemon bombs.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 21, 2011, 12:55:50 PM
Finlay: looks good! When are you going to send me the parts so I can convert your rough riders for you?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 12:57:43 PM
I cant make the pictures look normal!

They look normal on the IG forum.
Technofail

CoD, Rufus is sending me 4 rough riders, so I am trying to buy 4 more attilans.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 21, 2011, 01:34:37 PM
I cant make the pictures look normal!

They look normal on the IG forum.
Technofail

They look fine to me. Though a minute ago they looked weirdly extended.

The models look great anyway. Nice colour scheme.



Quote from: CannonofDoom
used to be able to do that with any inquisitor if you had a Mystic henchman.

Really?

I wish I didn't have to use a special character to make my army possible. Stupid special-character-dependent armybooks!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 01:46:54 PM
I fixed the pictures. I wish it wasn't so dark here atm! and that I could take non blurry photos. At least it gives an idea of what they look like.

Are you going to invent your own fluff and have him "counts as"? I think that's what they encourage.
I actually think Al Rahem is pretty cool though.
Way cooler than Chenkov's fluff.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 21, 2011, 02:19:21 PM
I don't really mind Cortez's fluff (he's not ridiculous like Drago). I just don't like having to take him in every list if I want to be able to use my army.

Most of the characters in the imperial guard book are OK fluffwise. Yarrick is still cool.


I bought two painted chimeras on ebay! I hope they are nice, or I will be very sad!


I wish it wasn't so dark here atm!

Another lovely summer in England.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 21, 2011, 02:20:42 PM
There is an IG forum?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 21, 2011, 02:46:20 PM
Are three transports (one rhino, two chimeras) enough for my grey knights army?



There is an IG forum?

At least two!

http://z4.invisionfree.com/Boot_Camp/index.php?

http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi

Both a bit bad for the eyes: dark backgrounds with light text!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 21, 2011, 05:03:24 PM
Finlay ... I think your Guard came out very well.  They look good all lined up together like that! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 07:08:14 PM
GP: thanks!


I just bought a squad of tallarns, minus heavy weapons, for 8 quid including P and P! So thats 2 squads for 25 quid including postage and packaging. Result.
Now just need to buy some melta Tallarns, and convert some flamer Tallarns...

Rufus, how much did the Chimera's run you?

I'm struggling with my army composition- there is so much cool stuff in the IG it makes it really hard to choose. The sign of a great book, imo.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 21, 2011, 07:25:04 PM
I cant make the pictures look normal!

They look normal on the IG forum.
Technofail

CoD, Rufus is sending me 4 rough riders, so I am trying to buy 4 more attilans.

But I don't want to have to start IG just to be able to do the conversions!!!! ARGH!
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7805/panic8hq.gif)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 21, 2011, 07:26:54 PM
I play 1850 mostly Finlay, and I usually field 4-5 chimera.  I could probably field more, if I owned more.

My lists usually look vaguely like this.

HQ CCS + chimera
Troops: melta vets + chimera
Troops: plasma vets + chimera
Troops:  Platoon
PCS with flamers + chimera
2-5 squads of infantry with special and heavy weapons
Collossus
Manticore
Russ variant
That usually leaves around 200 ish for fast attack and elites which I vary quite a lot.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 21, 2011, 07:38:27 PM
I just bought a squad of tallarns, minus heavy weapons, for 8 quid including P and P! So thats 2 squads for 25 quid including postage and packaging. Result.
Now just need to buy some melta Tallarns, and convert some flamer Tallarns...


This one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260818196185

I had that in my Watch list and was going to bid until I saw your earlier post, and guessed you might be on it.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 21, 2011, 08:00:21 PM
GP: thanks!
I like your color scheme so much I might either borrow it or at least use some sort of two-tone look for mine.

- - -

(GP :icon_eek: ... you don't have an IG army.)

No kidding.

(Well what are you talking about?)

Probably only a matter of time for an adding an IG army to my Orks and Space Marines happens.  And maybe Tau, too.

(Uh boy. :icon_rolleyes: )

Course there's the WF shock troops that might get used for IG as well.

(Need I remind you of all your WFB and historical interests? :icon_wink: )

Probably best to save that for other threads. :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 21, 2011, 08:36:42 PM
I just bought a squad of tallarns, minus heavy weapons, for 8 quid including P and P! So thats 2 squads for 25 quid including postage and packaging. Result.
Now just need to buy some melta Tallarns, and convert some flamer Tallarns...


This one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260818196185

I had that in my Watch list and was going to bid until I saw your earlier post, and guessed you might be on it.

Yep. I don't think I will be buying anymore atm though, and I think I probably only need some melta Tallarns anyway.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 22, 2011, 08:56:38 AM
Rufus, how much did the Chimera's run you?

Ģ20 for two, plus 3.50 postage.

They are painted, but the image was a bit murky so I really hope they are OK! But since new ones cost ~20 each, and then you still have to assemble and paint the wretched things, I think it was a risk worth taking.

There are a lot of chimeras on ebay, but demand is high and they usually go at around Ģ15.


I've been a bit ebay-happy recently, so I need to stop going on there (no more metal grey knights in power armour! You have twenty!). All I really need for my grey knights army now is five terminators... and maybe a second rhino.

I won an auction yesterday that had no picture, and may either be absurdly good value or totally horrible.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 22, 2011, 09:22:15 AM
I have now hoarded too many metal IG minis not to make an army. Need to include renamed low level special characters too. Mostly light stuff. A single Russ just for kicks and my converted Devil Dog (made from a plastic kit of an M8 armoured car.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 22, 2011, 10:27:15 AM
my converted Devil Dog (made from a plastic kit of an M8 armoured car.

That sounds cool! Let's see a picture.



Quick 40K question for 40K rules-ers: let's say I have a chimera as a dedicated transport for a henchmen squad, but I want a grey knights squad to ride in it instead. Do I have to deploy the chimera empty, and the grey knights next to the chimera's access point, and then have the grey knights get onto the chimera on my first turn? If I do that, can the chimera move on the same turn? Can it move at top speed?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on July 22, 2011, 11:25:51 AM
Quick 40K question for 40K rules-ers: let's say I have a chimera as a dedicated transport for a henchmen squad, but I want a grey knights squad to ride in it instead. Do I have to deploy the chimera empty, and the grey knights next to the chimera's access point, and then have the grey knights get onto the chimera on my first turn? If I do that, can the chimera move on the same turn? Can it move at top speed?

Yes to all three questions.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 22, 2011, 11:45:54 AM
You should also imagine them chanting: "Hup, hup, hup, hup, hup" as they file into the Chimera. I did this as I read your post, and it made me happy.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 22, 2011, 01:31:01 PM
I didn't realise the HWT couldn't fire 1 las gun. Seems a bit lame. I'll probably try and fire it until someone tells me not to.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 22, 2011, 01:45:11 PM
Here are some older pics. I have made a closed turret with a hatch and a IG crewman looking out. Not painted yet since I droped my last IG project and showered my son with more IG minis he would not refuse to have...

But a small die hard force of vets, mostly footsloogers (no stupid Leafblower abuse list for me) seems and feels doable and probably fun... I got some sweet inspiration from reading a book about the first siege of Tobruk in 1941 when a bunch of aussie diggers, indians and brits, later also reinforced with poles held of Rommel and taught him a lesson. Overall, the number if different nationalities on the "british" side in the desert war makes for a perfect inspiriation in constructing a scraped together force. In honour of the aussie battalions who spent the longest time in Tobruk and who proudly marched out as the siege was lifted after operation Crusader I will probably call the regiment 2/13 Tobrokia.

They are the remants of a garrison who was ordered to hold an Imperial space port until death if necessary against a shrewdly commanded Ork Waaagh, especially a combined Blood Axe/Speed freeks warband lead by the dashing and cunning blood axe warboss Rommulz.

Under the command of the stubborn commisar lord Ming and Colonel Moreheads the garrison held out despite shrinking due to relentless assaults and aireal bombardments. The survivors were nothing but remants of a dozen different units, but thanks to the charismatic leaders and their shared expirience had become a regiment of their own, an All-Imperial regiment of sort. Commisar Ming resisted all attempts to divide the warhardened veterans on different regiments and managed to get a semi-official recognizion of the formation as the 2/13 Tobrokian combat team as the Imperium was in dire need of high quality fighting forces.

The regiments are mostly infantry, but have a handful or Leman Russ of varied patterns. But the favoured heavy support is the Griffon, since it is lighter and more easily air deployable. The armour element is otherwise made up of sentinels and a mixed squadron of light hellhound variants and more rare vehicles of similar purpose. Among them are a few rare examples of the Tobrokian manufactured Bloodhound armoured car, intended for fast recon and tank hunting.

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto306.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto305.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 22, 2011, 01:59:18 PM
HB squad. Now I have 4 infantry squads completed.

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000507.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 22, 2011, 02:03:09 PM
Well done, Finlay!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 22, 2011, 02:10:27 PM
last day of paternit leave today :(

I've been doing so much painting while Ted has been asleep or feeding.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 22, 2011, 02:22:37 PM
last day of paternit leave today :(

I've been doing so much painting while Ted has been asleep or feeding.

I never got Paternity Leave. Must be nice.  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 22, 2011, 03:25:06 PM
Paternity Leave = Painting Leave

 :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 22, 2011, 05:48:36 PM
Looking good Finlay.  I am very jealous of the basing on your guardsmen, it looks really good.

Otherwise your colour scheme is fairly similar to mine, and is therefore really good lol  :-D 

Im struggling for motivation, I dont know whether to paint one of my forge world dreadnaughts, or another guardsmen squad.  Anyone have a preference?  Ill post up the photos   :-)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 22, 2011, 06:00:28 PM
The basing is really easy.

I put some clay on some of the bases to add a bit of uneven ground.
Then tix 2 grades of grit I bought from a hobby store.

Paint scorched brown, drybrush calthan brown, drybrush bleached bone.
Then PVA glue a bit of static grass on. Mine is all green, but would probsbly be better with some different shades.
Then PVA glue little clubs of the moss/bush stuff which Fr1day sent me, but you can by from hobby stores.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 22, 2011, 06:04:55 PM
That does sound an awful lot Finlay.  Mine takes long enough using just pva, brown paint and flock!

If you are interested in advice for list building guard, I can point you towards a site I use for 40k advice if you want?  That is if I am allowed to link other sites!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 22, 2011, 06:18:27 PM
Not really, just painting some grit and gluing some flock on! MY orc and goblin bases take a lot longer.


I'm on the IGMB
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 22, 2011, 09:09:03 PM
What is IGMB?

I use 3++ is the new black, it has indepth looks at a lot of different armies
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 22, 2011, 09:16:17 PM
Can "3+++ is the new black" be translated for us non savvy internet browsers?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Merrick on July 22, 2011, 10:16:29 PM
Might as well post my only painted 40k here. Should be the starting point for whenever I collect another army.

(http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii355/Eight-Warhammer/DSCF2018.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 22, 2011, 10:41:37 PM
The basing is really easy.

I put some clay on some of the bases to add a bit of uneven ground.
Then tix 2 grades of grit I bought from a hobby store.

Paint scorched brown, drybrush calthan brown, drybrush bleached bone.
Then PVA glue a bit of static grass on. Mine is all green, but would probsbly be better with some different shades.
Then PVA glue little clubs of the moss/bush stuff which Fr1day sent me, but you can by from hobby stores.
Sent you a pm inquiring about this, and thanks for sharing this! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 22, 2011, 10:47:03 PM
The basing is really easy.

I put some clay on some of the bases to add a bit of uneven ground.
Then tix 2 grades of grit I bought from a hobby store.

Paint scorched brown, drybrush calthan brown, drybrush bleached bone.
Then PVA glue a bit of static grass on. Mine is all green, but would probsbly be better with some different shades.
Then PVA glue little clubs of the moss/bush stuff which Fr1day sent me, but you can by from hobby stores.
Sent you a pm inquiring about this, and thanks for sharing this! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
That's why I typed it out. Happy to help!  :happy:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 23, 2011, 12:52:11 AM
Nice termies Mike-Mike!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 10:16:05 AM
Yea not a problem,

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/p/codex-reviews.html

This has quite a few indepth looks at the different 40k codex books.  I really enjoy the site, and they talk a lot of sense.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 10:41:58 AM
Since Finlay is putting up lots of guardsmen, I thought I would put some close ups of my guard armour.  Hope you like them.

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300359.jpg)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300360.jpg)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300363.jpg)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300364.jpg)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300367.jpg)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300369.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 23, 2011, 11:27:05 AM
Hope you like them.

They look amazing! Send them all to me!

How do you paint them?

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 23, 2011, 11:36:21 AM
Hope you like them.

They look amazing! Send them all to me!

How do you paint them?

With a brush!

www.instantrimshot.com (http://www.instantrimshot.com)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 11:43:49 AM
Painting was easy,  I managed to paint all 6 Russ tanks in one day using this simple method.

I used Army Painter Uniform Grey as undercoat, as per all of my guard models.  This was done a day or so in advance, so maybe me claiming they were all painted in one day is a bit of a stretch!

I then painted the Blue bits, Fenris Grey [as this is the same colour I use for my guard models armour plates/helmets].
The guns were painted Orkhide Shade and Boltgun Metal
The tracks and exhausts were painted Tin Bitz
The yellow is Iyanden Darksun
Then I drown the model in as much Devlan Mud as I can get on it, this does all my shading. highlighting etc, and it obviously collects towards the bottom of the model, giving me a kind of weathering/dirt and grime effect.

So far my Guard army has used 4 full pots of Devlan Mud.  It isn't working out an especially cheap painting method!  I think for future armies, I will be using an alternative shading method, perhaps an Army Painter Quickshade, which seems considerably cheaper than GW.
Finally, apply the transfers, then use matt varnish to ensure the transfers dont keep coming off.

Some of the models have other steps, primarily if they have plasma weapons, but it is a straight forward process.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 23, 2011, 12:03:57 PM
Well, they look great! Thanks for the info on how you did them.

I still don't want to paint tanks though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 23, 2011, 12:09:51 PM
Oh my god armour!

awesome.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 12:15:36 PM
Just for you Finlay, I thought I would post up most of my painted guard foot units too  :)  I have included two different perspectives and one using flash that I am not too sure about!

You can see there I have a massive PCS, three CCS, two vet squads, one stormtrooper unit, one penal legion [catachans] and four infantry platoon squads.  Still to paint I have another one or two infantry units, four heavy weapons squads, psyker battle squad, ratlings and rough riders.  Oh yeah, and a bunch of "options"

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300371.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300373.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300374.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 12:36:48 PM
Just to make this easier for people to identify my units, I have split them up into seperate photos.
First photo are my platoon squads.
Second Photo has my two veteren squads at the front, penal legion and stormtroopers at the back.
Third and fourth photos are my various command squads.

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300377.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300378.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300384.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300385.jpg)

Hope you all like these   :-D
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 23, 2011, 02:01:13 PM
The armor is smashing! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap:

Appreciated seeing how those were painted, thank you. :icon_cool:

Enjoyed seeing the distribution of all that infantry, too. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 23, 2011, 03:36:37 PM
Nice models Crimson!


I'm having trouble with the grey knights army list. I can't get enough stuff into an army because things cost too many points.

How does this 1500 point list look?

HQ      Cortez                  100
                                                
elite      10 purifiers      incinerator            283
            psycannon            
            4 halberds            
            hammer            
            psybolts            
      rhino                  40
                        
      10 purifiers      incinerator            283
            psycannon            
            4 halberds            
            hammer            
            psybolts            
      rhino                  40
                                                                        
      vindicare assassin                  145
                                                
troops      10 henchmen      3 plasma guns            131
            6 hot shot lasguns            
            jokaero            
                        
      10 henchmen      3 melta guns            105
            7 hot shot lasguns            
                        
      10 henchmen      3 melta guns            105
            7 hot shot lasguns            
                        
      chimera                  55
                                                
      10 henchmen      5 death cult assassins            150
            5 crusaders            
                        
      chimera                  55
                                                
                     total = 1492



Is this rubbish? Where do I put Cortez? Should the transports go with different units? Should I have more meltaguns? Does the death cult/ crusader unit need the chimera, or can they just run at the enemy? How does anyone make a decently-sized army using this book?

I may as well use two units of purifiers, since strike squads cost almost as much but aren't nearly as good.

I had to lose my second inquisitor, because he just seems like a waste of points. Also demonblades are weak.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 23, 2011, 03:58:50 PM
I don't have the book so take it with a huge pinch of salt

are vindicare assasins worth 145 points?
That's almost a chimera melta henchmen squad.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
The vindicare is pretty much the most awesome long range anti tank unit in the grey knights book.   4d6 armour pen, at ap1 means it only takes a slightly better than average roll, [15 rather than 14] to pen, and that gives a 50% chance of destroying said tank.  Hits on a 2 as well.

I don't have a copy of the grey knights book on me at this moment, but the list is a bit confusing to me.  Purifiers? Are they the unit with the shoot through walls psychic power?

I would save points and not get hotshot lasguns.  You would be better having 5 decent guns [plasma or melta ideally] per henchman squad which can shoot out the hatch, and if you really want to include others, give them very basic gear, or alternatively take 5 crusaders/henchmen with carpace armour to throw spare wounds on.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 23, 2011, 05:13:39 PM
Fair enough, sounds pretty scary to Guard! and long range AT needed for grey knights.

Tallarn test models.

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000514-1.jpg)

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000516.jpg)

They had blue on them already, and I quite liked it. But not convinced. Perhaps I should do it Green like the Cadian's tracksuits?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 23, 2011, 06:00:45 PM
I am not sure either Finlay.  I like how the blue is done, but it just doesnt look right to me.  I cant put my finger on the reason for it though!  I am not sure green will look better than the blue either, the blue stands out quite nicely.

What I normally do is google and search CMON for colour schemes.  See what I can steal off vastly more talented painters than myself.   :-D
Alternatively, and IMO equally valid, is to look at historical warriors who fought with similar get up, and copy their paint scheme.  I would guess the turbans [or whatever they are called] would most likely be an off white colour in RL.

Yea the vindicare is a beast.  Not especially scary for guard, one leman russ tank shell and a failed dodge and thats your tank paid off.  In the last game I saw the vindicare take out a land raider in a single hit from around 35 inches away.  It is better than a lascannon at that range by quite a sizable amount and miles better than a multimelta apart from really close in.  Although the vindicare *can* shoot other targets, his other ammo types are somewhat less brilliant.

The evesor is my personal favourite assassin.  Gone are the days when he was incredibly poor.  Now he is a combat machine, easily capable of ripping any small elite squad to bits.  The only issue for me is, he only does things normal GKs can do, so the vindicare is IMO the better deal.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 23, 2011, 06:12:01 PM
The blue is quite striking, but the green might be more in line with your theme.  At the same time, some sort of an off-white, cream, bone, light tan, light brown, or maybe even a light grey color might also work.

However, these are Tallerns, so perhaps it depends on the fluff of your army and how they fit into it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 24, 2011, 09:23:14 AM
I might not need a vindicare if I could get an autocannon dreadnought! But GW make four plastic space marine dreadnoughts without a single autocannon between them. And forgeworld arms are absurdly expensive.

Anyway the vindicare is an awesome model. Easily the best-looking assassin.


Quote from: Crimsonsphinx
Purifiers? Are they the unit with the shoot through walls psychic power?

No, they are the fearless Ld9 ones with two attacks, cheap halberds, and a psychic power than wounds every single model in combat with them on a 4+. They cost only 20 or so more points than a basic squad, but are elites.

Amazing.


Quote from: Crimsonsphinx
I would save points and not get hotshot lasguns.  You would be better having 5 decent guns [plasma or melta ideally] per henchman squad which can shoot out the hatch, and if you really want to include others, give them very basic gear, or alternatively take 5 crusaders/henchmen with carpace armour to throw spare wounds on.

Well, I can only get three special weapons per squad... and then it's either bolters, storm bolters or hot-shot lasguns for the rest. I'd use bolters, but all the models I have are armed with lasguns. So hotshots it is I'm afraid!

I want most of my henchmen squads to look like imperial guard units. Because it's cool, and because I want to use them in a guard army as well.


I've somehow ended up with no terminators, even though they are one of the things I wanted most! Oh well.


Tallarn test models.

They look awesome! Keep the blue: the blue is great.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 24, 2011, 10:51:07 AM
Hi rufus,

You could just use spacemarine models as power armoured henchmen with bolters :) 
Our GK player doesn't use Purifiers then.  He prefers the ones who shoot through walls, and then terminators.  Lots of terminators.

Forge world dreads aren't that bad for money are they?  I bought three, and the last one was only in the last few months, it was around the same price as a normal GW one.  You can buy both rifleman arms from forgeworld, or if you have imperial guard heavy weapons teams, you can kitbash them from the spare plastic autocannons.

See here:  http://www.40korigins.com/40KOrigins/post/2009/08/23/Rifleman-Dreadnought.aspx
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 24, 2011, 11:02:50 AM
You could just use spacemarine models as power armoured henchmen with bolters :) 

Yes, but 15 points each! Not worth it!

Anyway, I don't like normal space marines, unless they have the beak helmets. The standard grinning teeth helmets upset me.


Purifiers look amazing to me, as a person who doesn't really understand 40K yet.


A forgeworld dreadnought might come to the same price as a new GW one... but I wouldn't buy a new GW one, because they are overpriced. I'd buy a cheap one from ebay. But there are no cheap autocannon dreadnoughts on ebay of course!

I suppose a kitbash would be the best way to do it, but it seems like too much hassle. Also autocannon dreadnoughts are clearly cheating anyway! They are too cheap, pointswise.


Thanks for the ideas though!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 25, 2011, 07:15:54 AM
I am all for the beakies as well Rufus!  It is just a shame the chaos sprues don't seem to have mark vi armour on them, so I have to make do with the handful I have been able to scrounge up.

To be fair, 90% of the GW range is what I would call beyond my price range.  I mostly buy things I like the look of these days, I cant afford a new army [despite the fact I have priced up a nid army 3 times this year just incase it is cheaper than I thought]  You know its getting bad when you can look on forge world and the prices are only slightly more than GWs own! 

My remaining purchases this year are to be 2 hydra flak tanks which should be coming out in the summer of fliers. 

Regular autocannon dreadnoughts are not especially effective, but psybolt ones are quite a different matter!  Who wouldn't want four twlinlinked missile launchers?   :-)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 25, 2011, 09:34:32 AM
I went to a big apoc game this saturday. 12 players with 2500pts each. Pictures will come soon!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 25, 2011, 10:04:29 AM
I might not need a vindicare if I could get an autocannon dreadnought! But GW make four plastic space marine dreadnoughts without a single autocannon between them. And forgeworld arms are absurdly expensive.

I made some out of Missile Launcher arms and spare Autocannons.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 25, 2011, 04:50:43 PM
What should I do to convert my tallarn sergeants to not have plasma pistols? will chopping of their hands and putting laspistols be easy?

Shall I just leave them with plasma pistols? They are going to outflank with al rahem, and form a blob of 2 squads plus a commisar.

This squad is also going to have flamers. What models should I use to convert as flamers- normal Lasguns, chop the end off, add a flamer end and flamer back pack? maybe do that but with melta models instead of las gun?

Veterans!

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000520.jpg)

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000521.jpg)

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000518.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000519.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 25, 2011, 06:26:22 PM
I like the veterens Finlay  :)

Regarding plasma pistols, I guess it depends just how much wysiwyg you play in your area.  My group isn't too bothered if I claim it is an ornate laspistol when a model has a plasma pistol.  That said, guard do get them cheaper than marines.  I sometimes give my bs4 guard vet sergents plasma pistols for example.

Don't you have a massive pile of flamers from your guard sprues?  If you bought cadians you should have two per box.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 25, 2011, 06:50:04 PM
But I don't want cadians with flamers in my tallarn squad!

Another scary thing- a failed LD test becomes 20 points of commisar execution if they have plasma and power swords.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 25, 2011, 07:10:27 PM
Surely you can convert your spare cadian flamers onto a tallarn?  Shouldn't be too difficult with a small amount of greenstuff and some skill at cutting away a lasgun.

I always knew there was a reason I don't use commisars!  I take a CCS or occasionally a primaris psyker as my HQs.  LD 9 on the psyker is good for what I need [usually adding to conscripts to boost their LD] plus he can do some serious harm with his lightning arc.

I am tempted to take a commisar lord though, and sit him in the middle of a heavy weapon squad area, so many squads can use his high ld for taking orders.  I don't know that just fielding more big guns might be more effective a use of points though.  This tends to be a general issue I have with guard.  So many times basic infantry are just more effective than expensive upgrades, characters and tanks.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 25, 2011, 08:28:11 PM
Plasma pistols are well expensive points-wise. I can't imagine they are worth it. I don't think I like plasma guns either.

Melta melta melta! Microwave those tanks!


Quote from: Finston
will chopping of their hands and putting laspistols be easy?

Yes, if you have the laspistols!


Quote
What models should I use to convert as flamers- normal Lasguns, chop the end off, add a flamer end and flamer back pack?

Yes, do that. Easy!


Those veterans look good. Where are the funny heads from?

Nice backpacks too.

And I like the dinosaur mug in the background.


Quote from: cannon o' doom
I made some out of Missile Launcher arms and spare Autocannons.

I have neither! But there's no way I could find the points for a dreadnought anyway, so never mind!


Quote from: crimson
Regular autocannon dreadnoughts are not especially effective, but psybolt ones are quite a different matter!  Who wouldn't want four twlinlinked missile launchers? 

And they can ignore shaken and stunned results with their fortitude psychic power!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 25, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
Plasma and melta are both equally useful and important IMO.  When you play as an army like guard, plasma is desperately needed to shoot up marines and terminators.  You actually don't need as many melta weapons with guard as other armies due to the high availability of high strength weapons on tanks, artillery and vendettas.

When you play as GKs you can kill marines etc much easier due to all your knights having power weapons.  Different priorities for weapons for different armies.

I had to go back and look at the dinosaur mug  :-D

Fortitude is a really decent psychic power, its like daemonic possession without the downsides.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 25, 2011, 09:46:19 PM
if you kill one space marine, it's made its points back. The squad is meant to be a close assault squad, and I reckon 2 plasma shots and 2 flamer bursts, as well as 20 guardsmen and a commisar, and 3 power weapons, should be able to do some damage.

The funny heads are from Pig Iron. The backpacks were from the giant bag of bits which Shadowlord sent to me.

I'm scared to chop up the Tallarns, they are quite expensive! but I do have lots of las pistol hands.


dinosaur mug from the natural history museum. It's my go to mug.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 25, 2011, 09:59:28 PM
Do not chop up the tallran if you absolutely do not have to. By the way, your vets look badass. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 25, 2011, 10:12:27 PM
I probably should have bought Valhallans, as they have flamer and melta models, and had a Russian "counts as " Al Rahem.

I need Tallarn flamers though, so have to chop them up.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 25, 2011, 10:13:25 PM
Yes, let the Tallarns keep their overheating point sink guns!


Quote
I reckon 2 plasma shots and 2 flamer bursts, as well as 20 guardsmen and a commisar, and 3 power weapons, should be able to do some damage.

Where are my psychotroke grenades! Make them fight amongst themselves.

If they are an assault unit, don't you want assault weapons so you can assault after shooting? Like meltaguns instead of plasma...



Quote from: Crimsonsphinx
When you play as GKs you can kill marines etc much easier due to all your knights having power weapons.

Good point!

Also psyker squads with AP1 large templates, assuming they pass their psychic test and then manage to hit (do you really use the scatter dice for blast weapons in 40K? Really?).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 25, 2011, 11:15:01 PM
pistols you can shoot and then assault, and the squads will have flamers.

toasty.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 26, 2011, 10:06:47 AM
Here's some pictures of the apoc game that I mentioned.
It was awesome.

http://aphael.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/apocalypse-game-24071001/ (http://aphael.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/apocalypse-game-24071001/)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 26, 2011, 10:12:12 AM
Nice pictures!

The table looks a bit crowded though. No room for all those tanks to move about!


Maybe the orbital barrage from the grey knights army book would actually hit something in that game.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 26, 2011, 10:32:44 AM
Well they were the defenders and thus had less room to deploy on, but it worked out for them. The Baneblade doesnt have to move anyway...

There was lots of orbital bombardments and bombs flying all of the place. The coolest was my buddy, using a formation that gave him the "On my coordinates" asset which brings down an orbital bombardment on a guy with a vox :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 26, 2011, 10:43:41 AM
using a formation that gave him the "On my coordinates" asset which brings down an orbital bombardment on a guy with a vox :P

Harsh. Poor radio guy.


On another matter: why can't inquisitors get any kind of invulnerable save? They have access to all this amazing wargear, but they can't have so much as a refractor field (every guard commander has one of those!). They can even buy storm shields for their henchmen, but not for themselves!

Fluff/rules failure.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 26, 2011, 12:02:28 PM
Their faith is all the armour they need...the space marine armour is just for the looks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 26, 2011, 12:41:23 PM
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000520.jpg)
"Gentlemen, intel says there's a smiling blue globe behind us, lets investigate."

Quote
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000521.jpg)
"Yep, there sure is."

"Its not moving."

"Yep, seems harmless, lets get back to searching for the enemy."

"Its getting hot, so think I'll take off some of this silly armor first."

Quote
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000518.jpg)
"Wait, where'd Fred go?"

Quote
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000519.jpg)
"He's just gone!"

"You don't suppose that smiling blue globe had something to do with?"
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 26, 2011, 01:02:30 PM
You should make webcomics ....with finlays pictures.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 26, 2011, 04:24:46 PM
That reminds me of the story of the lictor stalking guardsmen in the 2nd ed 'nid codex GamesPoet.

Im suprised Finlay has time to do all this painting on Paternity leave!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 26, 2011, 04:37:21 PM
why? when he's feeding or asleep I can't do anything for him. He's been pretty good so far. *touch wood*

Anyway, I'm back at work now, so my painting output will drop dramatically :(
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 26, 2011, 04:47:33 PM
I dont know Finlay, I was just guessing based on my friends experience with his child.  I have no personal experience!   :-D

This same friends painting output improves when hes at work.  He takes his models to work with him, and paints them.  He doesn't even work at a GW, hes a traffic warden!

My painting has hit a halt.  I was away last weekend at a concert, and this weekend, I am working.  Yay for me!  Hopefully after this weekend has been and gone, I will get my motivation back, but I go through periods of hating painting, and then liking it again.  Ill just wait till I am interested again   :-)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 26, 2011, 06:01:47 PM
Nah, when the babies first come home they tend to sleep alot.  But it gets worse as they get older. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 26, 2011, 06:04:48 PM
You should make webcomics ....with finlays pictures.
Think it'll make enough money for postage to Germany? :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 26, 2011, 06:39:53 PM
I dont know Finlay, I was just guessing based on my friends experience with his child.  I have no personal experience!   :-D

This same friends painting output improves when hes at work.  He takes his models to work with him, and paints them.  He doesn't even work at a GW, hes a traffic warden!

My painting has hit a halt.  I was away last weekend at a concert, and this weekend, I am working.  Yay for me!  Hopefully after this weekend has been and gone, I will get my motivation back, but I go through periods of hating painting, and then liking it again.  Ill just wait till I am interested again   :-)
We've been lucky so far.

My painting definitely comes in big spurts. I did nothing from november then before the euro bash I painted a 2500 point Orc army.
Then after I got back form the bash I've done nothing until I started the IG again.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 26, 2011, 08:58:04 PM
I am the same Finlay.  I either churn out huge amounts of models in a short period of time, or I do nothing.  I very rarely do odd bits.

For example, in a single week, I painted up 30 guardsmen, by doing 10 men over two days, and repeating it three times.  This took me more or less a whole weeks leave from work, time well spent IMO   :-D

I also tend to paint more if I am using the model.  The more I use a certain model, the more I am likely to paint it, as I hate having unpainted models on the table.  Thing is, like with my guard, I have a fully painted army in most games I play, but I still have a large amount of models waiting to be done, but as I am not using them, they havn't been touched.  Just need to get the motivation back I guess.

In 8 or so years you will have grown your own gaming group!  Lucky you!  :)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Cannonofdoom on July 27, 2011, 06:58:33 AM
*touch wood*

Filthy boy!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on July 27, 2011, 08:40:51 AM
The most common Tallarn sergeant has the Plasma Pistol out front in a shooting position, and one of the Valhallan sergeants has a smaller flamer in a similar position - it's a simple cut off at the wrist swap.

Some of the Tallarns also have a failry easy lasgun position to cut the end off and add a flamer / burner bit - the catachan plastic flamers are probably easier to 'add'.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 27, 2011, 01:29:12 PM
What's the best armament for chimeras?

My two have multi-lasers and hull heavy bolters. I think heavy bolters are a bit useless (S5, weak), so I might install hull heavy flamers instead. Good idea?

Also, are any of the vehicle upgrades worth bothering with? Or are they all a waste of points?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on July 27, 2011, 01:38:49 PM
from reading the IG message board, multi laser and heavy flamer is the way to go, and the upgrades are a waste of points.

I have snapped out my heavy bolters, was going to stick a flamer in there too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on July 27, 2011, 01:43:53 PM
You should make webcomics ....with finlays pictures.
Think it'll make enough money for postage to Germany? :icon_lol:

http://ircalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?country=10137&m=6&p=3&o=0 (http://ircalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?country=10137&m=6&p=3&o=0)

Well depends...I hope that the package weights 3 pounds but I guess 3 pounds of miniatures would be quiet a lot

30 $ still seems very much to me.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 27, 2011, 01:51:36 PM
Quote
from reading the IG message board, multi laser and heavy flamer is the way to go, and the upgrades are a waste of points.

Good! I'll do that then. I have a couple of spare flamer bits I can use.

I think I'll get rid of the tank commanders sticking out of the turrets too, because they look silly. Also one chimera has a buldozer blade on the front, but I'm going to leave it on there and not buy the upgrade.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on July 27, 2011, 01:57:12 PM
Bull dozer blades are cool and they can be fluffy.

Problem is when the tank gets taken out before you get to use the blade.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 27, 2011, 05:36:09 PM
I think I'll get rid of the tank commanders sticking out of the turrets too, because they look silly.

Heretical talk, this!

(http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/474-drive-me-closer-i-want-to-hit-them-with-my-sword.jpg)

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrCY7dgaqs
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 27, 2011, 06:09:40 PM
But they don't have swords.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 27, 2011, 06:38:31 PM
Just glue a sword arm to them, stoopid!  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on July 27, 2011, 08:01:24 PM
I gave my baneblade commander a sword. Just for the cool factor... and it worked :p
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on July 27, 2011, 08:52:10 PM
See, that is what I have been trying to say for all these years to you numbercrunching competitor! Coolness beats all statistics hands down because the Emperor is with you!  :engel:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on July 27, 2011, 09:33:40 PM
The best part was the guy in the video had a Powefist. Not a sword.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 29, 2011, 10:42:40 AM
Hull heavy flamers are better on chimeras that advance, heavy bolters better on those which act as pillboxes.  I have some of each for that reason.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 30, 2011, 11:40:54 AM
I've changed one chimera's bolter for a flamer, but I'm going to leave the other one as it is I think.


Should I convert three of my ten Cadian meltagunners into plasmagunners?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 30, 2011, 04:00:38 PM
That depends how many you have of each type already rufus.

If you have to choose between melta and plasma, pick melta.  If you have a squad with melta, then doing some up as plasma would be a good idea as well.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on July 31, 2011, 10:20:07 AM
Well, I have enough melta guns to arm three squads with three each, even if I turn three into plasma guns. I'm just not sure if I actually want to have plasma guns.

I need to play a game to find out!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on July 31, 2011, 11:27:01 AM
Of all the special weapons, I love plasma the best.  There is nothing as satisfying as a plasma rapid fire unit wiping out a unit of terminators. 

You could just proxy them for a game rufus, then you will know if you like them or not.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on August 01, 2011, 02:10:46 PM
This has quite a few indepth looks at the different 40k codex books.  I really enjoy the site, and they talk a lot of sense.

I have to disagree with this.  Unless you like WAAC gaming, that's not a good place to go to.  Some of the points that they make are reasonable enough, but the very negative and disparaging attitude towards anyone who doesn't follow their way of the playing the game really lets that site down a lot in my opinion.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 01, 2011, 02:35:49 PM
Depends what you want from a site Irisado.  I was only talking about the codex reviews, as they go in a lot of depth on each of the different entries.  Sure they are looking at it from a competitive angle, but it is nothing like as bad as some of the other 40k sites out there.

I quite like to have the units broken down into the maths, as it allows me to make an educated decision.  Just because something is rated as poor by a website doesn't always make it so, but I appreciate having hard maths to look at.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 01, 2011, 05:51:55 PM
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000528.jpg)

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000529.jpg)

Oh noes, my arm is broken!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000530.jpg)

Never mind sir, we just amputated it. Here, have some medals and a plasma pistol.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000531.jpg)

Whole squad (minus heavy weapon)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000533.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on August 01, 2011, 05:58:49 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on August 01, 2011, 06:08:38 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 01, 2011, 06:23:25 PM
Looks good!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on August 01, 2011, 07:29:43 PM
But those deserve to be proberly illuminated when you take pics! Try to get some diffuse (indirect) light on them. You can achieve this with a lamp shining at some kind of white surface you use to deflect the light on the figures. Sunlight can work as well.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 01, 2011, 07:39:28 PM
Loving the paintjob and conversions Finlay.

Looking at your photos, I never notice until now just how oversized the plasma pistol is!  Its absolutely gigantic!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 01, 2011, 07:47:31 PM
But those deserve to be proberly illuminated when you take pics! Try to get some diffuse (indirect) light on them. You can achieve this with a lamp shining at some kind of white surface you use to deflect the light on the figures. Sunlight can work as well.
1. It is SOO overcast here at the moment. And I always find using lamps sort of washes them out too much?
2. My son was not being co-operative! (and mum was trying to nap) and I was impatient to put some pics up.

I'm painting Chimera's now. Scary! I feel like I should just get grey and green spray, but too cheap to buy them.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on August 01, 2011, 07:56:31 PM
If you point the lamp directly at them it washes them out, but if you point the light not at them, but a white surface, you will get soft diffuse light on them (provided you position the surface right of course).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 01, 2011, 08:13:47 PM
Where'd the slinged arm and the mechanical arm come from?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on August 01, 2011, 08:17:26 PM
IG Cadian command squad.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Irisado on August 01, 2011, 08:19:28 PM
Depends what you want from a site Irisado.  I was only talking about the codex reviews, as they go in a lot of depth on each of the different entries.  Sure they are looking at it from a competitive angle, but it is nothing like as bad as some of the other 40k sites out there.

I don't even agree with that I'm afraid, as it very much depends on who has written the codex review.  I'm not tarnishing everyone there with the same brush, but there are some article writers/reviewers there who write very poorly in my opinion, and have a very narrow minded approach to the game and individual codices.

Quote
I quite like to have the units broken down into the maths, as it allows me to make an educated decision.  Just because something is rated as poor by a website doesn't always make it so, but I appreciate having hard maths to look at.

Good quality posters on 40K forums can do that for you, as well as relate it to actual experience  :icon_smile:.

Edited for grammar.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 01, 2011, 09:27:40 PM
a girl posted some (badly) painted tanks on the Ig forum, and got more replies to my reasonably painted guys and my army list thread in one day than I have in 2 weeks.

Maybe I should make a user called "finlina" or something?

IG Cadian command squad.
Not quite
Although there is an arm like that on the Cadian command sprue, It's actually metal. I got it in SL's bitz bag he sent to me.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 01, 2011, 10:55:03 PM
Hey, you're married, have a child, and you're a guy.  What guy's going to want to chase you? Probably none of those posters are ladies either, even if you were free for chasin' by them. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on August 02, 2011, 01:21:44 PM
I finally got to read the first part of the Sisters of Battle Codex in WD. I still cannot grasp what makes commentators on other sites go whining and complaining or what makes the Sisters so nerfed now. I have laid my grubby hands on an old model of arch-confessor Kyrinov that will serve as confessor or preacher as I see fit.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 02, 2011, 04:19:40 PM
Depends what you want from a site Irisado.  I was only talking about the codex reviews, as they go in a lot of depth on each of the different entries.  Sure they are looking at it from a competitive angle, but it is nothing like as bad as some of the other 40k sites out there.

I don't even agree with that I'm afraid, as it very much depends on who has written the codex review.  I'm not tarnishing everyone there with the same brush, but there are some article writers/reviewers there who write very poorly in my opinion, and have a very narrow minded approach to the game and individual codices.

Quote
I quite like to have the units broken down into the maths, as it allows me to make an educated decision.  Just because something is rated as poor by a website doesn't always make it so, but I appreciate having hard maths to look at.

Good quality posters on 40K forums can do that for you, as well as relate it to actual experience  :icon_smile:.

Edited for grammar.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree  :-D 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 02, 2011, 07:57:33 PM
I finally got to read the first part of the Sisters of Battle Codex in WD. I still cannot grasp what makes commentators on other sites go whining and complaining or what makes the Sisters so nerfed now. I have laid my grubby hands on an old model of arch-confessor Kyrinov that will serve as confessor or preacher as I see fit.
I havent read other forums and their whining, but the sisters got a bit nerfed on their faith abilities in the way that they have different ones for each unit and that they lost the one that changes the armour into invul save together with the one that ignores armour?

Anyway, that is nerfed, but they probably have gotten cheaper.
Im just hoping for some kind of plastics, but it seems like the coming months will be fantasy oriented.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on August 03, 2011, 11:09:35 PM
Yeah they lost the invuln save and armour ignoring ones. However we don't have the wargear lists yet, so there could be something in there, and obviously the prices. I wasn't a big fan of fighting against the Sisters in their current incarnation anyway. Since faith was unstoppable, outplaying them meant nothing if they could just invuln out of a bad situation with impunity, it felt like it was up to them whether or not you won, rather than your own playing, if you get me.

Some of the new powers look good, Dominions look good, and Repentia just got a second base attack - nasty! Their faith allows them to strike even if they die too. They're going to make a mess...
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 04, 2011, 10:42:09 AM
I agree with Sig.

In their previous incarnation, if they could keep casting their invulnerable save faith when it was needed, you were really at the mercy of their dice rolls regardless of how well you played.

At least with the new system they have specific faith to each unit.  Obviously until I play them, I wont know for sure if this new system is better, but so far it is looking reasonable.

I am expecting them to be a bit cheaper on points than the last edition too.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 04, 2011, 10:46:51 AM
Well, isnt that the same with assault termies with their storm shields? You rely on bad rolls?
This is just the sisters' assault termies.

But well, I havent played them, so i dont know much.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 04, 2011, 10:51:08 AM
Nice veterans, Finlay.


you were really at the mercy of their dice rolls regardless of how well you played.

Surely that's true in any dice game!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 04, 2011, 11:30:42 AM
There are a few differences with terminators with storm shields and the old sisters of battle.  For a start, all their sisters of battle units could theoretically pass the test needed to get a 3++.  With terminators, you already know what they have, and they cost a massive amount of points, and have no ranged weapons.

While it is true in any game you are at the mercy of the dice Rufus, sisters had the chance with a dice roll of giving any unit all kinds of wondrous abilities, making a mockery of your tactical planning, as suddenly their heavy weapons troopers could gain power weapons or invulnerable saves, something you can't really plan for.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 04, 2011, 12:14:49 PM
Oh, I see. Fair point then!


I wonder if I should use that plasma syphon gadget to protect my grey knights from nasty plasmagunners.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 04, 2011, 12:29:30 PM
I would say the plasma syphon is one of the best items you can lay your hands on in ANY  codex.  Plasma being the best way to remove terminators [so it depends if you use a lot of GK terminators really]   Having just had a quick look at the codex, I cant see who can actually take this item?  Its not on any GK HQ choices.

That said, people will just start use melta weapons instead if you play the same gaming group all the time,  which are also good for killing tanks/dreadnaughts/knights so its swings and roundabouts really. 
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 04, 2011, 12:32:46 PM
The xenos inquisitor is the only one who can take them. I havent tried it yet. It seems too situational.


On the faith topic. You know this when playing the sisters that they will probably do their mean tricks and get the invulsave in situations where they cant use their armour save. So you know that they will probably always have a 3+ save.
Which is nice, no doubt, but they are still T3 Ws3... So it isnt impossible to kill them..
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 04, 2011, 12:38:21 PM
The Xenos inquisitor is the only one who can have it (because it was made by aliens). And since he can't get terminator armor himself (or a ward save, damnit!), it's a bit awkward to use. But he's the best inquisitor anyway, since he can also use rad grenades.

It's good for upsetting Tau though, since even their basic guns count as plasma weapons according to the FAQ!


I don't have any terminators yet (well, I have one). I am planning to get one unit only.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 04, 2011, 01:21:27 PM
Tau are IMO a fairly weak army in  5th edition anyway, with expensive transports, and a general lack of combat troops, and a whole 1 power weapon in the whole codex.

What I am saying is that you shouldn't need a plasma syphon vs them :)

It seems to me from a fluff perspective, that the GK codex is all wrong.  We should be seeing lots more terminators in lists that we do.  Mostly people use henchmen [and rightly so, they are an amazing unit choice].

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 04, 2011, 01:50:14 PM
Hmm the trend here in Århus, Denmark isn't really henchmen. People play with terminators, paladins, purifiers and normal strike squads :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 04, 2011, 03:04:51 PM
I like the terminator models, I just haven't had any success buying any from ebay! So I have purifiers instead (was going to use strike squads, but they are much weaker than purifiers and hardly any cheaper).

But I'm not really sure what the point of terminators is.


Poor old Tau. They have some nice looking models too. Their transports look like spaceships, which I like.


Quote
It seems to me from a fluff perspective, that the GK codex is all wrong.

Probably!

I was disappointed that you couldn't still have imperial guard allies.


And it makes no sense at all that inquisitors can't get ward saves. The fluff makes a big deal about how they can get anything they want, including all kinds of rare and expensive equipment... just not a cheapo refractor field. Or one of the storm shields that their henchmen can have!

I know I've said that before. But it annoys me!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 04, 2011, 03:12:01 PM
Poor old Tau. They have some nice looking models too. Their transports look like spaceships, which I like.
I held off on doing my first 40K army as Tau, did Orks instead.  Picked up a handfull of markerlight guys from someone who was selling off his Tau, and a forum member here sent me some Tau stuff he even cast (I'm spacing his username currently).  Its probably just a matter of time before I start an army of these.  Maybe when they redo their codex.  I agree, the space ships are cool.

Quote
Quote
It seems to me from a fluff perspective, that the GK codex is all wrong.
Probably!

I was disappointed that you couldn't still have imperial guard allies.

And it makes no sense at all that inquisitors can't get ward saves. The fluff makes a big deal about how they can get anything they want, including all kinds of rare and expensive equipment... just not a cheapo refractor field. Or one of the storm shields that their henchmen can have!

I know I've said that before. But it annoys me!
Yep, but if they screwed up in writing the fluff they ought to be ... wait, maybe someone should have just rewrote it before it was released.

Imagine that!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 04, 2011, 03:34:00 PM
Some of the henchmen are imperial guard though aren't they?  The ones who have a million options.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Aldaris on August 04, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
Not neccessarily - they're warrior henchmen. Those can be anything from IG inducted by the Inquisitor to do his heavy lifting to a collection of hive-scum hired by the Inquisitor, or a bunch of noblemen out for glory, or anything really.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Mathi Alfblut on August 04, 2011, 09:45:34 PM
Now, since the Grey Knights turned from focusing on Chaos and mostly daemons to become the regular cleaner boys of the whole Inquisition, it seems the Deathwatch is buried. The Ordo Xenos got shinnier Chamber Militants to play with.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on August 04, 2011, 10:03:04 PM
Sternguard make for good deathwatch standins. If I do a second squad for my novamarines, I'll do deathwatch for sure, especially since it ties in with the fluff (novamarines are more xenophobic than even normal marines).
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 05, 2011, 07:25:17 PM
badly painted chimera!

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000547.jpg)

I hate painting tanks.
It looks alright IRL though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 05, 2011, 07:35:52 PM
Maybe it needs a good coat of black wash?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 05, 2011, 07:53:43 PM
It's had one. Thats what the smudginess on the turret is.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 05, 2011, 10:29:21 PM
badly painted chimera!

It looks good. I like it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 05, 2011, 11:07:09 PM
The camo pattern does give the impression of camo, and messes with my eyes, and in a good camo way, better than some others I've seen.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 06, 2011, 08:02:18 AM
Maybe you should try and put thin black lines where the green and grey meet?

And try to highlight the tank? :)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 06, 2011, 11:49:28 AM
I'm not going to blackline it. Guess I will highlight it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on August 06, 2011, 12:41:21 PM
Three wrongs - gren color looks pastel, the color combo is wrong, and there is a distinct lack of color separation.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 06, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
Dark angels green and codex grey- what's wrong with that?

and the combo works on my infantry?

I hate painting tanks! Maybe I should just make them grey and highlighted.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on August 06, 2011, 01:31:42 PM
Dark angels green and codex grey- what's wrong with that?

Pastel with muted grey is what is "wrong".

Works ok with smaller models but it looks odd here.

I agree, tank painting sucks.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 06, 2011, 01:40:12 PM
So I need darker grey or green?
Or lighter grey or green?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on August 06, 2011, 02:12:57 PM
You make the mistake of thinking green is either light or dark.

You also have strong and weak pigments.

For instance Catachan Green is dark but never in the same powerful green as say Dark Angels Green.

But if you want easier painted tanks - just make them one colored like the Vostroyan tanks.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 06, 2011, 02:51:39 PM
I've edged the green with Knarloc green, and higlighted the edges too, think it looks better.
Also, it looked better IRL than the picture, so I am reasonably pleased with it as it stands.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Shadowlord on August 06, 2011, 03:27:16 PM
Also, it looked better IRL than the picture, so I am reasonably pleased with it as it stands.

This will sound boring...

That is all that matters!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on August 06, 2011, 05:17:28 PM
Anyone got any suggestions for a source for some 40mm round bases.

I want some for my mounted Wild West models - I've raided our 40K boxes but haven't got enough.

Apart from Ogryns, what use is there for 40mm bases in 40k ...............

We have Imperial Guard, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, and a few Space Marines


I need around 30 - 40 I think.

I've googled and found lots of decorated or resin ones, I just want plain plastic.




Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 06, 2011, 05:35:14 PM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40mm-Round-bases-Unslotted-GW-Warhammer-type-/380324300805?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item588d184805#ht_944wt_905
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Midaski on August 06, 2011, 05:46:14 PM
Thanks - that's not bad incl the postage = 19p each
I saw some mdf ones of his for 27.5p each.

However I have now found 50 for Ģ5.74 incl the postage = 11.5p each

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/TheTrollTrader?_trksid=p4340.l2563

and actually made him an offer of Ģ3.25 rather than the Ģ3.99, + postage

We'll see ................
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 06, 2011, 05:55:28 PM
I find ebay really good for bases.

People must cast them themselves.

Also, it looked better IRL than the picture, so I am reasonably pleased with it as it stands.

This will sound boring...

That is all that matters!

 :::cheers:::
decent table top standard, and looking good all on the table together = makes a huge difference.

Even badly painted, but fully painted, army will look decent on the table top from a short distance!
Just don't pick up any of my models for a closer look  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 07, 2011, 04:13:37 AM
Are we going to see a picture of the updated version?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 07, 2011, 11:51:36 AM
Are we going to see a picture of the updated version?
Word :P
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 10, 2011, 07:44:20 PM
moar tallarns.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000571.jpg)

extra chimera,
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000574.jpg)

 re-touched chimera.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000575.jpg)


I think I have abandoned my plans for Al Rahem, going to use 2 sentinels, a hellhound, and possibly some rough riders as my more mobile element.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on August 10, 2011, 07:47:18 PM
The greens look way better on the chimera now. Looks good!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on August 10, 2011, 09:47:08 PM
I really like the Tallarns, they remind me of Tuareg...if you have the patience perhaps try a unit with black and blue only.

http://www.modelkits.com.ua/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/3230319be19f8e0ae31a62b553c9a95e.jpg (http://www.modelkits.com.ua/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/3230319be19f8e0ae31a62b553c9a95e.jpg)
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 10, 2011, 10:20:33 PM
CCS, 2 flamers 60 pts

Platoon Command squad, Autocannon, 2 GLs, 50 pts
Infantry squad, Autocannon, GL x 3 195 pts
Infantry squad with flamer x 2, 110 pts

Veteran squad, chimera with ML and HF, 3x plasma, plasma pistol. 180
Veteran squad, chimera with ML and HF, 3x melta, demolitions. 185

Scout sentinel, autocannon 40
Scout sentinel, autocannon 40
Hellhound, multi melta, smokers, 150 pts

LRBT, lascannon, HB sponsons. 185 pts
LRD, lascannon. 180 pts
Basilisk,  125 pts
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 10, 2011, 10:35:08 PM
That's a 1500 point list? 80 guys and vehicle-tastic too. I'm scared.

I like the chimeras and Tallarns. In fact I think the chimeras look better than mine.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 10, 2011, 10:41:17 PM
yep! remember my entire list will get eaten in combat.

I can't decide on my list at all though.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 10, 2011, 10:48:52 PM
Neither can I. I might go for this:


   inquisitor coteaz                     100
                                                
   vindicare assassin                     145
                                                
                        
10   purifier squad      master-crafted hammer               280
         5 halberds               
         2 incinerators               
         psybolts                                       
                        
   rhino      hunter missile               50
                        
10   strike squad      master-crafted hammer               270
         3 halberds               
         2 psycannons               
         psybolts                                       
                        
   rhino                     40
                        
11   henchmen squad      5 deathcult assassin               160
         5 crusaders               
         1 psyker               
                        
   chimera      multilaser, heavy flamer               55
                        
12   henchmen squad      3 meltaguns/laspistols               145
         6 hotshot lasguns/laspistols               
         1 laspistol/chainsword               
         1 psyker               
         1 jokaero               
                        
   chimera      multilaser, heavy bolter               55
                        
12   henchmen squad      3 meltaguns/laspistols               145
         6 hotshot lasguns/laspistols               
         1 laspistol/chainsword               
         1 psyker               
         1 jokaero               
                        
chimera      multilaser, heavy bolter               55
                        
                                             total = 1500


But it might be really rubbish. At least everyone gets to ride in a car, other than the assassin.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 11, 2011, 09:57:49 AM
You need more long range shooting. At least here, every marine army has at least 5 missile launchers (15 if you encounter space wolves). Your environment might not be anything like that of course :)

The cars look good Finlay! I like the lighter green colour, it blends nicely!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: GamesPoet on August 11, 2011, 10:25:16 AM
Their "environment" appears to be Rufus and Finlay, two peas in a pod so to speak.  I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 11, 2011, 11:16:42 AM
You need more long range shooting

Finlay does or I do?

Because there is no long range shooting in the grey knights book, except for dreadnoughts!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on August 11, 2011, 01:54:05 PM
You need a 2x TL auto dread! It's ridiculous in the normal codex, which is how I use it, and in the Grey Knight codex it's str 8! And does other stuff! Cheat-tastic, to borrow your own phrase.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 11, 2011, 02:23:11 PM
How did you make your autocannon dreadnought?

I'm thinking the best solution is that quad autocannon that comes in the defense line set with the walls:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440312a&prodId=prod20006a

But I'm not sure it will actually look OK.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Sig on August 11, 2011, 03:05:17 PM
Yeah, that's how I did it. I was lazy, I just hacked off the tube that connects the two halves of the gun together and stuck one on each side of the dread. It looks OK, but you won't win any awards for it. I don't have a picture sorry, but it does look passable, at least to me, I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 11, 2011, 03:22:08 PM
Great, I will probably try that then!

I need to find 135 points though. I expect the orangutans will have to go.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Finlay on August 11, 2011, 03:25:52 PM
4 strength 8 shots, hitting on 3s, rerolling.

Bye Bye chimeras.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: MrDWhitey on August 11, 2011, 03:27:03 PM
Should just give it a big banner saying "FETH DARK ELDAR".
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 11, 2011, 03:46:51 PM
Psychic robot with psychic guns.

Damn, now I'm 15 points over!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 11, 2011, 05:11:15 PM
The dreads are also awesome at defending you from psychic attack. The normal GK aegis is shit, because everyone has ld10 on their psykers. But the reinforced aegis from the dreads are really really good.
It will protect you from anything.

I went up against tyranids where 2 zoan thropes became useless with their ld6 for psychic test :D
So position the dreadnoughts wisely.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 12, 2011, 09:42:19 AM
I suppose you'd want a multimelta (or psycannon) dreadnought to defend against psychic attack, because the autocannon one is going to be at the back somewhere.

But I don't think I want a dreadnought at the moment, because my army will look silly if it consists of five transports full of infantry and then one random robot running along next to them.


I'm annoyed that rhinos only hold ten guys. That means you can never put a character with a full space marine squad, and using less than ten marines in a squad is clearly wrong.

So Cortez has to join a henchmen squad... but he needs to be in a squad that can fight and shoot. I wish I didn't have to use him at all!


Orangutan question: you know that familiar that looks like a small hairy animal?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440120a&prodId=prod860002a

Possible Jokaero? Or would that be silly?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on August 12, 2011, 09:49:06 AM
Isnīt using the Jokaero silly automatically?
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 12, 2011, 10:03:57 AM
Most things in 40K are silly!

For example, look at any space marine special character model and try not to laugh.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on August 12, 2011, 10:08:46 AM
I think Straken looks ok...as does Sly Marbo...but with him you have to laugh about the name.

Eldar are all funny.


hmm space marines too even though Ulrik is okish.

The Tau guys look like all the other Tau guys.

Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 12, 2011, 10:16:31 AM
The most ridiculous models in 40K, largely due to the colour scheme:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440317a&prodId=prod1060070&rootCatGameStyle=

Fat Superman X 4.


Runner-up: any model in terminator armour but not wearing a helmet. Your head is so small!
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: McKnight on August 12, 2011, 10:24:32 AM
Yes, I see your problem with Corteaz, Rufus. He is excellent with death cult assasins because he has hammerhand, but then you wouldnt be able to use his special rule.

I would choose each game depending on your opponent and wether he puts anything in reserve - if not then put him in the DCA unit.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: Crimsonsphinx on August 12, 2011, 10:49:51 AM
I really like that Marine lord with the power fist holding the helmet.  That is probably my favourite space marine model they do!  Generally I think all marines should wear helmets though, its retarded wearing nigh impenetrable armour then not wearing your helmet.

In Deathwatch you get extra renown for doing a mission without your helmet, and a number of small in game benefits, but if you get shot in the head, you have no armour...so yeah.
Title: Re: 40K
Post by: rufus sparkfire on August 12, 2011, 11:58:46 AM
Yes, I see your problem with Corteaz, Rufus. He is excellent with death cult assasins because he has hammerhand, but then you wouldnt be able to use his special rule.

I would choose each game depending on your opponent and wether he puts anything in reserve - if n