Warhammer-Empire.com
The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => Other Fantasy Games ... => Topic started by: daNNux on November 09, 2015, 06:22:09 PM
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Since the dawn of WH i have always wanted to play a pike and shotte armylist.
Is it possible in 9th ed? And If so how would i look like? (characters, units, itemcombos and so on)
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9th age as in the ETC rules?
Why not use a dedicated pike and shotte ruleset nowdays?
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I'd say spearsmen as pikes, handgunners for shot. Whatever else is added to that begins to turn it into more of a Warhammer Fantasy Battle army, which is what fantasy stuff is all about anyway. If I want to play a true pike and shot game, then I'd do something with historicals, like my Italian War figures or my Thirty Years War figures, and perhaps some day English Civil War figures, Empress miniatures makes a fine looking line that I've been resisting because I got too many other projects in motion.
But I digress. As for the various names of rules, I'm beginning to get confused over what is what! :icon_lol:
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9th ed = ETC
I know the part about spearmen/handgunners ofc. What i wonder is if it is a decent tactic in WHFB.
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People were hoping for pikes in 9th but they were left out. Many speculate that it's for a future dogs of war revision.
Spears and handguns look okay in 9th, though with the artillery nerfed you may need to consider a "hammer" unit to add some punch. Only experience and army list experimenting will get you any satisfying anwsers.
Welcome to the forum by the way. :smile2:
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ETC means?
I had no idea that GW had actually called anything "9th Edition", and so I am a bit perplexed.
My apology for my ignorance.
And welcome to W-E! :::cheers:::
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9th ed = ETC
I thought ETC and 9th Age were different. Now I'm confused. How do we call these different versions?
I know the part about spearmen/handgunners ofc. What i wonder is if it is a decent tactic in WHFB.
Normally, you take perhaps one horde with supporting detachments, in this case a Spearmen horde with two Handgunner detachments. This ties up 400-600 points, depending on how you support them with characters. It's no more than a quarter of the now normal 2,400 pts, and should work about.
Now the big question is, do you want to take another similar parent/detachment combo and go heavy with Pistoliers and cannons, in order to actually make your army look like a Pike & Shotte army? That might take 2/3rds of your army points, and might be a challenging combo to play against the more fantastic armies.
How would you support it? Would you go heavy with characters, wizardy and magic wagons, would you allow yourself a STank or Demigryphs? Where do you draw the line with pike & shotte on one hand, and Warhammer Fantasy on the other hand? Is looks and feeling more important than game efficiency?
How would you deploy it? Two Spearmen hordes with detachments and supporting guns and cavalry have a big footprint and wide frontage. They're not terribly effective without buffs from magic, magic items and characters. More than that, they're not very mobile. They don't bring to the table anything unexpected. It's a decent tactic for WHFB Dwarfs. Empire, I think, is more of a combined weapon army, and a lot more mobile. Pike & Shotte style line tactic with shooting might not play to its strengths.
I only have experience of this kind of infantry&shooting-heavy lists from the 6th to 8th editions. I love them, mostly because of their looks on the battlefield. But more often than not, they were clumsy and caused considerable problems for me. Terrain hampered their deployment and movement, they could be outmaneuvered, they didn't deliver much in ranged combat, and didn't shine in close combat against heavier and bigger opponents. I often lost.
I don't know how much the various post-8th ed fan projects change the playability of such lists. Even if both Spearmen and Handgunners are made cheaper, I'm afraid they're not keen on making such lists a competitive choice. Warhammer battlefields are not 16th-17th century European battlefields, so 16th-17th century European troop choices and tactics are a bit odd choice.
Kings of War offers a fantasy battle game iteration where pike & shotte tactics are considerably more balanced. It allows pikes in at least two human armies. If you like pike & shotte but want the fantasy, I think KoW would be a good choice.
-Z
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Perhaps technically there is no such thing as a 9th edition from GW, unless we count W:AoS as 9th, yet suspect there are some that would disagree with that.
And by the way, when I went googling "ETC Warhammer", I got the "European Team Championship", and don't have a clue as to how that relates to a "9th" edition.
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I've never seen anything about GW counting AoS as 9th. It is a whole different ball of wax that uses some of the old models and that's about it.
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Very true.
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ETC (European Team Championship) are making their own version of warhammer called the 9th age. The is a 9th age thread in the Electors forum.
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Ah! Well I guess that does match with the thread title. My confusion is beginning to clear. :icon_lol:
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Pike&shotte is a very good bij game and the empire is easily converted to this system. Pike&shotte as in warlordgames. .... just leave youre wizards and griffons at home.
9th age is unknown to me as in I never read one word of it. calling it pike&shotte probably will cause confusion I guess.
Cheers,
Henerius